Guest guest Posted April 30, 2005 Report Share Posted April 30, 2005 When I look around at my society and realise how rare a vegan diet is, I get really pissed. I look at a fat person and think, "If only they were vegan, then they wouldn't be overweight." I see so many people complaining of common ailments and I'm totally convinced that veganism is the solution. I'm starting to get people really mad by continually enforcing my vegan beliefs which I feel so strongly about. It drives me crazy when I think of the vast array of global problems that could be solved if we would all adopt a vegan diet. Apparently peoples' taste buds are more important than our environment. And taste is relative. What is wrong with people? I admit that my thoughts are irrational, and I know that it's crazy to think that the whole world will go vegan. But I also know that adopting a vegan diet isn't nearly as difficult as the world thinks. I'm angry at meat eaters, not personally, but as a whole. I don't want to be angry. What do you do? JeffPost your free ad now! Canada Personals Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 30, 2005 Report Share Posted April 30, 2005 , Jeff Devine <jeffdevine8> wrote: > When I look around at my society and realise how rare a vegan diet is, I get really pissed. I look at a fat person and think, " If only they were vegan, then they wouldn't be overweight. " I see so many people complaining of common ailments and I'm totally convinced that veganism is the solution. > > I'm starting to get people really mad by continually enforcing my vegan beliefs which I feel so strongly about. It drives me crazy when I think of the vast array of global problems that could be solved if we would all adopt a vegan diet. Apparently peoples' taste buds are more important than our environment. And taste is relative. What is wrong with people? > > I admit that my thoughts are irrational, and I know that it's crazy to think that the whole world will go vegan. But I also know that adopting a vegan diet isn't nearly as difficult as the world thinks. > > I'm angry at meat eaters, not personally, but as a whole. I don't want to be angry. What do you do? > > Jeff > Veganism is fairly recent. Meat eating has been going on for Centuries. With understanding and kindness there will be change. Being patient helps. Rather than counting failures, count the successes of the Vegan Philosophy. It is quite significant. In regards to big goals, such as a significant number of people going Vegan, expecting quick results will lead to sure disappointment. Do your best for the cause and let the results take care of themselves. In a local magazine article on employment, Butchers were featured to be in great demand. Cutting the meat and removing the bones was described as manly. Vijay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 30, 2005 Report Share Posted April 30, 2005 Jeff, Chill out a bit, I guess that you havent been vegan for that long? Obese people can be vegan, it is not only carnivores that put on weight. Tyring to enforce your beliefs on anyone or anything, is not something that I would condone. Leading by example is, and offering advice where asked is also a good idea.Passive resistance can achieve some good results. While we ( vegans) all have concerns about the state of the world, and are regularly dismayed by the things people do to their own bodies, all I can suggest is that you be the best person that you can be, and stay true to your beliefs. The Valley Vegan...............Jeff Devine <jeffdevine8 wrote: When I look around at my society and realise how rare a vegan diet is, I get really pissed. I look at a fat person and think, "If only they were vegan, then they wouldn't be overweight." I see so many people complaining of common ailments and I'm totally convinced that veganism is the solution. I'm starting to get people really mad by continually enforcing my vegan beliefs which I feel so strongly about. It drives me crazy when I think of the vast array of global problems that could be solved if we would all adopt a vegan diet. Apparently peoples' taste buds are more important than our environment. And taste is relative. What is wrong with people? I admit that my thoughts are irrational, and I know that it's crazy to think that the whole world will go vegan. But I also know that adopting a vegan diet isn't nearly as difficult as the world thinks. I'm angry at meat eaters, not personally, but as a whole. I don't want to be angry. What do you do? Jeff Post your free ad now! Canada PersonalsTo send an email to - Peter H Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 30, 2005 Report Share Posted April 30, 2005 > I look at a fat person and think, "If only they were vegan, then they wouldn't be overweight." Well, then I hate to inform you that you are totally mistaken. I've been a vegan for almost 15 years and guess what? I'm overweight. I got stressed out over a serious problem in my marriage top it off with my courses at school combined with teaching and being a mother which lead to me getting lazy and overwhelmed with life. I started eating a lot of pre-packaged foods and combine that with little exercise and I woke up one morning 30 pounds heavier than I remember. I guess it was better than jumping off a bridge. Either way, I also hate to break it to you, I'm not the only overweight vegan in the world. When meat eaters or ovo-lacto vegetarians think of "vegan" they think of these heroin waif small people. It really bothers me that even so-called vegans can have this same screwed up image in their head that every vegan is slim and out hiking every day. Regarding the actual point of your email.. "how do I cope"? I have long since given up screaming from a soapbox about the perils of eating meat. If a friend asks me, I will talk to them about it; but, just as I have the right to chose to be a vegan, other people have the right to chose to eat meat. Being a non-Christian it annoys the crap out of me when people corner me at the supermarket or other stores to preach to me about Christ. Frankly I fail to see any difference in screaming hellfire and brimstone about non-vegans. *shrug* Talisman Actinide Chemistry Graduate Student 2004ICP-MS and Radioactive Isotope User Master Alchemist Gamma Mu ColonyAlpha Chi Sigma FraternityHeading to Notre Dame Fall 2005!