OT the equality of women

August 8, 2005

It maybe true in the corporate sector, I don't know because I am not there. And I am not there, not because of any perceived "glass ceiling"...I am not there because I do not want to be!

As a woman in the US I do not feel to be a victim at all. I feel I can do almost anything I want with my given talents. I also know that more women then men are in college and that women handle their money better than men (in general). I also know that most small businesses are now started by women. In many areas women are succeeding more than men. I am not happy about this...just what is happening. We have a lot of gifts that men do not have and visa versa...so I have no grievances. I know women who own beauty salons and raking it in...women in real estate raking it in....women who are in the self-help world and raking it in. No one is stopping them. They are captain of their ship in this country.

And I also know a lot of white males, who I like, who have struggled enormously. And, they still are struggling.

If I were to divide the world up into those who are privileged and those that are not...I would say it's between those who have smarts and those who are not as smart, between those who are socially adept and those that are less so, and those that are extroverted and those that are not, those who are willing to compromise their values for money and those who do not and those who have access to credit and those that do not. These are real limitations to corporate success, not one's gender/face/family...etc.

I can hear the vegan feathers I've ruffled right now...(LOL Kidding!!!)

Kristina

In a message dated 8/8/05 1:16:54 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, writes:

Message: 8 Mon, 8 Aug 2005 18:42:49 +0100 "Michael Benis" <michael.benisRE: Re: OT equality of womenCan corroborate that. IN fact the difference is closer to 30% than 10%.There is also a very "robust" glass ceiling. Also, to be crude, women haveto put up with a lot more mistreatment than men, and it's not much fun forthem either.Mike (happy to be freelance, even if it means I work all the time....) _____ OnBehalf Of Peter08 August 2005 18:13 Subject: Re: Re: OT equality of womenHi Kristina> As a female in the US I don't feel unequal at all. I feel I can go ashigh as my brains and talents will take me. I don't feel any laws> or the government is against me in anyway. Of all the problems in theworld this is something I have never worried about...as the> sisters ahead of me have taken care of it (and I am grateful). I don't know about the US, but in the UK there is still a clear inequalityin terms of employment opportunities. 99% of top business executives aremen, there is a disproportionate amount of male to female MPs, councillors,etc., and in general, women are paid something like 10% less than men forequivalent jobs. It's strange, because there is supposed to be equalitylegislation to prevent this, but it simply doesn't have an effect.Of course, we have improved a lot since the 1970s, and that should berecognised, but there's still a way to go before we have genuine equality inthe UK.BBPeterTo send an email to - [This message contained attachments]

August 9, 2005

Hi Kristina

> It maybe true in the corporate sector, I don't know because I am not there. And I am not there, not because of any perceived

> "glass ceiling"...I am not there because I do not want to be!

So, just because you don't want to be there, no-one else with similar genitalia should want to be there????

> As a woman in the US I do not feel to be a victim at all. I feel I can do almost anything I want with my given talents.

Perhaps this is because what you want is what has been generally associated with what is considered socially acceptable for women to do?

> If I were to divide the world up into those who are privileged and those that are not...I would say it's between those who have

> smarts and those who are not as smart, between those who are socially adept and those that are less so,

Oh my word... Margaret Thatcher is back to haunt us! :-)

BB

Peter

August 9, 2005

Hi Kristina,

The strides that your are talking about are very very recent in the history of mankind.

and while they are commendable, there is still a lot of comprehenseion and acceptance needed between the two sexes.

differences must be acknowledge, men are just better at some things and women are better at some things.

but the bottom line is that Today, in 2005 there isn't a single holiday on my calendar because of a female.

there has yet to be a woman president, just three decades ago, women were expected to wears skirts to work, make coffee, be secretaries.

These changes are all very recent and we haven't quite gotten the respect that we deserve.

Men I feel are stifled in their roles. They are stuck being a stereotype, with no freedom whatsoever to be individuals and are often unhappy because of this, plus they have lost touch with their feelings, because they are unable to express them.

Things are definately improving, but I have a lot of issues with the way Media portrays both men and women. Women are still portrayed as sexual and men are still portrayed as dummies.

-anouk

-

Cc: Lv2breathe

8/8/2005 9:02:22 PM

Re: OT the equality of women

It maybe true in the corporate sector, I don't know because I am not there. And I am not there, not because of any perceived "glass ceiling"...I am not there because I do not want to be!

