Guest guest Posted August 15, 2005 Report Share Posted August 15, 2005 Comments: The speech is very positive. However, here is how this can be interpreted. If India doesn't prepare for energy independence and to counter Global warming, India can expect a double whammy within the next 25 to 50 years !!!! This is a real strong warning and a great indication of peak oil. Vijay Kalam wants big push to river linking project Press Trust of India New Delhi, August 14, 2005 With the devastation caused by the recent floods in Maharashtra and other states fresh in memory, President APJ Abdul Kalam on Sunday said the ambitious project of interlinking of rivers should be implemented with a " sense of urgency " and efforts should be made to overcome " various hurdles " in its way. Addressing the nation on the eve of 59th Independence Day, the First Citizen stressed the need for achieving " Energy Independence " by evolving a comprehensive renewable energy policy and accelerating research for forecasting earthquakes. " While we are celebrating 59th anniversary of our hard-earned political independence, we have to remember the sufferings of our people affected by the recent rains and floods in Maharashtra, Gujarat, Madhya Pradesh, Himachal Pradesh, Karnataka and Orissa, " Kalam said in the address which entirely focussed on science and technology aspects. Reminding that Mumbai and other areas of Maharashtra had borne the brunt of nature's fury, he said " rainfall and floods are annual features in many parts of the country. " He emphasised that " instead of thinking about interlinking of rivers only at times of flood and drought, it is time that we implement this programme with a great sense of urgency. " We need to make an effort to overcome various hurdles in our way to the implementation of this major project. I feel that it has the promise of freeing the country from the endless cycle of floods and droughts. " Pointing out that earthquakes were another natural phenomenon that affects and causes damages of high magnitude without pre-warning in many parts of the country, the renowned Scientist-President said there was a need to " accelerate research " for forecasting quakes. Research work on earthquake forecasting is being done in many countries, Kalam said, adding in India also there should be an integrated research team consisting of experts drawn from academia, meteorology and space departments for creating earthquake forecast modelling using pre-earthquake and post-earthquake data collected from various earthquake occurrences in the country. This can be validated periodically with the proven forecasting data available from other countries, he said. Kalam noted that in the wake of successive calamities driven by nature across the world, many countries have started pursuing inter-disciplinary area of research, known as Earth Systems Science. It, he said, is fast emerging as an area of convergence between earth, climate, ocean, environment, instrumentation and computer sciences. " I strongly suggest that India should mount a programme in this emerging area of Earth Systems Science. This will call for a dedicated, cohesive and seamless integration between researchers in multiple areas an in multiple organisations, " he said. Delving upon the issue of energy, Kalam said: " Energy Independence " has to be India's " first and highest priority " and the country must be determined to achieve this within the next 25 years. " This one major 25-year national mission must be formulated, funds guaranteed and leadership entrusted without delay as public-private partnerships to our younger generation, now in their 30's, as their lifetime mission in a renewed drive for nation-building, " the President said. Noting that India has 17 per cent of the world's population but just 0.8 per cent of the world's known oil and natural gas resources, he emphasised the need for developing " energy security " , considering it is the lifeline of modern societies. " Energy security, which means ensuring that our country can supply life-line energy to all its citizens, at affordable costs at all times, is thus a very important and significant need and is an essential step forward, " he said. " But it must be considered as a transition strategy to enable us to achieve our real goal, that is Energy Independence or an economy which will function well with total freedom from oil, gas or coal imports, " Kalam said. He underlined that the strategic goals for energy independence by 2030 would call for a shift in the structure of energy sources. " For true energy independence, a major shift in the structure of energy sources from fossil to renewable energy sources is mandated, " he said. The President said the country needed to critically look at the requirement for energy independence in different ways in two major sectors -- electric power generation and transportation. He emphasised the greater need for tapping energy sources such as solar and nuclear energy besides generating power from municipal wastes. By 2030, Kalam said, the demand from the power sector will increase to 400,000 MW from existing 