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 30, 2005 Report Share Posted April 30, 2005 I can understand your thoughts and feelings. I felt the same way about all those folks out there with a million and one excuses for why they supported factory farms, instant/processed/refined foods and growing foods with pesticides and chemical fertilizers. I'd rant for hours about the waste of water when I lived in wine country when it had been clearly shown that running drip in a vineyard was far superior to sprinklers. Why they use plastics or aluminum (production is major polluting industry). Why they drive gas driven cars, huge SUVs to go grocery shopping, leave lights on 24/7, and so forth and so on. The excuses and *explanations* of their choices went on and on and on. I don't have enough time, it is too expensive, there aren't enough choices, blah, blah, blah. The same with folks that are over weight. Always excuses and no one makes an effort. So, as we learned more, the more we did for ourselves and count it lucky if we convert a person every now and again. At least that is one less person that is continuing the slaughter of the earth. I figured out a long time ago that there just isn't much one can do except plod along and keeping chipping away at the folks around you. HOWEVER, I also found that I converted more folks by not being a frothing at the mouth radical but rather talking to them from a position of educating them. "Did you know that plastics off-gas when you microwave foods in them?" "Did you see pictures of the Klamath river?" (Then show them the green slime that passes for a river and the thousands of dead salmon and explain that the pesticides and fertilizers from the desert converted to farmland farmers dump in the river are the cause.) One step at a time. Lynda, who isn't a vegan but may be one someday. - Jeff Devine Friday, April 29, 2005 6:22 PM How Do You Cope? When I look around at my society and realise how rare a vegan diet is, I get really pissed. I look at a fat person and think, "If only they were vegan, then they wouldn't be overweight." I see so many people complaining of common ailments and I'm totally convinced that veganism is the solution. I'm starting to get people really mad by continually enforcing my vegan beliefs which I feel so strongly about. It drives me crazy when I think of the vast array of global problems that could be solved if we would all adopt a vegan diet. Apparently peoples' taste buds are more important than our environment. And taste is relative. What is wrong with people? I admit that my thoughts are irrational, and I know that it's crazy to think that the whole world will go vegan. But I also know that adopting a vegan diet isn't nearly as difficult as the world thinks. I'm angry at meat eaters, not personally, but as a whole. I don't want to be angry. What do you do? Jeff Post your free ad now! Canada PersonalsTo send an email to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 30, 2005 Report Share Posted April 30, 2005 Jef, My hairdresser has the very same name as you but I know that I am not speaking to him because he thinks that I am nuts because I object to eating meat. Most people think that I am nuts but I have had 30 years to get used to it. Even after 30 years I am constantly amazed at what most people consider to be food. I was helping a local club today and they provided some food bits for the helpers and I looked at it and actualy thought that they may as well have provided me with shredded paper to eat (luckly I had provided my own). I cant see it changing in this generation or maybe not even in the next but it will change. It is a pity that you and I will not have the satisfaction of seeing it. I think that we should consider ourselvs to be extreemly lucky and feel sorry for them instead of feeling angry with them. y , peter hurd <swpgh01@t...> wrote: > Jeff, > Chill out a bit, I guess that you havent been vegan for that long? > Obese people can be vegan, it is not only carnivores that put on weight. > Tyring to enforce your beliefs on anyone or anything, is not something that I would condone. Leading by example is, and offering advice where asked is also a good idea.Passive resistance can achieve some good results. > While we ( vegans) all have concerns about the state of the world, and are regularly dismayed by the things people do to their own bodies, all I can suggest is that you be the best person that you can be, and stay true to your beliefs. > > The Valley Vegan............... > > Jeff Devine <jeffdevine8> wrote: > When I look around at my society and realise how rare a vegan diet is, I get really pissed. I look at a fat person and think, " If only they were vegan, then they wouldn't be overweight. " I see so many people complaining of common ailments and I'm totally convinced that veganism is the solution. > > I'm starting to get people really mad by continually enforcing my vegan beliefs which I feel so strongly about. It drives me crazy when I think of the vast array of global problems that could be solved if we would all adopt a vegan diet. Apparently peoples' taste buds are more important than our environment. And taste is relative. What is wrong with people? > > I admit that my thoughts are irrational, and I know that it's crazy to think that the whole world will go vegan. But I also know that adopting a vegan diet isn't nearly as difficult as the world thinks. > > I'm angry at meat eaters, not personally, but as a whole. I don't want to be angry. What do you do? > > Jeff > > > > > > Post your free ad now! Canada Personals > > > To send an email to - > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 1, 2005 Report Share Posted May 1, 2005 Wrong. Jo "If only they were vegan, then they wouldn't be overweight." