Guest guest Posted July 18, 2005 Report Share Posted July 18, 2005 Hi, I was wondering what other people think about the control of invasive species. In order to protect unique animal and plant ecosystem introduced animals such as rats, cats and where I live also possums, rabbits, stoats (and the list goes on) need to be removed. This often means killed in traps or poisoned, or by other means. Invasive species have been ranked by some ecologists as the second most damaging threat to the environment, after habitat destruction, and contribute to the demise of endangered endemic plants and animals. As a vegan I want to prevent animal suffering and I also want to preserve native animal and plant communities. Is it wrong to kill invasive animals to preserve ecosystems? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 18, 2005 Report Share Posted July 18, 2005 > Hi, I was wondering what other people think about the control of > invasive species. In order to protect unique animal and plant > ecosystem introduced animals such as rats, cats and where I live also > possums, rabbits, stoats (and the list goes on) need to be removed. > This often means killed in traps or poisoned, or by other means. > Invasive species have been ranked by some ecologists as the second > most damaging threat to the environment, after habitat destruction, > and contribute to the demise of endangered endemic plants and animals. > As a vegan I want to prevent animal suffering and I also want to > preserve native animal and plant communities. > Is it wrong to kill invasive animals to preserve ecosystems? I think the question ultimately comes down to whether you see individual lives or species as more important. BB Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 18, 2005 Report Share Posted July 18, 2005 Personally I believe if we were to look at " invasive species " we would need to look towards ourselves first. We are the most invasive species on the planet! And because of this, it has resulted in the in-balance of other species throughout the world. We are the ones driving them from their homes and killing them off and have been for centuries. BB Nikki , " cutoutcows " <cutoutcows> wrote: > Hi, I was wondering what other people think about the control of > invasive species. In order to protect unique animal and plant > ecosystem introduced animals such as rats, cats and where I live also > possums, rabbits, stoats (and the list goes on) need to be removed. > This often means killed in traps or poisoned, or by other means. > Invasive species have been ranked by some ecologists as the second > most damaging threat to the environment, after habitat destruction, > and contribute to the demise of endangered endemic plants and animals. > As a vegan I want to prevent animal suffering and I also want to > preserve native animal and plant communities. > Is it wrong to kill invasive animals to preserve ecosystems? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 18, 2005 Report Share Posted July 18, 2005 Nikki, I could not have said it any better Humans are the cause.... On Behalf Of nikki_mackovitchMonday, July 18, 2005 8:51 PM Subject: Re: invasive speiciesPersonally I believe if we were to look at "invasive species" we would need to look towards ourselves first. We are the most invasive species on the planet!And because of this, it has resulted in the in-balance of other species throughout the world. We are the ones driving them from their homes and killing them off and have been for centuries.BBNikki , "cutoutcows" <cutoutcows> wrote:> Hi, I was wondering what other people think about the control of > invasive species. In order to protect unique animal and plant > ecosystem introduced animals such as rats, cats and where I live also > possums, rabbits, stoats (and the list goes on) need to be removed. > This often means killed in traps or poisoned, or by other means. > Invasive species have been ranked by some ecologists as the second > most damaging threat to the environment, after habitat destruction, > and contribute to the demise of endangered endemic plants and animals. > As a vegan I want to prevent animal suffering and I also want to > preserve native animal and plant communities. > Is it wrong to kill invasive animals to preserve ecosystems? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 18, 2005 Report Share Posted July 18, 2005 There are other options than killing. Find a cooperative vet, use humane traps and have them neutered. This is the best options, particularly in the case of cats. In some animals, if you catch males you can band them and thus don't have the vet expense. It is a slow process but it does work. Also, if you encourage some native species it works to control introduced species. Here, bobcats make a good dent in the possum and cat population. You just need to be sure their habitat isn't destroyed (they like caves and thick groupings of brush). Native mink and weasels take out a lot of the introduced rats. You can also reduce the habitat that the introduced species is most fond of such as brush around drain ditches for stoats and reduce the food supply (putting those umbrella like skirts on trees where birds nest) which reduces the reproduction of the stoats. Are you in NZ? Lynda - cutoutcows <cutoutcows Sunday, July 17, 2005 4:38 PM invasive speicies > Hi, I was wondering what other people think about the control of > invasive species. In order to protect unique animal and plant > ecosystem introduced animals such as rats, cats and where I live also > possums, rabbits, stoats (and the list goes on) need to be