Vegan Pets

[Guest guest]

hi dave,

 

i guess this is pretty off topic for this list, but here is some good

research supporting a raw meat diet for pets, particularly cats.

while dogs can usually stay pretty healthy on a vegan diet, cats

generally cannot, unless extreme measures are made to ensure the

proper nutrients are included and that all items in the food are

hypoallergenic. i struggled with this issue for a long time, but

after doing a ton of research, i came to the conclusion that a raw

diet, or at least a diet made from premium canned, low-or-no-grain

food, is best for my kitties (who, on this diet, have completely

recovered from a disease my vet said is incurable). hope this answers

some of your questions. i'm not opposed to a vegan pet diet, if it can

be done safely. it's just that all my research has led me to believe

that this is not the best route for my cats.

 

Are Raw Meat Products Safe?

Brief article discussing human-made contaminants versus mother

nature's pathogens

http://www.caberfeidh.com/Safe.htm

 

Living Organisms, Enzymes--and Parasites

Short essays on raw food, parasites, and bacteria

http://www.listservice.net/wellpet/bacteria.htm

 

Parasites as a Part of Life

Feline Future's research into the issue of parasites and raw feeding,

plus some common-sense guidelines

http://www.felinefuture.com/nutrition/bpo_ch2a.php

 

Vegan and vegetarianism in pets

An article about the subject made by one of the best pet food

companies i know of-- that also makes some vegan pet foods

http://www.wysong.net/controversies/vegan_vegetarianism.shtml

 

 

melody

 

http://www.melodysmusic.net

[Guest guest]

Is seed the best food for cockatiels? I read they should be fed on vegetables

 

http://www.petpublishing.com/birdtimes/articles/tielfood.shtml

There loads on the internet about feeding all soets of pets.

 

My other half and I have also talked about animals as pets. We are opposed to

the per

industry but think its ok to keep a rescued animal from a shelter as long as you

treat it

properly. We think a pet bird should have room to fly about and do its natural

thing. Many

birds are social animals so we would not agree with keeping one in a cage on

its own.

 

--- In

, Susan <oceanfest_2000> wrote:

>

> This is one of the issues I'm struggling with as a

> vegan. I know that some vegans don't believe in

> keeping animals as pets and I understand their

> reasoning and tend to agree with some of it. I tend

> to lean away from breeding and selling animals as pets

> when there are plenty that need to be rescued. I

> rescued a cockatiel in July (they are no longer

> exported from Australia and therefore, it it weren't

> for a breeder somewhere I wouldn't have had a

> cockatiel to resuce--ambiguity is my life--). Anyway,

> I have been having a hard time finding bird seed (I

> don't like the formula stuff) that is vegan. Most of

> it has shell in it for calcium. I also, until my

> divorce 15 years ago, have always had dogs. I'm

> considering getting one but have had to think about

> the ethical/health issues for the dog if I get one. I

> couldn't feed a dog it's natural diet if it included

> meat, so I am thinking that I may not be able to have

> a dog; alternatively, I could volunteer my time

> working with dogs at the shelter. At least the bird

> is vegan. I hope I can find a seed mix that is vegan.

> If I mix it myself, it may not be nutritionally

> balanced; however, I already give him what I eat

> pretty often--whole grains, wild rice, semsame

> seeds(calcium), pumpkin seeds (vitamin A), etc. but

> I'm also still using the commercial stuff. He does

> look and act healthier. Oh well. Does anyone know

> where one can get vegan pet food? Most of the sites I

> found have dog/cat but not bird. Thanks. Susan

>

> --- sandi gordon <sandisweeti13132001>

> wrote:

>

> > we actually are were raising one of our dogs veg.

> > since she had a food allergy,she has since been now

> > able to eat other stuff but people thought we were

> > crazy saying we have a vegetarian dog,I was like at

> > least I have someone in my family that eats like

> > me(hahahah)

>

>

>

>

> ________

> DSL – Something to write home about.

> Just $16.99/mo. or less.

> dsl.

>

[Guest guest]

I don't see a problem w/ having pet(animals)as long as you treat them as good as you would treat a child(spoil/pamper/give love to/punish if needed).I think having pets teaches your kids to treat animals w/ kindness and will grow up to love animalsSusan <oceanfest_2000 wrote: This is one of the issues I'm struggling with as avegan. I know that some vegans don't believe inkeeping animals as pets and I understand theirreasoning and tend to agree with some of it. I tendto lean away from breeding and selling animals as petswhen there are plenty that need to be rescued. Irescued a cockatiel in July (they are no longerexported from Australia and therefore, it it weren'tfor a breeder somewhere I wouldn't have had acockatiel to resuce--ambiguity is my life--).

Anyway,I have been having a hard time finding bird seed (Idon't like the formula stuff) that is vegan. Most ofit has shell in it for calcium. I also, until mydivorce 15 years ago, have always had dogs. I'mconsidering getting one but have had to think aboutthe ethical/health issues for the dog if I get one. Icouldn't feed a dog it's natural diet if it includedmeat, so I am thinking that I may not be able to havea dog; alternatively, I could volunteer my timeworking with dogs at the shelter. At least the birdis vegan. I hope I can find a seed mix that is vegan.If I mix it myself, it may not be nutritionallybalanced; however, I already give him what I eatpretty often--whole grains, wild rice, semsameseeds(calcium), pumpkin seeds (vitamin A), etc. butI'm also still using the commercial stuff. He doeslook and act healthier. Oh well. Does anyone knowwhere one can get

vegan pet food? Most of the sites Ifound have dog/cat but not bird. Thanks. Susan--- sandi gordon <sandisweeti13132001wrote:> we actually are were raising one of our dogs veg.> since she had a food allergy,she has since been now> able to eat other stuff but people thought we were> crazy saying we have a vegetarian dog,I was like at> least I have someone in my family that eats like> me(hahahah) ________ DSL – Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less. dsl.

Personals Let fate take it's course directly to your email. See who's waiting for you Personals

[Guest guest]

Thanks, fraggle. She sounds cute. I guess I won't

give up on the idea, I'll just do more research. I'd

like to adopt a doxie some day. Susan

 

--- fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote:

 

> the local pet food stores around here all stock

> vegan dog/cat fud

> whole foods does as well...

> dunno where you'd have to go in antelope valley

> order it online?

>

> ruby is a proud teacup mastiff who's happy and

> vegan...

>

>

> Susan <oceanfest_2000

> Does anyone know

> where one can get vegan pet food? Most of the sites

> I

> found have dog/cat but not bird. Thanks. Susan

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

I know you can get millet sprays in pet shops ( if you dare enter them!) The Valley Vegan............herbvalerian <herbvalerian wrote: Is seed the best food for cockatiels? I read they should be fed on vegetableshttp://www.petpublishing.com/birdtimes/articles/tielfood.shtml There loads on the internet about feeding all soets of pets.My other half and I have also talked about animals as pets. We are opposed to the per industry but think its ok to keep a rescued animal from a shelter as long as you treat it properly. We think a pet bird should have room to fly about and do its natural thing. Many birds are social animals so we would not agree with keeping one in a cage on its own. , Susan

wrote:>> This is one of the issues I'm struggling with as a> vegan. I know that some vegans don't believe in> keeping animals as pets and I understand their> reasoning and tend to agree with some of it. I tend> to lean away from breeding and selling animals as pets> when there are plenty that need to be rescued. I> rescued a cockatiel in July (they are no longer> exported from Australia and therefore, it it weren't> for a breeder somewhere I wouldn't have had a> cockatiel to resuce--ambiguity is my life--). Anyway,> I have been having a hard time finding bird seed (I> don't like the formula stuff) that is vegan. Most of> it has shell in it for calcium. I also, until my> divorce 15 years ago, have always had dogs. I'm> considering getting one but have had to think about> the ethical/health issues for the dog if I get one. I> couldn't feed

a dog it's natural diet if it included> meat, so I am thinking that I may not be able to have> a dog; alternatively, I could volunteer my time> working with dogs at the shelter. At least the bird> is vegan. I hope I can find a seed mix that is vegan.> If I mix it myself, it may not be nutritionally> balanced; however, I already give him what I eat> pretty often--whole grains, wild rice, semsame> seeds(calcium), pumpkin seeds (vitamin A), etc. but> I'm also still using the commercial stuff. He does> look and act healthier. Oh well. Does anyone know> where one can get vegan pet food? Most of the sites I> found have dog/cat but not bird. Thanks. Susan> > --- sandi gordon > wrote:> > > we actually are were raising one of our dogs veg.> > since she had a food allergy,she has since been now> > able to eat other stuff but

people thought we were> > crazy saying we have a vegetarian dog,I was like at> > least I have someone in my family that eats like> > me(hahahah)> > > > > ________ > DSL – Something to write home about. > Just $16.99/mo. or less. > dsl.>

[Guest guest]

My bird eats fruits and veggies now, but he didn't

like them when I first brought him home. He also gets

dehydrated veggies. My avian vet and the general

consensus seems to be to keep your bird on formula

food; however, when I read the ingredients I decided

against it. Not enough variety (mostly wheat and soy

with supplementation) and pleasure is supposed to be

part of eating. The reason for the formula food was

that some birds will only pick out the seed they like

and leave the rest and therefore, have an unblanced

diet. My bird eats a variety of seeds/grains. He is

out when I'm home (not when I'm gone so he can't get

into something that will harm him--birds have drowned

in a glass half full of water, or when someone forgot

to put the toilet lid down--kinda like you childproof

for a two year old but they still find something to

get into). I haven't decided to get him a companion

yet, tiels are one of the few hook beaks that can do

o.k. alone as long as you are willing to be his/her

flock and spend time with him. And believe me, he

roosts on me so much I feel like a tree! Sometimes I

wonder how he manages to stay on when I'm cleaning

house. I still don't like looking at him caged. That

bothers me and because of that I'm not sure if I would

get another bird after him . . . .but then again, he

goes in on his own and considers it home. susan

 

--- herbvalerian <herbvalerian wrote:

 

> Is seed the best food for cockatiels? I read they

> should be fed on vegetables

>

>

>

http://www.petpublishing.com/birdtimes/articles/tielfood.shtml

>

> There loads on the internet about feeding all soets

> of pets.