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 1, 2005 Report Share Posted May 1, 2005 The same with folks that are over weight. Always excuses and no one makes an effort. Do you ever listen to the excuses before you see a fat person and go "oh yippie another fattie?" Some of us have actual issues. I had thyroid cancer in Nov. 2002 and ever since then my weight is a b*tch to keep under control. I even think about eating a potato chip and I gain 15 pounds. The doctors can't explain it either. I haven't been down to a "normal" weight since I had my surgery. I'm not going to say none of it is my issue because I did put on some weight last summer because I got all stressed out with life and lazy. But for the last year I have kept a food log etc... Take last month for example. As of April 1st I was down 12 pounds from where I was March 1st. I lost over 10 pounds. Today it's May 1st and I'm up 9 pounds again. I've not done anything different, stayed within normal eating and exercised except for a few days when I was ill. The doctors can't figure it out. Not only does it kick your self-esteem right in the ass, but it is frustrating as hell too. So before you label all us fatties as "all excuses no effort" remember that there are a few of us out there who want to slit our writsts every time we walk near a mirror or a scale because we have tried. My doctor's only current suggestion is that I start eating meat. *shrug* Talisman Actinide Chemistry Graduate Student 2004ICP-MS and Radioactive Isotope User Master Alchemist Gamma Mu ColonyAlpha Chi Sigma FraternityHeading to Notre Dame Fall 2005!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 1, 2005 Report Share Posted May 1, 2005 HiJeff I think we all get angry at times, but there is nothing we can do about it. Just try to understand that they haven't reached the same stage yet. Jo >>>>>I'm angry at meat eaters, not personally, but as a whole. I don't want to be angry. What do you do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 1, 2005 Report Share Posted May 1, 2005 I suppose being overweight is the fault of the person, just as bad manners are. Jo - ChemGeek Sunday, May 01, 2005 3:16 PM Re: How Do You Cope? The same with folks that are over weight. Always excuses and no one makes an effort. Do you ever listen to the excuses before you see a fat person and go "oh yippie another fattie?" Some of us have actual issues. I had thyroid cancer in Nov. 2002 and ever since then my weight is a b*tch to keep under control. I even think about eating a potato chip and I gain 15 pounds. The doctors can't explain it either. I haven't been down to a "normal" weight since I had my surgery. I'm not going to say none of it is my issue because I did put on some weight last summer because I got all stressed out with life and lazy. But for the last year I have kept a food log etc... Take last month for example. As of April 1st I was down 12 pounds from where I was March 1st. I lost over 10 pounds. Today it's May 1st and I'm up 9 pounds again. I've not done anything different, stayed within normal eating and exercised except for a few days when I was ill. The doctors can't figure it out. Not only does it kick your self-esteem right in the ass, but it is frustrating as hell too. So before you label all us fatties as "all excuses no effort" remember that there are a few of us out there who want to slit our writsts every time we walk near a mirror or a scale because we have tried. My doctor's only current suggestion is that I start eating meat. *shrug* Talisman Actinide Chemistry Graduate Student 2004ICP-MS and Radioactive Isotope User Master Alchemist Gamma Mu ColonyAlpha Chi Sigma FraternityHeading to Notre Dame Fall 2005!! To send an email to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 1, 2005 Report Share Posted May 1, 2005 Also, vegans are their own worst enemies. Has anyone ever been to a Health and Harmony Fair? Too large a % of those folks look down right sickly! AND, you can smell them or the patooli oil or the weed a mile away. Not to say that patooli oil or weed are a bad thing but the body odor is! There used to be one in the city I used to live in. I over heard more than one mother (usually the mother of a young teen) saying (paraphrased) " If that is what being a vegetarian (they don't know the difference) looks like then my [son/daughter] isn't going to try that diet. " Unfortunately, it isn't the sensible folks that are usually " seen " and identified as " vegan. " Same with the pro-life folks or Christians or most any other folks that have an agenda and want to change the minds of others. I think the Ladies in Black are about the only movement that hasn't gone out of its way, or some segment of it, to offend the very folks they want to convert. Lynda - Mary Minihane <minih Saturday, April 30, 2005 2:12 PM Re: How Do You Cope? > Jef, My hairdresser has the very same name as you but I know that I > am not speaking to him because he thinks that I am nuts because I > object to eating meat. Most people think that I am nuts but I have > had 30 years to get used to it. Even after 30 years I am constantly > amazed at what most people consider to be food. I was helping a > local club today and they provided some food bits for the helpers > and I looked at it and actualy thought that they may as well have > provided me with shredded paper to eat (luckly I had provided my > own). I cant see it changing in this generation or maybe not even in > the next but it will change. It is a pity that you and I will not > have the satisfaction of seeing it. I think that we should consider > ourselvs to be extreemly lucky and feel sorry for them instead of > feeling angry with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 1, 2005 Report Share Posted May 1, 2005 And then there are those of us who are fat veg*ns, happy with our fat bodies, and tired of being told by other veg*ns that there must be something wrong with us. I'm lazy? Yeah, right. I keep a home and a job and two households running. I'm unsexy? Tell it to my two husbands and my wife. I'd be thin if I were a vegan? Didn't happen in my 18 years of vegetarianism and 2 years of veganism. I did lose a little weight a couple of years ago, but that's because of a painful divorce (didn't want to eat) and a new partner (who liked to walk a lot and have lots of sex). Fat people are not automatically lazy, unhealthy, or inferior to you. (My doctor said he would exchange his bank balance for my cholesterol number, for instance.) serene -- " A conservative is someone who worships the views of dead liberals. " -- The Holy Church of Happy Good Times Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 1, 2005 Report Share Posted May 1, 2005 Jo wrote: >I suppose being overweight Over which weight? The weight you've decided they should be? > is the fault of the person, just as bad manners are. Being fat is not a sin; being fat is not someone's *fault*. Some people are fat; some aren't. For a bunch of compassionate vegetarians, I'm seeing an awful lot of judgmental bullshit in this thread. serene -- " A conservative is someone who worships the views of dead liberals. " -- The Holy Church of Happy Good Times Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 1, 2005 Report Share Posted May 1, 2005 , " ChemGeek " <chemgeek@c...