Guest guest Posted December 2, 2004 Report Share Posted December 2, 2004 Someone I know said this site goes too far as it says Freegans are better than Vegans. What is your opinion in this regard ? http://freegan.info Thanks. Vijay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 2, 2004 Report Share Posted December 2, 2004 someone still has to make, create, kill, the stuff freegans use don't they? if you dumpster dive a package of mcdonalds hamburgers, and think yer doing great..the animal still had to die somewhere along the way, yes? yer not making any sort of stand against the cruelty you see around you, yer just real good at re-use and recycle... rvijay07 Dec 2, 2004 11:39 AM Site: Freegan.info Someone I know said this site goes too far as it says Freegans are better than Vegans. What is your opinion in this regard ?http://freegan.infoThanks.VijayTo send an email to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 3, 2004 Report Share Posted December 3, 2004 Better? Andrew Barnes Account Manager FDM Group Lanchester House - Trafalgar Place - Brighton - BN1 4FL Tel: +44 (0)870 060 3100 - Fax: +44 (0)870 060 3101 - Mob: +44 (0)7970 075 905 andrew.barnes www.fdmgroup.com rvijay07 [rvijay07] 02 December 2004 19:40 Site: Freegan.info Someone I know said this site goes too far as it says Freegans are better than Vegans. What is your opinion in this regard ? http://freegan.info Thanks. Vijay To send an email to - ______________________ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk ______________________ This message is confidential and is intended for the addressee only; unless clearly stated that this disclaimer should not apply, this e-mail is not intended to create legally binding commitments on behalf of FDM Group Plc, nor do its contents reflect the corporate views or policies of FDM. Any unauthorised disclosure, use or dissemination, either whole or partial, is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient of the message, please notify the sender immediately. ______________________ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk ______________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 4, 2004 Report Share Posted December 4, 2004 Fraggle, This is your first warning, too many "yer"`s in one sentance. DONT DO IT AGAIN! I know that you are American, but try and use the English language ( notice I refrained from using the phrase "the queens english"? ) Toodle Pip old boy, The Valley Vegan.......fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote: someone still has to make, create, kill, the stuff freegans use don't they? if you dumpster dive a package of mcdonalds hamburgers, and think yer doing great..the animal still had to die somewhere along the way, yes? yer not making any sort of stand against the cruelty you see around you, yer just real good at re-use and recycle... rvijay07 Dec 2, 2004 11:39 AM Site: Freegan.info Someone I know said this site goes too far as it says Freegans are better than Vegans. What is your opinion in this regard ?http://freegan.infoThanks.VijayTo send an email to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 4, 2004 Report Share Posted December 4, 2004 Hi Peter Yer know... I reckon if you're going to say things like that you should really put apostrophes in words like "don't" :-) BB Peter (aka grammar nazi :-)) - peter hurd Saturday, December 04, 2004 2:07 PM Re: Site: Freegan.info Fraggle, This is your first warning, too many "yer"`s in one sentance. DONT DO IT AGAIN! I know that you are American, but try and use the English language ( notice I refrained from using the phrase "the queens english"? ) Toodle Pip old boy, The Valley Vegan.......fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote: someone still has to make, create, kill, the stuff freegans use don't they? if you dumpster dive a package of mcdonalds hamburgers, and think yer doing great..the animal still had to die somewhere along the way, yes? yer not making any sort of stand against the cruelty you see around you, yer just real good at re-use and recycle... rvijay07 Dec 2, 2004 11:39 AM Site: Freegan.info Someone I know said this site goes too far as it says Freegans are better than Vegans. What is your opinion in this regard ?http://freegan.infoThanks.VijayTo send an email to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 4, 2004 Report Share Posted December 4, 2004 LOL - to be picky-picky - shouldn't it also be 'try to' not 'try and'?Jo - Peter Saturday, December 04, 2004 7:06 PM Re: Site: Freegan.info Hi Peter Yer know... I reckon if you're going to say things like that you should really put apostrophes in words like "don't" :-) BB Peter (aka grammar nazi :-)) - peter hurd Saturday, December 04, 2004 2:07 PM Re: Site: Freegan.info Fraggle, This is your first warning, too many "yer"`s in one sentance. DONT DO IT AGAIN! I know that you are American, but try and use the English language ( notice I refrained from using the phrase "the queens english"? ) Toodle Pip old boy, The Valley Vegan.......fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote: someone still has to make, create, kill, the stuff freegans use don't they? if you dumpster dive a package of mcdonalds hamburgers, and think yer doing great..the animal still had to die somewhere along the way, yes? yer not making any sort of stand against the cruelty you see around you, yer just real good at re-use and recycle... rvijay07 Dec 2, 2004 11:39 AM Site: Freegan.info Someone I know said this site goes too far as it says Freegans are better than Vegans. What is your opinion in this regard ?http://freegan.infoThanks.VijayTo send an email to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 4, 2004 Report Share Posted December 4, 2004 *raises eyebrow* i'm being skooled in language by the fellow whose native tongue is akin to cats howling... Cyrrrrnwwwwrrrrrrrr hee hee yer a funny guy peter *ducks and runs* peter hurd Dec 4, 2004 6:07 AM Re: Site: Freegan.info Fraggle, This is your first warning, too many "yer"`s in one sentance. DONT DO IT AGAIN! I know that