Guest guest Posted April 28, 2005 Report Share Posted April 28, 2005 Doctors attack 'smoke ban myths' No ban is an infringement of a non smoker's right, doctors say Opponents of a smoking ban are " peddling myths " to prevent its introduction, doctors say. The British Medical Association has published a report which it says proves why a ban would work. It counters claims a ban would infringe choice, not have public backing, damage the economy, be unenforceable and was not based on medical evidence. But pro-smoking groups and the industry maintained the risks of passive smoking were still not proven. BMA chairman James Johnson said: " The medical profession is united in its call for a UK-wide ban on smoking in all enclosed public places and workplaces. " The true cost of delaying legislation is not financial, it is human. " Smoke-free Last autumn the government proposed a smoking ban in public places as part of its Public Health White Paper, but the plan exempted pubs where food is not served. We must keep constantly in mind that the 'evidence' on passive smoking is based on nothing more substantial than estimates, guesswork, subjective recollections and even gossip Lord Harris, president of Forest The Tories have proposed introducing a voluntary code with the hospitality industry, except in places where children are allowed which should be smoke-free, while the Liberal Democrats are in favour of an outright ban. The report, Behind the Smokescreen, said critics have claimed a ban would be an infringement of freedom, but under the current system non- smokers - 70% of the population - were denied the freedom to go about their lives in smoke-free environments. It also said that, despite suggestions to the contrary, there was considerable evidence in favour of a ban. And the paper argued that medical evidence showed that passive smoking was harmful, citing a World Health Organisation study which found inhaling other people's smoke increased the risk of lung cancer and heart disease. Another allegation is that a smoking ban results in more smoking in the home, but this had not proved to be the case in Ireland following the introduction of its ban, the report said. The doctors also said a smoking ban encourages people to give up the habit. Argument Finally, the report challenged the argument that a ban would cost thousands of jobs in the hospitality and brewery industries. But Lord Harris, president of the smokers' lobby group Forest, said a ban would be understandable if there was incontrovertible scientific evidence of harm to others. He added: " This is very far from the truth. " The truth is that the dozens of studies conducted around the world over the past 25 years fail spectacularly to yield any reliably stable, uniform or statistically significant link between lifetime exposure to environmental tobacco smoke and lung cancer in non- smokers. " We must keep constantly in mind that the 'evidence' on passive smoking is based on nothing more substantial than estimates, guesswork, subjective recollections and even gossip. " And Chris Ogden, director of trade and industry affairs at the Tobacco Manufacturer's Association, said there should be designated smoking areas to keep smokers and non-smokers separate. And he said the research on passive smoking was " statistical, not medical " . Ian Wilmore, public affairs manager of anti-smoking group Ash, compared the right of a smoker to smoke in public to the right of a motorist to drive at 50mph in a residential area. " It is a conflict of rights. The most overwhelming right lies with the non smoker. " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 29, 2005 Report Share Posted April 29, 2005 I think the same applies in Sweden (or was it Norway!) Jo , " Lynda " <lurine@s...> wrote: > The State of California has the 5th largest economy in the world. We have a > ban on smoking and it didn't hurt the economy at all. No bars closed, booze > sales didn't drop, no one lost their jobs. > > Seems you guys have the same old ol' boys telling the same lies on your side > of the pond! > > Lynda > - > heartwerk <heartwork@c...> > > > Finally, the report challenged the argument that a ban would cost > > thousands of jobs in the hospitality and brewery industries. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 2, 2005 Report Share Posted May 2, 2005 I can tell you, I go out to more bars and spend more money when I am in California than here. It is so wonderful to be able to breath indoors and not have your hair and clothes reek! sara , " Lynda " <lurine@s...> wrote: > The State of California has the 5th largest economy in the world. We have a > ban on smoking and it didn't hurt the economy at all. No bars closed, booze > sales didn't drop, no one lost their jobs. > > Seems you guys have the same old ol' boys telling the same lies on your side > of the pond! > > Lynda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 2, 2005 Report Share Posted May 2, 2005 wot bars do you go to where they don't smoke? even tho its been a law fer a number of years now..i can think of, oh, two bars, where its enforced.... both are in SF..... i can't think of a single bar in oakland where its paid any mind at all.... sara May 2, 2005 2:44 PM Re: From BBC website I can tell you, I go out to more bars and spend more money when I am in California than here. It is so wonderful to be able to breath indoors and not have your hair and clothes reek!sara , "Lynda" <lurine@s...