Arizona: The sky is falling, run Chicken Little!

[Guest guest]

and the hohokam irrigated their desert with a peak population between 24,000-50,000 people...

phoenix today has, wot, 1.3 million? Jonnie Hellens Sep 23, 2005 3:49 PM Re: Arizona: The sky is falling, run Chicken Little!

Long before we arrived, the locals (Native American - Hohokam) built a canal system that brought water from the Salt River thoughout the valley. http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Newsroom/NewImages/images.php3?img_id=15282 The water flows year round and I don't think it uses pumps. The wonderful city of Tempe decided to put a couple rubber dams up and make a lake to play on. It's situated right next to ASU so the partyers can get drunk and fall into the lake. You should go sometime, you might enjoy urself? In Scottsdale, they built some golf courses along the area where water tends to flood during storms. Besides water flow, the canals are also used for excercise. My son, dog and I walk along one for our walks, people also bike and jog. There was talk of building a commercial area along one of the canals where you could shop, eat, etc, but so far it hasn't happened. The canals also provide irrigation for yeards and farming all over the place. Of course, when you irrigate ur yard, be prepared to be eaten alive by the mosquitos until it dries up enuf. Along the Salt River, there is a popular past time called tubing. You either take 2 cars (or more) or use the bus for a small fee. You take one car down river and park, then drive all the people up river where you unload all ur beer, tubes,food and other goodies. You then enter the river with ur cooler (there are even special round ones sold here that fit in the middle of a tube - you either hook everybody up for a floating city or usually, you just stick ur leg over a friends tube and are linked that way), sit on a tube and spend lots of time drinking and getting sunburned and yacking. Gee, didn't know we had so much water in the desert, did ya?

 

I am only one, but still I am one. I cannot do everything, but I can still do something; and because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do the something that I can do.

[Guest guest]

most metropolises are in deep doo-doo

but, yeah, come any sort of crisis in oil, and the southwest is fried...no ifs ands or buts

 

 

look at it this way

ancient rome had a population of over 1,000,000...about 500AD thru wars and famine, it had dropped down down to between 700,000-900,000

after the goths cut the aqueduct bringing most of the water into the city, her population collapsed to 12,000

Lynda Sep 23, 2005 3:37 PM Re: Arizona: The sky is falling, run Chicken Little!

 

Arizona grows food at big expense and with tons of fertilizers (pertroleum) and pumped in water.

 

And, a friend who has lived there for quite awhile says that over the last 15 or so years it has been getting hotter and hotter because of all the building, paving, etc.

 

Southern CA, AZ, NV, etc. will be in deep doggie doo doo because they could not survive without petroleum and piped in water.

 

Lynda

I am only one, but still I am one. I cannot do everything, but I can still do something; and because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do the something that I can do.

[Guest guest]

We've also expanded the canals somewhat. I hear what ur saying, if someone messed with the incomming water... it's easily enuf done in any major city. I was just thinking, remember all the really popular disaster movies of the 1970s?fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote:

 

and the hohokam irrigated their desert with a peak population between 24,000-50,000 people...

phoenix today has, wot, 1.3 million? Jonnie Hellens Sep 23, 2005 3:49 PM Re: Arizona: The sky is falling, run Chicken Little!

Long before we arrived, the locals (Native American - Hohokam) built a canal system that brought water from the Salt River thoughout the valley. http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Newsroom/NewImages/images.php3?img_id=15282 The water flows year round and I don't think it uses pumps. The wonderful city of Tempe decided to put a couple rubber dams up and make a lake to play on. It's situated right next to ASU so the partyers can get drunk and fall into the lake. You should go sometime, you might enjoy urself? In Scottsdale, they built some golf courses along the area where water tends to flood during storms. Besides water flow, the canals are also used for excercise. My son, dog and I walk along one for our walks, people also bike and jog. There was talk of building a commercial area along one of the canals where you could shop, eat, etc, but so

far it hasn't happened. The canals also provide irrigation for yeards and farming all over the place. Of course, when you irrigate ur yard, be prepared to be eaten alive by the mosquitos until it dries up enuf. Along the Salt River, there is a popular past time called tubing. You either take 2 cars (or more) or use the bus for a small fee. You take one car down river and park, then drive all the people up river where you unload all ur beer, tubes,food and other goodies. You then enter the river with ur cooler (there are even special round ones sold here that fit in the middle of a tube - you either hook everybody up for a floating city or usually, you just stick ur leg over a friends tube and are linked that way), sit on a tube and spend lots of time drinking and getting sunburned and yacking. Gee, didn't know we had so much water in the desert, did ya?

