Can anyone help?

[Guest guest]

I was at work the other day and a man that works with me said something along the lines of, "the bible says that god gave us dominion over animals, so how can you say that eating meat is wrong?". I'm not christian is what I told him to begin with, but my grandfather was a baptist minister before he passed away and I was pretty sure that there are versus in the bible about god giving all creatures herbs and fruit bearing trees to "be for meat". I told him that and he laughed at me and said he'd love me to show him where the bible says it encourages vegetarianism, animal rights and the such. I found a few, Genesis 1:29-30, Romans 14:21 and Numbers 22:21-34, but I am hoping for a few experienced answers from some of you long time vegans, or maybe some verse that I don't know about or couldn't find. Thanks to everyone! Val

Mail - Easier than ever with enhanced search. Learn more.

[Guest guest]

it depends on the translation of the word *dominion*, in the original greek and arimaic, the term dominion is more akin to guardian

sorta like you can have dominion over a younger sibling

now, if you want to go snack on yer younger brother

 

as for vegetarianism in the bible...you already know about geneis

and there are others...

of course if you want to take everything literally in the bible, we;d have to stone each other to death on an hourly basis... Valerie Fjallstrom Feb 6, 2005 7:56 PM Can anyone help?

I was at work the other day and a man that works with me said something along the lines of, "the bible says that god gave us dominion over animals, so how can you say that eating meat is wrong?". I'm not christian is what I told him to begin with, but my grandfather was a baptist minister before he passed away and I was pretty sure that there are versus in the bible about god giving all creatures herbs and fruit bearing trees to "be for meat". I told him that and he laughed at me and said he'd love me to show him where the bible says it encourages vegetarianism, animal rights and the such. I found a few, Genesis 1:29-30, Romans 14:21 and Numbers 22:21-34, but I am hoping for a few experienced answers from some of you long time vegans, or maybe some verse that I don't know about or couldn't find. Thanks to everyone! Val

 

 

 

 

Mail - Easier than ever with enhanced search. Learn more. To send an email to -

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Hi Val

 

I don't know if Simon is still on the list - if so, hopefully he will give

you a good answer. If not, check the archives, because I know he has

posted some info on this sort of thing before.

 

BB

Peter

 

 

> I was at work the other day and a man that works with me said something

> along the lines of, " the bible says that god gave us dominion over

> animals, so how can you say that eating meat is wrong? " . I'm not

> christian is what I told him to begin with, but my grandfather was a

> baptist minister before he passed away and I was pretty sure that there

> are versus in the bible about god giving all creatures herbs and fruit

> bearing trees to " be for meat " . I told him that and he laughed at me and

> said he'd love me to show him where the bible says it encourages

> vegetarianism, animal rights and the such. I found a few, Genesis

> 1:29-30, Romans 14:21 and Numbers 22:21-34, but I am hoping for a few

> experienced answers from some of you long time vegans, or maybe some

> verse that I don't know about or couldn't find. Thanks to everyone! Val

>

>

>

>

> Mail - Easier than ever with enhanced search. Learn more.

[Guest guest]

Val,

 

I'm not christian either but these folks had a table at World

Vegetarian Day last fall - I'm sure you can find what you're looking

for here:

 

http://www.all-creatures.org/bible.html

 

nancy

[Guest guest]

i've been wondering about Simon....

 

http://www.beliefnet.com/story/126/story_12693_1.html

http://www.christianveg.com/wwje.htm-----Original Message----- metalscarab Feb 7, 2005 3:22 AM Re: Can anyone help? Hi ValI don't know if Simon is still on the list - if so, hopefully he will giveyou a good answer. If not, check the archives, because I know he hasposted some info on this sort of thing before.BBPeter

What you see is what you get

You've made your bed, you better lie in it

You choose your leaders and place your trust

As their lies wash you down and their promises rust

You'll see kidney machines replaced by rockets and guns

And the public wants what the public gets

But I don't get what this society wants

[Guest guest]

Thank you Fraggle, Nancy and Peter for your help! I have a lot more to work with now. Valeriefraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote:

 

i've been wondering about Simon....