120,000 MW, assuming an energy growth rate of five per cent per annum. At present, the country has an installed capacity of about 121,000 MW of electricity, which is three per cent of the world capacity, Kalam said adding the country also depends on oil to the extent of 114 million tonnes every year, 75 per cent of which is imported and used almost entirely in the transportation sector. He said electric power generation in the country at present accesses four basic energy sources -- fossil fuels such as oil, natural gas and coal; hydroelectricity; nuclear power and renewable energy sources as bio-fuels, solar, biomass, wind and ocean. On using nuclear energy sources, the President said there would be a requirement for a 10-fold increase in nuclear power generation even to attain a reasonable degree of energy self-sufficiency for the country. " Therefore, it is essential to pursue the development of nuclear power using thorium, reserves of which are higher in the country, " he said. Kalam said technology development has to be accelerated for thorium-based reactors since the raw material for thorium is abundantly available in the country. Nuclear fusion research, he said, also needs to be progressed with international cooperation to keep the option for meeting the large power requirement at a time when fossil fuels get depleted. Referring to generating power from municipal wastes, he said studies indicate that as much as 5800 MW of electricity can be generated by setting up 900 plants spread over different parts of the country. " Electric power generation and creation of clean environment are the twin advantages, " the President said. Describing transportation sector as the fastest growing energy consumer, he said it consumes nearly 112 million tonnes of oil annually and is critically important for the nation's economy and security. " The complete substitution of oil imports for the transportation sectors is the biggest and toughest challenge for India, " he said. Kalam said bio-fuel also has a significant potential to lead the country towards energy independence, noting that India has the potential to produce nearly 60 million tonnes of this energy source annually. " What is needed is a full economic chain from farming, harvesting, extraction to esterification, blending and marketing, " he said. The President said by 2020, India should achieve comprehensive energy security through enhancement of our oil and gas exploration and production worldwide. By year 2030, the country should achieve energy independence through solar power and other forms of renewable energy, maximise the utilisation of hydro and nuclear power and enhance bio-fuel production through large-scale energy plantations like Jatropha, he said. " We need to evolve a comprehensive renewable energy policy for energy independence within a year, " he said adding it should address all issues relating to generation of energy through wind, solar, geothermal, biomass and ocean. " Energy security leading to energy independence is certainly possible and is within the capability of the nation, " he said. India has knowledge and natural resources and " what we need is planned integrated missions to achieve the target in a time-bound manner, " Kalam added. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 15, 2005 Report Share Posted August 15, 2005 what exactly does this interlinking project mean? what is going to happen? and..oh goodie..more nuclear power plants..just what they need *shakes head* rvijay <rvijay07 Aug 14, 2005 4:40 PM Kalam wants big push to river linking project Comments: The speech is very positive. However, here is how this can be interpreted. If India doesn't prepare for energy independence and to counter Global warming, India can expect a double whammy within the next 25 to 50 years !!!! This is a real strong warning and a great indication of peak oil. Vijay Kalam wants big push to river linking project Press Trust of India New Delhi, August 14, 2005 With the devastation caused by the recent floods in Maharashtra and other states fresh in memory, President APJ Abdul Kalam on Sunday said the ambitious project of interlinking of rivers should be implemented with a " sense of urgency " and efforts should be made to overcome " various hurdles " in its way. Addressing the nation on the eve of 59th Independence Day, the First Citizen stressed the need for achieving " Energy Independence " by evolving a comprehensive renewable energy policy and accelerating research for forecasting earthquakes. " While we are celebrating 59th anniversary of our hard-earned political independence, we have to remember the sufferings of our people affected by the recent rains and floods in Maharashtra, Gujarat, Madhya Pradesh, Himachal Pradesh, Karnataka and Orissa, " Kalam said in the address which entirely focussed on science and technology aspects. Reminding that Mumbai and other areas of Maharashtra had borne the brunt of nature's fury, he said " rainfall and floods are annual features in many parts of the country. " He emphasised that " instead of thinking about interlinking of rivers only at times