 

I am only one, but still I am one. I cannot do everything, but I can still do something; and because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do the something that I can do.Jonnie

for Good Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.

[Guest guest]

i can make it more simple fer ya

how would you get water out of the river and canals if you needed it...if there were a power disruption say, tomorrow? Jonnie Hellens Sep 23, 2005 5:01 PM Re: Arizona: The sky is falling, run Chicken Little!

We've also expanded the canals somewhat. I hear what ur saying, if someone messed with the incomming water... it's easily enuf done in any major city. I was just thinking, remember all the really popular disaster movies of the 1970s?

I am only one, but still I am one. I cannot do everything, but I can still do something; and because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do the something that I can do.

[Guest guest]

I'm not sure I'd want to use any groudwater wells around any of those cities since they started pumping recycled sewer water into some of those areas. And the grass from the golf coarses? Most of those are watered with only 2 step treated sewer water.

 

And the problem isn't just the water, it is the soil. You're talking chaparral and pine forests or arid areas for the most part. Not much in the line of top soil or up in the foothills and mountains you don't have enough optimum growing days for much of anything. Going from frost to blazing hot isn't something most plants appreciate.

 

The Chino Valley is the exception, not the rule and it isn't going to support the whole state.

 

Lynda

 

-

chemgeek

 

Yes Arizona gets its water from the colorado but Arizona isn't this vast wasteland desert that people seem to envision. Sure, Phoenix is.. but go about 120 miles north and you have Flagstaff where it snows on a regular basis. The entire city shut down last winter because we got like 5 feet of snow in less than 24 hours. So as weird as it might sound, the vast ecosystem that is Arizona actually allows all of arizona (yes, the phoenix area too) to have groundwater wells. Since you were specifically speaking of Phoenix, aside from the Colorado the Phoenix-metro area also gets its water from Lake Roosevelt as well as the Salt and Verde rivers...and if I'm not mistaken there are 38 groundwater wells in the city of Mesa Arizona alone... that's not couting Scottsdale, Glendale, Phoenix proper, Tempe etc...

 

So if we lost the ability to pump water from colorado would it suck? Yes. Would it cripple the city? No. Plus.. we have all the wonderful green golf courses... we could live off the lawns for years. *G*

 

Talisman

 

[Guest guest]

true

but chicago doesn't generally get up to 110 F either

and ya got the great lakes right there...

yer in a lot better shape in say chicago, then in vegas, phoenix, LA...

it'll be a disaster no matter where...but chicago, utica, albany, etc could all survive a power outage a tad better then phoenix

 

all modern cities are nightmares..waiting for one little push

suburbs are even worse...

 

but..places like phoenix, LA, vegas, etc are almost untenable...they are so over-crowded and living on the edge of collapse that if anything does happen its gonna be a disaster of immense proportions

 

heh, and the whole point of this conversation was me talkin to jonnie about phoenix being *safe*...

no place is technically safe..some places will just be able t owithstand different phenomi nae better then others

chemgeek Sep 24, 2005 2:09 PM Re: Arizona: The sky is falling, run Chicken Little!

So how is Arizona unique in this statement then? If all of the city of chicago and the surrounding areas lost power "ka-boom" what would happen to them? It's not like it's osmosis that brings water to your tap. So living in the desert of living in the middle of a lake, if you have no access to electricity to pump/purify water then you are screwed.

 

-

fraggle

Saturday, September 24, 2005 4:07 PM

Re: Arizona: The sky is falling, run Chicken Little!

 

my point is, which ya'll keep forgetting

there's over a million people in the phoenix area

if you lost power, thru wotever means, how would you pump water, from anywhere???

if tomorrow, something went ka-boom, and you lost all electricity...wot would happen to phoenix?

(or LA, or vegas or...)

 

 

i know arizona is a diverse place...

i'm just talking about a huge population stuck in the middle of the sonoran desert...

I am only one, but still I am one. I cannot do everything, but I can still do something; and because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do the something that I can do.

[Guest guest]

that would be us up here <g>

 

And, I know I'm getting old but didn't we just have this sort of conversation a month or two ago about homesteaders and folks flooding out of cities?

 

Oh, phooey, just chalk it up to mommy brain if it was on another list.

 

Lynda

 

-

fraggle

Saturday, September 24, 2005 2:35 PM

Re: Arizona: The sky is falling, run Chicken Little!