 

http://www.beliefnet.com/story/126/story_12693_1.html

http://www.christianveg.com/wwje.htm-----Original Message----- metalscarab Feb 7, 2005 3:22 AM Re: Can anyone help? Hi ValI don't know if Simon is still on the list - if so, hopefully he will giveyou a good answer. If not, check the archives, because I know he hasposted some info on this sort of thing before.BBPeterTo send an email to -

What you see is what you get

You've made your bed, you better lie in it

You choose your leaders and place your trust

As their lies wash you down and their promises rust

You'll see kidney machines replaced by rockets and guns

And the public wants what the public gets

But I don't get what this society wants

 

The all-new My – Get yours free!

[Guest guest]

I heard from him several months ago, saying he was having trouble with his email. He said he was remaining with us, but I'm not sure if he is.

 

Jo

 

-

fraggle

Monday, February 07, 2005 3:12 PM

Re: Can anyone help?

 

i've been wondering about Simon....

 

http://www.beliefnet.com/story/126/story_12693_1.html

http://www.christianveg.com/wwje.htm-----Original Message----- metalscarab Feb 7, 2005 3:22 AM Re: Can anyone help? Hi ValI don't know if Simon is still on the list - if so, hopefully he will giveyou a good answer. If not, check the archives, because I know he hasposted some info on this sort of thing before.BBPeterTo send an email to -

What you see is what you get

You've made your bed, you better lie in it

You choose your leaders and place your trust

As their lies wash you down and their promises rust

You'll see kidney machines replaced by rockets and guns

And the public wants what the public gets

But I don't get what this society wants

[Guest guest]

I don't think Simon is with us anymore.

 

BB

Jo

> I don't know if Simon is still on the list - if so, hopefully he will give

> you a good answer. If not, check the archives, because I know he has

> posted some info on this sort of thing before.

>

> BB

> Peter

[Guest guest]

Here are a few sites that may be of help.

 

http://www.christianveg.com/

http://www.vegsoc.org.au/religion_encourage.asp

http://www.soystache.com/jesus.htm

 

-latentdaeva

 

 

, Valerie Fjallstrom

<vfjallstrom> wrote:

> I was at work the other day and a man that works with me said

something along the lines of, " the bible says that god gave us

dominion over animals, so how can you say that eating meat is wrong? " .

I'm not christian is what I told him to begin with, but my grandfather

was a baptist minister before he passed away and I was pretty sure

that there are versus in the bible about god giving all creatures

herbs and fruit bearing trees to " be for meat " . I told him that and he

laughed at me and said he'd love me to show him where the bible says

it encourages vegetarianism, animal rights and the such. I found a

few, Genesis 1:29-30, Romans 14:21 and Numbers 22:21-34, but I am

hoping for a few experienced answers from some of you long time

vegans, or maybe some verse that I don't know about or couldn't find.

Thanks to everyone! Val

>

>

>

>

> Mail - Easier than ever with enhanced search. Learn more.

[Guest guest]

Cool, thank you!Jamie <latentdaeva wrote:

Here are a few sites that may be of help.http://www.christianveg.com/http://www.vegsoc.org.au/religion_encourage.asphttp://www.soystache.com/jesus.htm-latentdaeva--- In , Valerie Fjallstrom<vfjallstrom> wrote:> I was at work the other day and a man that works with me saidsomething along the lines of, "the bible says that god gave usdominion over animals, so how can you say that eating meat is wrong?".I'm not christian is what I told him to begin with, but my grandfatherwas a baptist minister before he passed away and I was pretty surethat there are versus in the bible about god giving all creaturesherbs and fruit

bearing trees to "be for meat". I told him that and helaughed at me and said he'd love me to show him where the bible saysit encourages vegetarianism, animal rights and the such. I found afew, Genesis 1:29-30, Romans 14:21 and Numbers 22:21-34, but I amhoping for a few experienced answers from some of you long timevegans, or maybe some verse that I don't know about or couldn't find.Thanks to everyone! Val> > > > > Mail - Easier than ever with enhanced search. Learn more.To send an email to -

[Guest guest]

This is a quote from an Animal Rights FAQ:

 

http://www.hedweb.com/arfaq/arpage.htm

Question 16: Doesn't the Bible give Humanity dominion over the animals?It is true that the Bible contains a passage that confers on humanitydominion over the animals. The import of this fact derives from theassumption that the Bible is the word of God, and that God is the ultimatemoral authority. Leaving aside for the moment consideration of the meaningof dominion, we can take issue with the idea of seeking moral authority fromthe Bible. First, there are serious problems with the interpretation ofBiblical passages, with many verses contradicting one another, and withmany scholars differing dramatically over the meaning of given verses.Second, there are many claims to God-hood among the diverse cultures ofthis world; some of these Gods implore us to respect all life and to notkill unnecessarily. Whose God are we to take as the ultimate moralauthority?

Finally, as Tom Regan observes, many people do not believe in a God andso appeals to His moral authority are empty for such people. For suchpeople, the validity of judgments of the supposed God must be cross-checkedwith other methods of determining reasonableness. What are the cross-checksfor the Biblical assertions?

These remarks apply equally to other assertions of Biblical approval ofhuman practices (such as the consumption of animals).Even if we accept that the God of the Bible is a moral authority, wecan point out that "dominion" is a vague term, meaning "stewardship" or"control over". It is quite easy to argue that appropriate stewardshipor control consists of respecting the life of animals and their rightto live according to their own nature. The jump from dominion to approvalof our brutal exploitation of animals is not contained in the citedBiblical passage, either explicitly or implicitly.DG

 

-

Valerie Fjallstrom

Monday, February 07, 2005 4:56 AM

Can anyone help?

 

I was at work the other day and a man that works with me said something along the lines of, "the bible says that god gave us dominion over animals, so how can you say that eating meat is wrong?". I'm not christian is what I told him to begin with, but my grandfather was a baptist minister before he passed away and I was pretty sure that there are versus in the bible about god giving all creatures herbs and fruit bearing trees to "be for meat". I told him that and he laughed at me and said he'd love me to show him where the bible says it encourages vegetarianism, animal rights and the such. I found a few, Genesis 1:29-30, Romans 14:21 and Numbers 22:21-34, but I am hoping for a few experienced answers from some of you long time vegans, or maybe some verse that I don't know about or couldn't find. Thanks to everyone! Val

 

 

Mail - Easier than ever with enhanced search. Learn more. To send an email to -

[Guest guest]

The bible is full of contradictions, and it could be used to defend

slavery and many other kinds of cruelty and oppression.

The following letter to Bush shows it clearly.

 

=======================================================

 

Dear President Bush,

 

 

Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. I have learned a great deal from you and understand why you would propose and support a constitutional amendment banning same sex marriage. As you said, in the eyes of God marriage is based between a man and a woman." I try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly state it to be an abomination... End of debate.

 

I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some other elements of God's Laws and how to follow them:

 

 

1. Leviticus 25:44 states that I may possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?

 

 

2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

 

 

3. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanness - Lev15: 19-24. The problem is how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense

 

 

4. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord - Lev.1:9. The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

 

 

5. I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself, or should I ask the police to do it?

 

 

6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination - Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this? Are there 'degrees' of abomination?

 

 

7. Lev.21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle-room here?

 

 

8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev.19:27. How should they die?

 

 

9. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

 

 

10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev.19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? Lev. 24:10-16.

 

Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair, like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)

 

I know you have studied these things extensively and thus enjoy considerable expertise in such matters, so I am confident you can help.

 

Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.

[Guest guest]

Thank you for your help!Hrvoje Nezic <hrvoje.nezic wrote:

 

This is a quote from an Animal Rights FAQ:

 

http://www.hedweb.com/arfaq/arpage.htm

Question 16: Doesn't the Bible give Humanity dominion over the animals?It is true that the Bible contains a passage that confers on humanitydominion over the animals. The import of this fact derives from theassumption that the Bible is the word of God, and that God is the ultimatemoral authority. Leaving aside for the moment consideration of the meaningof dominion, we can take issue with the idea of seeking moral authority fromthe Bible. First, there are serious problems with the interpretation ofBiblical passages, with many verses contradicting one another, and withmany scholars differing dramatically over the meaning of given verses.Second, there are many claims to God-hood among the diverse cultures ofthis world; some of these Gods implore us to respect all life and to notkill unnecessarily. Whose God are we to take as the ultimate moralauthority?