removed. > This often means killed in traps or poisoned, or by other means. > Invasive species have been ranked by some ecologists as the second > most damaging threat to the environment, after habitat destruction, > and contribute to the demise of endangered endemic plants and animals. > As a vegan I want to prevent animal suffering and I also want to > preserve native animal and plant communities. > Is it wrong to kill invasive animals to preserve ecosystems? > To send an email to - > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 18, 2005 Report Share Posted July 18, 2005 I left the RSPB because they thought Ruddy ducks should be killed. They had been brought into England, and were mating with the white ducks. A life is a life. Jo > Hi, I was wondering what other people think about the control of > invasive species. In order to protect unique animal and plant > ecosystem introduced animals such as rats, cats and where I live also > possums, rabbits, stoats (and the list goes on) need to be removed. > This often means killed in traps or poisoned, or by other means. > Invasive species have been ranked by some ecologists as the second > most damaging threat to the environment, after habitat destruction, > and contribute to the demise of endangered endemic plants and animals. > As a vegan I want to prevent animal suffering and I also want to > preserve native animal and plant communities. > Is it wrong to kill invasive animals to preserve ecosystems? > To send an email to - > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 18, 2005 Report Share Posted July 18, 2005 O.K., we've assigned blame, now what is the answer to the question? Just throw up our hands and say, "oh well" and let some introduced animals take out whole species such as in Hawaii? Some introduced animals that are just like humans and kill just for the fun of it? That would be house cats who don't just kill because they are hungry but rather in many cases for the joy of the hunt and to have something to "play" with. Lynda - Craig Dearth Monday, July 18, 2005 6:59 AM RE: Re: invasive speicies Nikki, I could not have said it any better Humans are the cause.... On Behalf Of nikki_mackovitchMonday, July 18, 2005 8:51 PM Subject: Re: invasive speiciesPersonally I believe if we were to look at "invasive species" we would need to look towards ourselves first. We are the most invasive species on the planet!And because of this, it has resulted in the in-balance of other species throughout the world. We are the ones driving them from their homes and killing them off and have been for centuries.BBNikki , "cutoutcows" <cutoutcows> wrote:> Hi, I was wondering what other people think about the control of > invasive species. In order to protect unique animal and plant > ecosystem introduced animals such as rats, cats and where I live also > possums, rabbits, stoats (and the list goes on) need to be removed. > This often means killed in traps or poisoned, or by other means. > Invasive species have been ranked by some ecologists as the second > most damaging threat to the environment, after habitat destruction, > and contribute to the demise of endangered endemic plants and animals. > As a vegan I want to prevent animal suffering and I also want to > preserve native animal and plant communities. > Is it wrong to kill invasive animals to preserve ecosystems? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 2005 Report Share Posted July 19, 2005 I understand that humans are responsible for the introduction of these species and habitat destruction(and so many more heartbreaking things) and as such I think we need to look at solutions. Sure a life is a life, but I believe there comes a point when you have to ask is the life of this endangered bird more beneficial to this ecosystem than the life of this introduced animal which thrives in its native habitat? If we allow the life of the introduced animal we are often doing so at the expense of the endangered one. At the present time a conservative estimate is that at least 50,000 species of plants and animals are becomeing extinct every year- 6 species an hour we will never see again. If we just walk away from this we will eventually live in impoverished biological communities; no matter where you go you will find cows, rats, and cats, etc and no native frogs, birds... Diversity is part of the beauty of life, and unfortunately I think some animals must be killed for the sake of the environment, for the sake of other animals. I am uncomfortable with this, yet I see it as part of a solution to the disturbing extiction crisis on our planet. I guess I see it as some suffering is necessary to prevent greater suffering... ana Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 2005 Report Share Posted July 19, 2005 Thanks for your suggestions. I am in NZ so I guess the situation here is different because there are no native predators for the introduced species. , " Lynda " <lurine@s...