Guest guest Posted March 8, 2005 Report Share Posted March 8, 2005 All three of my dogs, and all three of my mother's dogs which she got from me, and all seven of the cats currently under my care (two of whom need new homes because they don't like dogs)--and all of the several dozen dogs and cats who have lived with me since I was two years old--have either been adopted from animal shelters, or picked up directly off the streets, or taken in when the people who had them before didn't want them anymore. In all the cases where I (or my parents, when I was a kid) adopted them directly from the people who had them before, there was uncontrolled breeding of un-neutered animals involved in their needing new homes. My family has never purchased any dog or cat from a breeder or pet shop. In fact, of the ten animals I have right now, there's only one of them that I actually got by going *anywhere* (in my case, to an animal shelter, not a pet store) with the intention of adopting an animal. The rest are with me because I saw a need and intervened to help, even though I didn't " want " another dog or cat. Two of my dogs and I once spent months visiting one of several dogs at our local shelter who had been rescued in a puppy mill raid. This one dog was deemed by the shelter staff to be too " crazy " to be adopted. They told me that as soon as the court case was over and the shelter had custody of the dogs, she would have to be euthanized because she could never be socialized. I took my own dogs to the shelter several times a week during the months that the animal cruelty case was winding its way through the system, and we rehabilitated that dog. By the time the puppy mill owners were convicted and the rescued dogs remanded to the custody of the various shelters they'd been farmed out to, that dog was no longer considered " crazy, " and was placed in a loving new home--with the stipulation that she be spayed, of course. I don't need to be lectured to about the evils of puppy mills. I saw the survivors from that raid. Mandatory spaying and neutering is one strategy to prevent backyard breeders from running puppy mills. I have taken in a few homeless cats that were pregnant, and that meant I had to find homes not only for the mother cats, but for the kittens too. At least for those kittens that survived--one cat was so malnourished and sick that four of her five kittens died. Two of them died right away, and after a couple of days I had to take the bodies away from the grieving mother because they were starting to decompose. The other two held on long enough to incur some vet bills, which I paid, in an effort to save them. And I kept vigil with them when they were dying, and I buried them when they were dead. One of my current foster cats was nursing kittens when I took her in. She spent months going into heat every few weeks, which was miserable both for her and for me. Yes, I did " impose my will " on her by refusing to let her go outside and mate and have more kittens. To do so would, as far as I'm concerned, have been criminally irresponsible. Eventually, when the kittens were weaned and when I finally resigned myself to the fact that the family who had abandoned her was not, despite their promises, going to either come back to get her or send money for her care, I went ahead and had her spayed. She certainly seems to be much happier now that she's not in heat all the time. By the way, I am disabled and live on Supplemental Security Income, food stamps, and in subsidized housing. Paying out of my own pocket to have an animal spayed or neutered is not something I can really afford. I wouldn't do it if I didn't think the alternative was far worse for the animals. Just feeding all of them (vegan cat and dog food, of course) takes nearly 100% of my " disposable " income (not to mention a good deal of time making Vegecat food for the seven cats). I don't think I deserve to be criticized for preventing the animals in my care from adding to the overpopulation problem. I am really flabbergasted to see people who say they care about animals, disputing whether or not companion animals should be spayed or neutered. Really. Is there *any* serious animal rights organization that does *not* advocate spaying and neutering as being in the best interests of the animals?! Maybe I'm in the wrong group here. Is there a group for *realistic* vegans, who are doing the best they can in the real world that we actually live in?? Jim Sinclair jisincla Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 8, 2005 Report Share Posted March 8, 2005 whoa there... sorry..i haven't been online all weekend really and have missed this entire thread.. but..hey..lets all take a lil breather..sit back...rub our toes on the carpet here *hands out cookies* now..again..haven't been reading this thread..so forgive me... but... everyone is vegan fer different reasons.... there is no boiler plate reason..you don't get a handbook of rules and regulations when you decide "i'm going vegan"..and if there was. a. no one told me about it b. i'm horrible at following the rules... you should see that bookcase i built anyways how bout before we all get ourselves worked into a fuming lather we take a step back...k? we be all different..and gettin pissed off at one another isn't gonna do diddily squat neither is name calling er anything like that. and besides, you all have to be like me anyways, er else yer all doodieheads wahahahahahahahahah one of fraggle one of fraggle.... cheers fraggle I am really flabbergasted to see people who say they care about animals,disputing whether or not companion animals should be spayed or neutered.Really. Is there *any* serious animal rights organization that does *not*advocate spaying and neutering as being in the best interests of theanimals?! Maybe I'm in the wrong group here. Is there a group for*realistic* vegans, who are doing the best they can in the real world thatwe actually live in??Jim Sinclair jisinclaTo send an email to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 8, 2005 Report Share Posted March 8, 2005 nice, fraggle. and thanks for the cookie. fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote: whoa there... sorry..i haven't been online all weekend really and have missed this entire thread.. but..hey..lets all take a lil breather..sit back...rub our toes on the carpet here *hands out cookies* now..again..haven't been reading this thread..so forgive me... but... everyone is vegan fer different reasons.... there is no boiler plate reason..you don't get a handbook of rules and regulations when you decide "i'm going vegan"..and if there was. a. no one told me about it b. i'm horrible at following the rules... you should see that bookcase i built anyways how bout before we all get ourselves worked into a fuming lather we take a step back...k? we be all different..and gettin pissed off at one another isn't gonna do diddily squat neither is name calling er anything like that. and besides, you all have to be like me anyways, er else yer all doodieheads wahahahahahahahahah one of fraggle one of fraggle.... cheers fraggle I am really flabbergasted to see people who say they care about animals,disputing whether or not companion animals should be spayed or neutered.Really. Is there *any* serious animal rights organization that does *not*advocate spaying and neutering as being in the best interests of theanimals?! Maybe I'm in the wrong group here. Is there a group for*realistic* vegans, who are doing the best they can in the real world thatwe actually live in??Jim Sinclair jisinclaTo send an email to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 8, 2005 Report Share Posted March 8, 2005 Please don't be flabbergasted - just enjoy the discussion. Everybody has different points of view, and some, like me, often like to put in an alternative point of view to aid the discussion on it's way. I don't think there is any need to get upset. Incidentally, I think all the vegans here are real. Jo > I am really flabbergasted to see people who say they care about animals, > disputing whether or not companion animals should be spayed or neutered. > Really. Is there *any* serious animal rights organization that does *not* > advocate spaying and neutering as being in the best interests of the > animals?! Maybe I'm in the wrong group here. Is there a group for > *realistic* vegans, who are doing the best they can in the real world that > we actually live in?? > > Jim Sinclair jisincla@m... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 8, 2005 Report Share Posted March 8, 2005 i'm actually nauagavegan.... heartwerk Mar 8, 2005 12:16 AM Re: Neutering Incidentally, I think all the vegans here are real.Jo What you see is what you get You've made your bed, you better lie in it You choose your leaders and place your trust As their lies wash you down and their promises rust You'll see kidney machines replaced by rockets and guns And the public wants what the public gets But I don't get what this society wants Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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