Finally, as Tom Regan observes, many people do not believe in a God andso appeals to His moral authority are empty for such people. For suchpeople, the validity of judgments of the supposed God must be cross-checkedwith other methods of determining reasonableness. What are the cross-checksfor the Biblical assertions?

These remarks apply equally to other assertions of Biblical approval ofhuman practices (such as the consumption of animals).Even if we accept that the God of the Bible is a moral authority, wecan point out that "dominion" is a vague term, meaning "stewardship" or"control over". It is quite easy to argue that appropriate stewardshipor control consists of respecting the life of animals and their rightto live according to their own nature. The jump from dominion to approvalof our brutal exploitation of animals is not contained in the citedBiblical passage, either explicitly or implicitly.DG

 

-

Valerie Fjallstrom

Monday, February 07, 2005 4:56 AM

Can anyone help?

 

I was at work the other day and a man that works with me said something along the lines of, "the bible says that god gave us dominion over animals, so how can you say that eating meat is wrong?". I'm not christian is what I told him to begin with, but my grandfather was a baptist minister before he passed away and I was pretty sure that there are versus in the bible about god giving all creatures herbs and fruit bearing trees to "be for meat". I told him that and he laughed at me and said he'd love me to show him where the bible says it encourages vegetarianism, animal rights and the such. I found a few, Genesis 1:29-30, Romans 14:21 and Numbers 22:21-34, but I am hoping for a few experienced answers from some of you long time vegans, or maybe some verse that I don't know about or couldn't find. Thanks to everyone! Val

 

 

Mail - Easier than ever with enhanced search. Learn more. To send an email to - To send an email to -

[Guest guest]

THE SONS OF GOD AND THE DAUGHTERS OF MEN. Notes from the Books of Ysrael.The Fallen Ones had such huge appetites that God rained manna upon them,of many different flavours, lest they might be tempted to eat flesh, aforbidden diet, and excuse the fault by pleading scarcity of corn andpot herbs. Nevertheless, the Fallen Ones rejected God's manna,slaughtered animals for food, and even dined on human flesh, thusfouling the air with sickly vapours. It was then that God decided tocleanse Earth

 

-

Valerie Fjallstrom

Monday, February 07, 2005 5:47 PM

Re: Can anyone help?

 

Thank you Fraggle, Nancy and Peter for your help! I have a lot more to work with now. Valeriefraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote:

i've been wondering about Simon....

 

http://www.beliefnet.com/story/126/story_12693_1.html

http://www.christianveg.com/wwje.htm-----Original Message----- metalscarab Feb 7, 2005 3:22 AM Re: Can anyone help? Hi ValI don't know if Simon is still on the list - if so, hopefully he will giveyou a good answer. If not, check the archives, because I know he hasposted some info on this sort of thing before.BBPeterTo send an email to - What you see is what you get

You've made your bed, you better lie in it

You choose your leaders and place your trust

As their lies wash you down and their promises rust

You'll see kidney machines replaced by rockets and guns

And the public wants what the public gets

But I don't get what this society wants

 

 

 

The all-new My – Get yours free! To send an email to -

[Guest guest]

Are the Books of Ysrael from the bible? Thank you for the notes, that's the best one I've seen yet!Jo Cwazy <heartwork wrote:

 

THE SONS OF GOD AND THE DAUGHTERS OF MEN. Notes from the Books of Ysrael.The Fallen Ones had such huge appetites that God rained manna upon them,of many different flavours, lest they might be tempted to eat flesh, aforbidden diet, and excuse the fault by pleading scarcity of corn andpot herbs. Nevertheless, the Fallen Ones rejected God's manna,slaughtered animals for food, and even dined on human flesh, thusfouling the air with sickly vapours. It was then that God decided tocleanse Earth

 

Search presents - Jib Jab's 'Second Term'

[Guest guest]

I'm not sure. I came across a site with

 

I think they are from writings that were before the bible - but I'm not sure.