> wrote: > There are other options than killing. Find a cooperative vet, use humane > traps and have them neutered. This is the best options, particularly in the > case of cats. In some animals, if you catch males you can band them and > thus don't have the vet expense. It is a slow process but it does work. > > Also, if you encourage some native species it works to control introduced > species. Here, bobcats make a good dent in the possum and cat population. > You just need to be sure their habitat isn't destroyed (they like caves and > thick groupings of brush). Native mink and weasels take out a lot of the > introduced rats. > > You can also reduce the habitat that the introduced species is most fond of > such as brush around drain ditches for stoats and reduce the food supply > (putting those umbrella like skirts on trees where birds nest) which reduces > the reproduction of the stoats. > > Are you in NZ? > > Lynda > - > cutoutcows <cutoutcows> > > Sunday, July 17, 2005 4:38 PM > invasive speicies > > > > Hi, I was wondering what other people think about the control of > > invasive species. In order to protect unique animal and plant > > ecosystem introduced animals such as rats, cats and where I live also > > possums, rabbits, stoats (and the list goes on) need to be removed. > > This often means killed in traps or poisoned, or by other means. > > Invasive species have been ranked by some ecologists as the second > > most damaging threat to the environment, after habitat destruction, > > and contribute to the demise of endangered endemic plants and animals. > > As a vegan I want to prevent animal suffering and I also want to > > preserve native animal and plant communities. > > Is it wrong to kill invasive animals to preserve ecosystems? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To send an email to - > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 2005 Report Share Posted July 19, 2005 Ah yes, so let us kill the animal because we brought it there. That makes sense. After all, it's the animals fault we brought it there. It's their fault that they did what nature programmed them to do. What we knew they would do. And it is the endangered species fault that it thrived at one time too well, so the introduced animal made us bring it there so we could wipe out the thriving animal who was mating. Damn them for doing what nature taught them! So I sound a bit harsh. I apologize if so only because it is not really directed at you. I guess i wonder why we can pay so much to introduce the animal, but then instead of being willing to move it elsewhere or figure out another solution, we just decide, ok, it did it's job, now kill it! We do not need it anymore, so it is disposable. The slaughter of innocents has no justification no matter how you look at it. We created the problem, we must solve the problem. Unfortunately much of society solutions fall to destruction. Hmmmm... wonder if one day they will find that there is too many of us. Would you sacrifice your child because he/she was eating too much and we needed to preserve the land? Surely you would not. You would fight for that childs survival. Sounds harsh again doesn't it? After all, we were only talking about a few animals here. I mean, what rights do they have? I understand that there is a problem and it must be addressed. But death does not have to be a solution. Just my thoughts. My wishes for a peaceful planet. Nikki , " cutoutcows " <cutoutcows> wrote: > I understand that humans are responsible for the introduction of these > species and habitat destruction(and so many more heartbreaking things) > and as such I think we need to look at solutions. > Sure a life is a life, but I believe there comes a point when you have > to ask is the life of this endangered bird more beneficial to this > ecosystem than the life of this introduced animal which thrives in its > native habitat? > If we allow the life of the introduced animal we are often doing so at > the expense of the endangered one. > At the present time a conservative estimate is that at least 50,000 > species of plants and animals are becomeing extinct every year- > 6 species an hour we will never see again. > If we just walk away from this we will eventually live in impoverished > biological communities; no matter where you go you will find cows, > rats, and cats, etc and no native frogs, birds... > Diversity is part of the beauty of life, and unfortunately I think > some animals must be killed for the sake of the environment, for the > sake of other animals. > I am uncomfortable with this, yet I see it as part of a solution to > the disturbing extiction crisis on our planet. > I guess I see it as some suffering is necessary to prevent greater > suffering... > > ana Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 2005 Report Share Posted July 19, 2005 Hi Ana, Don't feel alone in your opinion. I share your views - as unpopular as they may be in some forums. It is true, humans have created a huge mess - but I also feel it would equally irresponsible to wash our hands of that mess with the sanctimonious attitude " we've made our bed, now sleep in it. " As guardians of this planet, we must learn from our mistakes to prevent repeating them, search for novel/humane/palatable solutions to repair the damage we've done and, regrettably, sometimes make difficult decisions to protect the greater good. Restoration of balance and preservation of genetic diversity should be the top priority, in my opinion. FRG , " cutoutcows " <cutoutcows> wrote: > I understand that humans are responsible for the introduction of these > species and habitat destruction(and so many more heartbreaking things) > and as such I think we need to look at solutions. > Sure a life is a life, but I believe there comes a point when you have > to ask is the life of this endangered bird more beneficial to this > ecosystem than the life of this introduced animal which thrives in its > native habitat? > If we allow the life of the introduced animal we are often doing so at > the expense of the endangered one. > At the present time a conservative estimate is that at least 50,000 > species of plants and animals are becomeing extinct every year- > 6 species an hour we will never see again. > If