 

true

but chicago doesn't generally get up to 110 F either

and ya got the great lakes right there...

yer in a lot better shape in say chicago, then in vegas, phoenix, LA...

it'll be a disaster no matter where...but chicago, utica, albany, etc could all survive a power outage a tad better then phoenix

 

all modern cities are nightmares..waiting for one little push

suburbs are even worse...

 

but..places like phoenix, LA, vegas, etc are almost untenable...they are so over-crowded and living on the edge of collapse that if anything does happen its gonna be a disaster of immense proportions

 

heh, and the whole point of this conversation was me talkin to jonnie about phoenix being *safe*...

no place is technically safe..some places will just be able t owithstand different phenomi nae better then others

chemgeek Sep 24, 2005 2:09 PM Re: Arizona: The sky is falling, run Chicken Little!

So how is Arizona unique in this statement then? If all of the city of chicago and the surrounding areas lost power "ka-boom" what would happen to them? It's not like it's osmosis that brings water to your tap. So living in the desert of living in the middle of a lake, if you have no access to electricity to pump/purify water then you are screwed.

 

-

fraggle

Saturday, September 24, 2005 4:07 PM

Re: Arizona: The sky is falling, run Chicken Little!

 

my point is, which ya'll keep forgetting

there's over a million people in the phoenix area

if you lost power, thru wotever means, how would you pump water, from anywhere???

if tomorrow, something went ka-boom, and you lost all electricity...wot would happen to phoenix?

(or LA, or vegas or...)

 

 

i know arizona is a diverse place...

i'm just talking about a huge population stuck in the middle of the sonoran desert...

I am only one, but still I am one. I cannot do everything, but I can still do something; and because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do the something that I can do.

 

 

Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.5/110 - Release 9/22/2005

[Guest guest]

And the grass from the golf coarses? Most of those are watered with only 2 step treated sewer water.

 

Lynda,

 

Evidently my sarcasm went over your head.

 

T

[Guest guest]

a couple months ago

and i wasn't here.... Lynda Sep 24, 2005 3:09 PM Re: Arizona: The sky is falling, run Chicken Little!

 

that would be us up here <g>

 

And, I know I'm getting old but didn't we just have this sort of conversation a month or two ago about homesteaders and folks flooding out of cities?

 

Oh, phooey, just chalk it up to mommy brain if it was on another list.

 

Lynda

 

-----

I am only one, but still I am one. I cannot do everything, but I can still do something; and because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do the something that I can do.

[Guest guest]

phoenix sits 1200 ft higher then the level at where it gets water from the colorado..so the aqueduct and then canal system uses many pumping stations

 

as for population, i was just talkin about phoenix(phoenix is the 6th largest city in the US)...i would guess the surrounding regions dump the population past 2 million Jonnie Hellens Sep 24, 2005 6:00 PM Re: Arizona: The sky is falling, run Chicken Little!

I think I understand your point, but (and of course I could be wrong) I don't believe our water is pumped. It flows happily down our canals, year-round. So even without electricity we have water in the canals. The water is probably pumped FROM the canals, however. Ur right, we could lose a lot of lives if we lost electricity, especially during the summer. Unfortunately, the elderly, sick and the young would be most affected because of the heat as you no doubt read of our heat waves during the summers and the deaths often involved. Also, you mention the 1.3 mil people in Phoenix, did you also include the surounding cities of Glendale, Tempe, Avondale, Scottsdale, etc?

fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote:

 

my point is, which ya'll keep forgetting

there's over a million people in the phoenix area

if you lost power, thru wotever means, how would you pump water, from anywhere???

if tomorrow, something went ka-boom, and you lost all electricity...wot would happen to phoenix?

(or LA, or vegas or...)

 

 

i know arizona is a diverse place...

i'm just talking about a huge population stuck in the middle of the sonoran desert...

I am only one, but still I am one. I cannot do everything, but I can still do something; and because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do the something that I can do.

[Guest guest]

Maricopa county has a population of over 3,000,000.

 

Lynda

 

-

fraggle

 

phoenix sits 1200 ft higher then the level at where it gets water from the colorado..so the aqueduct and then canal system uses many pumping stations

 

as for population, i was just talkin about phoenix(phoenix is the 6th largest city in the US)...i would guess the surrounding regions dump the population past 2 million

[Guest guest]

According to Uncle John's Unstoppable Bathroom Reader, LA is moving closer to San Fran at the rate of 2 inches a year due to the shifting of the tectonic plates. Hmmm... is this so?fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote:

 

true

but chicago doesn't generally get up to 110 F either

and ya got the great lakes right there...

yer in a lot better shape in say chicago, then in vegas, phoenix, LA...

it'll be a disaster no matter where...but chicago, utica, albany, etc could all survive a power outage a tad better then phoenix

 

all modern cities are nightmares..waiting for one little push

suburbs are even worse...