you are American, but try and use the English language ( notice I refrained from using the phrase "the queens english"? ) Toodle Pip old boy, The Valley Vegan.......fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote: someone still has to make, create, kill, the stuff freegans use don't they? if you dumpster dive a package of mcdonalds hamburgers, and think yer doing great..the animal still had to die somewhere along the way, yes? yer not making any sort of stand against the cruelty you see around you, yer just real good at re-use and recycle... rvijay07 Dec 2, 2004 11:39 AM Site: Freegan.info Someone I know said this site goes too far as it says Freegans are better than Vegans. What is your opinion in this regard ?http://freegan.infoThanks.VijayTo send an email to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 4, 2004 Report Share Posted December 4, 2004 Yep - but I was trying not to be too mean - but since you mention it... there was also an apostrophe missing from "queens" (sorry Peter!) :-) BB Peter - Jo bb Saturday, December 04, 2004 8:48 PM Re: Site: Freegan.info LOL - to be picky-picky - shouldn't it also be 'try to' not 'try and'?Jo - Peter Saturday, December 04, 2004 7:06 PM Re: Site: Freegan.info Hi Peter Yer know... I reckon if you're going to say things like that you should really put apostrophes in words like "don't" :-) BB Peter (aka grammar nazi :-)) - peter hurd Saturday, December 04, 2004 2:07 PM Re: Site: Freegan.info Fraggle, This is your first warning, too many "yer"`s in one sentance. DONT DO IT AGAIN! I know that you are American, but try and use the English language ( notice I refrained from using the phrase "the queens english"? ) Toodle Pip old boy, The Valley Vegan.......fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote: someone still has to make, create, kill, the stuff freegans use don't they? if you dumpster dive a package of mcdonalds hamburgers, and think yer doing great..the animal still had to die somewhere along the way, yes? yer not making any sort of stand against the cruelty you see around you, yer just real good at re-use and recycle... rvijay07 Dec 2, 2004 11:39 AM Site: Freegan.info Someone I know said this site goes too far as it says Freegans are better than Vegans. What is your opinion in this regard ?http://freegan.infoThanks.VijayTo send an email to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 6, 2004 Report Share Posted December 6, 2004 hi only been vegan for about 6 weeks, dont mean to sound stupid but what is a freegan?Peter <metalscarab wrote: Yep - but I was trying not to be too mean - but since you mention it... there was also an apostrophe missing from "queens" (sorry Peter!) :-) BB Peter - Jo bb Saturday, December 04, 2004 8:48 PM Re: Site: Freegan.info LOL - to be picky-picky - shouldn't it also be 'try to' not 'try and'?Jo - Peter Saturday, December 04, 2004 7:06 PM Re: Site: Freegan.info Hi Peter Yer know... I reckon if you're going to say things like that you should really put apostrophes in words like "don't" :-) BB Peter (aka grammar nazi :-)) - peter hurd Saturday, December 04, 2004 2:07 PM Re: Site: Freegan.info Fraggle, This is your first warning, too many "yer"`s in one sentance. DONT DO IT AGAIN! I know that you are American, but try and use the English language ( notice I refrained from using the phrase "the queens english"? ) Toodle Pip old boy, The Valley Vegan.......fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote: someone still has to make, create, kill, the stuff freegans use don't they? if you dumpster dive a package of mcdonalds hamburgers, and think yer doing great..the animal still had to die somewhere along the way, yes? yer not making any sort of stand against the cruelty you see around you, yer just real good at re-use and recycle... rvijay07 Dec 2, 2004 11:39 AM Site: Freegan.info Someone I know said this site goes too far as it says Freegans are better than Vegans. What is your opinion in this regard ?http://freegan.infoThanks.VijayTo send an email to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 6, 2004 Report Share Posted December 6, 2004 Nothing to do with vegans from what I can make out Andrew Barnes Account Manager FDM Group Lanchester House - Trafalgar Place - Brighton - BN1 4FL Tel: +44 (0)870 060 3100 - Fax: +44 (0)870 060 3101 - Mob: +44 (0)7970 075 905 andrew.barnes www.fdmgroup.com victoria leggett [tipples78] 06 December 2004 18:43 Re: Site: Freegan.info hi only been vegan for about 6 weeks, dont mean to sound stupid but what is a freegan? Peter <metalscarab wrote: Yep - but I was trying not to be too mean - but since you mention it... there was also an apostrophe missing from " queens " (sorry Peter!) :-) BB Peter - Jo bb Saturday, December 04, 2004 8:48 PM Re: Site: Freegan.info LOL - to be picky-picky - shouldn't it also be 'try to' not 'try and'? Jo - Peter Saturday, December 04, 2004 7:06 PM Re: Site: Freegan.info Hi Peter Yer know... I reckon if you're going to say things like that you should really put apostrophes in words like " don't " :-) BB Peter (aka grammar nazi :-)) - peter hurd Saturday, December 04, 2004 2:07 PM Re: Site: Freegan.info Fraggle, This is your first warning, too many " yer " `s in one sentance. DONT DO IT AGAIN! I know that you are American, but try and use the English language ( notice I refrained from using the phrase " the queens english " ? ) Toodle Pip old boy, The Valley Vegan....... fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote: someone still has to make, create, kill, the stuff freegans use don't they? if you dumpster dive a package of mcdonalds hamburgers, and think yer doing great..the animal still had to die somewhere along the way, yes? yer not making any sort of stand against the cruelty you see around you, yer just real good at re-use and recycle... rvijay07 Dec 2, 2004 11:39 AM Site: Freegan.info Someone I know said this site goes too far as it says Freegans are better than Vegans. What is your opinion in this regard ? http://freegan.info Thanks. Vijay To send an email to - Groups Sponsor