of flood and drought, it is time that we implement this programme with a great sense of urgency. " We need to make an effort to overcome various hurdles in our way to the implementation of this major project. I feel that it has the promise of freeing the country from the endless cycle of floods and droughts. " Pointing out that earthquakes were another natural phenomenon that affects and causes damages of high magnitude without pre-warning in many parts of the country, the renowned Scientist-President said there was a need to " accelerate research " for forecasting quakes. Research work on earthquake forecasting is being done in many countries, Kalam said, adding in India also there should be an integrated research team consisting of experts drawn from academia, meteorology and space departments for creating earthquake forecast modelling using pre-earthquake and post-earthquake data collected from various earthquake occurrences in the country. This can be validated periodically with the proven forecasting data available from other countries, he said. Kalam noted that in the wake of successive calamities driven by nature across the world, many countries have started pursuing inter-disciplinary area of research, known as Earth Systems Science. It, he said, is fast emerging as an area of convergence between earth, climate, ocean, environment, instrumentation and computer sciences. " I strongly suggest that India should mount a programme in this emerging area of Earth Systems Science. This will call for a dedicated, cohesive and seamless integration between researchers in multiple areas an in multiple organisations, " he said. Delving upon the issue of energy, Kalam said: " Energy Independence " has to be India's " first and highest priority " and the country must be determined to achieve this within the next 25 years. " This one major 25-year national mission must be formulated, funds guaranteed and leadership entrusted without delay as public-private partnerships to our younger generation, now in their 30's, as their lifetime mission in a renewed drive for nation-building, " the President said. Noting that India has 17 per cent of the world's population but just 0.8 per cent of the world's known oil and natural gas resources, he emphasised the need for developing " energy security " , considering it is the lifeline of modern societies. " Energy security, which means ensuring that our country can supply life-line energy to all its citizens, at affordable costs at all times, is thus a very important and significant need and is an essential step forward, " he said. " But it must be considered as a transition strategy to enable us to achieve our real goal, that is Energy Independence or an economy which will function well with total freedom from oil, gas or coal imports, " Kalam said. He underlined that the strategic goals for energy independence by 2030 would call for a shift in the structure of energy sources. " For true energy independence, a major shift in the structure of energy sources from fossil to renewable energy sources is mandated, " he said. The President said the country needed to critically look at the requirement for energy independence in different ways in two major sectors -- electric power generation and transportation. He emphasised the greater need for tapping energy sources such as solar and nuclear energy besides generating power from municipal wastes. By 2030, Kalam said, the demand from the power sector will increase to 400,000 MW from existing 120,000 MW, assuming an energy growth rate of five per cent per annum. At present, the country has an installed capacity of about 121,000 MW of electricity, which is three per cent of the world capacity, Kalam said adding the country also depends on oil to the extent of 114 million tonnes every year, 75 per cent of which is imported and used almost entirely in the transportation sector. He said electric power generation in the country at present accesses four basic energy sources -- fossil fuels such as oil, natural gas and coal; hydroelectricity; nuclear power and renewable energy sources as bio-fuels, solar, biomass, wind and ocean. On using nuclear energy sources, the President said there would be a requirement for a 10-fold increase in nuclear power generation even to attain a reasonable degree of energy self-sufficiency for the country. " Therefore, it is essential to pursue the development of nuclear power using thorium, reserves of which are higher in the country, " he said. Kalam said technology development has to be accelerated for thorium-based reactors since the raw material for thorium is abundantly available in the country. Nuclear fusion research, he said, also needs to be progressed with international cooperation to keep the option for meeting the large power requirement at a time when fossil fuels get depleted. Referring to generating power from municipal wastes, he said studies indicate that as much as 5800 MW of electricity can be generated by setting up 900 plants spread over different parts of the country. " Electric power generation and creation of clean environment are