>

> My other half and I have also talked about animals

> as pets. We are opposed to the per

> industry but think its ok to keep a rescued animal

> from a shelter as long as you treat it

> properly. We think a pet bird should have room to

> fly about and do its natural thing. Many

> birds are social animals so we would not agree with

> keeping one in a cage on its own.

>

> --- In

> , Susan

> <oceanfest_2000> wrote:

> >

> > This is one of the issues I'm struggling with as a

> > vegan. I know that some vegans don't believe in

> > keeping animals as pets and I understand their

> > reasoning and tend to agree with some of it. I

> tend

> > to lean away from breeding and selling animals as

> pets

> > when there are plenty that need to be rescued. I

> > rescued a cockatiel in July (they are no longer

> > exported from Australia and therefore, it it

> weren't

> > for a breeder somewhere I wouldn't have had a

> > cockatiel to resuce--ambiguity is my life--).

> Anyway,

> > I have been having a hard time finding bird seed

> (I

> > don't like the formula stuff) that is vegan. Most

> of

> > it has shell in it for calcium. I also, until my

> > divorce 15 years ago, have always had dogs. I'm

> > considering getting one but have had to think

> about

> > the ethical/health issues for the dog if I get

> one. I

> > couldn't feed a dog it's natural diet if it

> included

> > meat, so I am thinking that I may not be able to

> have

> > a dog; alternatively, I could volunteer my time

> > working with dogs at the shelter. At least the

> bird

> > is vegan. I hope I can find a seed mix that is

> vegan.

> > If I mix it myself, it may not be nutritionally

> > balanced; however, I already give him what I eat

> > pretty often--whole grains, wild rice, semsame

> > seeds(calcium), pumpkin seeds (vitamin A), etc.

> but

> > I'm also still using the commercial stuff. He

> does

> > look and act healthier. Oh well. Does anyone

> know

> > where one can get vegan pet food? Most of the

> sites I

> > found have dog/cat but not bird. Thanks. Susan

> >

> > --- sandi gordon <sandisweeti13132001>

> > wrote:

> >

> > > we actually are were raising one of our dogs

> veg.

> > > since she had a food allergy,she has since been

> now

> > > able to eat other stuff but people thought we

> were

> > > crazy saying we have a vegetarian dog,I was like

> at

> > > least I have someone in my family that eats like

> > > me(hahahah)

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ________

> > DSL – Something to write home about.

> > Just $16.99/mo. or less.

> > dsl.

> >

>

>

>

>

>

 

 

 

 

________

DSL – Something to write home about.

Just $16.99/mo. or less.

dsl.

[Guest guest]

I still have a major issue with people who exploit animals i.e. animal breeders. They are not commodities and should be treated with love and respect. There is so much abuse and abandoned animals which end up having to be put down just for being in the wrong place at the wrong time. If you are going to get an animal or know anyone, please consider an animal sanctuary/shelter/stray first.And when you fall in love with the little scamp, leave a donation. The Valley Vegan.............sandi gordon <sandisweeti13132001 wrote: I don't see a problem w/ having pet(animals)as long as you treat them as good as you would treat a child(spoil/pamper/give love to/punish if needed).I think having pets teaches your kids to treat animals w/ kindness and will grow up to love

animalsSusan <oceanfest_2000 wrote: This is one of the issues I'm struggling with as avegan. I know that some vegans don't believe inkeeping animals as pets and I understand theirreasoning and tend to agree with some of it. I tendto lean away from breeding and selling animals as petswhen there are plenty that need to be rescued. Irescued a cockatiel in July (they are no longerexported from Australia and therefore, it it weren'tfor a breeder somewhere I wouldn't have had acockatiel to resuce--ambiguity is my life--). Anyway,I have been having a hard time finding bird seed (Idon't like the formula stuff) that is vegan. Most ofit has shell in it for calcium. I also, until mydivorce 15 years ago, have always had dogs. I'mconsidering getting one but have

had to think aboutthe ethical/health issues for the dog if I get one. Icouldn't feed a dog it's natural diet if it includedmeat, so I am thinking that I may not be able to havea dog; alternatively, I could volunteer my timeworking with dogs at the shelter. At least the birdis vegan. I hope I can find a seed mix that is vegan.If I mix it myself, it may not be nutritionallybalanced; however, I already give him what I eatpretty often--whole grains, wild rice, semsameseeds(calcium), pumpkin seeds (vitamin A), etc. butI'm also still using the commercial stuff. He doeslook and act healthier. Oh well. Does anyone knowwhere one can get vegan pet food? Most of the sites Ifound have dog/cat but not bird. Thanks. Susan--- sandi gordon <sandisweeti13132001wrote:> we actually are were raising one of our dogs veg.> since she had a food allergy,she

has since been now> able to eat other stuff but people thought we were> crazy saying we have a vegetarian dog,I was like at> least I have someone in my family that eats like> me(hahahah) ________ DSL – Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less. dsl. PersonalsLet fate take it's course directly to your email.See who's waiting for you Personals Peter H

 

How much free photo storage do you get? Store your holiday snaps for FREE with Photos. Get Photos

[Guest guest]

I'm not sure if parrots eat millet - is it a bit small for their beaks. My budgie used to love millet (so do I actually, and it has all the essential enzymes). My daughter buys various items and mixes them for her parrot - nuts, grains etc. And of course they eat fresh fruit and veg as well.

 

Jo

 

-

peter hurd

Friday, December 02, 2005 9:17 PM

Re: Re: Vegan Pets

 

I know you can get millet sprays in pet shops ( if you dare enter them!)

 

The Valley Vegan............herbvalerian <herbvalerian wrote:

Is seed the best food for cockatiels? I read they should be fed on vegetableshttp://www.petpublishing.com/birdtimes/articles/tielfood.shtml There loads on the internet about feeding all soets of pets.My other half and I have also talked about animals as pets. We are opposed to the per industry but think its ok to keep a rescued animal from a shelter as long as you treat it properly. We think a pet bird should have room to fly about and do its natural thing. Many birds are social animals so we would not agree with keeping one in a cage on its own. , Susan wrote:>> This is one of the issues I'm struggling with as a> vegan. I know that some vegans don't believe in> keeping animals as pets and I understand their> reasoning and tend to agree with some of it. I tend> to lean away from breeding and selling animals as pets> when there are plenty that need to be rescued. I> rescued a cockatiel in July (they are no longer> exported from Australia and therefore, it it weren't> for a breeder somewhere I wouldn't have had a> cockatiel to resuce--ambiguity is my life--). Anyway,> I have been having a hard time finding bird seed (I> don't like the formula stuff) that is vegan. Most of> it has shell in it for calcium. I also, until my> divorce 15 years ago, have always had dogs. I'm> considering getting one but have had to think about> the ethical/health issues for the dog if I get one. I> couldn't feed a dog it's natural diet if it included> meat, so I am thinking that I may not be able to have> a dog; alternatively, I could volunteer my time> working with dogs at the shelter. At least the bird> is vegan. I hope I can find a seed mix that is vegan.> If I mix it myself, it may not be nutritionally> balanced; however, I already give him what I eat> pretty often--whole grains, wild rice, semsame> seeds(calcium), pumpkin seeds (vitamin A), etc. but> I'm also still using the commercial stuff. He does> look and act healthier. Oh well. Does anyone know> where one can get vegan pet food? Most of the sites I> found have dog/cat but not bird. Thanks. Susan> > --- sandi gordon > wrote:> > > we actually are were raising one of our dogs veg.> > since she had a food allergy,she has since been now> > able to eat other stuff but people thought we were> > crazy saying we have a vegetarian dog,I was like at> > least I have someone in my family that eats like> > me(hahahah)> > > > > ________ > DSL – Something to write home about. > Just $16.99/mo. or less. > dsl.>

[Guest guest]

The vets probably get a pay off from the suppliers for recommending formula.

 

Jo

 

-

" Susan " <oceanfest_2000

 

Friday, December 02, 2005 9:41 PM

Re: Re: Vegan Pets

 

 

> My bird eats fruits and veggies now, but he didn't

> like them when I first brought him home. He also gets

> dehydrated veggies. My avian vet and the general

> consensus seems to be to keep your bird on formula

> food; however, when I read the ingredients I decided

> against it. Not enough variety (mostly wheat and soy

> with supplementation) and pleasure is supposed to be

> part of eating. The reason for the formula food was

> that some birds will only pick out the seed they like

> and leave the rest and therefore, have an unblanced

> diet. My bird eats a variety of seeds/grains. He is

> out when I'm home (not when I'm gone so he can't get

> into something that will harm him--birds have drowned

> in a glass half full of water, or when someone forgot

> to put the toilet lid down--kinda like you childproof

> for a two year old but they still find something to

> get into). I haven't decided to get him a companion

> yet, tiels are one of the few hook beaks that can do

> o.k. alone as long as you are willing to be his/her

> flock and spend time with him. And believe me, he

> roosts on me so much I feel like a tree! Sometimes I

> wonder how he manages to stay on when I'm cleaning

> house. I still don't like looking at him caged. That

> bothers me and because of that I'm not sure if I would

> get another bird after him . . . .but then again, he

> goes in on his own and considers it home. susan

>

> --- herbvalerian <herbvalerian wrote:

>

> > Is seed the best food for cockatiels? I read they

> > should be fed on vegetables

> >

> >

> >

> http://www.petpublishing.com/birdtimes/articles/tielfood.shtml

> >

> > There loads on the internet about feeding all soets

> > of pets.

> >

> > My other half and I have also talked about animals

> > as pets. We are opposed to the per

> > industry but think its ok to keep a rescued animal

> > from a shelter as long as you treat it

> > properly. We think a pet bird should have room to

> > fly about and do its natural thing. Many

> > birds are social animals so we would not agree with

> > keeping one in a cage on its own.

> >

> > --- In

> > , Susan

> > <oceanfest_2000> wrote:

> > >

> > > This is one of the issues I'm struggling with as a

> > > vegan. I know that some vegans don't believe in

> > > keeping animals as pets and I understand their

> > > reasoning and tend to agree with some of it. I

> > tend

> > > to lean away from breeding and selling animals as

> > pets

> > > when there are plenty that need to be rescued. I

> > > rescued a cockatiel in July (they are no longer

> > > exported from Australia and therefore, it it

> > weren't

> > > for a breeder somewhere I wouldn't have had a

> > > cockatiel to resuce--ambiguity is my life--).