> wrote: > > I look at a fat person and think, " If only they were vegan, then they wouldn't be overweight. " > Well, then I hate to inform you that you are totally mistaken. I've been a vegan for almost 15 years and guess what? I'm overweight. I got stressed out over a serious problem in my marriage top it off with my courses at school combined with teaching and being a mother which lead to me getting lazy and overwhelmed with life. I started eating a lot of pre-packaged foods and combine that with little exercise and I woke up one morning 30 pounds heavier than I remember. I guess it was better than jumping off a bridge. > > Either way, I also hate to break it to you, I'm not the only overweight vegan in the world. When meat eaters or ovo-lacto vegetarians think of " vegan " they think of these heroin waif small people. It really bothers me that even so-called vegans can have this same screwed up image in their head that every vegan is slim and out hiking every day. > > Regarding the actual point of your email.. " how do I cope " ? I have long since given up screaming from a soapbox about the perils of eating meat. If a friend asks me, I will talk to them about it; but, just as I have the right to chose to be a vegan, other people have the right to chose to eat meat. Being a non-Christian it annoys the crap out of me when people corner me at the supermarket or other stores to preach to me about Christ. Frankly I fail to see any difference in screaming hellfire and brimstone about non-vegans. *shrug* > > > > Talisman > > > Actinide Chemistry Graduate Student 2004 > ICP-MS and Radioactive Isotope User > Master Alchemist Gamma Mu Colony > Alpha Chi Sigma Fraternity > Heading to Notre Dame Fall 2005!! At a young age you have overcome a lot of challenges, achieved a lot. Being a Mom of two children and going to Grad school is very demanding. All these are actually very noble. Keep up your efforts and wish you further successes. Please continue posting here whenever time permits, it is great to read your posts. Warm Regards to you and your family, Vijay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 1, 2005 Report Share Posted May 1, 2005 Sorry, should have said the majority. However, I have no patience with folks that complain and then sit on their tush and do nothing. Doc advises "x,y" or "z" and they complain, as they are eating their double quarter pounder, super sized fried and super sized coke that they just can't understand why the doc doesn't understand. For example, we used to own a small country store. Folks would come in and the doc would tell them "eat more *fresh* veggies, eat more *fresh* fruits, eat salads, cut the refined starches and sugar, eat whole grains, cut red meats and eat 4 oz of fish or white meat chicken." They'd go back to the butcher shop and ask for the 4 oz size of fish or chicken. Take one look at it and order an inch thick slice of Porterhouse, don't remove the fat. Their basket would be full of canned veggies, canned/heavy syrup fruit, potato and macaroni salad, Rice-A-Roni, Pasta-Roni, white bread, sugared cereal, Coke, beer, chips, ice cream, snack foods and then they topped it off with the fat cuts of RED meat. As a person with a medical problem that has been aggravated by surgery, I get the looks and what annoys me is that I think the reason we get the looks is that most folks that are overweight aren't there because they can't do something about it. If only folks who couldn't do something about it were "fat," then the general perception would change. Lynda - ChemGeek Sunday, May 01, 2005 7:16 AM Re: How Do You Cope? The same with folks that are over weight. Always excuses and no one makes an effort. Do you ever listen to the excuses before you see a fat person and go "oh yippie another fattie?" Some of us have actual issues. I had thyroid cancer in Nov. 2002 and ever since then my weight is a b*tch to keep under control. I even think about eating a potato chip and I gain 15 pounds. The doctors can't explain it either. I haven't been down to a "normal" weight since I had my surgery. I'm not going to say none of it is my issue because I did put on some weight last summer because I got all stressed out with life and lazy. But for the last year I have kept a food log etc... Take last month for example. As of April 1st I was down 12 pounds from where I was March 1st. I lost over 10 pounds. Today it's May 1st and I'm up 9 pounds again. I've not done anything different, stayed within normal eating and exercised except for a few days when I was ill. The doctors can't figure it out. Not only does it kick your self-esteem right in the ass, but it is frustrating as hell too. So before you label all us fatties as "all excuses no effort" remember that there are a few of us out there who want to slit our writsts every time we walk near a mirror or a scale because we have tried. My doctor's only current suggestion is that I start eating meat. *shrug* Talisman Actinide Chemistry Graduate Student 2004ICP-MS and Radioactive Isotope User Master Alchemist Gamma Mu ColonyAlpha Chi Sigma FraternityHeading to Notre Dame Fall 2005!! To send an email to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 1, 2005 Report Share Posted May 1, 2005 FYI, about 8 years ago I managed to put on 30 pounds while eating whole foods and working out 4 days a week before being diagnosed with Hashimoto's disease. -Anna - Jo Cwazy 5/1/2005 11:08:05 AM Re: How Do You Cope? I suppose being overweight is the fault of the person, just as bad manners are. Jo - ChemGeek Sunday, May 01, 2005 3:16 PM Re: How Do You Cope? The same with folks that are over weight. Always excuses and no one makes an effort. Do you ever listen to the excuses before you see a fat person and go "oh yippie another fattie?" Some of us have actual issues. I had thyroid cancer in Nov. 2002 and ever since then my weight is a b*tch to keep under control. I even think about eating a potato chip and I gain 15 pounds. The doctors can't explain it either. I haven't been down to a "normal" weight since I had my surgery. I'm not going to say none of it is my issue because I did put on some weight last summer because I got all stressed out with life and lazy. But for the last year I have kept a food log etc... Take last