the twin advantages, " the President said. Describing transportation sector as the fastest growing energy consumer, he said it consumes nearly 112 million tonnes of oil annually and is critically important for the nation's economy and security. " The complete substitution of oil imports for the transportation sectors is the biggest and toughest challenge for India, " he said. Kalam said bio-fuel also has a significant potential to lead the country towards energy independence, noting that India has the potential to produce nearly 60 million tonnes of this energy source annually. " What is needed is a full economic chain from farming, harvesting, extraction to esterification, blending and marketing, " he said. The President said by 2020, India should achieve comprehensive energy security through enhancement of our oil and gas exploration and production worldwide. By year 2030, the country should achieve energy independence through solar power and other forms of renewable energy, maximise the utilisation of hydro and nuclear power and enhance bio-fuel production through large-scale energy plantations like Jatropha, he said. " We need to evolve a comprehensive renewable energy policy for energy independence within a year, " he said adding it should address all issues relating to generation of energy through wind, solar, geothermal, biomass and ocean. " Energy security leading to energy independence is certainly possible and is within the capability of the nation, " he said. India has knowledge and natural resources and " what we need is planned integrated missions to achieve the target in a time-bound manner, " Kalam added. To send an email to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 15, 2005 Report Share Posted August 15, 2005 , fraggle <EBbrewpunx@e...> wrote: > what exactly does this interlinking project mean? > what is going to happen? > > and..oh goodie..more nuclear power plants..just what they need > *shakes head* > I guess he wants to connect all the rivers, or atleast a few, so that if it rains in one place, then instead of floods, this rain water gets diverted to all the other rivers. One can only wait and see. GE struck a deal with India for Nuclear. Vijay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 15, 2005 Report Share Posted August 15, 2005 interesting in the future tho they'll prolly be unforseen consequences while floods are immensely destructive..they are also a natural part of the way things work this isn't much different then the US Army Corp of Engineers straightening rivers, and building dikes, and all that leading to all sorts of issues here..loss of wetlands, loss of soil fertility, water tables dropping, etc and..eventually...nature is gonna win anyways rvijay <rvijay07 Aug 15, 2005 12:36 PM Re: Kalam wants big push to river linking project , fraggle <EBbrewpunx@e...> wrote: > what exactly does this interlinking project mean? > what is going to happen? > > and..oh goodie..more nuclear power plants..just what they need > *shakes head* > I guess he wants to connect all the rivers, or atleast a few, so that if it rains in one place, then instead of floods, this rain water gets diverted to all the other rivers. One can only wait and see. GE struck a deal with India for Nuclear. Vijay To send an email to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 15, 2005 Report Share Posted August 15, 2005 , fraggle <EBbrewpunx@e...> wrote: > interesting > > in the future tho they'll prolly be unforseen consequences > while floods are immensely destructive..they are also a natural part of the way things work > > this isn't much different then the US Army Corp of Engineers straightening rivers, and building dikes, and all that > leading to all sorts of issues here..loss of wetlands, loss of soil fertility, water tables dropping, etc > > and..eventually...nature is gonna win anyways > True nature rules. After all we got Global Warming, not cooling. Several in other groups feel we are very negative. Nanotech could lead the future for alternative fuels etc.,. Life goes on etc., Also US is too weak and spread out/has no Intl. support to attack Iran, even if they attack Iran everything will be OK etc., It is hard to say. However, we had this long discussion before and one by one everything seems to be comming true as discussed. Vijay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 15, 2005 Report Share Posted August 15, 2005 if they attack iran, everything will be ok? you've got a strange way of viewing " ok " vijay... rvijay <rvijay07 Aug 15, 2005 12:55 PM Re: Kalam wants big push to river linking project , fraggle <EBbrewpunx@e...