> > Anyway,

> > > I have been having a hard time finding bird seed

> > (I

> > > don't like the formula stuff) that is vegan. Most

> > of

> > > it has shell in it for calcium. I also, until my

> > > divorce 15 years ago, have always had dogs. I'm

> > > considering getting one but have had to think

> > about

> > > the ethical/health issues for the dog if I get

> > one. I

> > > couldn't feed a dog it's natural diet if it

> > included

> > > meat, so I am thinking that I may not be able to

> > have

> > > a dog; alternatively, I could volunteer my time

> > > working with dogs at the shelter. At least the

> > bird

> > > is vegan. I hope I can find a seed mix that is

> > vegan.

> > > If I mix it myself, it may not be nutritionally

> > > balanced; however, I already give him what I eat

> > > pretty often--whole grains, wild rice, semsame

> > > seeds(calcium), pumpkin seeds (vitamin A), etc.

> > but

> > > I'm also still using the commercial stuff. He

> > does

> > > look and act healthier. Oh well. Does anyone

> > know

> > > where one can get vegan pet food? Most of the

> > sites I

> > > found have dog/cat but not bird. Thanks. Susan

> > >

> > > --- sandi gordon <sandisweeti13132001>

> > > wrote:

> > >

> > > > we actually are were raising one of our dogs

> > veg.

> > > > since she had a food allergy,she has since been

> > now

> > > > able to eat other stuff but people thought we

> > were

> > > > crazy saying we have a vegetarian dog,I was like

> > at

> > > > least I have someone in my family that eats like

> > > > me(hahahah)

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > ________

> > > DSL - Something to write home about.

> > > Just $16.99/mo. or less.

> > > dsl.

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

>

> ________

> DSL - Something to write home about.

> Just $16.99/mo. or less.

> dsl.

>

>

>

>

> To send an email to -

>

[Guest guest]

Mixing my own might be the best option. I'll have to

see if I can find a recipe for cockatiels. He does

eat some fruits and veggies, but doesn't seem to care

for them much--wouldn't eat them at all when I first

brought him home. I keep offering him them, though.

He likes millet (he is a small hook beak) but does not

like kafir sprays. Susan

 

--- jo <jo.heartwork wrote:

 

> I'm not sure if parrots eat millet - is it a bit

> small for their beaks. My budgie used to love

> millet (so do I actually, and it has all the

> essential enzymes). My daughter buys various items

> and mixes them for her parrot - nuts, grains etc.

> And of course they eat fresh fruit and veg as well.

>

> Jo

> -

> peter hurd

>

> Friday, December 02, 2005 9:17 PM

> Re: Re: Vegan Pets

>

>

> I know you can get millet sprays in pet shops ( if

> you dare enter them!)

>

> The Valley Vegan............

>

> herbvalerian <herbvalerian wrote:

> Is seed the best food for cockatiels? I read

> they should be fed on vegetables

>

>

>

http://www.petpublishing.com/birdtimes/articles/tielfood.shtml

>

> There loads on the internet about feeding all

> soets of pets.

>

> My other half and I have also talked about

> animals as pets. We are opposed to the per

> industry but think its ok to keep a rescued

> animal from a shelter as long as you treat it

> properly. We think a pet bird should have room

> to fly about and do its natural thing. Many

> birds are social animals so we would not agree

> with keeping one in a cage on its own.

>

> --- In

> , Susan wrote:

> >

> > This is one of the issues I'm struggling with

> as a

> > vegan. I know that some vegans don't believe

> in

> > keeping animals as pets and I understand their

> > reasoning and tend to agree with some of it. I

> tend

> > to lean away from breeding and selling animals

> as pets

> > when there are plenty that need to be rescued.

> I

> > rescued a cockatiel in July (they are no

> longer

> > exported from Australia and therefore, it it

> weren't

> > for a breeder somewhere I wouldn't have had a

> > cockatiel to resuce--ambiguity is my life--).

> Anyway,

> > I have been having a hard time finding bird

> seed (I

> > don't like the formula stuff) that is vegan.

> Most of

> > it has shell in it for calcium. I also, until

> my

> > divorce 15 years ago, have always had dogs.

> I'm

> > considering getting one but have had to think

> about

> > the ethical/health issues for the dog if I get

> one. I

> > couldn't feed a dog it's natural diet if it

> included

> > meat, so I am thinking that I may not be able

> to have

> > a dog; alternatively, I could volunteer my

> time

> > working with dogs at the shelter. At least the

> bird

> > is vegan. I hope I can find a seed mix that is

> vegan.

> > If I mix it myself, it may not be

> nutritionally

> > balanced; however, I already give him what I

> eat

> > pretty often--whole grains, wild rice, semsame

> > seeds(calcium), pumpkin seeds (vitamin A),

> etc. but

> > I'm also still using the commercial stuff. He

> does

> > look and act healthier. Oh well. Does anyone

> know

> > where one can get vegan pet food? Most of the

> sites I

> > found have dog/cat but not bird. Thanks. Susan

> >

> > --- sandi gordon

> > wrote:

> >

> > > we actually are were raising one of our dogs

> veg.

> > > since she had a food allergy,she has since

> been now

> > > able to eat other stuff but people thought

> we were

> > > crazy saying we have a vegetarian dog,I was

> like at

> > > least I have someone in my family that eats

> like

> > > me(hahahah)

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ________

> > DSL - Something to write home about.

> > Just $16.99/mo. or less.

> > dsl.

> >

>

To send an email to

> -

>

[Guest guest]

That could be. One of the books I read said that

research has shown that cockatiels on formula live

longer (poor researched birds). I don't know if I

would enjoy living longer if all I got was the same

cold cereal everyday all day . . .what's the good of

extra life if there is no life in it? Ha!

--- jo <jo.heartwork wrote:

 

> The vets probably get a pay off from the suppliers

> for recommending formula.

>

> Jo

>

> -

> " Susan " <oceanfest_2000

>

> Friday, December 02, 2005 9:41 PM

> Re: Re: Vegan Pets

>

>

> > My bird eats fruits and veggies now, but he didn't

> > like them when I first brought him home. He also

> gets

> > dehydrated veggies. My avian vet and the general

> > consensus seems to be to keep your bird on formula

> > food; however, when I read the ingredients I

> decided

> > against it. Not enough variety (mostly wheat and

> soy

> > with supplementation) and pleasure is supposed to

> be

> > part of eating. The reason for the formula food

> was

> > that some birds will only pick out the seed they

> like

> > and leave the rest and therefore, have an

> unblanced

> > diet. My bird eats a variety of seeds/grains. He

> is

> > out when I'm home (not when I'm gone so he can't

> get

> > into something that will harm him--birds have

> drowned

> > in a glass half full of water, or when someone

> forgot

> > to put the toilet lid down--kinda like you

> childproof

> > for a two year old but they still find something

> to

> > get into). I haven't decided to get him a

> companion

> > yet, tiels are one of the few hook beaks that can

> do

> > o.k. alone as long as you are willing to be

> his/her

> > flock and spend time with him. And believe me, he

> > roosts on me so much I feel like a tree!

> Sometimes I

> > wonder how he manages to stay on when I'm cleaning

> > house. I still don't like looking at him caged.

> That

> > bothers me and because of that I'm not sure if I

> would

> > get another bird after him . . . .but then again,

> he

> > goes in on his own and considers it home. susan

> >

> > --- herbvalerian <herbvalerian wrote:

> >

> > > Is seed the best food for cockatiels? I read

> they

> > > should be fed on vegetables

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

>

http://www.petpublishing.com/birdtimes/articles/tielfood.shtml

> > >

> > > There loads on the internet about feeding all

> soets

> > > of pets.

> > >

> > > My other half and I have also talked about

> animals

> > > as pets. We are opposed to the per

> > > industry but think its ok to keep a rescued

> animal

> > > from a shelter as long as you treat it

> > > properly. We think a pet bird should have room

> to

> > > fly about and do its natural thing. Many

> > > birds are social animals so we would not agree

> with

> > > keeping one in a cage on its own.

> > >

> > > --- In

> > > , Susan

> > > <oceanfest_2000> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > This is one of the issues I'm struggling with

> as a

> > > > vegan. I know that some vegans don't believe

> in

> > > > keeping animals as pets and I understand their

> > > > reasoning and tend to agree with some of it.

> I

> > > tend

> > > > to lean away from breeding and selling animals

> as

> > > pets

> > > > when there are plenty that need to be rescued.

> I

> > > > rescued a cockatiel in July (they are no

> longer

> > > > exported from Australia and therefore, it it

> > > weren't

> > > > for a breeder somewhere I wouldn't have had a

> > > > cockatiel to resuce--ambiguity is my life--).

> > > Anyway,

> > > > I have been having a hard time finding bird

> seed

> > > (I

> > > > don't like the formula stuff) that is vegan.

> Most

> > > of

> > > > it has shell in it for calcium. I also, until

> my

> > > > divorce 15 years ago, have always had dogs.

> I'm

> > > > considering getting one but have had to think

> > > about

> > > > the ethical/health issues for the dog if I get

> > > one. I

> > > > couldn't feed a dog it's natural diet if it

> > > included

> > > > meat, so I am thinking that I may not be able

> to

> > > have

> > > > a dog; alternatively, I could volunteer my

> time

> > > > working with dogs at the shelter. At least

> the

> > > bird

> > > > is vegan. I hope I can find a seed mix that

> is

> > > vegan.

> > > > If I mix it myself, it may not be

> nutritionally

> > > > balanced; however, I already give him what I

> eat

> > > > pretty often--whole grains, wild rice, semsame

> > > > seeds(calcium), pumpkin seeds (vitamin A),

> etc.

> > > but

> > > > I'm also still using the commercial stuff. He

> > > does

> > > > look and act healthier. Oh well. Does anyone

> > > know

> > > > where one can get vegan pet food? Most of the

> > > sites I

> > > > found have dog/cat but not bird. Thanks.

> Susan

> > > >

> > > > --- sandi gordon <sandisweeti13132001>

> > > > wrote:

> > > >

> > > > > we actually are were raising one of our dogs

> > > veg.