 

Jo-

 

---- Original Message -----

Valerie Fjallstrom

Tuesday, February 08, 2005 9:37 PM

Re: Can anyone help?

 

Are the Books of Ysrael from the bible? Thank you for the notes, that's the best one I've seen yet!Jo Cwazy <heartwork wrote:

THE SONS OF GOD AND THE DAUGHTERS OF MEN. Notes from the Books of Ysrael.The Fallen Ones had such huge appetites that God rained manna upon them,of many different flavours, lest they might be tempted to eat flesh, aforbidden diet, and excuse the fault by pleading scarcity of corn andpot herbs. Nevertheless, the Fallen Ones rejected God's manna,slaughtered animals for food, and even dined on human flesh, thusfouling the air with sickly vapours. It was then that God decided tocleanse Earth

 

 

 

Search presents - Jib Jab's 'Second Term' To send an email to -

[Guest guest]

i beliieve they are apochraphal myths from the hebrew cycle Valerie Fjallstrom Feb 8, 2005 1:37 PM Re: Can anyone help?

Are the Books of Ysrael from the bible? Thank you for the notes, that's the best one I've seen yet!Jo Cwazy <heartwork wrote:

THE SONS OF GOD AND THE DAUGHTERS OF MEN. Notes from the Books of Ysrael.The Fallen Ones had such huge appetites that God rained manna upon them,of many different flavours, lest they might be tempted to eat flesh, aforbidden diet, and excuse the fault by pleading scarcity of corn andpot herbs. Nevertheless, the Fallen Ones rejected God's manna,slaughtered animals for food, and even dined on human flesh, thusfouling the air with sickly vapours. It was then that God decided tocleanse Earth

 

 

 

Search presents - Jib Jab's 'Second Term' To send an email to -

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

That's right. The reason I was unsure was that I had been following links in my lunchtime at work, and our servers went down. Why they can't go down in working time, I don't know!

 

Jo

 

-

fraggle

Tuesday, February 08, 2005 10:08 PM

Re: Can anyone help?

 

i beliieve they are apochraphal myths from the hebrew cycle Valerie Fjallstrom Feb 8, 2005 1:37 PM Re: Can anyone help?

Are the Books of Ysrael from the bible? Thank you for the notes, that's the best one I've seen yet!Jo Cwazy <heartwork wrote:

THE SONS OF GOD AND THE DAUGHTERS OF MEN. Notes from the Books of Ysrael.The Fallen Ones had such huge appetites that God rained manna upon them,of many different flavours, lest they might be tempted to eat flesh, aforbidden diet, and excuse the fault by pleading scarcity of corn andpot herbs. Nevertheless, the Fallen Ones rejected God's manna,slaughtered animals for food, and even dined on human flesh, thusfouling the air with sickly vapours. It was then that God decided tocleanse Earth

 

 

 

Search presents - Jib Jab's 'Second Term' To send an email to -

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

> i beliieve they are apochraphal myths from the hebrew cycle

 

That sounds about right. The style of writing is very much in the vein of "Legends of The Jews" compiled by Louis Ginsberg.

 

BB

Peter

[Guest guest]

On Sun, 6 Feb 2005, fraggle wrote:

 

> it depends on the translation of the word *dominion*, in the original

> greek and arimaic

 

Actually the original is in Hebrew.... :-)

 

Jim Sinclair jisincla

[Guest guest]

Try this one too:

 

http://www.jewishveg.com/schwartz/

 

 

On Tue, 8 Feb 2005, Jamie wrote:

 

>

>

> Here are a few sites that may be of help.

>

> http://www.christianveg.com/

> http://www.vegsoc.org.au/religion_encourage.asp

> http://www.soystache.com/jesus.htm

>

[Guest guest]

I just got a book recently, the history of jewish vegetarianism Jim Sinclair Feb 10, 2005 11:56 AM Re: Re: Can anyone help? Try this one too:http://www.jewishveg.com/schwartz/On Tue, 8 Feb 2005, Jamie wrote:>>> Here are a few sites that may be of help.>> http://www.christianveg.com/> http://www.vegsoc.org.au/religion_encourage.asp> http://www.soystache.com/jesus.htm>To send an email to -