> wrote: > interesting > > in the future tho they'll prolly be unforseen consequences > while floods are immensely destructive..they are also a natural part of the way things work > > this isn't much different then the US Army Corp of Engineers straightening rivers, and building dikes, and all that > leading to all sorts of issues here..loss of wetlands, loss of soil fertility, water tables dropping, etc > > and..eventually...nature is gonna win anyways > True nature rules. After all we got Global Warming, not cooling. Several in other groups feel we are very negative. Nanotech could lead the future for alternative fuels etc.,. Life goes on etc., Also US is too weak and spread out/has no Intl. support to attack Iran, even if they attack Iran everything will be OK etc., It is hard to say. However, we had this long discussion before and one by one everything seems to be comming true as discussed. Vijay To send an email to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 15, 2005 Report Share Posted August 15, 2005 , fraggle <EBbrewpunx@e...> wrote: > if they attack iran, everything will be ok? > you've got a strange way of viewing " ok " vijay... > US attacked IRAQ, still everything is OK in rest of the World. Next they attack Iran, then only Iran will be affected. Thinking the other way they feel is pessimistic. However, if being positive realistic or is it just imagination ? Meanwhile, US is also building up weapons etc., between India and Pakistan. Vijay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 15, 2005 Report Share Posted August 15, 2005 We have a lot of flash floods here. Not too long ago, a gentleman was crossing river bed with his horse trailer and a flash flood killed him. His horses were found suffering from the cold. I wondered about that since it wasn't lower than 90 when it happened, but no too long after that, the family was trying to retrieve the truck and horse trailer when sheriff noticed a flash flood and quickly drove to them to warn them, saving their lives. He said that it had rained somewhere else and we were on the receiving end of that flash flood. I guess that's why the horses had to be treated for hypothermia, cuz the water was really cold from where it came from, at least that's what I'm guessing.fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote: interestingin the future tho they'll prolly be unforseen consequenceswhile floods are immensely destructive..they are also a natural part of the way things workthis isn't much different then the US Army Corp of Engineers straightening rivers, and building dikes, and all thatleading to all sorts of issues here..loss of wetlands, loss of soil fertility, water tables dropping, etcand..eventually...nature is gonna win anywaysrvijay <rvijay07Aug 15, 2005 12:36 PM Subject: Re: Kalam wants big push to river linking project , fraggle <EBbrewpunx@e...> wrote:> what exactly does this interlinking project mean?> what is going to happen?> > and..oh goodie..more nuclear power plants..just what they need> *shakes head*> I guess he wants to connect all the rivers, or atleast a few, so thatif it rains in one place, then instead of floods, this rain water getsdiverted to all the other rivers. One can only wait and see.GE struck a deal with India for Nuclear.VijayTo send an email to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 15, 2005 Report Share Posted August 15, 2005 everything is ok in the rest of the world let me get an hour er three to refute that..... rvijay <rvijay07 Aug 15, 2005 1:08 PM Re: Kalam wants big push to river linking project , fraggle <EBbrewpunx@e...> wrote: > if they attack iran, everything will be ok? > you've got a strange way of viewing " ok " vijay... > US attacked IRAQ, still everything is OK in rest of the World. Next they attack Iran, then only Iran will be affected. Thinking the other way they feel is pessimistic. However, if being positive realistic or is it just imagination ? Meanwhile, US is also building up weapons etc., between India and Pakistan. Vijay To send an email to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 15, 2005 Report Share Posted August 15, 2005 My thoughts too! Jo > if they attack iran, everything will be ok? > you've got a strange way of viewing " ok " vijay... > > > rvijay <rvijay07 > Aug 15, 2005 12:55 PM > > Re: Kalam wants big push to river linking project > > , fraggle <EBbrewpunx@e...> wrote: > > interesting > > > > in the future tho they'll prolly be unforseen consequences > > while floods are immensely destructive..they are also a natural part > of the way things work > > > > this isn't much different then the US Army Corp of Engineers > straightening rivers, and building dikes, and all that > > leading to all sorts of issues here..loss of wetlands, loss of soil > fertility, water tables dropping, etc > > > > and..eventually...nature is gonna win anyways > > > > > True nature rules. After all we got Global Warming, not cooling. > > Several in other groups feel we are very negative. Nanotech could lead > the future for alternative fuels etc.,. Life goes on etc., Also US is > too weak and spread out/has no Intl. support to attack Iran, even if > they attack Iran everything will be OK etc., > > It is hard to say. However, we had this long discussion before and one > by one everything seems to be comming true as discussed. > > Vijay > > > > > > To send an email to - > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 15, 2005 Report Share Posted August 15, 2005 Don't you think that Iraq and Iran and the people of those countries matter Vijay? Jo , fraggle <EBbrewpunx@e...