> > > > > since she had a food allergy,she has since

> been

> > > now

> > > > > able to eat other stuff but people thought

> we

> > > were

> > > > > crazy saying we have a vegetarian dog,I was

> like

> > > at

> > > > > least I have someone in my family that eats

> like

> > > > > me(hahahah)

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > ________

> > > > DSL - Something to write home about.

> > > > Just $16.99/mo. or less.

> > > > dsl.

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ________

> > DSL - Something to write home about.

> > Just $16.99/mo. or less.

> > dsl.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > To send an email to

> -

> >

[Guest guest]

Your bird sounds lovely. I would love to give a home to a rescued bird but I am

not well

myself and I worry I would not always be able to look after it properly. I love

to watch wild

birds, fortunately there are quite a lot where I live, I love the crow family in

particular. I

find that if I have the right attitude when I walk past them they don't fly off

and just ignore

me, I like that!

How does it work when he wants a wee or poo? Does he drop it anywhere? Sorry if

this

sounds a stupid question but I have wondered about this one!

 

, Susan <oceanfest_2000> wrote:

>

> My bird eats fruits and veggies now, but he didn't

> like them when I first brought him home. He also gets

> dehydrated veggies. My avian vet and the general

> consensus seems to be to keep your bird on formula

> food; however, when I read the ingredients I decided

> against it. Not enough variety (mostly wheat and soy

> with supplementation) and pleasure is supposed to be

> part of eating. The reason for the formula food was

> that some birds will only pick out the seed they like

> and leave the rest and therefore, have an unblanced

> diet. My bird eats a variety of seeds/grains. He is

> out when I'm home (not when I'm gone so he can't get

> into something that will harm him--birds have drowned

> in a glass half full of water, or when someone forgot

> to put the toilet lid down--kinda like you childproof

> for a two year old but they still find something to

> get into). I haven't decided to get him a companion

> yet, tiels are one of the few hook beaks that can do

> o.k. alone as long as you are willing to be his/her

> flock and spend time with him. And believe me, he

> roosts on me so much I feel like a tree! Sometimes I

> wonder how he manages to stay on when I'm cleaning

> house. I still don't like looking at him caged. That

> bothers me and because of that I'm not sure if I would

> get another bird after him . . . .but then again, he

> goes in on his own and considers it home. susan

>

> --- herbvalerian <herbvalerian> wrote:

>

> > Is seed the best food for cockatiels? I read they

> > should be fed on vegetables

> >

> >

> >

> http://www.petpublishing.com/birdtimes/articles/tielfood.shtml

> >

> > There loads on the internet about feeding all soets

> > of pets.

> >

> > My other half and I have also talked about animals

> > as pets. We are opposed to the per

> > industry but think its ok to keep a rescued animal

> > from a shelter as long as you treat it

> > properly. We think a pet bird should have room to

> > fly about and do its natural thing. Many

> > birds are social animals so we would not agree with

> > keeping one in a cage on its own.

> >

> > --- In

> > , Susan

> > <oceanfest_2000> wrote:

> > >

> > > This is one of the issues I'm struggling with as a

> > > vegan. I know that some vegans don't believe in

> > > keeping animals as pets and I understand their

> > > reasoning and tend to agree with some of it. I

> > tend

> > > to lean away from breeding and selling animals as

> > pets

> > > when there are plenty that need to be rescued. I

> > > rescued a cockatiel in July (they are no longer

> > > exported from Australia and therefore, it it

> > weren't

> > > for a breeder somewhere I wouldn't have had a

> > > cockatiel to resuce--ambiguity is my life--).

> > Anyway,

> > > I have been having a hard time finding bird seed

> > (I

> > > don't like the formula stuff) that is vegan. Most

> > of

> > > it has shell in it for calcium. I also, until my

> > > divorce 15 years ago, have always had dogs. I'm

> > > considering getting one but have had to think

> > about

> > > the ethical/health issues for the dog if I get

> > one. I

> > > couldn't feed a dog it's natural diet if it

> > included

> > > meat, so I am thinking that I may not be able to

> > have

> > > a dog; alternatively, I could volunteer my time

> > > working with dogs at the shelter. At least the

> > bird

> > > is vegan. I hope I can find a seed mix that is

> > vegan.

> > > If I mix it myself, it may not be nutritionally

> > > balanced; however, I already give him what I eat

> > > pretty often--whole grains, wild rice, semsame

> > > seeds(calcium), pumpkin seeds (vitamin A), etc.

> > but

> > > I'm also still using the commercial stuff. He

> > does

> > > look and act healthier. Oh well. Does anyone

> > know

> > > where one can get vegan pet food? Most of the

> > sites I

> > > found have dog/cat but not bird. Thanks. Susan

> > >

> > > --- sandi gordon <sandisweeti13132001>

> > > wrote:

> > >

> > > > we actually are were raising one of our dogs

> > veg.

> > > > since she had a food allergy,she has since been

> > now

> > > > able to eat other stuff but people thought we

> > were

> > > > crazy saying we have a vegetarian dog,I was like

> > at

> > > > least I have someone in my family that eats like

> > > > me(hahahah)

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > ________

> > > DSL – Something to write home about.

> > > Just $16.99/mo. or less.

> > > dsl.

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

>

> ________

> DSL – Something to write home about.

> Just $16.99/mo. or less.

> dsl.

>

[Guest guest]

I love birds, too. I have feeders all around the

house and put things in my organic garden to help get

them through the winter. You just leave the seed heads

on when you do the fall cleanup. Crows are lovely, but

it's too bad they like to attack nests. I was lucky

to see a sparrow hawk in my own yard, he/she was in

the bushes after the sparrows when I stopped to see

what all the fuss was about. He/she flew out (empty

footed) and landed nearby and let me get a good look

at him/her. It was awsome!

 

Wee and Poo are important considerations when you have

any pet! Ha! I keep a box of tissues handy. The

books say you can train your bird to go on demand by

putting him on his cage every 15 minutes, but I

personally think that's training yourself and I don't

want to spend my bird time watching the clock instead

of playing with the bird. It's a small sacrifice and

easy cleanup. When in thier nest, baby birds will

usually back up to the edge of the nest and poo over

the side to avoid soiling the living quarters. My

bird fluffs up and backs up, so I know when a bomb is

about to hit! He tries to miss me but often fails. I

wish he had one of those vehicle back-up signals to

warn me! The only other thing about cockatiels (and

cockatoos) that I wasn't aware of when I got him was

that they have a very fine feather powder they use

when they groom (in addition to the preen gland oil)

and when he fluffs out the powder poofs out just like

a powder puff or Pigpen on Charlie Brown. I bought an

air filter and it seems to help. On the other side,

think of all the stuff we expose our pets to! I think

it's a fair trade. When he is on my lap and I start

playing music conductor with my hands he starts

whistling tunes; when I put my hands down he stops;

when I start again, he starts again. Too cute! I've

made arrangements for one of my daughters to take my

bird upon my death should he outlive me (they live for

17-20 years and my vet had one coming in until it was

32!). If you can make arrangements for someone to

take over for you should your condition change, I

highly recommend getting a pet. Pets are very

healing. They alieve lonliness and they cause the

release of healing/mood elevating endorphins in your

body and you have an opportunity to give a pet love

and care. Susan

 

--- herbvalerian <herbvalerian wrote:

 

> Your bird sounds lovely. I would love to give a home

> to a rescued bird but I am not well

> myself and I worry I would not always be able to

> look after it properly. I love to watch wild

> birds, fortunately there are quite a lot where I

> live, I love the crow family in particular. I

> find that if I have the right attitude when I walk

> past them they don't fly off and just ignore

> me, I like that!

> How does it work when he wants a wee or poo? Does he

> drop it anywhere? Sorry if this

> sounds a stupid question but I have wondered about

> this one!

>

> , Susan

> <oceanfest_2000> wrote:

> >

> > My bird eats fruits and veggies now, but he didn't

> > like them when I first brought him home. He also

> gets

> > dehydrated veggies. My avian vet and the general

> > consensus seems to be to keep your bird on formula

> > food; however, when I read the ingredients I

> decided

> > against it. Not enough variety (mostly wheat and

> soy

> > with supplementation) and pleasure is supposed to

> be

> > part of eating. The reason for the formula food

> was

> > that some birds will only pick out the seed they

> like

> > and leave the rest and therefore, have an

> unblanced

> > diet. My bird eats a variety of seeds/grains. He

> is

> > out when I'm home (not when I'm gone so he can't

> get

> > into something that will harm him--birds have

> drowned

> > in a glass half full of water, or when someone

> forgot

> > to put the toilet lid down--kinda like you

> childproof

> > for a two year old but they still find something

> to

> > get into). I haven't decided to get him a

> companion

> > yet, tiels are one of the few hook beaks that can

> do

> > o.k. alone as long as you are willing to be

> his/her

> > flock and spend time with him. And believe me, he

> > roosts on me so much I feel like a tree!

> Sometimes I

> > wonder how he manages to stay on when I'm cleaning

> > house. I still don't like looking at him caged.

> That

> > bothers me and because of that I'm not sure if I

> would

> > get another bird after him . . . .but then again,

> he

> > goes in on his own and considers it home. susan

> >

> > --- herbvalerian <herbvalerian> wrote:

> >

> > > Is seed the best food for cockatiels? I read

> they

> > > should be fed on vegetables

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

>

http://www.petpublishing.com/birdtimes/articles/tielfood.shtml

> > >

> > > There loads on the internet about feeding all

> soets

> > > of pets.

> > >

> > > My other half and I have also talked about

> animals

> > > as pets. We are opposed to the per

> > > industry but think its ok to keep a rescued

> animal

> > > from a shelter as long as you treat it

> > > properly. We think a pet bird should have room

> to

> > > fly about and do its natural thing. Many

> > > birds are social animals so we would not agree

> with

> > > keeping one in a cage on its own.

> > >

> > > --- In

> > > , Susan

> > > <oceanfest_2000> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > This is one of the issues I'm struggling with

> as a

> > > > vegan. I know that some vegans don't believe

> in

> > > > keeping animals as pets and I understand their

> > > > reasoning and tend to agree with some of it.

> I

> > > tend

> > > > to lean away from breeding and selling animals

> as

> > > pets

> > > > when there are plenty that need to be rescued.

