don't feed the children

[Guest guest]

It's the kids that pay for the red tapes adults put on learning.

when my son was in kidngarten in manhattan, all of the parents in the classroom put on bake sales

and fundraisers and such

and we got together enough money to hire ourselves an assistant to the teacher, a college girl studying education.

we took that into our own hands, and our kids were all the better for it.

 

The books here are made for florida state, but then again i guess thats the same thing as texas.

 

The teachers here are good, for children that are not creative. They focus on those state exams. memorization with flash cards!

Gym, music and art, Cut down, after all there's no test for those.

 

my son does terrible on those state exams, because he thinks outside the box, sometimes he says that all the answers could

be right in a certain light. He can't just choose between a. b. c. or d. and then he wants to know why that answer is the best one

and usually disagrees. and sees the teachers answer as an opinion, just like he's got one.

He got Low grades last year, even though he was reading in two languages fluently at the age of three and had finished Harry Potter by the age of four.

 

luckily this year his teacher is a hippie from colorado, and very creative.

 

John Holt's book Learning All the Time is interesting, Some think he is too radical, but here is a review.

from, http://www.educationreformbooks.net/learningallthetime.htm

 

“Learning All the Time” advances the idea that children are not passive beings, waiting to be taught basic skills by adults. Much rather these skills emerge as a function of adaptation to their world, where they pick up the ability to communicate and solve myriad problems. As such, children are natural speakers, scientists, writers, and problem solvers, absorbing information from their surroundings at an alarming rate. Children learn to speak and translate this knowledge into reading and writing naturally (it is estimated that when properly guided [not taught] children can learn to read in 30 hours or less). Further, the solving of intellectual problems comes to children quite easily when approached from a conceptual viewpoint where relationships between ideas are demonstrated, and children quite readily extrapolate from these relationships.

-anouk

 

 

 

 

-

Lynda

 

9/14/2005 5:04:19 PM

Re: don't feed the children

 

Where is here?

 

Teachers do grading of papers during class and during recess. Also, have you taken a look at graded papers lately? I have and the teachers are making as many mistakes as the students. The grammar is scandalous on the handouts they send home.

 

Do you know how many have teaching assistants or student teachers that they put to work doing the grunt work? Do you know how many get graded by scantron in glorious celebration of the enfamous multi-guess quizzes?

 

 

[Guest guest]

I agree!

 

 

, fraggle <EBbrewpunx@e...> wrote:

> yes...it is horrible isn't it...they get paid a whooping $20

something thousand a year..

> and all those cool benefits..like working 12 hour days, and buying

their own supplies, and even during their *off season* having to

come into work and getting ready for the upcoming class season

> my..we are such a great society...

> and they get to be teachers, babysitters, doctors, counselors,

daycare, and morale officers..that is until the kids get home and

plop them in front of the tv

>

> please lynda..some of my best friends are teachers....they've been

teachers fer years.....they work their freakin *sses off...(and here

you all thought punks amounted to nuthin)

>

> tell ya wot..when you get to teach 20-40 kids, that come from

broken homes, that don't want to be there, with no skool supplies,

and the state educational system is tellin you you have to make them

all pass a certain exam, and society expects you to be a miracle

worker, and yer there from 6am to 6pm..then you can complain about

how grossly over-paid teachers are....

[Guest guest]

Hi Lynda,

 

> And teachers do NOT buy all their own school supplies and when

they do, they

> get 25% off at all the book stores and office supply stores.

<<SNIP>>

 

 

For competitive info alone, please tell me where this is. It is not

at OfficeMax, Office Depot, Staples, Barnes & Nobles and a few

others. I know this through work and HomeSchooling. Max discount is

10%.

 

Now as to my point, even if you receive 75% off, you are still using

your own money! I beg to differ on this Lynda. My associates and I

at OfficeMax use this as a selling point to schools. We have a

program that when they buy from us, we make sure the teachers get

better discounts too. I see the finanacial reports and I knwo how

much teachers spend.

 

My sis-in-law would use hundreds of dollars of her own money. And if

she did leave school early, you can bet she was grading papers at

home! Or creating curriculum or designing the next days agenda, etc.

 

And you do know they do not get paid during summer break.

 

I remember when I worked for AIU Online. One particular student of

mine was a teacher in Chicago. When I was signing her up as her

Admissions Advisor, I asked what her motivation towards her Masters

was. She said so that she could make an extra $5,000 a year.

