Guest guest Posted November 3, 2005 Report Share Posted November 3, 2005 Several years back, I moved to a vegan diet. After a couple years, I moved back to an omnivorous diet. I'm trying to return to eating vegan but this time around, I'm having one heck of a time doing it. I'm having trouble getting past both the cravings and getting full after a meal. I've tried soy substitutes, along with salads, pastas, and whole grains. I tried a more structured, weaning off animal based foods. Same results. I figure I'm missing something but just not figuring out what it is. Any suggestions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 3, 2005 Report Share Posted November 3, 2005 Why are you trying to be vegan? It sounds like your motivation is not strong enough, which would lead me to believe that you are probably doing it for health reasons, not ethical. Chat about your reasons, and maybe we can help sort out :-) Jo , " Noctaire " <noctaire> wrote: > > Several years back, I moved to a vegan diet. After a couple years, I moved > back to an omnivorous diet. I'm trying to return to eating vegan but this > time around, I'm having one heck of a time doing it. I'm having trouble > getting past both the cravings and getting full after a meal. I've tried > soy substitutes, along with salads, pastas, and whole grains. I tried a > more structured, weaning off animal based foods. Same results. > > I figure I'm missing something but just not figuring out what it is. Any > suggestions? > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 3, 2005 Report Share Posted November 3, 2005 Try turning up the protien content and maybe the carbohydrates?, give it 15 mins to go down and have a glass of water to ensure you feel full? Oh alright, I dont know didly....................Fraggle, Oh Fraggle? bail me out please? The Valley Vegan.................Noctaire <noctaire wrote: Several years back, I moved to a vegan diet. After a couple years, I movedback to an omnivorous diet. I'm trying to return to eating vegan but thistime around, I'm having one heck of a time doing it. I'm having troublegetting past both the cravings and getting full after a meal. I've triedsoy substitutes, along with salads, pastas, and whole grains. I tried amore structured, weaning off animal based foods. Same results.I figure I'm missing something but just not figuring out what it is. Anysuggestions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 3, 2005 Report Share Posted November 3, 2005 well for one thing..remember that a craving is all in yer mind more er less a craving could be a food addiction, the result of pyschological wants/needs, wanting something because you've ALWAYS had it, etc and so forth wot we in the US describe as that *full feeling* is generally the body saying " hold on there!! you've put too much in me..stop!!! " and the body releases certain hormones... to stop cravings..well.wot are you craving? try eating many small meals, instead of 3 big uns drink plenty of water are you stressed? stress often leads to cravings do you often have things to keep you busy, especially yer mind? boredom causes cravings..keep yer brain functioning on something... find new ways to treat yerself....if you find yerself craving something like a dead bird, is there something vegan you really like but never have? subsititute that for that full feeling... stay away from simple carbohydrates all the time...try eatin things with higher protein, like nuts, tofu, etc again..lotsa small meals instead of a couple big ones make sure ya add plenty of fiber to yer diet as well hope some of those help cheers fraggle Noctaire <noctaire Nov 3, 2005 5:50 AM Having difficulty moving to a vegan diet.... Several years back, I moved to a vegan diet. After a couple years, I moved back to an omnivorous diet. I'm trying to return to eating vegan but this time around, I'm having one heck of a time doing it. I'm having trouble getting past both the cravings and getting full after a meal. I've tried soy substitutes, along with salads, pastas, and whole grains. I tried a more structured, weaning off animal based foods. Same results. I figure I'm missing something but just not figuring out what it is. Any suggestions? To send an email to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 3, 2005 Report Share Posted November 3, 2005 i said basically the same thing when did i become the turn to guy????????/ peter hurd Nov 3, 2005 11:26 AM Re: Having difficulty moving to a vegan diet.... Try turning up the protien content and maybe the carbohydrates?, give it 15 mins to go down and have a glass of water to ensure you feel full? Oh alright, I dont know didly....................Fraggle, Oh Fraggle? bail me out please? External control are you gonna let them get you? Do you wanna be a prisoner in the boundaries they set you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 3, 2005 Report Share Posted November 3, 2005 > i said basically the same thing > > when did i become the turn to guy????????/ Ever since your days on Usenet. James Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 3, 2005 Report Share Posted November 3, 2005 Hi Fraggle > when did i become the turn to guy????????