> I

> > > > rescued a cockatiel in July (they are no

> longer

> > > > exported from Australia and therefore, it it

> > > weren't

> > > > for a breeder somewhere I wouldn't have had a

> > > > cockatiel to resuce--ambiguity is my life--).

> > > Anyway,

> > > > I have been having a hard time finding bird

> seed

> > > (I

> > > > don't like the formula stuff) that is vegan.

> Most

> > > of

> > > > it has shell in it for calcium. I also, until

> my

> > > > divorce 15 years ago, have always had dogs.

> I'm

> > > > considering getting one but have had to think

> > > about

> > > > the ethical/health issues for the dog if I get

> > > one. I

> > > > couldn't feed a dog it's natural diet if it

> > > included

> > > > meat, so I am thinking that I may not be able

> to

> > > have

> > > > a dog; alternatively, I could volunteer my

> time

> > > > working with dogs at the shelter. At least

> the

> > > bird

> > > > is vegan. I hope I can find a seed mix that

> is

> > > vegan.

> > > > If I mix it myself, it may not be

> nutritionally

> > > > balanced; however, I already give him what I

> eat

> > > > pretty often--whole grains, wild rice, semsame

> > > > seeds(calcium), pumpkin seeds (vitamin A),

> etc.

> > > but

> > > > I'm also still using the commercial stuff. He

> > > does

> > > > look and act healthier. Oh well. Does anyone

> > > know

> > > > where one can get vegan pet food? Most of the

> > > sites I

> > > > found have dog/cat but not bird. Thanks.

> Susan

> > > >

> > > > --- sandi gordon <sandisweeti13132001>

> > > > wrote:

> > > >

> > > > > we actually are were raising one of our dogs

> > > veg.

> > > > > since she had a food allergy,she has since

> been

> > > now

> > > > > able to eat other stuff but people thought

> we

> > > were

> > > > > crazy saying we have a vegetarian dog,I was

> like

> > > at

> > > > > least I have someone in my family that eats

> like

> > > > > me(hahahah)

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > ________

> > > > DSL – Something to write home about.

> > > > Just $16.99/mo. or less.

> > > > dsl.

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ________

> > DSL – Something to write home about.

> > Just $16.99/mo. or less.

> > dsl.

> >

>

>

=== message truncated ===

 

 

 

 

 

Start your day with - Make it your home page!

http://www./r/hs

[Guest guest]

Passing thru a back lane in Newcastle this morning we stopped to watch a

blackbird

getting the crumbs from a butty bag. He grabbed the butty bag with his beak amd

shook it

and then tossed it aside. He then ate the crumbs that he had shaken on the

ground. He

then picked up the bag again and repeated the process. We watched him do this

about 5

times but we did have to get home, so we started along the the lane towards him,

unfortunately the lane was not wide enough to go round him. My friend shook the

rest of

the crumbs out the bag and replaced the bag where it was, in order not to piss

the

blackbird off.

Hopefully he wasn't too shy and returned for them. Does this count as " tool use "

or is it

just intelligence?

 

, Susan <oceanfest_2000> wrote:

>

> I love birds, too. I have feeders all around the

> house and put things in my organic garden to help get

> them through the winter. You just leave the seed heads

> on when you do the fall cleanup. Crows are lovely, but

> it's too bad they like to attack nests. I was lucky

> to see a sparrow hawk in my own yard, he/she was in

> the bushes after the sparrows when I stopped to see

> what all the fuss was about. He/she flew out (empty

> footed) and landed nearby and let me get a good look

> at him/her. It was awsome!

>

> Wee and Poo are important considerations when you have

> any pet! Ha! I keep a box of tissues handy. The

> books say you can train your bird to go on demand by

> putting him on his cage every 15 minutes, but I

> personally think that's training yourself and I don't

> want to spend my bird time watching the clock instead

> of playing with the bird. It's a small sacrifice and

> easy cleanup. When in thier nest, baby birds will

> usually back up to the edge of the nest and poo over

> the side to avoid soiling the living quarters. My

> bird fluffs up and backs up, so I know when a bomb is

> about to hit! He tries to miss me but often fails. I

> wish he had one of those vehicle back-up signals to

> warn me! The only other thing about cockatiels (and

> cockatoos) that I wasn't aware of when I got him was

> that they have a very fine feather powder they use

> when they groom (in addition to the preen gland oil)

> and when he fluffs out the powder poofs out just like

> a powder puff or Pigpen on Charlie Brown. I bought an

> air filter and it seems to help. On the other side,

> think of all the stuff we expose our pets to! I think

> it's a fair trade. When he is on my lap and I start

> playing music conductor with my hands he starts

> whistling tunes; when I put my hands down he stops;

> when I start again, he starts again. Too cute! I've

> made arrangements for one of my daughters to take my

> bird upon my death should he outlive me (they live for

> 17-20 years and my vet had one coming in until it was

> 32!). If you can make arrangements for someone to

> take over for you should your condition change, I

> highly recommend getting a pet. Pets are very

> healing. They alieve lonliness and they cause the

> release of healing/mood elevating endorphins in your

> body and you have an opportunity to give a pet love

> and care. Susan

>

> --- herbvalerian <herbvalerian> wrote:

>

> > Your bird sounds lovely. I would love to give a home

> > to a rescued bird but I am not well

> > myself and I worry I would not always be able to

> > look after it properly. I love to watch wild

> > birds, fortunately there are quite a lot where I

> > live, I love the crow family in particular. I

> > find that if I have the right attitude when I walk

> > past them they don't fly off and just ignore

> > me, I like that!

> > How does it work when he wants a wee or poo? Does he

> > drop it anywhere? Sorry if this

> > sounds a stupid question but I have wondered about

> > this one!

> >

> > , Susan

> > <oceanfest_2000> wrote:

> > >

> > > My bird eats fruits and veggies now, but he didn't

> > > like them when I first brought him home. He also

> > gets

> > > dehydrated veggies. My avian vet and the general

> > > consensus seems to be to keep your bird on formula

> > > food; however, when I read the ingredients I

> > decided

> > > against it. Not enough variety (mostly wheat and

> > soy

> > > with supplementation) and pleasure is supposed to

> > be

> > > part of eating. The reason for the formula food

> > was

> > > that some birds will only pick out the seed they

> > like

> > > and leave the rest and therefore, have an

> > unblanced

> > > diet. My bird eats a variety of seeds/grains. He

> > is

> > > out when I'm home (not when I'm gone so he can't

> > get

> > > into something that will harm him--birds have

> > drowned

> > > in a glass half full of water, or when someone

> > forgot

> > > to put the toilet lid down--kinda like you

> > childproof

> > > for a two year old but they still find something

> > to

> > > get into). I haven't decided to get him a

> > companion

> > > yet, tiels are one of the few hook beaks that can

> > do

> > > o.k. alone as long as you are willing to be

> > his/her

> > > flock and spend time with him. And believe me, he

> > > roosts on me so much I feel like a tree!

> > Sometimes I

> > > wonder how he manages to stay on when I'm cleaning

> > > house. I still don't like looking at him caged.

> > That

> > > bothers me and because of that I'm not sure if I

> > would

> > > get another bird after him . . . .but then again,

> > he

> > > goes in on his own and considers it home. susan

> > >

> > > --- herbvalerian <herbvalerian> wrote:

> > >

> > > > Is seed the best food for cockatiels? I read

> > they

> > > > should be fed on vegetables

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

> http://www.petpublishing.com/birdtimes/articles/tielfood.shtml

> > > >

> > > > There loads on the internet about feeding all

> > soets

> > > > of pets.

> > > >

> > > > My other half and I have also talked about

> > animals

> > > > as pets. We are opposed to the per

> > > > industry but think its ok to keep a rescued

> > animal

> > > > from a shelter as long as you treat it

> > > > properly. We think a pet bird should have room

> > to

> > > > fly about and do its natural thing. Many

> > > > birds are social animals so we would not agree

> > with

> > > > keeping one in a cage on its own.

> > > >

> > > > --- In

> > > > , Susan

> > > > <oceanfest_2000> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > This is one of the issues I'm struggling with

> > as a

> > > > > vegan. I know that some vegans don't believe

> > in

> > > > > keeping animals as pets and I understand their

> > > > > reasoning and tend to agree with some of it.

> > I

> > > > tend

> > > > > to lean away from breeding and selling animals

> > as

> > > > pets

> > > > > when there are plenty that need to be rescued.

> > I

> > > > > rescued a cockatiel in July (they are no

> > longer

> > > > > exported from Australia and therefore, it it

> > > > weren't

> > > > > for a breeder somewhere I wouldn't have had a

> > > > > cockatiel to resuce--ambiguity is my life--).

> > > > Anyway,

> > > > > I have been having a hard time finding bird

> > seed

> > > > (I

> > > > > don't like the formula stuff) that is vegan.

> > Most

> > > > of

> > > > > it has shell in it for calcium. I also, until

> > my

> > > > > divorce 15 years ago, have always had dogs.

> > I'm

> > > > > considering getting one but have had to think

> > > > about

> > > > > the ethical/health issues for the dog if I get

> > > > one. I

> > > > > couldn't feed a dog it's natural diet if it

> > > > included

> > > > > meat, so I am thinking that I may not be able

> > to

> > > > have

> > > > > a dog; alternatively, I could volunteer my

> > time

> > > > > working with dogs at the shelter. At least

> > the

> > > > bird

> > > > > is vegan. I hope I can find a seed mix that

> > is

> > > > vegan.

> > > > > If I mix it myself, it may not be

> > nutritionally

> > > > > balanced; however, I already give him what I

> > eat

> > > > > pretty often--whole grains, wild rice, semsame

> > > > > seeds(calcium), pumpkin seeds (vitamin A),

> > etc.

> > > > but

> > > > > I'm also still using the commercial stuff. He

> > > > does

> > > > > look and act healthier. Oh well. Does anyone

> > > > know

> > > > > where one can get vegan pet food? Most of the

> > > > sites I

> > > > > found have dog/cat but not bird. Thanks.

> > Susan

> > > > >

> > > > > --- sandi gordon <sandisweeti13132001>

> > > > > wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > > we actually are were raising one of our dogs

> > > > veg.

