Guest guest Posted January 30, 2005 Report Share Posted January 30, 2005 http://www.guardian.co.uk/iran/story/0%2C12858%2C1401310%2C00.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2005 Report Share Posted January 30, 2005 told ya.. they're next we got special forces in there jet overflights... only a matter of time rvijay07 Jan 30, 2005 12:52 AM US Jets Over Iran ?!! http://www.guardian.co.uk/iran/story/0%2C12858%2C1401310%2C00.htmlTo send an email to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2005 Report Share Posted January 30, 2005 , fraggle <EBbrewpunx@e...> wrote: > Let us assume the US goes into Iran and does the same like they did in Iraq. Still it doesn't change things for the rest of the World. The rest of the World will just ignore it and keep on going with life. Vijay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2005 Report Share Posted January 30, 2005 i wouldn't count on that the rest of the world didn't exactly ignore it when we went into Iraq... i dunno, i saw millions of people on the street...sooo..someone wasn't ignoring it and when the spanish govt added their own troops to the mix, someone certainly didn't ignore it, and killed a whole lot of people on a train... Iran is bigger the Iraq, and hasn't been under embargo for a decade if they do some sort of quick "surgical" strike, it'll cause an uproar, and i don't know where it will end up... if they do something a little more, forceful, like an invasion...thats a whole other kettle of tofu... rvijay07 Jan 30, 2005 12:23 PM Re: US Jets Over Iran ?!! , fraggle <EBbrewpunx@e...> wrote:> Let us assume the US goes into Iran and does the same like they did inIraq. Still it doesn't change things for the rest of the World. Therest of the World will just ignore it and keep on going with life.VijayTo send an email to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2005 Report Share Posted January 30, 2005 , fraggle <EBbrewpunx@e...> wrote: > Who do you think will react to it ? What will they do in retaliation ? Not Countries. Some small groups will try a few things for sure. But I don't think this will have a significant impact on the War/strikes. Vijay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2005 Report Share Posted January 30, 2005 , fraggle <EBbrewpunx@e...> wrote: > Before US attacked Iraq for sure people protested. Some said there will be a World War etc., But all other Countries stayed away from actually involving against the US. None of the Countries got involved then and none will get involved now. India, Russia and China are developing Countries with a lot of things to do. They can't afford a war now. Specially, unless they are dragged throat and neck into it. With a huge population, they have a tremendous responsibility and will ALWAYS be behind what they have to do. The rest are much smaller against the US. Vijay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2005 Report Share Posted January 30, 2005 depends... i forsee the overthrow of secular dictatorships across the mid east, like egypt, and replaced with some sort of theocracy... i can see China somehow getting involved... at the very least, i can forsee that if we invade iran, the us will have to concede something to china, such as they invade taiwan, and we look the other way... rvijay07 Jan 30, 2005 1:10 PM Re: US Jets Over Iran ?!! , fraggle <EBbrewpunx@e...> wrote:> Who do you think will react to it ? What will they do in retaliation ?Not Countries. Some small groups will try a few things for sure. But Idon't think this will have a significant impact on the War/strikes.VijayTo send an email to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2005 Report Share Posted January 30, 2005 countries go to war at the drop of the hat the US is an economic powerhouse, and the only remaining super power, so other nations are reluctant to step out of line thats not gonna be the case forever, and the US is stretched incredibly thin militarily and structurally... all you need is the govt of Saudi Arabia to be overthrown, and the oil flow there to be shut off, and we'd crumble here... the EU is positioning itself as a viable alternative to the US... it wouldn't take much to reallign a lot of the world.... and, governments can fall.. the arab/muslim world already views the US with disdain and hatred...do something to Iran, and you are just confirming in many minds that the US is going to do wot it pleases where it pleases, and u create an entire new wave of *terrorists* or sympathizers... rvijay07 Jan 30, 2005 1:15 PM Re: US Jets Over Iran ?!! , fraggle <EBbrewpunx@e...> wrote:> Before US attacked Iraq for sure people protested. Some said therewill be a World War etc., But all other Countries stayed away fromactually involving against the US. None of the Countries got involvedthen and none will get involved now.India, Russia and China are developing Countries with a lot of thingsto do. They can't afford a war now. Specially, unless they are draggedthroat and neck into it. With a huge population, they have atremendous responsibility and will ALWAYS be behind what they have to do.The rest are much smaller against the US.Vijay To send an email to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2005 Report Share Posted January 30, 2005 , fraggle <EBbrewpunx@e...