/ According to my records, it was the 43rd of October 2003. BB Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 3, 2005 Report Share Posted November 3, 2005 > well > for one thing..remember that a craving is all in yer mind > more er less > a craving could be a food addiction, the result of > pyschological wants/needs, wanting something because you've > ALWAYS had it, etc and so forth > wot we in the US describe as that *full feeling* is generally > the body saying " hold on there!! you've put too much in > me..stop!!! " and the body releases certain hormones... > > to stop cravings..well.wot are you craving? Initially I thought it was one or more specific nutrients, but I've gone through the full bamut on that -- protein, fat, carbs, etc. Nothing's made a difference. I think what I'm craving the most are flavors associated with meats/meat dishes. > try eating many small meals, instead of 3 big uns > drink plenty of water Done both, although I'm limited on the water to about 2 liters a day > are you stressed? stress often leads to cravings Heh -- that kind of goes without saying these days, doesn't it? > do you often have things to keep you busy, especially yer > mind? boredom causes cravings..keep yer brain functioning on > something... I'm good right up until I stop, usually to grab something to eat. Nothing seems satisfying. <Grumble> > find new ways to treat yerself....if you find yerself craving > something like a dead bird, is there something vegan you > really like but never have? subsititute that Tried that as well, but it's not where the issue lies. It's hard to explain but it's not really THAT kind of craving -- I'm not big on the whole comfort food thing so it isn't so much a matter of treating. > for that full feeling... > stay away from simple carbohydrates all the time...try eatin > things with higher protein, like nuts, tofu, etc > again..lotsa small meals instead of a couple big ones > make sure ya add plenty of fiber to yer diet as well I eat South Beach style -- all whole grains, lots of veggies and fiber. As I mentioned above, I've come to the conclusion that it isn't so much a nutrient I'm looking for as much as a flavor (or more to the point, flavorS). Maybe what I'm needing it to find some vegan dishes that have similar flavors and textures to various traditional meat dishes. For example, I have a chicken soup recipe with flavors dominated by onions, garlic and herbss but when I make it without the chicken it has a wholly different flavor. I need to come up with something that puts a similar flavor in there. Something like the way " Better Than Cream Cheese " approximates the flavors of cream cheese. (I realize I can't get it EXACTLY, of course.) James Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 3, 2005 Report Share Posted November 3, 2005 damn them strange english calendars Peter Nov 3, 2005 1:36 PM Re: Having difficulty moving to a vegan diet.... Hi Fraggle > when did i become the turn to guy????????/ According to my records, it was the 43rd of October 2003. BB PeterTo send an email to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 3, 2005 Report Share Posted November 3, 2005 > Why are you trying to be vegan? It sounds like your motivation is not > strong enough, which would lead me to believe that you are probably > doing it for health reasons, not ethical. > > Chat about your reasons, and maybe we can help sort out :-) While I share many of the same ethical concerns as vegans, my primary motivation is health related (I have congestive heart failure). Eating a strict vegetarian diet serves benefits both perspectives so.... James Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 3, 2005 Report Share Posted November 3, 2005 ok..so you want certain flavors and textures.. but the analogs don't d o it for you? which ones have you tried? er, from another tack..wot do you miss/textures/tastes you want? Noctaire <noctaire Nov 3, 2005 1:48 PM RE: Having difficulty moving to a vegan diet.... > well > for one thing..remember that a craving is all in yer mind > more er less > a craving could be a food addiction, the result of > pyschological wants/needs, wanting something because you've > ALWAYS had it, etc and so forth > wot we in the US describe as that *full feeling* is generally > the body saying " hold on there!! you've put too much in > me..stop!!! " and the body releases certain hormones... > > to stop cravings..well.wot are you craving? Initially I thought it was one or more specific nutrients, but I've gone through the full bamut on that -- protein, fat, carbs, etc. Nothing's made a difference. I think what I'm craving the most are flavors associated with meats/meat dishes. > try eating many small meals, instead of 3 big uns > drink plenty of water Done both, although I'm limited on the water to about 2 liters a day > are you stressed? stress often leads to cravings Heh -- that kind of goes without saying these days, doesn't it? > do you often have things to keep you busy, especially yer > mind? boredom causes cravings..keep yer brain functioning on > something... I'm good right up until I stop, usually to grab something to eat. Nothing seems satisfying. <Grumble> > find new ways to treat yerself....if you find yerself craving > something like a dead bird, is there something vegan you > really like but never have? subsititute that Tried that as well, but it's not where the issue lies. It's hard to explain but it's not really THAT kind of craving -- I'm not big on the whole comfort food thing so it isn't so much a matter of treating. > for that full feeling... > stay away from simple carbohydrates all the time...try eatin > things with higher protein, like nuts, tofu, etc > again..lotsa small meals instead of a couple big ones > make sure ya add plenty of fiber to yer diet as well I eat South Beach style -- all whole grains, lots of veggies and fiber. As I mentioned above, I've come to the conclusion that it isn't so much a nutrient I'm looking for as much as a flavor (or more to the point, flavorS). Maybe what I'm needing it to find