> wrote:> The State of California has the 5th largest economy in the world. We have a> ban on smoking and it didn't hurt the economy at all. No bars closed, booze> sales didn't drop, no one lost their jobs.> > Seems you guys have the same old ol' boys telling the same lies on your side> of the pond!> > LyndaTo send an email to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 2, 2005 Report Share Posted May 2, 2005 Mostly, this was going out in Ventura (my ex lives there) and then some random, smallish towns where the cops probably don't have much else to do... , fraggle <EBbrewpunx@e...> wrote: > wot bars do you go to where they don't smoke? even tho its been a law fer a number of years now..i can think of, oh, two bars, where its enforced.... both are in SF..... i can't think of a single bar in oakland where its paid any mind at all.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 2, 2005 Report Share Posted May 2, 2005 i guess that makes sense.... sara May 2, 2005 3:24 PM Re: From BBC website Mostly, this was going out in Ventura (my ex lives there) and then some random, smallish towns where the cops probably don't have much else to do... , fraggle <EBbrewpunx@e...> wrote:> wot bars do you go to where they don't smoke?even tho its been a law fer a number of years now..i can think of, oh, two bars, where its enforced....both are in SF.....i can't think of a single bar in oakland where its paid any mind at all....To send an email to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 2, 2005 Report Share Posted May 2, 2005 My experience made me think it was like this all over California. Guess I was wrong, but it can't be worse than Nevada, with the highest smoking rate of any state in the country (or so I have heard). sara , fraggle <EBbrewpunx@e...> wrote: > i guess that makes sense.... Mostly, this was going out in Ventura (my ex lives there) and then some random, smallish towns where the cops probably don't have much else to do... , fraggle <EBbrewpunx@e...> wrote: > wot bars do you go to where they don't smoke? even tho its been a law fer a number of years now..i can think of, oh, two bars, where its enforced.... both are in SF..... i can't think of a single bar in oakland where its paid any mind at all.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 3, 2005 Report Share Posted May 3, 2005 no, prolly not when i use to have to go to vegas for conventions, i'd forget EVERY time how bad it is there..until i stepped off the plane but..on the a similar note...i'm a bit of an abberation as i'd say over 80% of my friends/aquaintances smoke sara May 2, 2005 3:45 PM Re: From BBC website My experience made me think it was like this all over California. Guess I was wrong, but it can't be worse than Nevada, with the highest smoking rate of any state in the country (or so I have heard).sara , fraggle <EBbrewpunx@e...> wrote:> i guess that makes sense.... Mostly, this was going out in Ventura (my ex lives there) and then some random, smallish towns where the cops probably don't have much else to do... , fraggle <EBbrewpunx@e...> wrote:> wot bars do you go to where they don't smoke?even tho its been a law fer a number of years now..i can think of, oh, two bars, where its enforced....both are in SF.....i can't think of a single bar in oakland where its paid any mind at all....To send an email to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 3, 2005 Report Share Posted May 3, 2005 In San Diego, no bars have smoking inside. Many have smoking patios outside. serene -- " A conservative is someone who worships the views of dead liberals. " -- The Holy Church of Happy Good Times Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 3, 2005 Report Share Posted May 3, 2005 And I'm the opposite kind of abberation. Almost everyone I know is in biology, ecology or a similar field, and none smoke. I have only 3 friends who smoke. I prob know the only people living in Las Vegas who don't. , fraggle <EBbrewpunx@e...> wrote: > no, prolly not when i use to have to go to vegas for conventions, i'd forget EVERY time how bad it is there..until i stepped off the plane but..on the a similar note...i'm a bit of an abberation as i'd say over 80% of my friends/aquaintances smoke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 3, 2005 Report Share Posted May 3, 2005 san diego is like another state and, as we drag this subject further along ...i've been to bars in SD where folks were smoking..crowbar, brickhouse, and some dive in mira mar... *shrug* it has a lot to do with clientelle and whether the owner/wait staff want to enforce it "serene (Sandra Vannoy)" May 2, 2005 4:12 PM Re: Re: From BBC website In San Diego, no bars have smoking inside. Many have smoking patios outside.serene-- "A conservative is someone who worships the views of dead liberals." -- The Holy Church of Happy Good TimesTo send an email to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 3, 2005 Report Share Posted May 3, 2005 yer lucky.... sara May 2, 2005 4:28 PM Re: From BBC website And I'm the opposite kind of abberation. Almost everyone I know is in biology, ecology or a similar field, and none smoke. I have only 3 friends who smoke. I prob know the only people living in Las Vegas who don't. And