Unfortunately she had no idea how she would pay for her Masters as

she made so little now. She lived paycheck to paycheck. Her area of

living in Chicago was a run down neighborhood, so it is not like she

was spending money on frivalous things. This women could barely

afford to pay for food during summer break and all she wanted was an

extra $5k a year to survive. In order to get that, she had to pay

for a $30,000 degree. That does not sound fair to me! And don't tell

me the schools pay for that because they don't. And you can use

FAFSA for every degree but a masters. She was on her own.

 

Now, push forward to some of the more plush areas I work in. Or

better yet, where my sister-in-law worked. Naperville, IL. One of

the top 5 school districts in the nation. She made next to nothing,

had a masters, and at start of school year started with a $500 hole

in her pocket for supplies.

 

I guess if I were to be a teacher I would do so in CA. Seems you

have a lot of perks there!

 

Nikki

[Guest guest]

In California, I get those discounts and the minimum I get is 10%. Most are

25%.

 

As to " teachers " getting $20,000 in California. It just ain't so.

Teachers' aides get $20,000 and that is because they do not have a teacher's

credential. Without that teaching credential you could have a PhD and not

get much more than $20,000. You can thank Dumbya for that! Experience

doesn't count under NCLB.

 

Or perhaps the person saying they were making $20,000 was talking about

take-home $$.

 

I can't address the rest of the country, however, I can tell you that the

salaries for CA are not that much higher than other states when you take

into consideration the cost of living in other states.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2005-06-25-teacher-salary-raise_x.htm

 

AND, in CA all basic curriculum is provided. If teachers are buying

" curriculum, " it is stuff " they " choose to supplement with. The textbooks,

the workbook masters are provided.

 

Lynda

-

" earthstrm " <nikkimack

 

Thursday, September 15, 2005 4:54 AM

Re: don't feed the children

 

 

> Hi Lynda,

>

>> And teachers do NOT buy all their own school supplies and when

> they do, they

>> get 25% off at all the book stores and office supply stores.

> <<SNIP>>

>

>

> For competitive info alone, please tell me where this is. It is not

> at OfficeMax, Office Depot, Staples, Barnes & Nobles and a few

> others. I know this through work and HomeSchooling. Max discount is

> 10%.

>

> Now as to my point, even if you receive 75% off, you are still using

> your own money! I beg to differ on this Lynda. My associates and I

> at OfficeMax use this as a selling point to schools. We have a

> program that when they buy from us, we make sure the teachers get

> better discounts too. I see the finanacial reports and I knwo how

> much teachers spend.

>

> My sis-in-law would use hundreds of dollars of her own money. And if

> she did leave school early, you can bet she was grading papers at

> home! Or creating curriculum or designing the next days agenda, etc.

>

> And you do know they do not get paid during summer break.

>

> I remember when I worked for AIU Online. One particular student of

> mine was a teacher in Chicago. When I was signing her up as her

> Admissions Advisor, I asked what her motivation towards her Masters

> was. She said so that she could make an extra $5,000 a year.

> Unfortunately she had no idea how she would pay for her Masters as

> she made so little now. She lived paycheck to paycheck. Her area of

> living in Chicago was a run down neighborhood, so it is not like she

> was spending money on frivalous things. This women could barely

> afford to pay for food during summer break and all she wanted was an

> extra $5k a year to survive. In order to get that, she had to pay

> for a $30,000 degree. That does not sound fair to me! And don't tell

> me the schools pay for that because they don't. And you can use

> FAFSA for every degree but a masters. She was on her own.

>

> Now, push forward to some of the more plush areas I work in. Or

> better yet, where my sister-in-law worked. Naperville, IL. One of

> the top 5 school districts in the nation. She made next to nothing,

> had a masters, and at start of school year started with a $500 hole

> in her pocket for supplies.

>

> I guess if I were to be a teacher I would do so in CA. Seems you

> have a lot of perks there!

>

> Nikki

To send an email to -

>

[Guest guest]

Speaking of examinations, a while back, Arizona decided there needed to be a standard of learning (since our schools are rated low in the nation) so they decided a test to make sure they met the standards needed to be done. So out came AIMS. Then when most of the kids didn't do very well on it, they decided they needed to change the test so more could pass. Hmmm... Jo Cwazy <heartwork wrote:

 

Hi Peter

 

That's very true. As you know, I work for an examination board, and you cannot get hold of a teacher if you phone after about 3.30 p.m. I would imagine that in the UK they have a good couple of hours at home to mark their papers etc.