month for example. As of April 1st I was down 12 pounds from where I was March 1st. I lost over 10 pounds. Today it's May 1st and I'm up 9 pounds again. I've not done anything different, stayed within normal eating and exercised except for a few days when I was ill. The doctors can't figure it out. Not only does it kick your self-esteem right in the ass, but it is frustrating as hell too. So before you label all us fatties as "all excuses no effort" remember that there are a few of us out there who want to slit our writsts every time we walk near a mirror or a scale because we have tried. My doctor's only current suggestion is that I start eating meat. *shrug* Talisman Actinide Chemistry Graduate Student 2004ICP-MS and Radioactive Isotope User Master Alchemist Gamma Mu ColonyAlpha Chi Sigma FraternityHeading to Notre Dame Fall 2005!! To send an email to - To send an email to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 1, 2005 Report Share Posted May 1, 2005 Hi serene, you are lucky, you are educated over food issues, and your body weight is accepted an loved by you and your family just fine. It seems to me like you have a healthy mindset about image. I respect that. but I also believe that you are an exception, perhaps because you live in San Francisco, and it seems to me that people are very educated about healthy food choices in that city. however, the average american, this is my experience from having been to about 16 states, is either poorly educated, or doesn't really care about ingredients, or nutrition. Some of it is their fault. I have seen over and over again people who suffer from obesity related ailments like diabetes, follow the same type of diet and lifestyle that they always have. What's worse I live in a Car society, where you literally can't walk to places, you must take a car. Someone at my job, got saved from a heart attack with surgery and today is alive and well. Did he stop eating fried fatty foods? no. I see him in the lunchroom eating this stuff, but I don't say anything, because it is none of my business. He is also Not severely overweight. There are some people in my family like this. They fill up their grocery cart , with donuts, ice cream, sodas, partially hydrogenated oils etc. There is an abundance of low priced, fatty foods out there and some people are more about will full ignorance or just addicted to sugar and fatty foods because it is how they grew up. This is why the majorty of americans are overweight. There is a problem out there. I don't discriminate anyone on their appearance, however it is sad to see some people struggle at a young age, with obesity problems such as heart disease or to restrict themselves of activities. that being said, We must remember that in the 1950's the average woman was a size 12 and considered very attractive, so its also in people's head. when I was a teenager in 1990. I went to Dominican Republic on vacation and I was considered very ugly and unnattractive to the men of that country. I was shocked at the rejection I got and the comments. they would say, " I want a woman who's got a BUTT that I can grab" or " You are a walking piece of stick" or " hi olive oil" etc. etc. they would also doubt my fertility. However that very same year, I went to high school in the village, near soho in nyc, and my skinnyness was envied, by the girls and I was considered "model like" by the boys. Their is an article in this months Mothering magazine, about what a great job coporations are doing or trying to do to start kids on the sugar habit/ artificial flavor habit from an early age starting with cartoons, and brand recognition/loyalty. I mean c'mon, in my local super market theres BLUE colored Heinz ketchup. is that really necessary? when I was a kid, the worst I ate was wonder all white bread. Over which weight? The weight you've decided they should be?> is the fault of the person, just as bad manners are.Being fat is not a sin; being fat is not someone's *fault*. Some people are fat; some aren't. For a bunch of compassionate vegetarians, I'm seeing an awful lot of judgmental bullshit in this thread.serene-- "A conservative is someone who worships the views of dead liberals." -- The Holy Church of Happy Good TimesTo send an email to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 1, 2005 Report Share Posted May 1, 2005 Calm down Serene. I am overweight, and logically speaking it is possible for us to all lose weight if we try very hard (I'm not saying we should try). My reference to bad manners was aimed at Lynda who seems to have been very harsh in her judgement on overweight people. Jo - " serene (Sandra Vannoy) " <serene Sunday, May 01, 2005 6:19 PM Re: How Do You Cope? > Jo wrote: > > > >I suppose being overweight > > > Over which weight? The weight you've decided they should be? > > > > is the fault of the person, just as bad manners are. > > Being fat is not a sin; being fat is not someone's *fault*. Some > people are fat; some aren't. For a bunch of compassionate > vegetarians, I'm seeing an awful lot of judgmental bullshit in this > thread. > > serene > -- > " A conservative is someone who worships the views of dead liberals. " > -- The Holy Church of Happy Good Times > > > > To send an email to - > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 1, 2005 Report Share Posted May 1, 2005 Last week I posted the latest research that said that people with a body mass index of 25 was healthier than anybody with a different body mass index - I therefore don't see that a size 12 can be considered to be overweight. Jo - anouk sickler Sunday, May 01, 2005 10:21 PM Re: How Do You Cope? Hi serene, you are lucky, you are educated over food issues, and your body weight is accepted an loved by you and your family just fine. It seems to me like you have a healthy mindset about image. I respect that. but I also believe that you are an exception, perhaps because you live in San Francisco, and it seems to me that people are very educated about healthy food choices in that city. however, the average american, this is my experience from having been to about 16 states, is either poorly educated, or doesn't really care about ingredients, or nutrition. Some of it is their fault. I have seen over and over again people who suffer from obesity related ailments like diabetes, follow the same type of diet and lifestyle that they always have. What's worse I live in a Car society, where