some vegan dishes that have similar flavors and textures to various traditional meat dishes. For example, I have a chicken soup recipe with flavors dominated by onions, garlic and herbss but when I make it without the chicken it has a wholly different flavor. I need to come up with something that puts a similar flavor in there. Something like the way " Better Than Cream Cheese " approximates the flavors of cream cheese. (I realize I can't get it EXACTLY, of course.) James To send an email to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 3, 2005 Report Share Posted November 3, 2005 I think that could be the problem. Because you have a need to be healthier quickly, you have adopted a diet which makes you feel as though you are giving something up. If you could change the way you feel to 'I'm eating all this lovely food that is really good for me' it might help get rid of the cravings. Jo - " Noctaire " <noctaire Thursday, November 03, 2005 9:54 PM RE: Re: Having difficulty moving to a vegan diet.... > > Why are you trying to be vegan? It sounds like your motivation is not > > strong enough, which would lead me to believe that you are probably > > doing it for health reasons, not ethical. > > > > Chat about your reasons, and maybe we can help sort out :-) > > While I share many of the same ethical concerns as vegans, my primary > motivation is health related (I have congestive heart failure). Eating a > strict vegetarian diet serves benefits both perspectives so.... > > James Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 4, 2005 Report Share Posted November 4, 2005 > ok..so you want certain flavors and textures.. > but the analogs don't d o it for you? > which ones have you tried? > er, from another tack..wot do you miss/textures/tastes you want? The best " burger substitute " I've found are the Worthington steaks. Morningstar is just nasty and unless something has changed with them, I don't care much for the Bocas. The flavors I'm looking for are the ones that come from chicken and steak, such as the flavor chicken supplies in soup. The texture is more that of steak, but also ground beef such as in meat loaf (same goes for flavor there). I'm going to pick up some TVP and try to put together a meat loaf and a sloppy joe mix; that should help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 4, 2005 Report Share Posted November 4, 2005 oh dear bacchus...worthington products are beyond nasty and a lot of their stuff isn't vegan(and i don't think anything from morningstar is) worthington actually owns morningstar...which is owned by kellogs where do you live? can you get seitan? Noctaire <noctaire Nov 3, 2005 4:42 PM RE: Having difficulty moving to a vegan diet.... > ok..so you want certain flavors and textures.. > but the analogs don't d o it for you? > which ones have you tried? > er, from another tack..wot do you miss/textures/tastes you want? The best " burger substitute " I've found are the Worthington steaks. Morningstar is just nasty and unless something has changed with them, I don't care much for the Bocas. The flavors I'm looking for are the ones that come from chicken and steak, such as the flavor chicken supplies in soup. The texture is more that of steak, but also ground beef such as in meat loaf (same goes for flavor there). I'm going to pick up some TVP and try to put together a meat loaf and a sloppy joe mix; that should help. To send an email to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 4, 2005 Report Share Posted November 4, 2005 > I think that could be the problem. Because you have a need > to be healthier quickly, you have adopted a diet which makes > you feel as though you are giving something up. That's a wee bit of an oversimplification. I've " needed to be healthier " for many years. I've been working on that for some time -- the CHF isn't a recent diagnosis and returning to a strict veg*n diet isn't something I take lightly. One of my overall goals is to move away from reliance on the mass producers for food in general -- be it vegetable or otherwise. We're moving towards permaculture as a way of life in our household, reducing waste and the use of chemicals, growing organically, and so forth. It's only logical to move away from eating animal flesh under such conditions, especially since we're in a suburban environment. Do I feel as though I'm giving something up? Well, of course I do. There are flavors and textures in there that are a cornerstone of my favorite recipes. I have books (in boxes -- we recently moved) that have veg*n recipes and I've perused many of the recipes online. I've no doubt that I'll find many which I enjoy but it will take some time and I need to get through the initial change first. > If you could change the way you feel to 'I'm eating > all this lovely food that is really good for me' it might > help get rid of the cravings. With any change in habit, it takes some time to adjust and that's all this is -- an adjustment period. The problem is that it's pretty powerful and I'm having a difficult time with it. I'm hoping there might be a few folks here who have some suggestions on getting through that adjustment period...other than, " grin and bear it " . James Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 4, 2005 Report Share Posted November 4, 2005 > oh dear bacchus...worthington products are beyond nasty > and a lot of their stuff isn't vegan(and i don't think > anything from morningstar is) worthington actually owns > morningstar...which is owned by kellogs Sure enough -- not vegan. <Sigh> Blew that one big time. > where do you live? Cincinnati. > can you get