we just walk away from this we will eventually live in impoverished > biological communities; no matter where you go you will find cows, > rats, and cats, etc and no native frogs, birds... > Diversity is part of the beauty of life, and unfortunately I think > some animals must be killed for the sake of the environment, for the > sake of other animals. > I am uncomfortable with this, yet I see it as part of a solution to > the disturbing extiction crisis on our planet. > I guess I see it as some suffering is necessary to prevent greater > suffering... > > ana Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 2005 Report Share Posted July 19, 2005 Hi Lynda > There are other options than killing. Find a cooperative vet, use humane > traps and have them neutered. This is the best options, particularly in the > case of cats. In some animals, if you catch males you can band them and > thus don't have the vet expense. It is a slow process but it does work. Slow and incredibly cruel! At least the vets do it as humanely as possible. Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 2005 Report Share Posted July 19, 2005 I think that because we have made mistakes in the past (transporting animals and plants all over the world) doesn't mean we should try to put it right. Two wrongs very rarely put it right. Jo > I understand that humans are responsible for the introduction of these > species and habitat destruction(and so many more heartbreaking things) > and as such I think we need to look at solutions. > Sure a life is a life, but I believe there comes a point when you have > to ask is the life of this endangered bird more beneficial to this > ecosystem than the life of this introduced animal which thrives in its > native habitat? > If we allow the life of the introduced animal we are often doing so at > the expense of the endangered one. > At the present time a conservative estimate is that at least 50,000 > species of plants and animals are becomeing extinct every year- > 6 species an hour we will never see again. > If we just walk away from this we will eventually live in impoverished > biological communities; no matter where you go you will find cows, > rats, and cats, etc and no native frogs, birds... > Diversity is part of the beauty of life, and unfortunately I think > some animals must be killed for the sake of the environment, for the > sake of other animals. > I am uncomfortable with this, yet I see it as part of a solution to > the disturbing extiction crisis on our planet. > I guess I see it as some suffering is necessary to prevent greater > suffering... > > ana To send an email to - > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 2005 Report Share Posted July 19, 2005 Hi Nikki I so agree with all you said, and your following says it all. BB Jo > Unfortunately much of society solutions fall to destruction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 2005 Report Share Posted July 19, 2005 Your posts are getting through - and you have answered someone on the list :-) Unless you check the polls section on you don't know there is a poll to respond to. I am on lists that I don't write to - simply for information - It is the same here. I hope you will come to like it here. Jo thank you (cutoutcows) for responding to the poll that says: " This group shows several hundred members, but how many of you are actually reading the posts and have a continued interest in VEGAN issues that affect world politics? " It is interesting to note that out of hundreds of listed users on this forum you (cutoutcows) are the only one to respond... perhaps it needs a week or more for everyone to have a chance to see it (the poll). did you receive a message announcing the poll..? or how did you know about it? my posts are not going through... so I wondered if the poll process sent out a message to members. cheers AEldwood On 19/07/2005, at 8:10 AM, cutoutcows wrote: > I understand that humans are responsible for the introduction of these > species and habitat destruction(and so many more heartbreaking things) > and as such I think we need to look at solutions. > Sure a life is a life, but I believe there comes a point when you have > to ask is the life of this endangered bird more beneficial to this > ecosystem than the life of this introduced animal which thrives in its > native habitat? > If we allow the life of the introduced animal we are often doing so at > the expense of the endangered one. > At the present time a conservative estimate is that at least 50,000 > species of plants and animals are becomeing extinct every year- > 6 species an hour we will never see again. > If we just walk away from this we will eventually live in impoverished > biological communities; no matter where you go you will find cows, > rats, and cats, etc and no native frogs, birds... > Diversity is part of the beauty of life, and unfortunately I think > some animals must be killed for the sake of the environment, for the > sake of other animals. > I am uncomfortable with this, yet I see it as part of a solution to > the disturbing extiction crisis on our planet. > I guess I see it as some suffering is necessary to prevent greater > suffering... > > ana To send an email to - > > > > > â–ª Visit your group " " on the web. > > â–ª Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 2005 Report Share Posted July 19, 2005 I presume band them means a rubber band around the testicles so they eventually drop off. Ughh! I am a woman, but can imagine !!! I presume Lynda's husband is too scared to say he doesn't want anymore kids :-) Jo > Hi Lynda > > > There are other options than killing. Find a cooperative vet, use humane > > traps and have them neutered. This is the best options, particularly in > the > > case of cats. In some animals, if you catch males you can band them and > > thus don't have the vet expense. It is a slow process but it does work. > > Slow and incredibly cruel! At least the vets do it as humanely as possible. > > Peter > > > > To send an email to - > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 20, 2005 Report Share Posted July 20, 2005 If it were me, I'd prefer the extermination! BB Nikki *still chuckling at Jo's comment* , " Jo Cwazy " <heartwork@c...