 

BB

 

o

 

-

Peter

Wednesday, September 14, 2005 8:49 PM

Re: don't feed the children

 

Hi Jonnie

 

> Here you need to have a Masters in order to teach, even in elementary school. Now while those teachers may not be in

> their classes working, how do you think all those papers get graded? It sure can't be during school hours.

 

I don't know much about US schools, but in the UK an average school day is about 6 hours - compared to an 8 hour working day for other workers. So that gives a clear 2 hours per day for marking papers.

 

BB

PeterJonnie

[Guest guest]

Thank you Bush Sr. (Goals), Clinton (Goals 2000) and Dumbya (NCLB). Without the feds messing in education, children were doing fine, arts and music were alive and well and the literacy rate was pretty good.

 

Amazing what a little encouragement from corporations to produce little sheople will do to the education of the general populace!

 

Lynda

 

-

Jonnie Hellens

Friday, September 16, 2005 3:50 PM

Re: don't feed the children

 

Speaking of examinations, a while back, Arizona decided there needed to be a standard of learning (since our schools are rated low in the nation) so they decided a test to make sure they met the standards needed to be done. So out came AIMS. Then when most of the kids didn't do very well on it, they decided they needed to change the test so more could pass. Hmmm... Jo Cwazy <heartwork wrote:

Hi Peter

 

That's very true. As you know, I work for an examination board, and you cannot get hold of a teacher if you phone after about 3.30 p.m. I would imagine that in the UK they have a good couple of hours at home to mark their papers etc.

 

BB

 

o

 

-

Peter

Wednesday, September 14, 2005 8:49 PM

Re: don't feed the children

 

Hi Jonnie

 

> Here you need to have a Masters in order to teach, even in elementary school. Now while those teachers may not be in

> their classes working, how do you think all those papers get graded? It sure can't be during school hours.

 

I don't know much about US schools, but in the UK an average school day is about 6 hours - compared to an 8 hour working day for other workers. So that gives a clear 2 hours per day for marking papers.

 

BB

PeterJonnie

 

[Guest guest]

That's governments for you. The government here is always changing their collective mind on what the education system should be but they never give it a chance to settle down.

 

Jo

 

-

Jonnie Hellens

Friday, September 16, 2005 11:50 PM

Re: don't feed the children

 

Speaking of examinations, a while back, Arizona decided there needed to be a standard of learning (since our schools are rated low in the nation) so they decided a test to make sure they met the standards needed to be done. So out came AIMS. Then when most of the kids didn't do very well on it, they decided they needed to change the test so more could pass. Hmmm... Jo Cwazy <heartwork wrote:

Hi Peter

 

That's very true. As you know, I work for an examination board, and you cannot get hold of a teacher if you phone after about 3.30 p.m. I would imagine that in the UK they have a good couple of hours at home to mark their papers etc.

 

BB

 

o

 

-

Peter

Wednesday, September 14, 2005 8:49 PM

Re: don't feed the children

 

Hi Jonnie

 

> Here you need to have a Masters in order to teach, even in elementary school. Now while those teachers may not be in

> their classes working, how do you think all those papers get graded? It sure can't be during school hours.

 

I don't know much about US schools, but in the UK an average school day is about 6 hours - compared to an 8 hour working day for other workers. So that gives a clear 2 hours per day for marking papers.

 

BB

PeterJonnie

 

[Guest guest]

Hi Lynda,

 

 

> In California, I get those discounts and the minimum I get is

10%. Most are

> 25%.

 

Again, where is this? I would like to share this info with my

company as well as friends down there. Especially if a competitor is

doing this! Seeing as it is an illegal practice. When you have a

program in place like the ones the office supply stores have, it

must be the same across the board. Please share where you get these

discounts and exactly what they are so I can research this further.

Thx!

 

As for the rest, like I said, CA must be the place to teach! I can

tell you it is not like that elsewhere. I am sure part of the

population of teachers it is. But this is not across the board. And

it is not take-home either.

 

Should I go back and get my teaching degree like I would eventually

like to do, I think I'll move to CA!

 

Nikki

[Guest guest]

I haven't forgotten you, I'm digging through " stuff " to find my " teacher "

cards.

 

Since we moved to the sticks I haven't been using any of them and tossed

them in one of the desks.

 

Lynda

-

" earthstrm " <nikkimack

 

Saturday, September 17, 2005 6:11 AM

Re: don't feed the children

 

 

> Hi Lynda,

>

>

>> In California, I get those discounts and the minimum I get is

> 10%. Most are

>> 25%.