seitan? Yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 4, 2005 Report Share Posted November 4, 2005 eh..live and learn huh?! cinncinasti ..you have my condolences... i have a bunch of friends out that a-way let me ask wots readily available out there and see wot they suggest cheers fraggle Noctaire <noctaire Nov 3, 2005 5:03 PM RE: Having difficulty moving to a vegan diet.... > oh dear bacchus...worthington products are beyond nasty > and a lot of their stuff isn't vegan(and i don't think > anything from morningstar is) worthington actually owns > morningstar...which is owned by kellogs Sure enough -- not vegan. <Sigh> Blew that one big time. > where do you live? Cincinnati. > can you get seitan? Yes. To send an email to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 4, 2005 Report Share Posted November 4, 2005 Hi James I don't know if it is the same in the US but in England most of the pre-produced foods are very high in salt, which would not be good for your congestive heart condition - so be careful. Also, have you thought of using hawthorn tea regularly. It is said to help restore some of the heart function over time. It might be worth reading up on and then checking with your doctor. Jo , " Noctaire " <noctaire> wrote: > > > I think that could be the problem. Because you have a need > > to be healthier quickly, you have adopted a diet which makes > > you feel as though you are giving something up. > > That's a wee bit of an oversimplification. I've " needed to be > healthier " for many years. I've been working on that for some time -- the > CHF isn't a recent diagnosis and returning to a strict veg*n diet isn't > something I take lightly. One of my overall goals is to move away from > reliance on the mass producers for food in general -- be it vegetable or > otherwise. We're moving towards permaculture as a way of life in our > household, reducing waste and the use of chemicals, growing organically, and > so forth. It's only logical to move away from eating animal flesh under > such conditions, especially since we're in a suburban environment. > > Do I feel as though I'm giving something up? Well, of course I do. There > are flavors and textures in there that are a cornerstone of my favorite > recipes. I have books (in boxes -- we recently moved) that have veg*n > recipes and I've perused many of the recipes online. I've no doubt that > I'll find many which I enjoy but it will take some time and I need to get > through the initial change first. > > > If you could change the way you feel to 'I'm eating > > all this lovely food that is really good for me' it might > > help get rid of the cravings. > > With any change in habit, it takes some time to adjust and that's all this > is -- an adjustment period. The problem is that it's pretty powerful and > I'm having a difficult time with it. I'm hoping there might be a few folks > here who have some suggestions on getting through that adjustment > period...other than, " grin and bear it " . > > James > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 4, 2005 Report Share Posted November 4, 2005 > I don't know if it is the same in the US but in England most of the > pre-produced foods are very high in salt, which would not be good for > your congestive heart condition - so be careful. Thanks for your suggestions. Most processed foods here in the States are indeed very high on sodium. For some time now, I've pretty much made all my own meals from fresh ingredients (LOTS of cookin' goin' on here). CHFers are limited to X number of mg sodium each day and X number of liters of fluids -- in my case it's 3,000mg and 2 liters, although I stay below 2,000mg of sodium myself. My typcal daily intake of sodium is 1,500mg. > Also, have you > thought of using hawthorn tea regularly. It is said to help restore > some of the heart function over time. It might be worth reading up > on and then checking with your doctor. I take a fistful of supplements each day. Although I haven't used hawthorn tea, I have taken the supplements. I have to be careful about that though -- one of hawthorn's effects is the same as that of one of my prescription meds, so their combined potency can be an issue. Roughly 2 years ago, when my CHF was responding to medication or other therapies, the decision was to implant a bi-ventricular pacemaker. BiV pacers are fairly new -- they had only been approved by the FDA a year or two previous to my receiving one. Studies showed great promise for CHFers with this type of pacer. The BiV pacer has 3 leads -- 2 that go to the ventricles, one that goes to the SA node. The nutshell purpose of the unit is to replace the AV node and resynchronize the ventricular beats, thereby strengthening the hearts output (Cardiac Resynchronization Therapy or CRT). This doesn't work for everyone and in some folks it actually makes things worse. Happily, it DID work in my case -- whereas the electrocardiologist told me I would get a 5% increase in ejection fraction (EF) at most, I've enjoyed a nearly 30% increase in EF. I've gone from having to rest when walking 30 feet, to functioning much like a normal person. For example, over the last couple of weeks, we completed our own move from a house I owned and I even helped my brother move into it -- he and my other brother are 6 and 9 years my junior, yet I was able to not only keep up but outperform them both. Not bad for a guy who couldn't hardly walk 30 feet just a scant couple years ago. James Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 4, 2005 Report Share Posted November 4, 2005 Hi James, I started my diet change because of heart problems too. I'm