> wrote: > if they attack iran, everything will be ok? > you've got a strange way of viewing " ok " vijay... > US attacked IRAQ, still everything is OK in rest of the World. Next they attack Iran, then only Iran will be affected. Thinking the other way they feel is pessimistic. However, if being positive realistic or is it just imagination ? Meanwhile, US is also building up weapons etc., between India and Pakistan. Vijay To send an email to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 15, 2005 Report Share Posted August 15, 2005 , " Jo Cwazy " <heartwork@c...> wrote: > Don't you think that Iraq and Iran and the people of those countries matter > Vijay? > > Jo Yes, they matter sincerely. However, US is like an incredible big machine. What can the common man do against that ? (The small person in another part of the world has to live and support his family also) Now it is really sad to see Iraq like that. I am sure that by negotiations and diplomacy, US could have got the oil or whatever it wanted from Iraq in a win/win manner better. Besides, from what I see this war is only using up more oil. Vijay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 16, 2005 Report Share Posted August 16, 2005 so lets assume you can ignore the hundreds of thousands of deaths in iraq..lets assume you can ignore the insurrection and coming civil war, the destruction of society there, and breakdown of community... So, only iraq is affected(or iran later)? Don't suppose you'd like to tell that to the people on that train in spain? people of london? don't suppose you'd like t otell that to the people of the middle east, an already volatile region? how about the thousands of new " terrorists " which have sprung up now as a result of this invasion? and, don't you suppose that one nation invading another affects the entire societal climate of the world? if the US decides its ok t o invade someone, with no provocation, you don't think that ressonates to leaders around the globe? you don't think that adds a layer of mistrust, fear and hatred? you don't think it fuels an arms race? look at iran, whom we happily shake our sabres at now.... do you think the rightwing would have won the elections if " the great satan " hadn't invaded on their very doorstep..if we hadn't started our talk of " pre-emptive strikes " and " nuclear options " ??? rvijay <rvijay07 Aug 15, 2005 1:08 PM Re: Kalam wants big push to river linking project , fraggle <EBbrewpunx@e...> wrote: > if they attack iran, everything will be ok? > you've got a strange way of viewing " ok " vijay... > US attacked IRAQ, still everything is OK in rest of the World. Next they attack Iran, then only Iran will be affected. Thinking the other way they feel is pessimistic. However, if being positive realistic or is it just imagination ? Meanwhile, US is also building up weapons etc., between India and Pakistan. Vijay To send an email to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 16, 2005 Report Share Posted August 16, 2005 so, why be vegan? the big boys tell you to eat meat...consume consume consume... why fight it then? the US wanted more then oil..they wanted control of the oil its power we now have a better foothold(or so they think) in a region that affects the entire world. We now have a voice in OPEC iraq was going to peg its oil sales to the euro instead of the US dollar... can't have that.... rvijay <rvijay07 Aug 15, 2005 3:44 PM Re: Kalam wants big push to river linking project , " Jo Cwazy " <heartwork@c...> wrote: > Don't you think that Iraq and Iran and the people of those countries matter > Vijay? > > Jo Yes, they matter sincerely. However, US is like an incredible big machine. What can the common man do against that ? (The small person in another part of the world has to live and support his family also) Now it is really sad to see Iraq like that. I am sure that by negotiations and diplomacy, US could have got the oil or whatever it wanted from Iraq in a win/win manner better. Besides, from what I see this war is only using up more oil. Vijay To send an email to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 16, 2005 Report Share Posted August 16, 2005 , fraggle <EBbrewpunx@e...> wrote: > so > lets assume you can ignore the hundreds of thousands of deaths in iraq..lets assume you can ignore the insurrection and coming civil war, the destruction of society there, and breakdown of community... > So, only iraq is affected(or iran later)? > Don't suppose you'd like to tell that to the people on that train in spain? > people of london? > don't suppose you'd like t otell that to the people of the middle east, an already volatile region? > how about the thousands of new " terrorists " which have sprung up now as a result of this invasion? > > and, don't you suppose that one nation invading another affects the entire societal climate of the world? if the US decides its ok t o invade someone, with no provocation, you don't think that ressonates to leaders around the globe? > you don't think that adds a layer of mistrust, fear and hatred? > you don't think it fuels an arms race? > > look at iran, whom we happily shake our sabres at now.... > do you think the rightwing would have won the elections if " the great satan " hadn't invaded on their very doorstep..if we hadn't started our talk of " pre-emptive strikes " and " nuclear options " ??? > Agreed with your point of view in all of the above. However, even if the common man givesup his job/family and worries about this the whole day, nothing will happen. Sure this is bad and he can discuss it. However, he can't be obsessed with it all the time. He also has a duty to his family/employer etc., Vijay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 16, 2005 Report Share Posted August 16, 2005 , fraggle <EBbrewpunx@e...