Groups Links · To visit your group on the web, go to: / · To from this group, send an email to: - · Your use of is subject to the To send an email to - Peter H Moving house? Beach bar in Thailand? New Wardrobe? Win £10k with Mail to make your dream a reality. To send an email to - To send an email to - To send an email to - To send an email to - Win a castle for NYE with your mates and Messenger To send an email to - ______________________ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk ______________________ This message is confidential and is intended for the addressee only; unless clearly stated that this disclaimer should not apply, this e-mail is not intended to create legally binding commitments on behalf of FDM Group Plc, nor do its contents reflect the corporate views or policies of FDM. Any unauthorised disclosure, use or dissemination, either whole or partial, is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient of the message, please notify the sender immediately. ______________________ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk ______________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 7, 2004 Report Share Posted December 7, 2004 Hi Victoria > only been vegan for about 6 weeks, dont mean to sound stupid but what is a freegan? I believe this is the article that started the discussion!: http://freegan.info BB Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 7, 2004 Report Share Posted December 7, 2004 This is what freegan.info says about us vegans, this holier than thou attitude, turns me off. -anouk Criticism of Veganism: The vegan theory is essentially a boycott of any products that injure animals in their production. The vegan consumers are flexing their monetary muscle and "voting with their dollars" for the products that don't injure animals. These dollars are voting for coca-cola, big corporate grocery stores, greasy-fast food (we all know Taco Bell vegans), and worse. Shouldn't truly conscientious folks seek something more? I don't vote because no matter who I vote for, the government always wins and when you "vote with yur dollars", consumerism always wins, capitalism always wins. So.... make a list of allt he unethical practices that really piss you off and make a list of all the corporations and products you want to boycott. Veganism is a good first step, but is your only concern animals? I made this list and when I was done, I couldn't really justify buying anything, I couldn't get behind any aspect of the corporate death consumer machine so I decided to boycott everything. I still spend money sometimes (I love going out for Thai food) but I try to be very conscientious about my consumption. Besides the concern that veganism as an ethic for eating stops short, it is also still a very high impact lifestyle. The packaging from vegan food doesn't take up less space in the landfill or consume less resources just cause the food is vegan. The whole produce and consume dynamic is still played out, but the setting is a fancy health food store instead of a supermarket. veganism is not a threat, or a challenge to the wasteful practices of our capitalist society. - Andrew Barnes 12/6/2004 7:43:58 PM RE: Site: Freegan.info Nothing to do with vegans from what I can make out Andrew BarnesAccount Manager FDM GroupLanchester House - Trafalgar Place - Brighton - BN1 4FLTel: +44 (0)870 060 3100 - Fax: +44 (0)870 060 3101 - Mob: +44 (0)7970 075 905andrew.barneswww.fdmgroup.com victoria leggett [tipples78] 06 December 2004 18:43 Subject: Re: Site: Freegan.info hi only been vegan for about 6 weeks, dont mean to sound stupid but what is a freegan?Peter <metalscarab wrote: Yep - but I was trying not to be too mean - but since you mention it... there was also an apostrophe missing from "queens" (sorry Peter!) :-) BB Peter - Jo bb Saturday, December 04, 2004 8:48 PM Re: Site: Freegan.info LOL - to be picky-picky - shouldn't it also be 'try to' not 'try and'?Jo - Peter Saturday, December 04, 2004 7:06 PM Re: Site: Freegan.info Hi Peter Yer know... I reckon if you're going to say things like that you should really put apostrophes in words like "don't" :-) BB Peter (aka grammar nazi :-)) - peter hurd Saturday, December 04, 2004 2:07 PM Re: Site: Freegan.info Fraggle, This is your first warning, too many "yer"`s in one sentance. DONT DO IT AGAIN! I know that you are American, but try and use the English language ( notice I refrained from using the phrase "the queens english"? ) Toodle Pip old boy, The Valley Vegan.......fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote: someone still has to make, create, kill, the stuff freegans use don't they? if you dumpster dive a package of mcdonalds hamburgers, and think yer doing great..the animal still had to die somewhere along the way, yes? yer not making any sort of stand against the cruelty you see around you, yer just real good at re-use and recycle... rvijay07 Dec 2, 2004 11:39 AM Site: Freegan.info Someone I know said this site goes too far as it says Freegans are better than Vegans. What is your opinion in this regard ?http://freegan.infoThanks.VijayTo send an email to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 7, 2004 Report Share Posted December 7, 2004 I don't know if members of the list will agree with me, but I don't think that "the vegan theory is essentially a boycott of any products that injure animals". In my view, animal rights / liberation is the philosophy which is essential, and vegetarianism / veganism is a lifestyle that is compatible with the philosophy. Every individual can have only a very limited impact by refusing to use or eat some products. As Daniel Quinn said, "People do what they think. To change what they do change what they think". In this case, what they do is all kinds of cruelties toward nonhuman animals. They justify these cruelties by anthropocentric philosophies which are very old and established. It is not enough to just stop eating and using animal products. In my view it is much more important to educate people about what humans and nonhuman animals