> wrote: > Similar things were said/considered before Iraq attack. Nothing happened. The only thing is that the US is stretched incredibly thin. Due to challenging economy most countries don't have much to retaliate with. At the most they can dump the US dollar, beyond this anything else seems unlikely. The Nations may all protest to the UN as before for sure. However, unless Counitres like Russia, China etc., are attacked by the US for the most part life will go on as usual. Vijay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2005 Report Share Posted January 30, 2005 iraq and iran are very different countries/situations ok...first off, i'm going to apologize..nuthin tends to rile people quicker then politics, unless its religion so, dancin a fine line here.. but, to continue.. lets look at possible scenario's here... Iran has a nuclear program, and has been subjected to various intrusive searches and inpsections by the IAEA..and while they haven't found anything to suggest that iran is plannin on building bombs, they have left the door open that its possible and they have some worries Iran has several nuclear facilities, some light water reactors on the persian gulf, at least 2 heavy water facilities, and at least one uranium enrichment site.. Currently, the IAEA carries out inspections and searches under Non -proliferation Treaty that Iran is a signatory of... and currently, there is a distinct, if somewhat far off, saber rattling but certain figures here in the US....i've already heard WMD and such mentioned more then once in connection with Iran so, wot are the possible scenario's? a. the US launches a series of pre-emptive strikes against the nuclear sites, with cruise missiles and/or stealth aircraft b. the US invades c. Isreal launches a pre-emptive strike. first off, any of the above wouldn't work for a variety of reasons iran's nuclear faciliites are scattered and parts of them are in hardened underground silos iran has a much better anti-aircraft defense system then Iraq ever had Iran is just plain BIGGER when Isreal bombed Iraq's nuclear site back in 1981, Iraq was already weakened by war with Iran, and there was only one site...it also backfired tho, because the site really was a nuclear power plant, ill-suited to building any nuclear bombs...in response, this attack drove Saddam even farther out of his unhinged mind and he poured BILLIONS into obtaining/designing a bomb back in the 1980's any attack on Iran would prolly accomplish the same thing, convince Iran that it needs a nuclear program for self defense, and it will withdraw from the NPT, and there will go any chance for diplomacy at allyou asked wot would the world do... for the C option, tho it has been floated around a bunch by right wing pundits down here, i don't see it as likely 1. when isreal attacked iraq, it was relatively close....iran is much farther away 2. isreal would need permission from a variety of states to cross their airspace..and, that nation would be viewed as if they were attacking another muslim country...not gonna go over well.. jordan might allow it, they generally have a close relationship with isreal...but...then they'd have to cross iraqi airspace, which would bring in US culpabilities, which i'll get to in a second turkey, nah, turkey bowed out of letting the US attack Iraq from bases inside Turkey, i doubt they'd let isreal fly overhead Saudi arabia..they have waaay too much to deal with their own fundamentalist movements who see the Saud royal family as western dupes, lackey's and pawns... so, isreal has no way of really getting there.... i suppose they could somehow fly over some african countries, but that would be a logistical nightmare, and then they'd have a narrow corridor of attack up the persian gulf...much toooo vulnerable... so, that leaves options A and B B..forget it, US can't control things in Iraq... A...a strike.. while definately in the offing, even if it succeeded beyond its wildest dreams...you've basically just shot yerself in the foot 1. there are many russians working on iran's facilities..any attack is going to shove Russia further away, and embolden any Nationalistic forces in ruissia..lotsa folks who stillthink fondly on the old soviet union there..wouldn't take much to whip those folks up 2..Iraq and afghanistan..iran has a lot of influnce on each country...right now iraq is undergoing an election..and we shall see how it turns out, but, iran has been cautioning the Shi'a majority in iraq to be pragmatic and take a wait and see approach..and even that hasn't stopped Shi'a leaders like Al Sadr from stirring up attacks on Us forces and allies....any attack on Iran would immediately stir up Shi'a populations all around the globe... any muslim govt. would have to condemn the attack, and somehow take some sort of action against it..cuz, even if Iran is Shi'a fundamentalist and scares the bejsus out of em, if they don't, their control over their populace will vanish in an instant... Saudi Arabia, Iraq, the smaller emirates along the persian gulf, all would experience severe problems... Plus, unlike Iraq, Iran has a large number of missles... while none are capabale of targetting far off places, the Shehab 1 and 2 (basically modified Scuds) could hit any number of US targets in Iraq and the persian gulf region, and the shehab 3 is definately long range enough to hit isreal... so, would the US be able to restrain isreal this time around if it came under attack like in the first gulf war? are their any voices that would urge that restraint??? would Isreal unleash its nuclear forces?? shall i go on? rvijay07 Jan 30, 2005 1:39 PM Re: US Jets Over Iran ?!! , fraggle <EBbrewpunx@e...> wrote:> Similar things were said/considered before Iraq attack. Nothinghappened. The only thing is that the US is stretched incredibly thin.Due to challenging economy most countries don't have much to retaliatewith. At the most they can dump the US dollar, beyond this anythingelse seems unlikely.The Nations may all protest to the UN as before for sure. However,unless Counitres like Russia, China etc., are attacked by the US forthe most part life will go on as usual.VijayTo send an email to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2005 Report Share Posted January 31, 2005 , fraggle <EBbrewpunx@e...