>

> Again, where is this? I would like to share this info with my

> company as well as friends down there. Especially if a competitor is

> doing this! Seeing as it is an illegal practice. When you have a

> program in place like the ones the office supply stores have, it

> must be the same across the board. Please share where you get these

> discounts and exactly what they are so I can research this further.

> Thx!

>

> As for the rest, like I said, CA must be the place to teach! I can

> tell you it is not like that elsewhere. I am sure part of the

> population of teachers it is. But this is not across the board. And

> it is not take-home either.

>

> Should I go back and get my teaching degree like I would eventually

> like to do, I think I'll move to CA!

>

> Nikki

>

To send an email to -

>

[Guest guest]

Hi April,

 

Then I shall re-phrase that to be techinically correct to your

satisfaction.

 

Teachers do not get paid for doing nothing all summer. They can choose

to take the money that they earned working during the school year and

have it deferred. But they do not get paid for the summer time hours

in which they do not work.

 

Better?

 

Nikki

 

, April London <april@f...> wrote:

> Okay, it is NOT true that teachers don't get paid over the summer.

> They can choose to have their paycheck paid out over the entire year

or

> take it during the school year only. Granted, I do agree that they

> make next to nothing and that really is a shame but the whole bit

about

> them not getting paid over the summer is a personal choice they made.

>

> April

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Lynda,

 

 

, " Lynda " <lurine@s...> wrote:

> O.K., this is strange. I only got half the original e-mail, so am

now responding to the balance of the e-mail.

>

> You're correct, April. All schools are set up to pay pro-rated or

only during the school year. Also, a lot of teachers do teach

during the summer. And a lot do private tutoring.

 

Right, pro-rated, not paid for the summer hours. Big difference!

 

 

>

> As to paying for getting a masters, most schools have tuition

>credit built into the union package. I'd suggest doing a little

>more research. As a registrar, I routinely helped folks get

>classes paid for either through their job or through some really

>easy scholarships. There are dozens and dozens of scholarships out

>there for teachers to further their education!

 

Most is not all. And I never said it was all teachers, or all

schools, or all areas. I seem to be in a all or nothing conversation

here. If you remember my first email (and I am WAY behind) I agreed

with you too dear.

 

As a past admission advisor, I saw some of this too. You were

arguing that it was all false. I am saying it is not " all " false.

 

 

>

> Plus, a lot of colleges have a working arrangement with local

>schools districts that give teachers a break on tuition. AND, most

>of the big colleges are now online and one doesn't even have to

>leave their home to take the courses except for the first and last

>class. Oh, and another thing they can do is get " life credits " and

>challenge some of the classes (test and pass and get the units but

>they don't count to a GPA). BTDT

 

 

Very true. But life credits work the best for an Assoc degree. And

to gain life credits you need a lot of back-up materials and

documents. And it does not gain you a full degree. Plus there is

testing available but again mostly applies to an Assoc degree.

 

 

>

> And as an advisor, you did give her the brochure about how to

>finance her master degree that the U of IL has for all those

>wanting to further their education. There are lots of options!

 

If I worked for American Inter-Continental University online, why

would I give her an U of IL brochure? I wouldn't keep my job that

way. Besides, brochures don't pay for education.

 

 

 

> As to barely making it, depending on which source you use, in

>03/04, the average salary for teachers in Chicago were between

>$52,374 and $62,241. I'd say that someone who can't get by on that

>needs to learn to better budget! Now that's more than the average

>for California and the cost of living is not even close to that of

>California plus the rental rates in Chicago have been going down

>over the last 5 years.

 

 

I would like more info on this average please. Does this combine all

grades? All living areas? All degrees earned?

 

Thx Lynda! I appreciate all of the info you are passing on.

 

Nikki

[Guest guest]

The ISBE does a salary survey every year. You can usually get a copy,

gratis, as a school. It is also online.

 

And it does list all the school. Hard to follow online but should be easy

enough with a hard copy. Of course, it is usually in on Adobe so would

print out nicely.

 

Oops, however, the report is usually well over a 100 pages long <g> One can

print out only the pertinent pages.

 

Lynda

-

" earthstrm " <nikkimack

>

> I would like more info on this average please. Does this combine all

> grades? All living areas? All degrees earned?

>

> Thx Lynda! I appreciate all of the info you are passing on.

>

> Nikki

To send an email to -

>