are, and to ask what is it that justifies such cruel treatment of nonhumans. Philosophers and thinkers like Peter Singer, Tom Regan, Gary Francione, Joan Dunayer, Carol J. Adams, and many, many others have been doing this for at least 30 years. The goal of the animal rights movement is to change the way the society treats nonhuman animals. The society must change the laws and abondon all practices which exploit nonhuman animals. I think this cannot be done just by boycots. - Taga Sickler Tuesday, December 07, 2004 2:25 AM RE: Site: Freegan.info This is what freegan.info says about us vegans, this holier than thou attitude, turns me off. -anouk Criticism of Veganism: The vegan theory is essentially a boycott of any products that injure animals in their production. The vegan consumers are flexing their monetary muscle and "voting with their dollars" for the products that don't injure animals. These dollars are voting for coca-cola, big corporate grocery stores, greasy-fast food (we all know Taco Bell vegans), and worse. Shouldn't truly conscientious folks seek something more? I don't vote because no matter who I vote for, the government always wins and when you "vote with yur dollars", consumerism always wins, capitalism always wins. So.... make a list of allt he unethical practices that really piss you off and make a list of all the corporations and products you want to boycott. Veganism is a good first step, but is your only concern animals? I made this list and when I was done, I couldn't really justify buying anything, I couldn't get behind any aspect of the corporate death consumer machine so I decided to boycott everything. I still spend money sometimes (I love going out for Thai food) but I try to be very conscientious about my consumption. Besides the concern that veganism as an ethic for eating stops short, it is also still a very high impact lifestyle. The packaging from vegan food doesn't take up less space in the landfill or consume less resources just cause the food is vegan. The whole produce and consume dynamic is still played out, but the setting is a fancy health food store instead of a supermarket. veganism is not a threat, or a challenge to the wasteful practices of our capitalist society. - Andrew Barnes 12/6/2004 7:43:58 PM RE: Site: Freegan.info Nothing to do with vegans from what I can make out Andrew BarnesAccount Manager FDM GroupLanchester House - Trafalgar Place - Brighton - BN1 4FLTel: +44 (0)870 060 3100 - Fax: +44 (0)870 060 3101 - Mob: +44 (0)7970 075 905andrew.barneswww.fdmgroup.com victoria leggett [tipples78] 06 December 2004 18:43 Subject: Re: Site: Freegan.info hi only been vegan for about 6 weeks, dont mean to sound stupid but what is a freegan?Peter <metalscarab wrote: Yep - but I was trying not to be too mean - but since you mention it... there was also an apostrophe missing from "queens" (sorry Peter!) :-) BB Peter - Jo bb Saturday, December 04, 2004 8:48 PM Re: Site: Freegan.info LOL - to be picky-picky - shouldn't it also be 'try to' not 'try and'?Jo - Peter Saturday, December 04, 2004 7:06 PM Re: Site: Freegan.info Hi Peter Yer know... I reckon if you're going to say things like that you should really put apostrophes in words like "don't" :-) BB Peter (aka grammar nazi :-)) - peter hurd Saturday, December 04, 2004 2:07 PM Re: Site: Freegan.info Fraggle, This is your first warning, too many "yer"`s in one sentance. DONT DO IT AGAIN! I know that you are American, but try and use the English language ( notice I refrained from using the phrase "the queens english"? ) Toodle Pip old boy, The Valley Vegan.......fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote: someone still has to make, create, kill, the stuff freegans use don't they? if you dumpster dive a package of mcdonalds hamburgers, and think yer doing great..the animal still had to die somewhere along the way, yes? yer not making any sort of stand against the cruelty you see around you, yer just real good at re-use and recycle... rvijay07 Dec 2, 2004 11:39 AM Site: Freegan.info Someone I know said this site goes too far as it says Freegans are better than Vegans. What is your opinion in this regard ?http://freegan.infoThanks.VijayTo send an email to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 7, 2004 Report Share Posted December 7, 2004 Is being Welsh an excuse? Excuse me while I burn a holiday home................... The Valley Vegan...........Peter <metalscarab wrote: Yep - but I was trying not to be too mean - but since you mention it... there was also an apostrophe missing from "queens" (sorry Peter!) :-) BB Peter - Jo bb Saturday, December 04, 2004 8:48 PM Re: Site: Freegan.info LOL - to be picky-picky - shouldn't it also be 'try to' not 'try and'?Jo - Peter Saturday, December 04, 2004 7:06 PM Re: Site: Freegan.info Hi Peter Yer know... I reckon if you're going to say things like that you should really put apostrophes in words like "don't" :-) BB Peter (aka grammar nazi :-)) - peter hurd Saturday, December 04, 2004 2:07 PM Re: Site: Freegan.info Fraggle, This is your first warning, too many "yer"`s in one sentance. DONT DO IT AGAIN! I know that you are American, but try and use the English language ( notice I refrained from using the phrase "the queens english"? ) Toodle Pip old boy, The Valley Vegan.......fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote: someone still has to make, create, kill, the stuff freegans use don't they? if you dumpster dive a package of mcdonalds hamburgers, and think yer doing great..the animal still had to die somewhere along the way, yes? yer not making any sort of stand against the cruelty you see around you, yer just real good at re-use and recycle... rvijay07 Dec 2, 2004 11:39 AM Site: Freegan.info Someone I know said this site goes too far as it says Freegans are better than Vegans. What is your opinion in this regard ?http://freegan.infoThanks.VijayTo send an email to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 7, 2004 Report Share Posted December 7, 2004 Lots of big words there, so excuse my ignorance, but I think