Guest guest Posted March 8, 2005 Report Share Posted March 8, 2005 Manuscripts 'treated as fossils' By Julianna Kettlewell BBC News science reporter A palaeontologist has come up with a novel way of studying historical manuscripts, by treating them as fossils from an extinct species. John Cisne, writing in Science magazine, says manuscripts from the Middle Ages have a lot in common with animal populations. For this reason, he claims, he can work out how many copies of a manuscript once existed and how regularly they were destroyed, simply by applying a biological model. Ancient texts An ancient text can tell a historian fascinating stories about the people and the culture that created it. But there are some secrets that are not written on its pages. For example, it is tricky for historians to work out how prevalent a particular text was, and how many didn't make it through the perils of time. It is with these problems that John Cisne, from Cornell University, US, believes he can help. He took a small number of medieval scientific manuscripts, such as Bede's De Temporum Ratione from AD 725, and examined them as if they were fossils from an extinct population. By applying models usually used for explaining population dynamics in the animal kingdom, he says he can estimate the size and durability of an extinct " population " of manuscripts. In very simplistic terms, he would take some copies of a manuscript and work out their age range (for example, 10 might have been from AD 800, five might have been from AD 750, and one might have been from AD 700). From that information, he would determine how many manuscripts were probably around at any one time, what their rate of " population growth " was and how often they were destroyed. " By using this technique, you can get at the likelihood of a manuscript being destroyed - how likely it was that it would be burned in a fire or eaten by rats, " he told the BBC News website. " When you look at the age distribution of the manuscripts - how many survived from which century - you can get an idea of the balance between the likelihood of a manuscript being copied - or 'reproducing' - versus the probability of the individual being destroyed - or 'dying'. " Prototype approach Dr Cisne knows he is wading into foreign waters; it is very unusual for academics to stray into other academics' territories. And it is particularly rare when that crossover is between the arts and the sciences. " I've always specialised in the nooks and crannies between disciplines, " he said. " I just got interested in what proportion of manuscripts would survive to the present. I wanted to know how good our connection is with the past. " Dr Cisne does not claim his technique perfect - it still needs some polish. He would like to see it as a prototype, a suggested avenue for further research. Some historians might be indignant at this bold intrusion into their field, but others, like Eliza Glaze, are willing to give Dr Cisne a chance. " Having a visual population chart relating to a text can be extremely helpful when explaining to students what cultural factors led to the changes, " Dr Glaze said. " It's a peculiarity and at first I thought it was very bizarre, but sometimes some of the most innovative ideas come from people outside the field. " However, Dr Glaze is keen to point out what she regards as some pretty major difficulties in Dr Cisne's technique. In order to apply a mathematical model to something, you need to make certain assumptions; and Dr Glaze believes some of Dr Cisne's are wrong. For example, she objects to his assumption that none of the texts were being imported from, or exported to, other countries. " My chief criticism is probably that some of his assumptions are flawed, " she said. " The assumption that there was no immigration or emigration of texts is a serious problem if you are talking about the Middle Ages. " If he had teamed up with a historian in the first place, he could have written a much better essay. " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 8, 2005 Report Share Posted March 8, 2005 I can't help thinking that he's missed the fact that manuscripts have a tendency not to follow the same breeding patterns as animals! :-) BB Peter > > > Manuscripts 'treated as fossils' > > By Julianna Kettlewell > BBC News science reporter > > A palaeontologist has come up with a novel way of studying historical > manuscripts, by treating them as fossils from an extinct species. > John Cisne, writing in Science magazine, says manuscripts from the > Middle Ages have a lot in common with animal populations. > For this reason, he claims, he can work out how many copies of a > manuscript once existed and how regularly they were destroyed, simply > by applying a biological model. > Ancient texts > An ancient text can tell a historian fascinating stories about the > people and the culture that created it. > But there are some secrets that are not written on its pages. For > example, it is tricky for historians to work out how prevalent a > particular text was, and how many didn't make it through the perils > of time. > It is with these problems that John Cisne, from Cornell University, > US, believes he can help. > He took a small number of medieval scientific manuscripts, such as > Bede's De Temporum Ratione from AD 725, and examined them as if they > were fossils from an extinct population. > By applying models usually used for explaining population dynamics in > the animal kingdom, he says he can estimate the size and durability > of an extinct " population " of manuscripts. > In very simplistic terms, he would take some copies of a manuscript > and work out their age range (for example, 10 might have been from AD > 800, five might have been from AD 750, and one might have been from > AD 700). > From that information, he would determine how many manuscripts were > probably around at any one time, what their rate of " population > growth " was and how often they were destroyed. > " By using this technique, you can get at the likelihood of a > manuscript being destroyed - how likely it was that it would be > burned in a fire or eaten by rats, " he told the BBC News website. > " When you look at the age distribution of the manuscripts - how many > survived from which century - you can get an idea of the balance > between the likelihood of a manuscript being copied - > or 'reproducing' - versus the probability of the individual being > destroyed - or 'dying'. " > Prototype approach > Dr Cisne knows he is wading into foreign waters; it is very unusual > for academics to