As a woman in the US I do not feel to be a victim at all. I feel I can do almost anything I want with my given talents. I also know that more women then men are in college and that women handle their money better than men (in general). I also know that most small businesses are now started by women. In many areas women are succeeding more than men. I am not happy about this...just what is happening. We have a lot of gifts that men do not have and visa versa...so I have no grievances. I know women who own beauty salons and raking it in...women in real estate raking it in....women who are in the self-help world and raking it in. No one is stopping them. They are captain of their ship in this country.

And I also know a lot of white males, who I like, who have struggled enormously. And, they still are struggling.

If I were to divide the world up into those who are privileged and those that are not...I would say it's between those who have smarts and those who are not as smart, between those who are socially adept and those that are less so, and those that are extroverted and those that are not, those who are willing to compromise their values for money and those who do not and those who have access to credit and those that do not. These are real limitations to corporate success, not one's gender/face/family...etc.

I can hear the vegan feathers I've ruffled right now...(LOL Kidding!!!)

Kristina

In a message dated 8/8/05 1:16:54 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, writes:

Message: 8 Mon, 8 Aug 2005 18:42:49 +0100 "Michael Benis" <michael.benisRE: Re: OT equality of womenCan corroborate that. IN fact the difference is closer to 30% than 10%.There is also a very "robust" glass ceiling. Also, to be crude, women haveto put up with a lot more mistreatment than men, and it's not much fun forthem either.Mike (happy to be freelance, even if it means I work all the time....) _____ OnBehalf Of Peter08 August 2005 18:13 Subject: Re: Re: OT equality of womenHi Kristina> As a female in the US I don't feel unequal at all. I feel I can go ashigh as my brains and talents will take me. I don't feel any laws> or the government is against me in anyway. Of all the problems in theworld this is something I have never worried about...as the> sisters ahead of me have taken care of it (and I am grateful). I don't know about the US, but in the UK there is still a clear inequalityin terms of employment opportunities. 99% of top business executives aremen, there is a disproportionate amount of male to female MPs, councillors,etc., and in general, women are paid something like 10% less than men forequivalent jobs. It's strange, because there is supposed to be equalitylegislation to prevent this, but it simply doesn't have an effect.Of course, we have improved a lot since the 1970s, and that should berecognised, but there's still a way to go before we have genuine equality inthe UK.BBPeterTo send an email to - [This message contained attachments]

August 9, 2005

The figures over here suggest that the biggest debtors are women in their 30s so maybe women don't handle their money better than men.

Jo

.. I also know that more women then men are in college and that women handle their money better than men (in general).

August 9, 2005

HI Anouk

Our adverts are like that here now. I think they have gone overboard on making men look stupid.

Jo

Things are definately improving, but I have a lot of issues with the way Media portrays both men and women. Women are still portrayed as sexual and men are still portrayed as dummies.

-anouk

-

Cc: Lv2breathe

8/8/2005 9:02:22 PM

Re: OT the equality of women

It maybe true in the corporate sector, I don't know because I am not there. And I am not there, not because of any perceived "glass ceiling"...I am not there because I do not want to be!

As a woman in the US I do not feel to be a victim at all. I feel I can do almost anything I want with my given talents. I also know that more women then men are in college and that women handle their money better than men (in general). I also know that most small businesses are now started by women. In many areas women are succeeding more than men. I am not happy about this...just what is happening. We have a lot of gifts that men do not have and visa versa...so I have no grievances. I know women who own beauty salons and raking it in...women in real estate raking it in....women who are in the self-help world and raking it in. No one is stopping them. They are captain of their ship in this country.

And I also know a lot of white males, who I like, who have struggled enormously. And, they still are struggling.

If I were to divide the world up into those who are privileged and those that are not...I would say it's between those who have smarts and those who are not as smart, between those who are socially adept and those that are less so, and those that are extroverted and those that are not, those who are willing to compromise their values for money and those who do not and those who have access to credit and those that do not. These are real limitations to corporate success, not one's gender/face/family...etc.

I can hear the vegan feathers I've ruffled right now...(LOL Kidding!!!)