that you can vote with your wallet, and also by letting the company that you are boycotting know why you are doing it by mail/e-mail etc.....I believe in that old idiom " from little acorns do mighty oaks grow". Maybe I am just a hopeless romantic, but I like to think that every one of us can and do make a difference. Smiling in the face of adversity, The Valley Vegan.......Hrvoje Nezic <hrvoje.nezic wrote: I don't know if members of the list will agree with me, but I don't think that "the vegan theory is essentially a boycott of any products that injure animals". In my view, animal rights / liberation is the philosophy which is essential, and vegetarianism / veganism is a lifestyle that is compatible with the philosophy. Every individual can have only a very limited impact by refusing to use or eat some products. As Daniel Quinn said, "People do what they think. To change what they do change what they think". In this case, what they do is all kinds of cruelties toward nonhuman animals. They justify these cruelties by anthropocentric philosophies which are very old and established. It is not enough to just stop eating and using animal products. In my view it is much more important to educate people about what humans and nonhuman animals are, and to ask what is it that justifies such cruel treatment of nonhumans. Philosophers and thinkers like Peter Singer, Tom Regan, Gary Francione, Joan Dunayer, Carol J. Adams, and many, many others have been doing this for at least 30 years. The goal of the animal rights movement is to change the way the society treats nonhuman animals. The society must change the laws and abondon all practices which exploit nonhuman animals. I think this cannot be done just by boycots. - Taga Sickler Tuesday, December 07, 2004 2:25 AM RE: Site: Freegan.info This is what freegan.info says about us vegans, this holier than thou attitude, turns me off. -anouk Criticism of Veganism: The vegan theory is essentially a boycott of any products that injure animals in their production. The vegan consumers are flexing their monetary muscle and "voting with their dollars" for the products that don't injure animals. These dollars are voting for coca-cola, big corporate grocery stores, greasy-fast food (we all know Taco Bell vegans), and worse. Shouldn't truly conscientious folks seek something more? I don't vote because no matter who I vote for, the government always wins and when you "vote with yur dollars", consumerism always wins, capitalism always wins. So.... make a list of allt he unethical practices that really piss you off and make a list of all the corporations and products you want to boycott. Veganism is a good first step, but is your only concern animals? I made this list and when I was done, I couldn't really justify buying anything, I couldn't get behind any aspect of the corporate death consumer machine so I decided to boycott everything. I still spend money sometimes (I love going out for Thai food) but I try to be very conscientious about my consumption. Besides the concern that veganism as an ethic for eating stops short, it is also still a very high impact lifestyle. The packaging from vegan food doesn't take up less space in the landfill or consume less resources just cause the food is vegan. The whole produce and consume dynamic is still played out, but the setting is a fancy health food store instead of a supermarket. veganism is not a threat, or a challenge to the wasteful practices of our capitalist society. - Andrew Barnes 12/6/2004 7:43:58 PM RE: Site: Freegan.info Nothing to do with vegans from what I can make out Andrew BarnesAccount Manager FDM GroupLanchester House - Trafalgar Place - Brighton - BN1 4FLTel: +44 (0)870 060 3100 - Fax: +44 (0)870 060 3101 - Mob: +44 (0)7970 075 905andrew.barneswww.fdmgroup.com victoria leggett [tipples78] 06 December 2004 18:43 Subject: Re: Site: Freegan.info hi only been vegan for about 6 weeks, dont mean to sound stupid but what is a freegan?Peter <metalscarab wrote: Yep - but I was trying not to be too mean - but since you mention it... there was also an apostrophe missing from "queens" (sorry Peter!) :-) BB Peter - Jo bb Saturday, December 04, 2004 8:48 PM Re: Site: Freegan.info LOL - to be picky-picky - shouldn't it also be 'try to' not 'try and'?Jo - Peter Saturday, December 04, 2004 7:06 PM Re: Site: Freegan.info Hi Peter Yer know... I reckon if you're going to say things like that you should really put apostrophes in words like "don't" :-) BB Peter (aka grammar nazi :-)) - peter hurd Saturday, December 04, 2004 2:07 PM Re: Site: Freegan.info Fraggle, This is your first warning, too many "yer"`s in one sentance. DONT DO IT AGAIN! I know that you are American, but try and use the English language ( notice I refrained from using the phrase "the queens english"? ) Toodle Pip old boy, The Valley Vegan.......fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote: someone still has to make, create, kill, the stuff freegans use don't they? if you dumpster dive a package of mcdonalds hamburgers, and think yer doing great..the animal still had to die somewhere along the way, yes? yer not making any sort of stand against the cruelty you see around you, yer just real good at re-use and recycle... rvijay07 Dec 2, 2004 11:39 AM Site: Freegan.info Someone I know said this site goes too far as it says Freegans are better than Vegans. What is your opinion in this regard ?http://freegan.infoThanks.VijayTo send an email to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 7, 2004 Report Share Posted December 7, 2004 Boy not a lot of thought went into that article did it? Talk about taring us all with the same brush! Take it as it was meant to be.....someones opinion, and treat it as here-say or maybe heresy! The Valley Vegan.......Taga Sickler <zurumato wrote: This is what freegan.info says about us vegans, this holier than thou attitude, turns me off. -anouk Criticism of Veganism: The vegan theory is essentially a boycott of any products that injure animals in their production. The vegan consumers are flexing their