 

but..places like phoenix, LA, vegas, etc are almost untenable...they are so over-crowded and living on the edge of collapse that if anything does happen its gonna be a disaster of immense proportions

 

heh, and the whole point of this conversation was me talkin to jonnie about phoenix being *safe*...

no place is technically safe..some places will just be able t owithstand different phenomi nae better then others

chemgeek Sep 24, 2005 2:09 PM Re: Arizona: The sky is falling, run Chicken Little!

So how is Arizona unique in this statement then? If all of the city of chicago and the surrounding areas lost power "ka-boom" what would happen to them? It's not like it's osmosis that brings water to your tap. So living in the desert of living in the middle of a lake, if you have no access to electricity to pump/purify water then you are screwed.

 

-

fraggle

Saturday, September 24, 2005 4:07 PM

Re: Arizona: The sky is falling, run Chicken Little!

 

my point is, which ya'll keep forgetting

there's over a million people in the phoenix area

if you lost power, thru wotever means, how would you pump water, from anywhere???

if tomorrow, something went ka-boom, and you lost all electricity...wot would happen to phoenix?

(or LA, or vegas or...)

 

 

i know arizona is a diverse place...

i'm just talking about a huge population stuck in the middle of the sonoran desert...

I am only one, but still I am one. I cannot do everything, but I can still do something; and because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do the something that I can do.Jonnie

[Guest guest]

heh..another of our books!!!!

 

ummm

the pacific plate is moving against the north american plate...

i think the rate of migration is something like 6 cm a year..tho if pressure builds up and is released in a big earthquake you'll get a jump...

 

eventually, if the plates keep moving the same way, LA will end up an island off the coast of canada... Jonnie Hellens Sep 25, 2005 7:59 AM Re: Arizona: The sky is falling, run Chicken Little!

According to Uncle John's Unstoppable Bathroom Reader, LA is moving closer to San Fran at the rate of 2 inches a year due to the shifting of the tectonic plates. Hmmm... is this so?fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote:

I am only one, but still I am one. I cannot do everything, but I can still do something; and because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do the something that I can do.

[Guest guest]

This is the first Bathroom Reader I've been able to read. The others have mysteriously disappeared from their appointed room. Although, I'm only able to read it I guess because it's not filed in the 'library' room. It's a quite enjoyable book.fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote:

 

heh..another of our books!!!!

 

ummm

the pacific plate is moving against the north american plate...

i think the rate of migration is something like 6 cm a year..tho if pressure builds up and is released in a big earthquake you'll get a jump...

 

eventually, if the plates keep moving the same way, LA will end up an island off the coast of canada... Jonnie Hellens Sep 25, 2005 7:59 AM Re: Arizona: The sky is falling, run Chicken Little!

According to Uncle John's Unstoppable Bathroom Reader, LA is moving closer to San Fran at the rate of 2 inches a year due to the shifting of the tectonic plates. Hmmm... is this so?fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote:

I am only one, but still I am one. I cannot do everything, but I can still do something; and because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do the something that I can do.Jonnie

for Good Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.

[Guest guest]

Reach down and take some. A long time ago, some of us used to swim in those canals during the summer, but they really cracked down on it. Said that the currents were dangerous.fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote:

 

i can make it more simple fer ya

how would you get water out of the river and canals if you needed it...if there were a power disruption say, tomorrow? Jonnie Hellens Sep 23, 2005 5:01 PM Re: Arizona: The sky is falling, run Chicken Little!

We've also expanded the canals somewhat. I hear what ur saying, if someone messed with the incomming water... it's easily enuf done in any major city. I was just thinking, remember all the really popular disaster movies of the 1970s?

I am only one, but still I am one. I cannot do everything, but I can still do something; and because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do the something that I can do.Jonnie

for Good Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.

[Guest guest]

Yeah and all of them are trying to get to work in the morning and home in the evening! (OK, for those of you who might dispute this, it's a joke, I understand - and used to work- the different shifts.... So you don't have to tell me that they really aren't and give statistics of trafic on the road at different times or whatever.... It's a JOKE - just smile and walk away...)Lynda <lurine wrote:

 

Maricopa county has a population of over 3,000,000.