Kristina

In a message dated 8/8/05 1:16:54 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, writes:

Message: 8 Mon, 8 Aug 2005 18:42:49 +0100 "Michael Benis" <michael.benisRE: Re: OT equality of womenCan corroborate that. IN fact the difference is closer to 30% than 10%.There is also a very "robust" glass ceiling. Also, to be crude, women haveto put up with a lot more mistreatment than men, and it's not much fun forthem either.Mike (happy to be freelance, even if it means I work all the time....) _____ OnBehalf Of Peter08 August 2005 18:13 Subject: Re: Re: OT equality of womenHi Kristina> As a female in the US I don't feel unequal at all. I feel I can go ashigh as my brains and talents will take me. I don't feel any laws> or the government is against me in anyway. Of all the problems in theworld this is something I have never worried about...as the> sisters ahead of me have taken care of it (and I am grateful). I don't know about the US, but in the UK there is still a clear inequalityin terms of employment opportunities. 99% of top business executives aremen, there is a disproportionate amount of male to female MPs, councillors,etc., and in general, women are paid something like 10% less than men forequivalent jobs. It's strange, because there is supposed to be equalitylegislation to prevent this, but it simply doesn't have an effect.Of course, we have improved a lot since the 1970s, and that should berecognised, but there's still a way to go before we have genuine equality inthe UK.BBPeterTo send an email to - [This message contained attachments]

August 11, 2005

In a message dated 8/8/05 10:26:32 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, writes:

Message: 6 Tue, 9 Aug 2005 02:17:01 +0100 "Peter" <metalscarabRe: Re:OT equality of womenHi KristinaI'm going to have to stop in a moment, since it's just gone 2am, but just a couple more posts!!!!> It's an opportunity to show them that women can run businesses, be the boss, and do lots of things.If there wasn't inequality, there would be no need to "show them" that women can run a business, because it would be accepted as perfectly natural!

Peter. I only ask for the equality of law. That I have a right to have property, to own a business, to inherit and be the captain of my ship. I don't really care if those men can accept me or not because I have what I need. Just because they maybe uncomfortable with my making the decisions does not, in my mind, make me "unequal". And I certainly don't want any laws passed forcing these men to treat me a certain way, I can handle it myself, thank you very much.

The world will never be a completely egalitarian equal place. What makes us strong is what we do with this. I think it's better that women pave their own in life rather than asking government for protection here and there.

> Also, I love all the benefits of being female...I am willing to put up with these inconveniences for the privilege.But are you really in a position to make that decision for 51% of the world's population?

Peter...for other women in other parts of the world I DO acknowledge REAL inequalities. I agree for so many women in the world there are serious life and death issues regarding their gender. But in the US I feel ridiculous complaining. So, the answer is NO....I would actively fight for women in other countries to have the freedoms I have. I feel very lucky, indeed. I am a free woman and I can do what I want, wear what I want, own a business, invest, inherit, travel...whatever!

BBPeter[This message contained attachments]

August 11, 2005

In a message dated 8/8/05 10:26:32 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, writes:

Message: 9 Mon, 8 Aug 2005 22:10:04 -0400 "zurumato" <zurumatoRE: Re: OT the equality of womenHi Kristina, The strides that your are talking about are very very recent in the history of mankind. and while they are commendable, there is still a lot of comprehenseion and acceptance needed between the two sexes. differences must be acknowledge, men are just better at some things and women are better at some things. but the bottom line is that Today, in 2005 there isn't a single holiday on my calendar because of a female. there has yet to be a woman president, just three decades ago, women were expected to wears skirts to work, make coffee, be secretaries.

What's so bad about making coffee? I like to be hospital and of service to others. I wouldn't mind it at all. You know, I almost think this is a testament to the quality of women. We are so full of ego that we can't make some coffee!!!!

These changes are all very recent and we haven't quite gotten the respect that we deserve.

Well we can have different opinions, of course. I personally don't need to have a holiday on my calendar of a woman or a woman president to feel good about being a woman. If I want to read about great woman I can read a biography...I don't have to have society make a holiday of her to feel validated.

Men I feel are stifled in their roles. They are stuck being a stereotype, with no freedom whatsoever to be individuals and are often unhappy because of this, plus they have lost touch with their feelings, because they are unable to express them.

I am not against men becoming aware of their feelings. Not at all.

Things are definately improving, but I have a lot of issues with the way Media portrays both men and women. Women are still portrayed as sexual and men are still portrayed as dummies.

You know, I have to agree with you here. In our society, the women that are valued are the "hot" ones with the Hollywood look. It's like looking sexy is everything at the expense of every other quality humans can have. Also, anyone middle aged and up are ignored which I think is a sickness.