monetary muscle and "voting with their dollars" for the products that don't injure animals. These dollars are voting for coca-cola, big corporate grocery stores, greasy-fast food (we all know Taco Bell vegans), and worse. Shouldn't truly conscientious folks seek something more? I don't vote because no matter who I vote for, the government always wins and when you "vote with yur dollars", consumerism always wins, capitalism always wins. So.... make a list of allt he unethical practices that really piss you off and make a list of all the corporations and products you want to boycott. Veganism is a good first step, but is your only concern animals? I made this list and when I was done, I couldn't really justify buying anything, I couldn't get behind any aspect of the corporate death consumer machine so I decided to boycott everything. I still spend money sometimes (I love going out for Thai food) but I try to be very conscientious about my consumption. Besides the concern that veganism as an ethic for eating stops short, it is also still a very high impact lifestyle. The packaging from vegan food doesn't take up less space in the landfill or consume less resources just cause the food is vegan. The whole produce and consume dynamic is still played out, but the setting is a fancy health food store instead of a supermarket. veganism is not a threat, or a challenge to the wasteful practices of our capitalist society. - Andrew Barnes 12/6/2004 7:43:58 PM RE: Site: Freegan.info Nothing to do with vegans from what I can make out Andrew BarnesAccount Manager FDM GroupLanchester House - Trafalgar Place - Brighton - BN1 4FLTel: +44 (0)870 060 3100 - Fax: +44 (0)870 060 3101 - Mob: +44 (0)7970 075 905andrew.barneswww.fdmgroup.com victoria leggett [tipples78] 06 December 2004 18:43 Subject: Re: Site: Freegan.info hi only been vegan for about 6 weeks, dont mean to sound stupid but what is a freegan?Peter <metalscarab wrote: Yep - but I was trying not to be too mean - but since you mention it... there was also an apostrophe missing from "queens" (sorry Peter!) :-) BB Peter - Jo bb Saturday, December 04, 2004 8:48 PM Re: Site: Freegan.info LOL - to be picky-picky - shouldn't it also be 'try to' not 'try and'?Jo - Peter Saturday, December 04, 2004 7:06 PM Re: Site: Freegan.info Hi Peter Yer know... I reckon if you're going to say things like that you should really put apostrophes in words like "don't" :-) BB Peter (aka grammar nazi :-)) - peter hurd Saturday, December 04, 2004 2:07 PM Re: Site: Freegan.info Fraggle, This is your first warning, too many "yer"`s in one sentance. DONT DO IT AGAIN! I know that you are American, but try and use the English language ( notice I refrained from using the phrase "the queens english"? ) Toodle Pip old boy, The Valley Vegan.......fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote: someone still has to make, create, kill, the stuff freegans use don't they? if you dumpster dive a package of mcdonalds hamburgers, and think yer doing great..the animal still had to die somewhere along the way, yes? yer not making any sort of stand against the cruelty you see around you, yer just real good at re-use and recycle... rvijay07 Dec 2, 2004 11:39 AM Site: Freegan.info Someone I know said this site goes too far as it says Freegans are better than Vegans. What is your opinion in this regard ?http://freegan.infoThanks.VijayTo send an email to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 7, 2004 Report Share Posted December 7, 2004 Cyrrrrnwwwwrrrrrrrr? Is that the North dialect or the South? Either way, I must refuse your proposal of marriage! Let us never speak of it again! The Valley Vegan.....fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote: *raises eyebrow* i'm being skooled in language by the fellow whose native tongue is akin to cats howling... Cyrrrrnwwwwrrrrrrrr hee hee yer a funny guy peter *ducks and runs* peter hurd Dec 4, 2004 6:07 AM Re: Site: Freegan.info Fraggle, This is your first warning, too many "yer"`s in one sentance. DONT DO IT AGAIN! I know that you are American, but try and use the English language ( notice I refrained from using the phrase "the queens english"? ) Toodle Pip old boy, The Valley Vegan.......fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote: someone still has to make, create, kill, the stuff freegans use don't they? if you dumpster dive a package of mcdonalds hamburgers, and think yer doing great..the animal still had to die somewhere along the way, yes? yer not making any sort of stand against the cruelty you see around you, yer just real good at re-use and recycle... rvijay07 Dec 2, 2004 11:39 AM Site: Freegan.info Someone I know said this site goes too far as it says Freegans are better than Vegans. What is your opinion in this regard ?http://freegan.infoThanks.VijayTo send an email to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 7, 2004 Report Share Posted December 7, 2004 Not you too Jo? Cymru am byth...... The Valley Vegan.....Jo bb <Heartwork wrote: LOL - to be picky-picky - shouldn't it also be 'try to' not 'try and'?Jo - Peter Saturday, December 04, 2004 7:06 PM Re: Site: Freegan.info Hi Peter Yer know... I reckon if you're going to say things like that you should really put apostrophes in words like "don't" :-) BB Peter (aka grammar nazi :-)) - peter hurd Saturday, December 04, 2004 2:07 PM Re: Site: Freegan.info Fraggle, This is your first warning, too many "yer"`s in one sentance. DONT DO IT AGAIN! I know that you are American, but try and use the English language ( notice I refrained from using the phrase "the queens english"? ) Toodle Pip old boy, The Valley Vegan.......fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote: someone still has to make, create, kill, the stuff freegans use don't they? if you dumpster dive a package of mcdonalds hamburgers, and think yer doing great..the animal still had to die somewhere along the way, yes? yer not making any sort of stand against the cruelty you see around you, yer just real good at re-use and recycle... rvijay07 Dec 2, 2004 11:39 AM