> wrote: > If Iran is attacked they will have to defend themselves. What are the major Counitres in the Muslim World ? Iran, Iraq and Saudi Arabia. If they all come under control of the US, then the rest are too weak to attack the US back. Vijay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2005 Report Share Posted January 31, 2005 indonesia, pakistan, egypt, turkey...plus all the former soviet republics in central asia... i find it very unlikely that the US can gain control of Iran as it did under the shah... besides, all this talk of invasion and *axis of evil*, all its doing is strengthening the hands of the fundamentalists in Iran, at the expense of moderates rvijay07 Jan 30, 2005 8:17 PM Re: US Jets Over Iran ?!! , fraggle <EBbrewpunx@e...> wrote:> If Iran is attacked they will have to defend themselves.What are the major Counitres in the Muslim World ? Iran, Iraq andSaudi Arabia. If they all come under control of the US, then the restare too weak to attack the US back.VijayTo send an email to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2005 Report Share Posted January 31, 2005 , fraggle <EBbrewpunx@e...> wrote: > Pakistan is friendly with the US interms of the war on terror. Egypt and turkey are smaller countries. Indonesia had the Tsunami. US is already in Saudi. Former Soviet blocks are recovering and struggling with the basics, they may give a few guns or so for the cause given their budget. War costs money. War against US will be a big war. None of these places have that kind of money/technology. Besides it takes time to train and prepare manpower. They can perhaps defend themselves against another neighbor of their own but not against the US. Vijay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2005 Report Share Posted January 31, 2005 you are runnin with the belief that the people there have the same goals as their governements most of the muslim governments walk a tight rope, be they despotic autocratic regimes or not.... its not gonna take much to bowl them over... The US has the Saudi's in their pocket(and i would argue the reverse is also very true), but the house of Saud also knows that its predicament is very unstable. I mean one of Osama Bin Laden's main gripes is that A. the House of Saud are nothing but toadies for the US and western interests B. The US military bases in Saudi Arabai.. and, you won't need to attack the US.... simply overthrow yer govt in yer home country, and shut off the oil supply... not to mention sponsor "unorthodox" attacks... yer right, these are poor people and poor countries...i'm not talking WW2 tank battles here....i'm talking grind em down eruptions...i'm talking driving a tanker truck full of fuel into a tunnel and blowing it up...i'm talking of shutting off oil supplies and attacking muilitary bases in the mideast, disrupting shipping, that sort of thing... i can give an example of how this works if you like.. fer the rest of you bored with this discussion, please feel free to ignore in 1982, Isreal, for all purposes a thoroughly modern western army, invaded Lebanon, to stop PLO attacks and others. There goal was to drive out the guerrilla's, and secure a friendly regime to their north and at first it worked like a charm. They rolled up thru lebanon, and absolutely annihilated the Syria air force in a matter of hours... the isreali's entered beiruit, the PLO was forced to flee to Tunisia, ..and then...they got bogged down...the Christian Maronite-dominated Lebanese government crumbled, President Gemayel was assainated, and a full blown guerrilla war broke out...AMAL, islamic jhad and hezbullah all went bonkers basically, and filled the vacuum left by the more secular PLO (and they are Shi'a organizations)..Syria and Iran supported the guerilla war, since it was their easiest path... the war dragged on, killing scores on both sides, and over 200 US marines stationed in Beiruit... Isreal eventually withdrew to strip along the lebanese border, and then withdrew from that in 2000...Hezbullah then decimated the pro-isreali and isreali- trained and equipped South Lebanese Army...so..in a few years, a stunning Isreali military victory turned into a quagmire and then a reversal... So again, imagine any sort of attack on Iran;s nuclear facilities, and think of the 14 odd million Shia's in Iraq... how about pakistan? they do have nukes now..and mussaref had to purge his forces quite recently of more fundamentalist military officers tis a scarey world out there, and only getting worse.... fraggle rvijay07 Jan 31, 2005 3:48 AM Re: US Jets Over Iran ?!! , fraggle <EBbrewpunx@e...> wrote:> Pakistan is friendly with the US interms of the war on terror. Egyptand turkey are smaller countries. Indonesia had the Tsunami. US isalready in Saudi. Former Soviet blocks are recovering and strugglingwith the basics, they may give a few guns or so for the cause giventheir budget.War costs money. War against US will be a big war. None of theseplaces have that kind of money/technology. Besides it takes time totrain and prepare manpower. They can perhaps defend themselves againstanother neighbor of their own but not against the US.VijayTo send an email to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2005 Report Share Posted January 31, 2005 , fraggle <EBbrewpunx@e...