you literally can't walk to places, you must take a car. Someone at my job, got saved from a heart attack with surgery and today is alive and well. Did he stop eating fried fatty foods? no. I see him in the lunchroom eating this stuff, but I don't say anything, because it is none of my business. He is also Not severely overweight. There are some people in my family like this. They fill up their grocery cart , with donuts, ice cream, sodas, partially hydrogenated oils etc. There is an abundance of low priced, fatty foods out there and some people are more about will full ignorance or just addicted to sugar and fatty foods because it is how they grew up. This is why the majorty of americans are overweight. There is a problem out there. I don't discriminate anyone on their appearance, however it is sad to see some people struggle at a young age, with obesity problems such as heart disease or to restrict themselves of activities. that being said, We must remember that in the 1950's the average woman was a size 12 and considered very attractive, so its also in people's head. when I was a teenager in 1990. I went to Dominican Republic on vacation and I was considered very ugly and unnattractive to the men of that country. I was shocked at the rejection I got and the comments. they would say, " I want a woman who's got a BUTT that I can grab" or " You are a walking piece of stick" or " hi olive oil" etc. etc. they would also doubt my fertility. However that very same year, I went to high school in the village, near soho in nyc, and my skinnyness was envied, by the girls and I was considered "model like" by the boys. Their is an article in this months Mothering magazine, about what a great job coporations are doing or trying to do to start kids on the sugar habit/ artificial flavor habit from an early age starting with cartoons, and brand recognition/loyalty. I mean c'mon, in my local super market theres BLUE colored Heinz ketchup. is that really necessary? when I was a kid, the worst I ate was wonder all white bread. Over which weight? The weight you've decided they should be?> is the fault of the person, just as bad manners are.Being fat is not a sin; being fat is not someone's *fault*. Some people are fat; some aren't. For a bunch of compassionate vegetarians, I'm seeing an awful lot of judgmental bullshit in this thread.serene-- "A conservative is someone who worships the views of dead liberals." -- The Holy Church of Happy Good TimesTo send an email to - To send an email to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 1, 2005 Report Share Posted May 1, 2005 Jo wrote: >Calm down Serene. Excuse me? What gave you the idea I was not calm, or that I am looking to you for advice on what to post? > I am overweight, and logically speaking it is possible >for us to all lose weight if we try very hard (I'm not saying we should >try). Logically speaking, 95% of diets fail, so I think that your logic is flawed. > >My reference to bad manners was aimed at Lynda who seems to have been very >harsh in her judgement on overweight people. So you get to react to others' impolite comments, but I don't? Gotcha. serene -- " A conservative is someone who worships the views of dead liberals. " -- The Holy Church of Happy Good Times Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 1, 2005 Report Share Posted May 1, 2005 Have it your own way. Jo > > Excuse me? What gave you the idea I was not calm, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 2, 2005 Report Share Posted May 2, 2005 Hi lynda, from that description I am lucky not to have gone to a health and harmony fair. I am not familiar with patooli oil is and I don't smoke weed. I don't judge ohters who do, it's just that I really need all of my brain cells.. as, I went to a ghetto school and have had to self educate myself. I don't fit the sickly profile, Me my husband and two little boys get compliments on how our skin glows. I have tons of energy, have counted just three gray hairs in my 32 years. My theory on thse sickly vegans is that they just don't have access to alot of options. For instance, Whole foods, has many healthy vegan alternatives, but not everyone can shop there unless they want to spend their whole paycheck. Not every vegan has access to land. We lived in a poor neighborhood in brooklyn for one year and we were starting to look real SICKLY, only because, the grocery stores around us had no healthy options! (we didn't have a car) I belong to an argentinian vegan chat group and they have a REALLY hard time finding vegan items, but they will forgo any product, by any company, that tests on animals, for the sake of their own moral values. That is more important to them, than having an abundance of food/cosmetics to choose from. The other day I was trying to find cookies for my son to take to school, I could not find a single one that did not include eggs, butter, or honey. I was at whole foods, I left empty handed. He is trying to understand this. He is six. I will have to make my own. as for body odor, it is my understanding that vegans have better body odor than meat eaters. we eat less toxins, that means our bodies have less toxins to get rid of. Yes, I am saying that my shit smells less : ) I bet if we were to do an informal poll with photographs of vegans, vs, meat-eaters, that the vegans would look more attractive. Just a guess. I agree with you about the cristians, when someone shoves anything down your throat, the reaction is to rebel/ defensive. - Lynda 5/1/2005 6:14:32 PM Re: Re: How Do You Cope? Also, vegans are their own worst enemies. Has anyone ever been to a Healthand Harmony Fair? Too large a % of those folks look down right sickly!AND, you can smell them or the patooli oil or the weed a mile away. Not tosay that patooli oil or weed are a bad thing but the body odor is! There used to be one in the city I used to live in. I over heard more thanone mother (usually the mother of a young teen) saying (paraphrased) "Ifthat is what being a vegetarian (they don't know the difference) looks likethen my [son/daughter] isn't going to try that diet."Unfortunately, it isn't the sensible folks that are usually "seen" andidentified as "vegan." Same with the pro-life folks or Christians or mostany other folks that have an agenda and want to change the minds of others.I think the Ladies in Black are about the only movement that hasn't gone outof its way, or some segment of it, to offend the very folks they want toconvert.Lynda-Mary Minihane <minihSaturday, April 30, 2005 2:12 PM Re: How Do You Cope?