Site: Freegan.info Someone I know said this site goes too far as it says Freegans are better than Vegans. What is your opinion in this regard ?http://freegan.infoThanks.VijayTo send an email to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 7, 2004 Report Share Posted December 7, 2004 Which apostrophe would that be Peter, Paul, John etc? The Valley Vegan........... Totally confused again!Peter <metalscarab wrote: Hi Peter Yer know... I reckon if you're going to say things like that you should really put apostrophes in words like "don't" :-) BB Peter (aka grammar nazi :-)) - peter hurd Saturday, December 04, 2004 2:07 PM Re: Site: Freegan.info Fraggle, This is your first warning, too many "yer"`s in one sentance. DONT DO IT AGAIN! I know that you are American, but try and use the English language ( notice I refrained from using the phrase "the queens english"? ) Toodle Pip old boy, The Valley Vegan.......fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote: someone still has to make, create, kill, the stuff freegans use don't they? if you dumpster dive a package of mcdonalds hamburgers, and think yer doing great..the animal still had to die somewhere along the way, yes? yer not making any sort of stand against the cruelty you see around you, yer just real good at re-use and recycle... rvijay07 Dec 2, 2004 11:39 AM Site: Freegan.info Someone I know said this site goes too far as it says Freegans are better than Vegans. What is your opinion in this regard ?http://freegan.infoThanks.VijayTo send an email to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 7, 2004 Report Share Posted December 7, 2004 Hi Hrvoje > I don't know if members of the list will agree with me, but I don't think > that "the vegan theory is essentially a boycott of any products that injure animals". I do indeed agree! I think, for a start, it is incredibly ignorant for anyone to try to classify veganism as a movement with one, and only one, interest. Vegan is simply a term used to define someone who chooses not to consume any products from animals. It makes no ethical or moral definition, and could just as easily refer to someone who does it for health or religious reasons, as to those who do it for ethical ones. The article struck me as being about as intelligent as the people you meet who say "animal rights activists don't care about human suffering" (as though the people who say it do!) From what I can make out from the article, the concept of the writer (and I am careful not to assume this is true of all "fregans") is to do as little to contribute to society as possible. He/she does not want to have to work to earn money in order to purchase food, so they come up with an elaborate "moral" excuse for it. Personally, I think a lot more can be achieved through positive action than through apathy. After all, I can't imagine that slavery would have been abolished if people had just said "well, I disagree with slavery, so I won't put money towards it", and then do nothing at all beyond that. There's that famous quote: "All that is necessary for evil to win is for the good to do nothing". My reasons for being vegan are to do with doing as little harm as I can to other beings, and to the planet - but that doesn't mean I either ignore all other issues, or that my involvement with important issues end with my non-patronisation of them. I suspect that, for the writer of the article, his involvement does indeed end with his non-participation in society! Which is really quite sad, because if you don't participate, how can you help to improve things?? BB Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 7, 2004 Report Share Posted December 7, 2004 Hi Peter > Is being Welsh an excuse? It's possibly one of the best excuses there is :-) BB Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 7, 2004 Report Share Posted December 7, 2004 Is being Welsh an excuse? Excuse me while I burn a holiday home................... Don't you like us putting our holiday money into your economy then :-) BBJo The Valley Vegan...........Peter <metalscarab wrote: Yep - but I was trying not to be too mean - but since you mention it... there was also an apostrophe missing from "queens" (sorry Peter!) :-) BB Peter - Jo bb Saturday, December 04, 2004 8:48 PM Re: Site: Freegan.info LOL - to be picky-picky - shouldn't it also be 'try to' not 'try and'?Jo - Peter Saturday, December 04, 2004 7:06 PM Re: Site: Freegan.info Hi Peter Yer know... I reckon if you're going to say things like that you should really put apostrophes in words like "don't" :-) BB Peter (aka grammar nazi :-)) - peter hurd Saturday, December 04, 2004 2:07 PM Re: Site: Freegan.info Fraggle, This is your first warning, too many "yer"`s in one sentance. DONT DO IT AGAIN! I know that you are American, but try and use the English language ( notice I refrained from using the phrase "the queens english"? ) Toodle Pip old boy, The Valley Vegan.......fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote: someone still has to make, create, kill, the stuff freegans use don't they? if you dumpster dive a package of mcdonalds hamburgers, and think yer doing great..the animal still had to die somewhere along the way, yes? yer not making any sort of stand against the cruelty you see around you, yer just real good at re-use and recycle... rvijay07 Dec 2, 2004 11:39 AM Site: Freegan.info Someone I know said this site goes too far as it says Freegans are better than Vegans. What is your opinion in this regard ?http://freegan.infoThanks.VijayTo send an email to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 7, 2004 Report Share Posted December 7, 2004 I agree Peter - every little action counts - look at the failure of gm crops here. Jo Lots of big words there, so excuse my ignorance, but I think that you can vote with your wallet, and also by letting the company that you are boycotting know why you are doing it by mail/e-mail etc.....I believe in that old idiom " from little acorns do mighty oaks grow". Maybe I am just a hopeless romantic, but I like to think that every one of us can and do make a difference. Smiling in the face of adversity, The Valley Vegan....