> wrote: > oy. this all depresses the hell out of me. My dh holds dual citizenship (iranian and american). I really don't want to see anything happen. nancy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2005 Report Share Posted January 31, 2005 sorry the world depresses the hades out of me here's wishin it all turns out welll Message----- njdoane Jan 31, 2005 12:07 PM Re: US Jets Over Iran ?!! , fraggle <EBbrewpunx@e...> wrote:>oy. this all depresses the hell out of me. My dh holds dual citizenship (iranian and american). I really don't want to see anything happen.nancyTo send an email to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2005 Report Share Posted January 31, 2005 I think that nobody here wants it to happen. Jo > , fraggle <EBbrewpunx@e...> wrote: > > > oy. this all depresses the hell out of me. My dh holds dual > citizenship (iranian and american). I really don't want to see > anything happen. > > nancy To send an email to - > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2005 Report Share Posted January 31, 2005 Here is the worst case scenario. If US attacks a Country and things don't go good and turn out too hard, then US will just simply exit. In reality there is no major loss to be feared, such as an attack on US soil itself for eg.,. There maybe some loss in trying an attack, but this chance is to be taken. However, if the consequences were really bad then I don't think those in power will do it. They have very good info. and know what they are doing. Vijay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2005 Report Share Posted January 31, 2005 Well, on that note, i'm going to heartily disagree....nt: Jan 31, 2005 2:25 PM Re: US Jets Over Iran ?!! Here is the worst case scenario. If US attacks a Country and thingsdon't go good and turn out too hard, then US will just simply exit. Inreality there is no major loss to be feared, such as an attack on USsoil itself for eg.,.There maybe some loss in trying an attack, but this chance is to betaken. However, if the consequences were really bad then I don't thinkthose in power will do it. They have very good info. and know whatthey are doing.VijayTo send an email to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 1, 2005 Report Share Posted February 1, 2005 Hi Vijay > Here is the worst case scenario. If US attacks a Country and things > don't go good and turn out too hard, then US will just simply exit. In > reality there is no major loss to be feared, such as an attack on US > soil itself for eg.,. What you need to remember is that every time America invades another country, they are upsetting more and more people. By the simple law of averages, some of those people are going to be ones with extremist views and who are prepared to take extreme actions. The more people the American government upsets, the more likely it is that the " terrorism " which is so much the hype of the moment will happen. It may not be a country attacking American soil, but at some point people are likely to start taking action. Personally, I suspect that this is precisely what the current administration wants - cause more fear, put more laws in place to reduce the freedom of American people, and give them an excuse to invade even more countries. Well... the good ole e-mail scanners should be having fun with this one! BB Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 1, 2005 Report Share Posted February 1, 2005 , " Peter " <metalscarab@c...> wrote: > It may not be a country attacking > American soil, but at some point people are likely to start taking action. Who will be the people taking this action ? Will it be the Americans themselves ? Thanks. Vijay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 1, 2005 Report Share Posted February 1, 2005 no, not likely... there's a whole wide world out there..and not everyone looks very kindly on this nation, nor its actions... rvijay07 Feb 1, 2005 6:27 AM Re: US Jets Over Iran ?!! , "Peter" <metalscarab@c...> wrote:> It may not be a country attacking> American soil, but at some point people are likely to start takingaction.Who will be the people taking this action ? Will it be the Americansthemselves ?Thanks.VijayTo send an email to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 1, 2005 Report Share Posted February 1, 2005 Here is one related info. China will not dump the US dollar on its own. Presently US its one of its most important customers. A low US dollar means, more expensive for the US to import and hence lower sales. Already there are several on low/minimum income. Vijay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 1, 2005 Report Share Posted February 1, 2005 how far off on a tangent are we gomma head..only the futrue will tell sorry Vijay, china has been quietly dumping the Us Dollar and T-bills in favor of the Euro for a bit now... rvijay07 Feb 1, 2005 7:36 AM Re: US Jets Over Iran ?!! Here is one related info. China will not dump the US dollar on itsown. Presently US its one of its most important customers. A low USdollar means, more expensive for the US to import and hence lowersales. Already there are several on low/minimum income. VijayTo send an email to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 1, 2005 Report Share Posted February 1, 2005 "I sure picked a bad day to give up booze" The Valley Vegan....... (in thew control tower )fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote: told ya.. they're next we got special forces in there jet overflights... only a matter of time rvijay07 Jan 30, 2005 12:52 AM US Jets Over Iran ?!! http://www.guardian.co.uk/iran/story/0%2C12858%2C1401310%2C00.htmlTo send an email to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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