> Jef, My hairdresser has the very same name as you but I know that I> am not speaking to him because he thinks that I am nuts because I> object to eating meat. Most people think that I am nuts but I have> had 30 years to get used to it. Even after 30 years I am constantly> amazed at what most people consider to be food. I was helping a> local club today and they provided some food bits for the helpers> and I looked at it and actualy thought that they may as well have> provided me with shredded paper to eat (luckly I had provided my> own). I cant see it changing in this generation or maybe not even in> the next but it will change. It is a pity that you and I will not> have the satisfaction of seeing it. I think that we should consider> ourselvs to be extreemly lucky and feel sorry for them instead of> feeling angry with them.To send an email to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 2, 2005 Report Share Posted May 2, 2005 The problem is that these are the folks that stick in the minds of a lot of the folks one would try to convert. When a negative image is presented year after year, that is "the" image folks have. As to that particular Health and Harmony Fair, there are tons of options in Wine Country and it is simply a life style that those folks to. Of course, a lot of folks aren't real clear on the whole complex carbs thing and having to have a balance diet and choices. They just look at fruits and veggies and away they go. At anyrate, my point is that a majority of vegans are that way but that enough are that they give the whole segment of society a bad image. Youngest kidlet was talking to a lady about being a vegetarian and as soon as she said she was going to become a vegan, you could see the warning bells go off in this woman's head. Later she came up to me and asked if I knew she wanted to be "one of those people" and did I really want her hanging around "that element." Of course, she went running in the opposite direction and looking for something to ward off the evil when I said, "Oh, that's o.k., we homeschool too." <g> Lynda - anouk sickler Sunday, May 01, 2005 9:43 PM Re: Re: How Do You Cope? Hi lynda, from that description I am lucky not to have gone to a health and harmony fair. I am not familiar with patooli oil is and I don't smoke weed. I don't judge ohters who do, it's just that I really need all of my brain cells.. as, I went to a ghetto school and have had to self educate myself. I don't fit the sickly profile, Me my husband and two little boys get compliments on how our skin glows. I have tons of energy, have counted just three gray hairs in my 32 years. My theory on thse sickly vegans is that they just don't have access to alot of options. For instance, Whole foods, has many healthy vegan alternatives, but not everyone can shop there unless they want to spend their whole paycheck. Not every vegan has access to land. We lived in a poor neighborhood in brooklyn for one year and we were starting to look real SICKLY, only because, the grocery stores around us had no healthy options! (we didn't have a car) I belong to an argentinian vegan chat group and they have a REALLY hard time finding vegan items, but they will forgo any product, by any company, that tests on animals, for the sake of their own moral values. That is more important to them, than having an abundance of food/cosmetics to choose from. The other day I was trying to find cookies for my son to take to school, I could not find a single one that did not include eggs, butter, or honey. I was at whole foods, I left empty handed. He is trying to understand this. He is six. I will have to make my own. as for body odor, it is my understanding that vegans have better body odor than meat eaters. we eat less toxins, that means our bodies have less toxins to get rid of. Yes, I am saying that my shit smells less : ) I bet if we were to do an informal poll with photographs of vegans, vs, meat-eaters, that the vegans would look more attractive. Just a guess. I agree with you about the cristians, when someone shoves anything down your throat, the reaction is to rebel/ defensive. - Lynda 5/1/2005 6:14:32 PM Re: Re: How Do You Cope? Also, vegans are their own worst enemies. Has anyone ever been to a Healthand Harmony Fair? Too large a % of those folks look down right sickly!AND, you can smell them or the patooli oil or the weed a mile away. Not tosay that patooli oil or weed are a bad thing but the body odor is! There used to be one in the city I used to live in. I over heard more thanone mother (usually the mother of a young teen) saying (paraphrased) "Ifthat is what being a vegetarian (they don't know the difference) looks likethen my [son/daughter] isn't going to try that diet."Unfortunately, it isn't the sensible folks that are usually "seen" andidentified as "vegan." Same with the pro-life folks or Christians or mostany other folks that have an agenda and want to change the minds of others.I think the Ladies in Black are about the only movement that hasn't gone outof its way, or some segment of it, to offend the very folks they want toconvert.Lynda-Mary Minihane <minihSaturday, April 30, 2005 2:12 PM Re: How Do You Cope?> Jef, My hairdresser has the very same n ame as you but I know that I> am not speaking to him because he thinks that I am nuts because I> object to eating meat. Most people think that I am nuts but I have> had 30 years to get used to it. Even after 30 years I am constantly> amazed at what most people consider to be food. I was helping a> local club today and they provided some food bits for the helpers> and I looked at it and actualy thought that they may as well have> provided me with shredded paper to eat (luckly I had provided my> own). I cant see it changing in this generation or maybe not even in> the next but it will change. It is a pity that you and I will not> have the satisfaction of seeing it. I think that we should consider> ourselvs to be extreemly lucky and feel sorry for them instead of> feeling angry with them.To send an email to -@g roups.