 

Lynda

 

-

fraggle

 

phoenix sits 1200 ft higher then the level at where it gets water from the colorado..so the aqueduct and then canal system uses many pumping stations

 

as for population, i was just talkin about phoenix(phoenix is the 6th largest city in the US)...i would guess the surrounding regions dump the population past 2 millionJonnie

[Guest guest]

Yeah and all of them are trying to get to work in the morning and home in the evening!

 

 

And they all use I-17 ;)T

[Guest guest]

Naw, the 60! I used to live in AJ and drove my kids to school in Scottsdale. It took 2-3 hours! After they did some work on the 60, it was down to 1.5 hours. Hopefully we'll never need to evacuate our cities! Our freeway system can't even handle our growth!ChemGeek <chemgeek wrote:

 

Yeah and all of them are trying to get to work in the morning and home in the evening!

 

 

And they all use I-17 ;)TJonnie

for Good Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.

[Guest guest]

I have nothing but horrid memories of Scottsdale. That is where one of the biggest Arab horseshows is held. Used to be in February. Flash floods (came out in the morning to find the horses standing up to their knees in water) and horrendous winds (got a call from the show coordinator to come get the horses which were running all over the place because the port-a-stalls had blown away).

 

We don't go to that show anymore %-{

 

Lynda

 

-

Jonnie Hellens

Tuesday, September 27, 2005 7:55 AM

Re: Arizona: The sky is falling, run Chicken Little!

 

Naw, the 60! I used to live in AJ and drove my kids to school in Scottsdale. It took 2-3 hours! After they did some work on the 60, it was down to 1.5 hours. Hopefully we'll never need to evacuate our cities! Our freeway system can't even handle our growth!

[Guest guest]

I understand Michael Brown had something to do with Scottsdale, horses, plastic surgery and resigning. I saw a headline while waiting for something but couldn't read much of it. Lynda <lurine wrote:

 

I have nothing but horrid memories of Scottsdale. That is where one of the biggest Arab horseshows is held. Used to be in February. Flash floods (came out in the morning to find the horses standing up to their knees in water) and horrendous winds (got a call from the show coordinator to come get the horses which were running all over the place because the port-a-stalls had blown away).

 

We don't go to that show anymore %-{

 

Lynda

 

-

Jonnie Hellens

Tuesday, September 27, 2005 7:55 AM

Re: Arizona: The sky is falling, run Chicken Little!

 

Naw, the 60! I used to live in AJ and drove my kids to school in Scottsdale. It took 2-3 hours! After they did some work on the 60, it was down to 1.5 hours. Hopefully we'll never need to evacuate our cities! Our freeway system can't even handle our growth!Jonnie

for Good Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.

[Guest guest]

Oh yeah. I didn't realise who he was until later. I mean, it is a common type of name. How appropriate as he is a rather common type of person!

 

He ran the IAHA into financial disaster. The organization went bankrupt and had to combine with the AHA inorder to survive. IAHA was the Half-Arab registry and he was a commissioner. They were NOT part of the Olympic committee which is another of his lies. He main job was working with judges and stewarts and there are still probably a dozen lawsuits working their way through the courts because of him!

 

Lynda

 

-

Jonnie Hellens

Wednesday, September 28, 2005 9:31 AM

Re: Arizona: The sky is falling, run Chicken Little!

 

I understand Michael Brown had something to do with Scottsdale, horses, plastic surgery and resigning. I saw a headline while waiting for something but couldn't read much of it. Lynda <lurine wrote:

I have nothing but horrid memories of Scottsdale. That is where one of the biggest Arab horseshows is held. Used to be in February. Flash floods (came out in the morning to find the horses standing up to their knees in water) and horrendous winds (got a call from the show coordinator to come get the horses which were running all over the place because the port-a-stalls had blown away).

 

We don't go to that show anymore %-{

 

Lynda

 

-

Jonnie Hellens

Tuesday, September 27, 2005 7:55 AM

Re: Arizona: The sky is falling, run Chicken Little!

 

Naw, the 60! I used to live in AJ and drove my kids to school in Scottsdale. It took 2-3 hours! After they did some work on the 60, it was down to 1.5 hours. Hopefully we'll never need to evacuate our cities! Our freeway system can't even handle our growth!Jonnie

 

 

for GoodClick here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.

 

Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.6/111 - Release 9/23/2005