> wrote: > so, why be vegan? > the big boys tell you to eat meat...consume consume consume... > why fight it then? > > > the US wanted more then oil..they wanted control of the oil > its power > we now have a better foothold(or so they think) in a region that affects the entire world. We now have a voice in OPEC > iraq was going to peg its oil sales to the euro instead of the US dollar... > can't have that.... > All I am saying is that the common man can do whatever little he can. Being obsessed with this issue and getting sick over it will not help this cause in any way. Vijay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 16, 2005 Report Share Posted August 16, 2005 my duty to my *family* includes all of that and..duty to my employer? ummm..... rvijay <rvijay07 Aug 15, 2005 10:00 PM Re: Kalam wants big push to river linking project , fraggle <EBbrewpunx@e...> wrote: > so > lets assume you can ignore the hundreds of thousands of deaths in iraq..lets assume you can ignore the insurrection and coming civil war, the destruction of society there, and breakdown of community... > So, only iraq is affected(or iran later)? > Don't suppose you'd like to tell that to the people on that train in spain? > people of london? > don't suppose you'd like t otell that to the people of the middle east, an already volatile region? > how about the thousands of new " terrorists " which have sprung up now as a result of this invasion? > > and, don't you suppose that one nation invading another affects the entire societal climate of the world? if the US decides its ok t o invade someone, with no provocation, you don't think that ressonates to leaders around the globe? > you don't think that adds a layer of mistrust, fear and hatred? > you don't think it fuels an arms race? > > look at iran, whom we happily shake our sabres at now.... > do you think the rightwing would have won the elections if " the great satan " hadn't invaded on their very doorstep..if we hadn't started our talk of " pre-emptive strikes " and " nuclear options " ??? > Agreed with your point of view in all of the above. However, even if the common man givesup his job/family and worries about this the whole day, nothing will happen. Sure this is bad and he can discuss it. However, he can't be obsessed with it all the time. He also has a duty to his family/employer etc., Vijay To send an email to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 16, 2005 Report Share Posted August 16, 2005 and ignoring it and thinking " positive " is worse...imo.... rvijay <rvijay07 Aug 15, 2005 10:04 PM Re: Kalam wants big push to river linking project , fraggle <EBbrewpunx@e...> wrote: > so, why be vegan? > the big boys tell you to eat meat...consume consume consume... > why fight it then? > > > the US wanted more then oil..they wanted control of the oil > its power > we now have a better foothold(or so they think) in a region that affects the entire world. We now have a voice in OPEC > iraq was going to peg its oil sales to the euro instead of the US dollar... > can't have that.... > All I am saying is that the common man can do whatever little he can. Being obsessed with this issue and getting sick over it will not help this cause in any way. Vijay To send an email to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 16, 2005 Report Share Posted August 16, 2005 , fraggle <EBbrewpunx@e...> wrote: > and ignoring it and thinking " positive " is worse...imo.... > We are not just up against the end of Oil era and US war on terror etc., Most importatnly we are up against global warming. Nature rules as we all know. So instead of worrying, isn't it better to focus on the problems, try to solve them as best as possible but at the same time move on with life ? Duty towards family doesn't involve worrying about Iran/Iraq etc., all the time. (It is not just you by the way, a lot of people seem to be noticing such things.) Vijay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 16, 2005 Report Share Posted August 16, 2005 i respectfully say that one person can and does make a difference it takes a rosa parkes to make a difference it takes a MLK jr to make a difference it takes one voice... someones gotta start it cindy sheehan sittin in front of bush's house waitin fer bush to come off vacation if you don't speak out, who will? a blinding flash hotter than the sun dead bodies lie across the path the radiation colors the air finishing one by one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 16, 2005 Report Share Posted August 16, 2005 , fraggle <EBbrewpunx@e...