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 2, 2005 Report Share Posted May 2, 2005 Well, I hate being looked down at for being that " skinny vegan who DOES hike every day. " People's bodies are just different. Be they vegan or non-vegan, people are gonna be physically different. Yeah, I also feel that anger you were talking about toward meat-eating in general. Especially people with the many ailments that could be helped by adopting a vegan diet. No point really in telling people things they are not willing to hear, but I find having ready answers to questions useful. sara , " ChemGeek " <chemgeek@c...> wrote: > Either way, I also hate to break it to you, I'm not the only overweight vegan in the world. When meat eaters or ovo-lacto vegetarians think of " vegan " they think of these heroin waif small people. It really bothers me that even so-called vegans can have this same screwed up image in their head that every vegan is slim and out hiking every day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 3, 2005 Report Share Posted May 3, 2005 I'm not sure what you are trying to say. What is it you dislike about alternative people, or people who like patchouli oil? There are many vegans who also have alternative lifestyles and many vegans who are totally conservative (in the British sense) in their approach to life. Is your daughter frightened of being alternative? Jo - Lynda Monday, May 02, 2005 10:22 PM Re: Re: How Do You Cope? The problem is that these are the folks that stick in the minds of a lot of the folks one would try to convert. When a negative image is presented year after year, that is "the" image folks have. As to that particular Health and Harmony Fair, there are tons of options in Wine Country and it is simply a life style that those folks to. Of course, a lot of folks aren't real clear on the whole complex carbs thing and having to have a balance diet and choices. They just look at fruits and veggies and away they go. At anyrate, my point is that a majority of vegans are that way but that enough are that they give the whole segment of society a bad image. Youngest kidlet was talking to a lady about being a vegetarian and as soon as she said she was going to become a vegan, you could see the warning bells go off in this woman's head. Later she came up to me and asked if I knew she wanted to be "one of those people" and did I really want her hanging around "that element." Of course, she went running in the opposite direction and looking for something to ward off the evil when I said, "Oh, that's o.k., we homeschool too." <g> Lynda - anouk sickler Sunday, May 01, 2005 9:43 PM Re: Re: How Do You Cope? Hi lynda, from that description I am lucky not to have gone to a health and harmony fair. I am not familiar with patooli oil is and I don't smoke weed. I don't judge ohters who do, it's just that I really need all of my brain cells.. as, I went to a ghetto school and have had to self educate myself. I don't fit the sickly profile, Me my husband and two little boys get compliments on how our skin glows. I have tons of energy, have counted just three gray hairs in my 32 years. My theory on thse sickly vegans is that they just don't have access to alot of options. For instance, Whole foods, has many healthy vegan alternatives, but not everyone can shop there unless they want to spend their whole paycheck. Not every vegan has access to land. We lived in a poor neighborhood in brooklyn for one year and we were starting to look real SICKLY, only because, the grocery stores around us had no healthy options! (we didn't have a car) I belong to an argentinian vegan chat group and they have a REALLY hard time finding vegan items, but they will forgo any product, by any company, that tests on animals, for the sake of their own moral values. That is more important to them, than having an abundance of food/cosmetics to choose from. The other day I was trying to find cookies for my son to take to school, I could not find a single one that did not include eggs, butter, or honey. I was at whole foods, I left empty handed. He is trying to understand this. He is six. I will have to make my own. as for body odor, it is my understanding that vegans have better body odor than meat eaters. we eat less toxins, that means our bodies have less toxins to get rid of. Yes, I am saying that my shit smells less : ) I bet if we were to do an informal poll with photographs of vegans, vs, meat-eaters, that the vegans would look more attractive. Just a guess. I agree with you about the cristians, when someone shoves anything down your throat, the reaction is to rebel/ defensive. - Lynda 5/1/2005 6:14:32 PM Re: Re: How Do You Cope? Also, vegans are their own worst enemies. Has anyone ever been to a Healthand Harmony Fair? Too large a % of those folks look down right sickly!AND, you can smell them or the patooli oil or the weed a mile away. Not tosay that patooli oil or weed are a bad thing but the body odor is! There used to be one in the city I used to live in. I over heard more thanone mother (usually the mother of a young teen) saying (paraphrased) "Ifthat is what being a vegetarian (they don't know the difference) looks likethen my [son/daughter] isn't going to try that diet."Unfortunately, it isn't the sensible folks that are usually "seen" andidentified as "vegan." Same with the pro-life folks or Christians or mostany other folks that have an agenda and want to change the minds of others.I think the Ladies in Black are about the only movement that hasn't gone outof its way, or some segment of it, to offend the very folks they want toconvert.Lynda-Mary Minihane <minihSaturday, April 30, 2005 2:12 PM Re: How Do You Cope?> Jef, My hairdresser has the very same n ame as you but I know that I> am not speaking to him because he thinks that I am nuts because I> object to eating meat. Most people think that I am nuts but I have> had 30 years to get used to it. Even after 30 years I am constantly> amazed at what most people consider to be food. I was helping a> local club today and they provided some food bits for the helpers> and I looked at it and actualy thought that they may as well have> provided me with shredded paper to eat (luckly I had provided my> own). I cant see it changing in this generation or maybe not even in> the next but it will change. It is a pity that you and I will not> have the satisfaction of seeing it. I think that we should consider> ourselvs to be extreemly lucky and feel sorry for them instead of> feeling angry with them.To send an email to -@g roups.com To send an email to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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