currently vegetarian, but I'll probably end up vegan. It wasn't really much of a change from the way I ate before going officially vegetarian, but I've cut out as much dairy as I can now. After I became officially vegetarian, my attitude started to change and I started to think more ethically towards the animals. This really helped me because I'm not in the least interested in eating meat now, in fact I find it discusting. On the other hand, the world of veggies and plant products is very inviting to me now. This group has helped me change my attitude as well as helped me explore many plant options. When you say you are hungry all the time, have you thought about other reasons than the fact that you are actually hungry? Are you getting enuf water? Maybe you are bored or feeling like you are very limited and so you want to eat? I hate feelign deprived so, I actually started making a mental list of all that I can have and I felt much better about all the wonderful possibilities, because I realized that I really didn't miss what I gave up. As my taste has been changing, I'm also finding some things I enjoy that I never did before. Are you able to get any excercise at all? Is there anyone supportive you can talk to about this. What part of the world are you located in? This is a wonderfully supportive and talkative group. Feel free to ask and share away. Noctaire <noctaire wrote: > Why are you trying to be vegan? It sounds like your motivation is not> strong enough, which would lead me to believe that you are probably> doing it for health reasons, not ethical.> > Chat about your reasons, and maybe we can help sort out :-)While I share many of the same ethical concerns as vegans, my primarymotivation is health related (I have congestive heart failure). Eating astrict vegetarian diet serves benefits both perspectives so....James FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 4, 2005 Report Share Posted November 4, 2005 Hi noctaire, It is not easy! the other day I went to a halloween party and there was a bunch of people grabbing Doritos Chips out of a huge bowl, not thinking twice about it. I WANTED SOME!!! I know that they have msg and a million other things.. but still I couldn't help thinking that it just wasn't fair! I would suggest that you not be too strict at first and then make it a gradual transition to veganism, and to constanltlly remind yourself of why you are doing this.. for your own health...longevity... and to not support those industrys making money out of innocent beings.. feel free to talk about your feelings anytime. , " Noctaire " <noctaire> wrote: > > Several years back, I moved to a vegan diet. After a couple years, I moved > back to an omnivorous diet. I'm trying to return to eating vegan but this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 4, 2005 Report Share Posted November 4, 2005 yes, it is truly unfair..how *they* shove tons of nasty chemical laden products down their gullets in some mass market advertizing frenzy.....eatin themselves into a life with scads of health issues.... while you knowingly can rejoice in a healthy tasty diet life is truly unfair Anouk Sickler <zurumato Nov 4, 2005 9:56 AM Re: Having difficulty moving to a vegan diet.... Hi noctaire, It is not easy! the other day I went to a halloween party and there was a bunch of people grabbing Doritos Chips out of a huge bowl, not thinking twice about it. I WANTED SOME!!! I know that they have msg and a million other things.. but still I couldn't help thinking that it just wasn't fair! I would suggest that you not be too strict at first and then make it a gradual transition to veganism, and to constanltlly remind yourself of why you are doing this.. for your own health...longevity... and to not support those industrys making money out of innocent beings.. feel free to talk about your feelings anytime. , " Noctaire " <noctaire> wrote: > > Several years back, I moved to a vegan diet. After a couple years, I moved > back to an omnivorous diet. I'm trying to return to eating vegan but this To send an email to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 4, 2005 Report Share Posted November 4, 2005 I bet part of that success is due to working hard on all things for your health. Good for you!Noctaire <noctaire wrote: Happily, it DID work in my case -- whereas the electrocardiologisttold me I would get a 5% increase in ejection fraction (EF) at most, I'veenjoyed a nearly 30% increase in EF. I've gone from having to rest whenwalking 30 feet, to functioning much like a normal person. For example,over the last couple of weeks, we completed our own move from a house Iowned and I even helped my brother move into it -- he and my other brotherare 6 and 9 years my junior, yet I was able to not only keep up butoutperform them both. Not bad for a guy who couldn't hardly walk 30 feetjust a scant couple years ago. :)James Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 5, 2005 Report Share Posted November 5, 2005 Hi Anouk, > It is not easy! > the other day I went to a halloween party and there was a bunch > of people grabbing > Doritos Chips out of a huge bowl, not thinking twice about it. > I WANTED SOME!!! > > I know that they have msg and a million other things.. > but still I couldn't help thinking that it just wasn't fair! I tend to crave things I see others eating too. But my version of it's not fair is thinking of the animals that suffered to make the cheese (or whatever the product may be) and the chemicals they put into those chips! Nikki Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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