Bugs Bunny is a friend of mine Eating him I'd feel like Frankenstein Eating flesh seems pretty foul to me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 3, 2005 Report Share Posted May 3, 2005 All the bars and restaurant/bars we've been to in SF and Bezerkley have all enforced it. I'm really surprised that ol' Jerry of the Birkenstocks hasn't been out there supervising the bars himself in Oakland <g> Now, ol' Willie is a whole other story! Lynda - fraggle Monday, May 02, 2005 2:59 PM Re: Re: From BBC website wot bars do you go to where they don't smoke? even tho its been a law fer a number of years now..i can think of, oh, two bars, where its enforced.... both are in SF..... i can't think of a single bar in oakland where its paid any mind at all.... sara May 2, 2005 2:44 PM Re: From BBC website I can tell you, I go out to more bars and spend more money when I am in California than here. It is so wonderful to be able to breath indoors and not have your hair and clothes reek!sara , "Lynda" <lurine@s...> wrote:> The State of California has the 5th largest economy in the world. We have a> ban on smoking and it didn't hurt the economy at all. No bars closed, booze> sales didn't drop, no one lost their jobs.> > Seems you guys have the same old ol' boys telling the same lies on your side> of the pond!> > LyndaTo uns ubscribe send an email to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 3, 2005 Report Share Posted May 3, 2005 It is in most of CA, Sara. And you are right about Nevada. Eldest son went there a couple of months ago and said he could wait to get back so he could breath. My sister lives in Vegas and is always complaining about colds and coughing and she doesn't even work the casino floors, she works in the office (no one smokes in the office) but she says that by the end of the day it reeks because of the people wandering in and out. Lynda - sara <gagrip5 Monday, May 02, 2005 3:45 PM Re: From BBC website > My experience made me think it was like this all over California. > Guess I was wrong, but it can't be worse than Nevada, with the highest > smoking rate of any state in the country (or so I have heard). > sara > > , fraggle <EBbrewpunx@e...> wrote: > > i guess that makes sense.... > > > > > Mostly, this was going out in Ventura (my ex lives there) and then > some random, smallish towns where the cops probably don't have much > else to do... > > , fraggle <EBbrewpunx@e...> wrote: > > wot bars do you go to where they don't smoke? > even tho its been a law fer a number of years now..i can think of, oh, > two bars, where its enforced.... > both are in SF..... > i can't think of a single bar in oakland where its paid any mind at > all.... To send an email to - > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 3, 2005 Report Share Posted May 3, 2005 You'll have to explain the language to me Fraggle, please. Jo , fraggle <EBbrewpunx@e...> wrote: > where folks were smoking..crowbar, brickhouse, and some dive in mira mar... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 3, 2005 Report Share Posted May 3, 2005 hmmm??? sorry....just naming places in San diego where i know folks where smoking inside..sorry...kinda going off on a tangent... smoking is illegal in california bars(and any public bldg)..but my point was its all up to the bar owner/wait staff and clientelle if they actually enforce the ruling... i guess its the circle of friends/part of society i travel thru...most ppl i know smoke... i'm an abberation woohoo! heartwerk May 2, 2005 11:38 PM Re: From BBC website You'll have to explain the language to me Fraggle, please.Jo , fraggle <EBbrewpunx@e...> wrote:> where folks were smoking..crowbar, brickhouse, and some dive in mira mar...To send an email to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 3, 2005 Report Share Posted May 3, 2005 willie is old news...Newsom been there fer a year....(mayor of SF) and, Jerry Brown (mayor of oakland) will do anything fer money nowadays....like i said..its all in where you go and what the clientelle is like..... Lynda May 2, 2005 8:18 PM Re: Re: From BBC website All the bars and restaurant/bars we've been to in SF and Bezerkley have all enforced it. I'm really surprised that ol' Jerry of the Birkenstocks hasn't been out there supervising the bars himself in Oakland <g> Now, ol' Willie is a whole other story! Lynda - fraggle Monday, May 02, 2005 2:59 PM Re: Re: From BBC website wot bars do you go to where they don't smoke? even tho its been a law fer a number of years now..i can think of, oh, two bars, where its enforced.... both are in SF..... i can't think of a single bar in oakland where its paid any mind at all.... sara May 2, 2005 2:44 PM Re: From BBC website I can tell you, I go out to more bars and spend more money when I am in California than here. It is so wonderful to be able to breath indoors and not have your hair and clothes reek!sara , "Lynda" <lurine@s...> wrote:> The State of California has the 5th largest economy in the world. We have a> ban on smoking and it didn't hurt the economy at all. No bars closed, booze> sales didn't drop, no one lost their jobs.> > Seems you guys have the same old ol' boys telling the same lies on your side> of the pond!> > LyndaTo uns ubscribe send an email to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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