> wrote: > I presume band them means a rubber band around the testicles so they > eventually drop off. Ughh! I am a woman, but can imagine !!! > > I presume Lynda's husband is too scared to say he doesn't want anymore kids > :-) > > Jo > > > > Hi Lynda > > > > > There are other options than killing. Find a cooperative vet, use > humane > > > traps and have them neutered. This is the best options, particularly in > > the > > > case of cats. In some animals, if you catch males you can band them and > > > thus don't have the vet expense. It is a slow process but it does work. > > > > Slow and incredibly cruel! At least the vets do it as humanely as > possible. > > > > Peter > > > > > > > > To send an email to - > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 20, 2005 Report Share Posted July 20, 2005 Lynda's children are all the result of birth control <g> In fact, I've told them I might change their names to indicate the type that failed <<eg>> He was quite happy when the birth control methods started working and, in fact, volunteered for the Golden Scissors. Lynda - " Jo Cwazy " <heartwork Tuesday, July 19, 2005 1:14 PM Re: invasive speicies > I presume band them means a rubber band around the testicles so they > eventually drop off. Ughh! I am a woman, but can imagine !!! > > I presume Lynda's husband is too scared to say he doesn't want anymore kids > :-) > > Jo > > > > Hi Lynda > > > > > There are other options than killing. Find a cooperative vet, use > humane > > > traps and have them neutered. This is the best options, particularly in > > the > > > case of cats. In some animals, if you catch males you can band them and > > > thus don't have the vet expense. It is a slow process but it does work. > > > > Slow and incredibly cruel! At least the vets do it as humanely as > possible. > > > > Peter > > > > > > > > To send an email to - > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 21, 2005 Report Share Posted July 21, 2005 YOu know I was only joking, don't you :-) I think the snip is okay when it's done voluntarily - a good idea in fact. Jo , " Lynda " <lurine@s...> wrote: > Lynda's children are all the result of birth control <g> In fact, I've told > them I might change their names to indicate the type that failed <<eg>> He > was quite happy when the birth control methods started working and, in fact, > volunteered for the Golden Scissors. > > Lynda > - > " Jo Cwazy " <heartwork@c...> > > Tuesday, July 19, 2005 1:14 PM > Re: invasive speicies > > > > I presume band them means a rubber band around the testicles so they > > eventually drop off. Ughh! I am a woman, but can imagine !!! > > > > I presume Lynda's husband is too scared to say he doesn't want anymore > kids > > :-) > > > > Jo > > > > > > > Hi Lynda > > > > > > > There are other options than killing. Find a cooperative vet, use > > humane > > > > traps and have them neutered. This is the best options, particularly > in > > > the > > > > case of cats. In some animals, if you catch males you can band them > and > > > > thus don't have the vet expense. It is a slow process but it does > work. > > > > > > Slow and incredibly cruel! At least the vets do it as humanely as > > possible. > > > > > > Peter > > > > > > > > > > > > To send an email to - > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 23, 2005 Report Share Posted July 23, 2005 Stop it Jo, if it aint broken, don`t fix it! The Valley Vegan..........heartwerk <heartwork wrote: YOu know I was only joking, don't you :-)I think the snip is okay when it's done voluntarily - a good idea in fact.Jo , "Lynda" wrote:> Lynda's children are all the result of birth control In fact, I've told> them I might change their names to indicate the type that failed <> He> was quite happy when the birth control methods started working and, in fact,> volunteered for the Golden Scissors.> > Lynda> - > "Jo Cwazy" > > Tuesday, July 19, 2005 1:14 PM> Re: invasive speicies> > > > I presume band them means a rubber band around the testicles so they> > eventually drop off. Ughh! I am a woman, but can imagine !!!> >> > I presume Lynda's husband is too scared to say he doesn't want anymore> kids> > :-)> >> > Jo> >> >> > > Hi Lynda> > >> > > > There are other options than killing. Find a cooperative vet, use> > humane> > > > traps and have them neutered. This is the best options, particularly> in> > > the> > > > case of cats. In some animals, if you catch males you can band them> and> > > > thus don't have the vet expense. It is a slow process but it does> work.> > >> > > Slow and incredibly cruel! At least the vets do it as humanely as> > possible.> > >> > > Peter> > >> > >> > >> > > To send an email to - > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 23, 2005 Report Share Posted July 23, 2005 Hi Peter > Stop it Jo, if it aint broken, don`t fix it! Very witty pun! I'm impressed :-) BB Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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