> wrote: > i respectfully say that one person can and does make a difference > it takes a rosa parkes to make a difference > it takes a MLK jr to make a difference > it takes one voice... > someones gotta start it > Agreed, this is exceptional. But if you can't make a difference, then there is no point in just worrying about it. That is all I am saying. Vijay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 16, 2005 Report Share Posted August 16, 2005 now..how you gonna know you can't make a difference unless you try?>?????? rvijay <rvijay07 Aug 16, 2005 12:21 PM Re: Kalam wants big push to river linking project , fraggle <EBbrewpunx@e...> wrote: > i respectfully say that one person can and does make a difference > it takes a rosa parkes to make a difference > it takes a MLK jr to make a difference > it takes one voice... > someones gotta start it > Agreed, this is exceptional. But if you can't make a difference, then there is no point in just worrying about it. That is all I am saying. Vijay To send an email to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 16, 2005 Report Share Posted August 16, 2005 My duty to my employer is of the utmost importance, of course *I* am my employer. Although my family comes first before anything else.fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote: my duty to my *family* includes all of thatand..duty to my employer? ummm.....rvijay <rvijay07Aug 15, 2005 10:00 PM Subject: Re: Kalam wants big push to river linking project , fraggle <EBbrewpunx@e...> wrote:> so> lets assume you can ignore the hundreds of thousands of deaths iniraq..lets assume you can ignore the insurrection and coming civilwar, the destruction of society there, and breakdown of community...> So, only iraq is affected(or iran later)?> Don't suppose you'd like to tell that to the people on that train inspain?> people of london?> don't suppose you'd like t otell that to the people of the middleeast, an already volatile region?> how about the thousands of new "terrorists" which have sprung up nowas a result of this invasion?> > and, don't you suppose that one nation invading another affects theentire societal climate of the world? if the US decides its ok t oinvade someone, with no provocation, you don't think that ressonatesto leaders around the globe?> you don't think that adds a layer of mistrust, fear and hatred?> you don't think it fuels an arms race?> > look at iran, whom we happily shake our sabres at now....> do you think the rightwing would have won the elections if "thegreat satan" hadn't invaded on their very doorstep..if we hadn'tstarted our talk of "pre-emptive strikes" and "nuclear options"???> Agreed with your point of view in all of the above. However, even ifthe common man givesup his job/family and worries about this the wholeday, nothing will happen. Sure this is bad and he can discuss it.However, he can't be obsessed with it all the time. He also has a dutyto his family/employer etc.,VijayTo send an email to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 16, 2005 Report Share Posted August 16, 2005 Everyone can make a difference if they try. The rest of the world might not know about the difference someone has made, but even helping one other person is making a difference. Making a difference is not about being seen as "one who makes a difference" but in knowing within one's own self that they have done what they could to make a difference. The world will not be a better place until people decide to make a difference, one step at a time. Dragonspirithealerfraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote: now..how you gonna know you can't make a difference unless you try?>??????rvijay <rvijay07Aug 16, 2005 12:21 PM Subject: Re: Kalam wants big push to river linking project , fraggle <EBbrewpunx@e...> wrote:> i respectfully say that one person can and does make a difference> it takes a rosa parkes to make a difference> it takes a MLK jr to make a difference> it takes one voice...> someones gotta start it> Agreed, this is exceptional. But if you can't make a difference, thenthere is no point in just worrying about it. That is all I am saying.VijayTo send an email to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 16, 2005 Report Share Posted August 16, 2005 That is the problem in a nutshell. If everyone thought like that we would all be living under Hitler! Lynda - rvijay <rvijay07 Tuesday, August 16, 2005 12:21 PM Re: Kalam wants big push to river linking project > , fraggle <EBbrewpunx@e...> wrote: > > i respectfully say that one person can and does make a difference > > it takes a rosa parkes to make a difference > > it takes a MLK jr to make a difference > > it takes one voice... > > someones gotta start it > > > > > Agreed, this is exceptional. But if you can't make a difference, then > there is no point in just worrying about it. That is all I am saying. > > Vijay > > > > > > To send an email to - > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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