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 7, 2004 Report Share Posted December 7, 2004 Hi Peter Just kidding! What are you saying??? Jo Not you too Jo? Cymru am byth...... The Valley Vegan..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 7, 2004 Report Share Posted December 7, 2004 I think boycotting goods is as good as campaigning - they both have their place. The reason boycotting helps is because companies like lots of money and if enough people boycott their goods the companies don't get as much money as they want. Apparently 40 dairies a week are closing in Britain (I heard that on the radio yesterday - but surely after a couple of weeks there wouldn't be any left!) because a lot fewer people are drinking cow milk. Jo - Hrvoje Nezic Tuesday, December 07, 2004 11:11 AM Re: Site: Freegan.info I don't know if members of the list will agree with me, but I don't think that "the vegan theory is essentially a boycott of any products that injure animals". In my view, animal rights / liberation is the philosophy which is essential, and vegetarianism / veganism is a lifestyle that is compatible with the philosophy. Every individual can have only a very limited impact by refusing to use or eat some products. As Daniel Quinn said, "People do what they think. To change what they do change what they think". In this case, what they do is all kinds of cruelties toward nonhuman animals. They justify these cruelties by anthropocentric philosophies which are very old and established. It is not enough to just stop eating and using animal products. In my view it is much more important to educate people about what humans and nonhuman animals are, and to ask what is it that justifies such cruel treatment of nonhumans. Philosophers and thinkers like Peter Singer, Tom Regan, Gary Francione, Joan Dunayer, Carol J. Adams, and many, many others have been doing this for at least 30 years. The goal of the animal rights movement is to change the way the society treats nonhuman animals. The society must change the laws and abondon all practices which exploit nonhuman animals. I think this cannot be done just by boycots. - Taga Sickler Tuesday, December 07, 2004 2:25 AM RE: Site: Freegan.info This is what freegan.info says about us vegans, this holier than thou attitude, turns me off. -anouk Criticism of Veganism: The vegan theory is essentially a boycott of any products that injure animals in their production. The vegan consumers are flexing their monetary muscle and "voting with their dollars" for the products that don't injure animals. These dollars are voting for coca-cola, big corporate grocery stores, greasy-fast food (we all know Taco Bell vegans), and worse. Shouldn't truly conscientious folks seek something more? I don't vote because no matter who I vote for, the government always wins and when you "vote with yur dollars", consumerism always wins, capitalism always wins. So.... make a list of allt he unethical practices that really piss you off and make a list of all the corporations and products you want to boycott. Veganism is a good first step, but is your only concern animals? I made this list and when I was done, I couldn't really justify buying anything, I couldn't get behind any aspect of the corporate death consumer machine so I decided to boycott everything. I still spend money sometimes (I love going out for Thai food) but I try to be very conscientious about my consumption. Besides the concern that veganism as an ethic for eating stops short, it is also still a very high impact lifestyle. The packaging from vegan food doesn't take up less space in the landfill or consume less resources just cause the food is vegan. The whole produce and consume dynamic is still played out, but the setting is a fancy health food store instead of a supermarket. veganism is not a threat, or a challenge to the wasteful practices of our capitalist society. - Andrew Barnes 12/6/2004 7:43:58 PM RE: Site: Freegan.info Nothing to do with vegans from what I can make out Andrew BarnesAccount Manager FDM GroupLanchester House - Trafalgar Place - Brighton - BN1 4FLTel: +44 (0)870 060 3100 - Fax: +44 (0)870 060 3101 - Mob: +44 (0)7970 075 905andrew.barneswww.fdmgroup.com victoria leggett [tipples78] 06 December 2004 18:43 Subject: Re: Site: Freegan.info hi only been vegan for about 6 weeks, dont mean to sound stupid but what is a freegan?Peter <metalscarab wrote: Yep - but I was trying not to be too mean - but since you mention it... there was also an apostrophe missing from "queens" (sorry Peter!) :-) BB Peter - Jo bb Saturday, December 04, 2004 8:48 PM Re: Site: Freegan.info LOL - to be picky-picky - shouldn't it also be 'try to' not 'try and'?Jo - Peter Saturday, December 04, 2004 7:06 PM Re: Site: Freegan.info Hi Peter Yer know... I reckon if you're going to say things like that you should really put apostrophes in words like "don't" :-) BB Peter (aka grammar nazi :-)) - peter hurd Saturday, December 04, 2004 2:07 PM Re: Site: Freegan.info Fraggle, This is your first warning, too many "yer"`s in one sentance. DONT DO IT AGAIN! I know that you are American, but try and use the English language ( notice I refrained from using the phrase "the queens english"? ) Toodle Pip old boy, The Valley Vegan.......fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote: someone still has to make, create, kill, the stuff freegans use don't they? if you dumpster dive a package of mcdonalds hamburgers, and think yer doing great..the animal still had to die somewhere along the way, yes? yer not making any sort of stand against the cruelty you see around you, yer just real good at re-use and recycle... rvijay07 Dec 2, 2004 11:39 AM Site: Freegan.info Someone I know said this site goes too far as it says Freegans are better than Vegans. What is your opinion in this regard ?http://freegan.infoThanks.VijayTo send an email to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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