stray into other academics' territories. And it is > particularly rare when that crossover is between the arts and the > sciences. > " I've always specialised in the nooks and crannies between > disciplines, " he said. " I just got interested in what proportion of > manuscripts would survive to the present. I wanted to know how good > our connection is with the past. " > Dr Cisne does not claim his technique perfect - it still needs some > polish. He would like to see it as a prototype, a suggested avenue > for further research. > Some historians might be indignant at this bold intrusion into their > field, but others, like Eliza Glaze, are willing to give Dr Cisne a > chance. > " Having a visual population chart relating to a text can be extremely > helpful when explaining to students what cultural factors led to the > changes, " Dr Glaze said. > " It's a peculiarity and at first I thought it was very bizarre, but > sometimes some of the most innovative ideas come from people outside > the field. " > However, Dr Glaze is keen to point out what she regards as some > pretty major difficulties in Dr Cisne's technique. > In order to apply a mathematical model to something, you need to make > certain assumptions; and Dr Glaze believes some of Dr Cisne's are > wrong. > For example, she objects to his assumption that none of the texts > were being imported from, or exported to, other countries. > " My chief criticism is probably that some of his assumptions are > flawed, " she said. " The assumption that there was no immigration or > emigration of texts is a serious problem if you are talking about the > Middle Ages. > " If he had teamed up with a historian in the first place, he could > have written a much better essay. " > To send an email to - > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 8, 2005 Report Share Posted March 8, 2005 That was what I thought! It seems a strange article altogether. BB Jo > I can't help thinking that he's missed the fact that manuscripts have a > tendency not to follow the same breeding patterns as animals! :-) > > BB > Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 8, 2005 Report Share Posted March 8, 2005 Well, neuter the blooming things and he won't have to worry about it <<eg>> Lynda - Peter Tuesday, March 08, 2005 10:18 AM Re: Manuscripts! - BBC website I can't help thinking that he's missed the fact that manuscripts have atendency not to follow the same breeding patterns as animals! :-)BBPeter>>> Manuscripts 'treated as fossils'>> By Julianna Kettlewell> BBC News science reporter>> A palaeontologist has come up with a novel way of studying historical> manuscripts, by treating them as fossils from an extinct species.> John Cisne, writing in Science magazine, says manuscripts from the> Middle Ages have a lot in common with animal populations.> For this reason, he claims, he can work out how many copies of a> manuscript once existed and how regularly they were destroyed, simply> by applying a biological model.> Ancient texts> An ancient text can tell a historian fascinating stories about the> people and the culture that created it.> But there are some secrets that are not written on its pages. For> example, it is tricky for historians to work out how prevalent a> particular text was, and how many didn't make it through the perils> of time.> It is with these problems that John Cisne, from Cornell University,> US, believes he can help.> He took a small number of medieval scientific manuscripts, such as> Bede's De Temporum Ratione from AD 725, and examined them as if they> were fossils from an extinct population.> By applying models usually used for explaining population dynamics in> the animal kingdom, he says he can estimate the size and durability> of an extinct "population" of manuscripts.> In very simplistic terms, he would take some copies of a manuscript> and work out their age range (for example, 10 might have been from AD> 800, five might have been from AD 750, and one might have been from> AD 700).> From that information, he would determine how many manuscripts were> probably around at any one time, what their rate of "population> growth" was and how often they were destroyed.> "By using this technique, you can get at the likelihood of a> manuscript being destroyed - how likely it was that it would be> burned in a fire or eaten by rats," he told the BBC News website.> "When you look at the age distribution of the manuscripts - how many> survived from which century - you can get an idea of the balance> between the likelihood of a manuscript being copied -> or 'reproducing' - versus the probability of the individual being> destroyed - or 'dying'."> Prototype approach> Dr Cisne knows he is wading into foreign waters; it is very unusual> for academics to stray into other academics' territories. And it is> particularly rare when that crossover is between the arts and the> sciences.> "I've always specialised in the nooks and crannies between> disciplines," he said. "I just got interested in what proportion of> manuscripts would survive to the present. I wanted to know how good> our connection is with the past."> Dr Cisne does not claim his technique perfect - it still needs some> polish. He would like to see it as a prototype, a suggested avenue> for further research.> Some historians might be indignant at this bold intrusion into their> field, but others, like Eliza Glaze, are willing to give Dr Cisne a> chance.> "Having a visual population chart relating to a text can be extremely> helpful when explaining to students what cultural factors led to the> changes," Dr Glaze said.> "It's a peculiarity and at first I thought it was very bizarre, but> sometimes some of the most innovative ideas come from people outside> the field."> However, Dr Glaze is keen to point out what she regards as some> pretty major difficulties in Dr Cisne's technique.> In order to apply a mathematical model to something, you need to make> certain assumptions; and Dr Glaze believes some of Dr Cisne's are> wrong.> For example, she objects to his assumption that none of the texts> were being imported from, or exported to, other countries.> "My chief criticism is probably that some of his assumptions are> flawed," she said. "The assumption that there was no immigration or> emigration of texts is a serious problem if you are talking about the> Middle Ages.> "If he had teamed up with a historian in the first place, he could> have written a much better essay.">>>>>>>> To send an email to - > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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