> > > > > > since she had a food allergy,she has since

> > been

> > > > now

> > > > > > able to eat other stuff but people thought

> > we

> > > > were

> > > > > > crazy saying we have a vegetarian dog,I was

> > like

> > > > at

> > > > > > least I have someone in my family that eats

> > like

> > > > > > me(hahahah)

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > ________

> > > > > DSL – Something to write home about.

> > > > > Just $16.99/mo. or less.

> > > > > dsl.

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > ________

> > > DSL – Something to write home about.

> > > Just $16.99/mo. or less.

> > > dsl.

> > >

> >

> >

> === message truncated ===

>

>

>

>

>

> Start your day with - Make it your home page!

> http://www./r/hs

>

[Guest guest]

not sure wot a butty bag is...but, its general inteligence, not tool use

if the bird had used a stick to open the bag er somesuch, that would be tool

use...

 

 

 

herbvalerian <herbvalerian

Dec 5, 2005 6:41 AM

 

Re: Vegan Pets

 

Passing thru a back lane in Newcastle this morning we stopped to watch a

blackbird

getting the crumbs from a butty bag. He grabbed the butty bag with his beak amd

shook it

and then tossed it aside. He then ate the crumbs that he had shaken on the

ground. He

then picked up the bag again and repeated the process. We watched him do this

about 5

times but we did have to get home, so we started along the the lane towards him,

unfortunately the lane was not wide enough to go round him. My friend shook the

rest of

the crumbs out the bag and replaced the bag where it was, in order not to piss

the

blackbird off.

Hopefully he wasn't too shy and returned for them. Does this count as " tool use "

or is it

just intelligence?

 

, Susan <oceanfest_2000> wrote:

>

> I love birds, too. I have feeders all around the

> house and put things in my organic garden to help get

> them through the winter. You just leave the seed heads

> on when you do the fall cleanup. Crows are lovely, but

> it's too bad they like to attack nests. I was lucky

> to see a sparrow hawk in my own yard, he/she was in

> the bushes after the sparrows when I stopped to see

> what all the fuss was about. He/she flew out (empty

> footed) and landed nearby and let me get a good look

> at him/her. It was awsome!

>

> Wee and Poo are important considerations when you have

> any pet! Ha! I keep a box of tissues handy. The

> books say you can train your bird to go on demand by

> putting him on his cage every 15 minutes, but I

> personally think that's training yourself and I don't

> want to spend my bird time watching the clock instead

> of playing with the bird. It's a small sacrifice and

> easy cleanup. When in thier nest, baby birds will

> usually back up to the edge of the nest and poo over

> the side to avoid soiling the living quarters. My

> bird fluffs up and backs up, so I know when a bomb is

> about to hit! He tries to miss me but often fails. I

> wish he had one of those vehicle back-up signals to

> warn me! The only other thing about cockatiels (and

> cockatoos) that I wasn't aware of when I got him was

> that they have a very fine feather powder they use

> when they groom (in addition to the preen gland oil)

> and when he fluffs out the powder poofs out just like

> a powder puff or Pigpen on Charlie Brown. I bought an

> air filter and it seems to help. On the other side,

> think of all the stuff we expose our pets to! I think

> it's a fair trade. When he is on my lap and I start

> playing music conductor with my hands he starts

> whistling tunes; when I put my hands down he stops;

> when I start again, he starts again. Too cute! I've

> made arrangements for one of my daughters to take my

> bird upon my death should he outlive me (they live for

> 17-20 years and my vet had one coming in until it was

> 32!). If you can make arrangements for someone to

> take over for you should your condition change, I

> highly recommend getting a pet. Pets are very

> healing. They alieve lonliness and they cause the

> release of healing/mood elevating endorphins in your

> body and you have an opportunity to give a pet love

> and care. Susan

>

> --- herbvalerian <herbvalerian> wrote:

>

> > Your bird sounds lovely. I would love to give a home

> > to a rescued bird but I am not well

> > myself and I worry I would not always be able to

> > look after it properly. I love to watch wild

> > birds, fortunately there are quite a lot where I

> > live, I love the crow family in particular. I

> > find that if I have the right attitude when I walk

> > past them they don't fly off and just ignore

> > me, I like that!

> > How does it work when he wants a wee or poo? Does he

> > drop it anywhere? Sorry if this

> > sounds a stupid question but I have wondered about

> > this one!

> >

> > , Susan

> > <oceanfest_2000> wrote:

> > >

> > > My bird eats fruits and veggies now, but he didn't

> > > like them when I first brought him home. He also

> > gets

> > > dehydrated veggies. My avian vet and the general

> > > consensus seems to be to keep your bird on formula

> > > food; however, when I read the ingredients I

> > decided

> > > against it. Not enough variety (mostly wheat and

> > soy

> > > with supplementation) and pleasure is supposed to

> > be

> > > part of eating. The reason for the formula food

> > was

> > > that some birds will only pick out the seed they

> > like

> > > and leave the rest and therefore, have an

> > unblanced

> > > diet. My bird eats a variety of seeds/grains. He

> > is

> > > out when I'm home (not when I'm gone so he can't

> > get

> > > into something that will harm him--birds have

> > drowned

> > > in a glass half full of water, or when someone

> > forgot

> > > to put the toilet lid down--kinda like you

> > childproof

> > > for a two year old but they still find something

> > to

> > > get into). I haven't decided to get him a

> > companion

> > > yet, tiels are one of the few hook beaks that can

> > do

> > > o.k. alone as long as you are willing to be

> > his/her

> > > flock and spend time with him. And believe me, he

> > > roosts on me so much I feel like a tree!

> > Sometimes I

> > > wonder how he manages to stay on when I'm cleaning

> > > house. I still don't like looking at him caged.

> > That

> > > bothers me and because of that I'm not sure if I

> > would

> > > get another bird after him . . . .but then again,

> > he

> > > goes in on his own and considers it home. susan

> > >

> > > --- herbvalerian <herbvalerian> wrote:

> > >

> > > > Is seed the best food for cockatiels? I read

> > they

> > > > should be fed on vegetables

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

> http://www.petpublishing.com/birdtimes/articles/tielfood.shtml

> > > >

> > > > There loads on the internet about feeding all

> > soets

> > > > of pets.

> > > >

> > > > My other half and I have also talked about

> > animals

> > > > as pets. We are opposed to the per

> > > > industry but think its ok to keep a rescued

> > animal

> > > > from a shelter as long as you treat it

> > > > properly. We think a pet bird should have room

> > to

> > > > fly about and do its natural thing. Many

> > > > birds are social animals so we would not agree

> > with

> > > > keeping one in a cage on its own.

> > > >

> > > > --- In

> > > > , Susan

> > > > <oceanfest_2000> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > This is one of the issues I'm struggling with

> > as a

> > > > > vegan. I know that some vegans don't believe

> > in

> > > > > keeping animals as pets and I understand their

> > > > > reasoning and tend to agree with some of it.

> > I

> > > > tend

> > > > > to lean away from breeding and selling animals

> > as

> > > > pets

> > > > > when there are plenty that need to be rescued.

> > I

> > > > > rescued a cockatiel in July (they are no

> > longer

> > > > > exported from Australia and therefore, it it

> > > > weren't

> > > > > for a breeder somewhere I wouldn't have had a

> > > > > cockatiel to resuce--ambiguity is my life--).

> > > > Anyway,

> > > > > I have been having a hard time finding bird

> > seed

> > > > (I

> > > > > don't like the formula stuff) that is vegan.

> > Most

> > > > of

> > > > > it has shell in it for calcium. I also, until

> > my

> > > > > divorce 15 years ago, have always had dogs.

> > I'm

> > > > > considering getting one but have had to think

> > > > about

> > > > > the ethical/health issues for the dog if I get

> > > > one. I

> > > > > couldn't feed a dog it's natural diet if it

> > > > included

> > > > > meat, so I am thinking that I may not be able

> > to

> > > > have

> > > > > a dog; alternatively, I could volunteer my

> > time

> > > > > working with dogs at the shelter. At least

> > the

> > > > bird

> > > > > is vegan. I hope I can find a seed mix that

> > is

> > > > vegan.

> > > > > If I mix it myself, it may not be

> > nutritionally

> > > > > balanced; however, I already give him what I

> > eat

> > > > > pretty often--whole grains, wild rice, semsame

> > > > > seeds(calcium), pumpkin seeds (vitamin A),

> > etc.

> > > > but

> > > > > I'm also still using the commercial stuff. He

> > > > does

> > > > > look and act healthier. Oh well. Does anyone

> > > > know

> > > > > where one can get vegan pet food? Most of the

> > > > sites I

> > > > > found have dog/cat but not bird. Thanks.

> > Susan

> > > > >

> > > > > --- sandi gordon <sandisweeti13132001>

> > > > > wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > > we actually are were raising one of our dogs

> > > > veg.

> > > > > > since she had a food allergy,she has since

> > been

> > > > now

> > > > > > able to eat other stuff but people thought

> > we

> > > > were

> > > > > > crazy saying we have a vegetarian dog,I was

> > like

> > > > at

> > > > > > least I have someone in my family that eats

> > like

> > > > > > me(hahahah)

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > ________

> > > > > DSL – Something to write home about.

> > > > > Just $16.99/mo. or less.

> > > > > dsl.

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > ________

> > > DSL – Something to write home about.

> > > Just $16.99/mo. or less.

> > > dsl.

> > >

> >

> >

> === message truncated ===

>

>

>

>

>

> Start your day with - Make it your home page!

> http://www./r/hs

>

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

To send an email to -

 

[Guest guest]

Hi Herbal

 

Sounds to me like it's human training :-)

 

Now, on the subject of blackbirds... I'm convinced they come from a

different realm of existence... when they fly out in front of you, they just

appear from nowhere, and then completely disappear again without a trace - I

reckon they only briefly pass through our reality :-)

 

BB

Peter

 

-

" herbvalerian " <herbvalerian

 

Monday, December 05, 2005 2:41 PM

Re: Vegan Pets

 

 

Passing thru a back lane in Newcastle this morning we stopped to watch a

blackbird

getting the crumbs from a butty bag. He grabbed the butty bag with his beak

amd shook it

and then tossed it aside. He then ate the crumbs that he had shaken on the

ground. He

then picked up the bag again and repeated the process. We watched him do

this about 5

times but we did have to get home, so we started along the the lane towards

him,

unfortunately the lane was not wide enough to go round him. My friend shook

the rest of

the crumbs out the bag and replaced the bag where it was, in order not to

piss the

blackbird off.