I don't know about the men=dummies part...but if you are talking about folks like Ben Affleck than maybe yes!!! hahaha

-anouk- Cc: Lv2breatheSent: 8/8/2005 9:02:22 PM Re: OT the equality of women It maybe true in the corporate sector, I don't know because I am not there. And I am not there, not because of any perceived "glass ceiling"...I am not there because I do not want to be!As a woman in the US I do not feel to be a victim at all. I feel I can do almost anything I want with my given talents. I also know that more women then men are in college and that women handle their money better than men (in general). I also know that most small businesses are now started by women. In many areas women are succeeding more than men. I am not happy about this...just what is happening. We have a lot of gifts that men do not have and visa versa...so I have no grievances. I know women who own beauty salons and raking it in...women in real estate raking it in....women who are in the self-help world and raking it in. No one is stopping them. They are captain of their ship in this country. And I also know a lot of white males, who I like, who have struggled enormously. And, they still are struggling. If I were to divide the world up into those who are privileged and those that are not...I would say it's between those who have smarts and those who are not as smart, between those who are socially adept and those that are less so, and those that are extroverted and those that are not, those who are willing to compromise their values for money and those who do not and those who have access to credit and those that do not. These are real limitations to corporate success, not one's gender/face/family...etc.I can hear the vegan feathers I've ruffled right now...(LOL Kidding!!!) KristinaIn a message dated 8/8/05 1:16:54 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, writes:Message: 8 Mon, 8 Aug 2005 18:42:49 +0100 "Michael Benis" <michael.benisRE: Re: OT equality of womenCan corroborate that. IN fact the difference is closer to 30% than 10%.There is also a very "robust" glass ceiling. Also, to be crude, women haveto put up with a lot more mistreatment than men, and it's not much fun forthem either.Mike (happy to be freelance, even if it means I work all the time....) _____ OnBehalf Of Peter08 August 2005 18:13 Subject: Re: Re: OT equality of womenHi Kristina> As a female in the US I don't feel unequal at all. I feel I can go ashigh as my brains and talents will take me. I don't feel any laws> or the government is against me in anyway. Of all the problems in theworld this is something I have never worried about...as the> sisters ahead of me have taken care of it (and I am grateful). I don't know about the US, but in the UK there is still a clear inequalityin terms of employment opportunities. 99% of top business executives aremen, there is a disproportionate amount of male to female MPs, councillors,etc., and in general, women are paid something like 10% less than men forequivalent jobs. It's strange, because there is supposed to be equalitylegislation to prevent this, but it simply doesn't have an effect.Of course, we have improved a lot since the 1970s, and that should berecognised, but there's still a way to go before we have genuine equality inthe UK.BBPeter

August 12, 2005

I think you have missed the point - in the past all the top people in companies have been men. They promoted their friends to the top jobs to take over from them, and these men in turn promoted their friends to the top jobs etc. etc. I think it is called the old boys network. What this means is that you can get to the top by who you know not how good you are, and in most cases it is almost impossible for women to break through this old boy network and get good top jobs. It is not a case of what the law says.

Jo

-

lv2breathe

Cc: Lv2breathe

Thursday, August 11, 2005 9:44 PM

Re: OT the equality of women

In a message dated 8/8/05 10:26:32 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, writes:

Message: 6 Tue, 9 Aug 2005 02:17:01 +0100 "Peter" <metalscarabRe: Re:OT equality of womenHi KristinaI'm going to have to stop in a moment, since it's just gone 2am, but just a couple more posts!!!!> It's an opportunity to show them that women can run businesses, be the boss, and do lots of things.If there wasn't inequality, there would be no need to "show them" that women can run a business, because it would be accepted as perfectly natural!

Peter. I only ask for the equality of law. That I have a right to have property, to own a business, to inherit and be the captain of my ship. I don't really care if those men can accept me or not because I have what I need. Just because they maybe uncomfortable with my making the decisions does not, in my mind, make me "unequal". And I certainly don't want any laws passed forcing these men to treat me a certain way, I can handle it myself, thank you very much.

The world will never be a completely egalitarian equal place. What makes us strong is what we do with this. I think it's better that women pave their own in life rather than asking government for protection here and there.

> Also, I love all the benefits of being female...I am willing to put up with these inconveniences for the privilege.But are you really in a position to make that decision for 51% of the world's population?

Peter...for other women in other parts of the world I DO acknowledge REAL inequalities. I agree for so many women in the world there are serious life and death issues regarding their gender. But in the US I feel ridiculous complaining. So, the answer is NO....I would actively fight for women in other countries to have the freedoms I have. I feel very lucky, indeed. I am a free woman and I can do what I want, wear what I want, own a business, invest, inherit, travel...whatever!

BBPeter[This message contained attachments]

August 12, 2005

There is nothing wrong with making coffee as long as you are not the one who makes it for everyone else all the time.

Jo

-

lv2breathe

Cc: Lv2breathe

Thursday, August 11, 2005 9:54 PM