Hopefully he wasn't too shy and returned for them. Does this count as " tool

use " or is it

just intelligence?

[Guest guest]

A butty is a sarnie to you ( sandwich) The Valley Vegan.................fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote: not sure wot a butty bag is...but, its general inteligence, not tool useif the bird had used a stick to open the bag er somesuch, that would be tool use...herbvalerian Dec 5, 2005 6:41 AM Subject: Re: Vegan PetsPassing thru a back lane in Newcastle this morning we stopped to watch a blackbird getting the crumbs from a butty bag. He grabbed the butty bag with his beak amd shook it and then tossed it aside. He then ate the crumbs that he had shaken on the ground. He then picked up the bag again and repeated the process. We watched him do this about 5

times but we did have to get home, so we started along the the lane towards him, unfortunately the lane was not wide enough to go round him. My friend shook the rest of the crumbs out the bag and replaced the bag where it was, in order not to piss the blackbird off.Hopefully he wasn't too shy and returned for them. Does this count as "tool use" or is it just intelligence? , Susan wrote:>> I love birds, too. I have feeders all around the> house and put things in my organic garden to help get> them through the winter. You just leave the seed heads> on when you do the fall cleanup. Crows are lovely, but> it's too bad they like to attack nests. I was lucky> to see a sparrow hawk in my own yard, he/she was in> the bushes after the sparrows when I stopped to see> what all the fuss was about. He/she flew out (empty> footed) and landed

nearby and let me get a good look> at him/her. It was awsome!> > Wee and Poo are important considerations when you have> any pet! Ha! I keep a box of tissues handy. The> books say you can train your bird to go on demand by> putting him on his cage every 15 minutes, but I> personally think that's training yourself and I don't> want to spend my bird time watching the clock instead> of playing with the bird. It's a small sacrifice and> easy cleanup. When in thier nest, baby birds will> usually back up to the edge of the nest and poo over> the side to avoid soiling the living quarters. My> bird fluffs up and backs up, so I know when a bomb is> about to hit! He tries to miss me but often fails. I> wish he had one of those vehicle back-up signals to> warn me! The only other thing about cockatiels (and> cockatoos) that I wasn't aware of when I got him was> that they

have a very fine feather powder they use> when they groom (in addition to the preen gland oil)> and when he fluffs out the powder poofs out just like> a powder puff or Pigpen on Charlie Brown. I bought an> air filter and it seems to help. On the other side,> think of all the stuff we expose our pets to! I think> it's a fair trade. When he is on my lap and I start> playing music conductor with my hands he starts> whistling tunes; when I put my hands down he stops;> when I start again, he starts again. Too cute! I've> made arrangements for one of my daughters to take my> bird upon my death should he outlive me (they live for> 17-20 years and my vet had one coming in until it was> 32!). If you can make arrangements for someone to> take over for you should your condition change, I> highly recommend getting a pet. Pets are very> healing. They alieve lonliness and they cause

the> release of healing/mood elevating endorphins in your> body and you have an opportunity to give a pet love> and care. Susan> > --- herbvalerian wrote:> > > Your bird sounds lovely. I would love to give a home> > to a rescued bird but I am not well > > myself and I worry I would not always be able to> > look after it properly. I love to watch wild > > birds, fortunately there are quite a lot where I> > live, I love the crow family in particular. I > > find that if I have the right attitude when I walk> > past them they don't fly off and just ignore > > me, I like that!> > How does it work when he wants a wee or poo? Does he> > drop it anywhere? Sorry if this > > sounds a stupid question but I have wondered about> > this one!> > > > ,

Susan> > wrote:> > >> > > My bird eats fruits and veggies now, but he didn't> > > like them when I first brought him home. He also> > gets> > > dehydrated veggies. My avian vet and the general> > > consensus seems to be to keep your bird on formula> > > food; however, when I read the ingredients I> > decided> > > against it. Not enough variety (mostly wheat and> > soy> > > with supplementation) and pleasure is supposed to> > be> > > part of eating. The reason for the formula food> > was> > > that some birds will only pick out the seed they> > like> > > and leave the rest and therefore, have an> > unblanced> > > diet. My bird eats a variety of seeds/grains. He> > is> > > out when I'm home (not when I'm gone

so he can't> > get> > > into something that will harm him--birds have> > drowned> > > in a glass half full of water, or when someone> > forgot> > > to put the toilet lid down--kinda like you> > childproof> > > for a two year old but they still find something> > to> > > get into). I haven't decided to get him a> > companion> > > yet, tiels are one of the few hook beaks that can> > do> > > o.k. alone as long as you are willing to be> > his/her> > > flock and spend time with him. And believe me, he> > > roosts on me so much I feel like a tree! > > Sometimes I> > > wonder how he manages to stay on when I'm cleaning> > > house. I still don't like looking at him caged.> > That> > > bothers me and because of that I'm not sure if I>

> would> > > get another bird after him . . . .but then again,> > he> > > goes in on his own and considers it home. susan > > > > > > --- herbvalerian wrote:> > > > > > > Is seed the best food for cockatiels? I read> > they> > > > should be fed on vegetables> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >> >> http://www.petpublishing.com/birdtimes/articles/tielfood.shtml> > > > > > > > There loads on the internet about feeding all> > soets> > > > of pets.> > > > > > > > My other half and I have also talked about> > animals> > > > as pets. We are opposed to the per > > > > industry but think its ok to keep a rescued> > animal> > > >

from a shelter as long as you treat it > > > > properly. We think a pet bird should have room> > to> > > > fly about and do its natural thing. Many > > > > birds are social animals so we would not agree> > with > > > > keeping one in a cage on its own.> > > > > > > > > > > > , Susan> > > > wrote:> > > > >> > > > > This is one of the issues I'm struggling with> > as a> > > > > vegan. I know that some vegans don't believe> > in> > > > > keeping animals as pets and I understand their> > > > > reasoning and tend to agree with some of it. > > I> > > > tend> > > > > to lean away from breeding and selling animals> >

as> > > > pets> > > > > when there are plenty that need to be rescued.> > I> > > > > rescued a cockatiel in July (they are no> > longer> > > > > exported from Australia and therefore, it it> > > > weren't> > > > > for a breeder somewhere I wouldn't have had a> > > > > cockatiel to resuce--ambiguity is my life--). > > > > Anyway,> > > > > I have been having a hard time finding bird> > seed> > > > (I> > > > > don't like the formula stuff) that is vegan. > > Most> > > > of> > > > > it has shell in it for calcium. I also, until> > my> > > > > divorce 15 years ago, have always had dogs.> > I'm> > > > > considering getting one but have had to think> >

> > about> > > > > the ethical/health issues for the dog if I get> > > > one. I> > > > > couldn't feed a dog it's natural diet if it> > > > included> > > > > meat, so I am thinking that I may not be able> > to> > > > have> > > > > a dog; alternatively, I could volunteer my> > time> > > > > working with dogs at the shelter. At least> > the> > > > bird> > > > > is vegan. I hope I can find a seed mix that> > is> > > > vegan.> > > > > If I mix it myself, it may not be> > nutritionally> > > > > balanced; however, I already give him what I> > eat> > > > > pretty often--whole grains, wild rice, semsame> > > > > seeds(calcium), pumpkin seeds (vitamin

A),> > etc.> > > > but> > > > > I'm also still using the commercial stuff. He> > > > does> > > > > look and act healthier. Oh well. Does anyone> > > > know> > > > > where one can get vegan pet food? Most of the> > > > sites I> > > > > found have dog/cat but not bird. Thanks. > > Susan> > > > > > > > > > --- sandi gordon > > > > > wrote:> > > > > > > > > > > we actually are were raising one of our dogs> > > > veg.> > > > > > since she had a food allergy,she has since> > been> > > > now> > > > > > able to eat other stuff but people thought> > we> > > > were> > > > > > crazy

saying we have a vegetarian dog,I was> > like> > > > at> > > > > > least I have someone in my family that eats> > like> > > > > > me(hahahah)> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________ > > > > > DSL – Something to write home about. > > > > > Just $16.99/mo. or less. > > > > > dsl.> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________ > > > DSL – Something to write home about. > > > Just $16.99/mo. or less. > > >

dsl.> > >> > > > > === message truncated ===> > > > > > Start your day with - Make it your home page! > http://www./r/hs>To send an email to -

[Guest guest]

Animals never cease to amaze me! I read a supposedly

true anecdote once about someone who watched a crow

pick up a piece of plastic and use it to slide down a

slide.

 

--- herbvalerian <herbvalerian wrote:

 

> Passing thru a back lane in Newcastle this morning

> we stopped to watch a blackbird

> getting the crumbs from a butty bag. He grabbed the

> butty bag with his beak amd shook it

> and then tossed it aside. He then ate the crumbs

> that he had shaken on the ground. He

> then picked up the bag again and repeated the

> process. We watched him do this about 5

> times but we did have to get home, so we started

> along the the lane towards him,

> unfortunately the lane was not wide enough to go

> round him. My friend shook the rest of

> the crumbs out the bag and replaced the bag where it

> was, in order not to piss the

> blackbird off.

> Hopefully he wasn't too shy and returned for them.

> Does this count as " tool use " or is it

> just intelligence?

>

> , Susan

> <oceanfest_2000> wrote:

> >

> > I love birds, too. I have feeders all around the

> > house and put things in my organic garden to help

> get

> > them through the winter. You just leave the seed

> heads

> > on when you do the fall cleanup. Crows are lovely,

> but

> > it's too bad they like to attack nests. I was

> lucky

> > to see a sparrow hawk in my own yard, he/she was

> in

> > the bushes after the sparrows when I stopped to

> see

> > what all the fuss was about. He/she flew out

> (empty

> > footed) and landed nearby and let me get a good

> look

> > at him/her. It was awsome!

> >

> > Wee and Poo are important considerations when you

> have

> > any pet! Ha! I keep a box of tissues handy. The

> > books say you can train your bird to go on demand

> by

> > putting him on his cage every 15 minutes, but I

> > personally think that's training yourself and I

> don't

> > want to spend my bird time watching the clock

> instead

> > of playing with the bird. It's a small sacrifice

> and

> > easy cleanup. When in thier nest, baby birds will

> > usually back up to the edge of the nest and poo

> over

> > the side to avoid soiling the living quarters. My

> > bird fluffs up and backs up, so I know when a bomb

> is

> > about to hit! He tries to miss me but often fails.

> I

> > wish he had one of those vehicle back-up signals

> to

> > warn me! The only other thing about cockatiels

> (and

> > cockatoos) that I wasn't aware of when I got him

> was

> > that they have a very fine feather powder they use

> > when they groom (in addition to the preen gland

> oil)

> > and when he fluffs out the powder poofs out just

> like

> > a powder puff or Pigpen on Charlie Brown. I

> bought an

> > air filter and it seems to help. On the other

> side,

> > think of all the stuff we expose our pets to! I

> think

> > it's a fair trade. When he is on my lap and I

> start

> > playing music conductor with my hands he starts

> > whistling tunes; when I put my hands down he

> stops;

> > when I start again, he starts again. Too cute!

> I've

> > made arrangements for one of my daughters to take

> my

> > bird upon my death should he outlive me (they live

> for

> > 17-20 years and my vet had one coming in until it

> was

> > 32!). If you can make arrangements for someone to

> > take over for you should your condition change, I

> > highly recommend getting a pet. Pets are very

> > healing. They alieve lonliness and they cause the

> > release of healing/mood elevating endorphins in

> your

> > body and you have an opportunity to give a pet

> love

> > and care. Susan

> >

> > --- herbvalerian <herbvalerian> wrote:

> >

> > > Your bird sounds lovely. I would love to give a

> home

> > > to a rescued bird but I am not well

> > > myself and I worry I would not always be able to

> > > look after it properly. I love to watch wild

> > > birds, fortunately there are quite a lot where I

> > > live, I love the crow family in particular. I

> > > find that if I have the right attitude when I

> walk

> > > past them they don't fly off and just ignore

> > > me, I like that!

> > > How does it work when he wants a wee or poo?

> Does he

> > > drop it anywhere? Sorry if this

> > > sounds a stupid question but I have wondered

> about

> > > this one!

> > >

> > > , Susan

> > > <oceanfest_2000> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > My bird eats fruits and veggies now, but he

> didn't

> > > > like them when I first brought him home. He

> also

> > > gets

> > > > dehydrated veggies. My avian vet and the

> general

> > > > consensus seems to be to keep your bird on

> formula

> > > > food; however, when I read the ingredients I

> > > decided

> > > > against it. Not enough variety (mostly wheat

> and

> > > soy

> > > > with supplementation) and pleasure is supposed

> to

> > > be

> > > > part of eating. The reason for the formula

> food

> > > was

> > > > that some birds will only pick out the seed

> they

> > > like

> > > > and leave the rest and therefore, have an

> > > unblanced

> > > > diet. My bird eats a variety of seeds/grains.

> He

> > > is

> > > > out when I'm home (not when I'm gone so he

> can't

> > > get

> > > > into something that will harm him--birds have

> > > drowned

> > > > in a glass half full of water, or when someone

> > > forgot

> > > > to put the toilet lid down--kinda like you

> > > childproof

> > > > for a two year old but they still find

> something

> > > to

> > > > get into). I haven't decided to get him a

> > > companion

> > > > yet, tiels are one of the few hook beaks that

> can

> > > do

> > > > o.k. alone as long as you are willing to be

> > > his/her

> > > > flock and spend time with him. And believe

> me, he

> > > > roosts on me so much I feel like a tree!

> > > Sometimes I

> > > > wonder how he manages to stay on when I'm

> cleaning

> > > > house. I still don't like looking at him

> caged.

> > > That

> > > > bothers me and because of that I'm not sure if

> I

> > > would

> > > > get another bird after him . . . .but then

> again,

> > > he

> > > > goes in on his own and considers it home.

> susan

> > > >

> > > > --- herbvalerian <herbvalerian> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > > Is seed the best food for cockatiels? I read

> > > they

> > > > > should be fed on vegetables

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

http://www.petpublishing.com/birdtimes/articles/tielfood.shtml

>

=== message truncated ===

 

 

 

 

 

Start your day with - Make it your home page!

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[Guest guest]

Wotudrinkin? The Valley Vegan.................. Sniffin` PawsPeter <metalscarab wrote: Hi HerbalSounds to me like it's human training :-)Now, on the subject of blackbirds... I'm convinced they come from adifferent realm of existence... when they fly out in front of you, they justappear from nowhere, and then completely disappear again without a trace - Ireckon they only briefly pass through our reality :-)BBPeter-"herbvalerian" Monday, December 05, 2005 2:41 PM Re: Vegan PetsPassing thru a back lane in Newcastle this morning we stopped to watch ablackbirdgetting the crumbs from a butty bag. He

grabbed the butty bag with his beakamd shook itand then tossed it aside. He then ate the crumbs that he had shaken on theground. Hethen picked up the bag again and repeated the process. We watched him dothis about 5times but we did have to get home, so we started along the the lane towardshim,unfortunately the lane was not wide enough to go round him. My friend shookthe rest ofthe crumbs out the bag and replaced the bag where it was, in order not topiss theblackbird off.Hopefully he wasn't too shy and returned for them. Does this count as "tooluse" or is itjust intelligence?

[Guest guest]

Speaking of which, I know where they go because I saw

some at the mall disappearing up under some cars.

When I investigeted, they were hopping around the

grills collecting the squashed bugs.

 

--- Peter <metalscarab wrote:

 

> Hi Herbal

>

> Sounds to me like it's human training :-)

>

> Now, on the subject of blackbirds... I'm convinced

> they come from a

> different realm of existence... when they fly out in

> front of you, they just

> appear from nowhere, and then completely disappear

> again without a trace - I

> reckon they only briefly pass through our reality

> :-)

>

> BB

> Peter

>

> -

> " herbvalerian " <herbvalerian

>

> Monday, December 05, 2005 2:41 PM

> Re: Vegan Pets

>

>

> Passing thru a back lane in Newcastle this morning

> we stopped to watch a

> blackbird

> getting the crumbs from a butty bag. He grabbed the

> butty bag with his beak

> amd shook it

> and then tossed it aside. He then ate the crumbs

> that he had shaken on the

> ground. He

> then picked up the bag again and repeated the

> process. We watched him do

> this about 5

> times but we did have to get home, so we started

> along the the lane towards

> him,

> unfortunately the lane was not wide enough to go

> round him. My friend shook

> the rest of

> the crumbs out the bag and replaced the bag where it

> was, in order not to

> piss the

> blackbird off.

> Hopefully he wasn't too shy and returned for them.

> Does this count as " tool

> use " or is it

> just intelligence?

>

>

>

>

>

 

 

 

 

 

Start your day with - Make it your home page!

http://www./r/hs

[Guest guest]

Hi Peter

 

> Wotudrinkin?

 

LOL - just water :-) Hey - there's a damn good reason I don't drink alcohol... think how weird it would get if I did :-)

 

BB

Peter

[Guest guest]

A place I used to go to regularly for breakfast, has an outside patio. There were some very large birds who liked to steal the splenda packets and sometimes the sugar (but never any of the pink packets!) and would eat them. They also took the jelly packets opened them and enjoyed.fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote: not sure wot a butty bag is...but, its general inteligence, not tool useif the bird had used a stick to open the bag er somesuch, that would be tool use...herbvalerian <herbvalerianDec 5, 2005 6:41 AM Subject: Re: Vegan PetsPassing thru a back lane in Newcastle this morning we stopped to watch a blackbird getting the crumbs from a butty bag. He grabbed the butty

bag with his beak amd shook it and then tossed it aside. He then ate the crumbs that he had shaken on the ground. He then picked up the bag again and repeated the process. We watched him do this about 5 times but we did have to get home, so we started along the the lane towards him, unfortunately the lane was not wide enough to go round him. My friend shook the rest of the crumbs out the bag and replaced the bag where it was, in order not to piss the blackbird off.Hopefully he wasn't too shy and returned for them. Does this count as "tool use" or is it just intelligence? , Susan <oceanfest_2000> wrote:>> I love birds, too. I have feeders all around the> house and put things in my organic garden to help get> them through the winter. You just leave the seed heads> on when you do the fall cleanup. Crows are lovely, but> it's too bad they like to attack

nests. I was lucky> to see a sparrow hawk in my own yard, he/she was in> the bushes after the sparrows when I stopped to see> what all the fuss was about. He/she flew out (empty> footed) and landed nearby and let me get a good look> at him/her. It was awsome!> > Wee and Poo are important considerations when you have> any pet! Ha! I keep a box of tissues handy. The> books say you can train your bird to go on demand by> putting him on his cage every 15 minutes, but I> personally think that's training yourself and I don't> want to spend my bird time watching the clock instead> of playing with the bird. It's a small sacrifice and> easy cleanup. When in thier nest, baby birds will> usually back up to the edge of the nest and poo over> the side to avoid soiling the living quarters. My> bird fluffs up and backs up, so I know

when a bomb is> about to hit! He tries to miss me but often fails. I> wish he had one of those vehicle back-up signals to> warn me! The only other thing about cockatiels (and> cockatoos) that I wasn't aware of when I got him was> that they have a very fine feather powder they use> when they groom (in addition to the preen gland oil)> and when he fluffs out the powder poofs out just like> a powder puff or Pigpen on Charlie Brown. I bought an> air filter and it seems to help. On the other side,> think of all the stuff we expose our pets to! I think> it's a fair trade. When he is on my lap and I start> playing music conductor with my hands he starts> whistling tunes; when I put my hands down he stops;> when I start again, he starts again. Too cute! I've> made arrangements for one of my daughters to take my> bird upon my death should

he outlive me (they live for> 17-20 years and my vet had one coming in until it was> 32!). If you can make arrangements for someone to> take over for you should your condition change, I> highly recommend getting a pet. Pets are very> healing. They alieve lonliness and they cause the> release of healing/mood elevating endorphins in your> body and you have an opportunity to give a pet love> and care. Susan> > --- herbvalerian <herbvalerian> wrote:> > > Your bird sounds lovely. I would love to give a home> > to a rescued bird but I am not well > > myself and I worry I would not always be able to> > look after it properly. I love to watch wild > > birds, fortunately there are quite a lot where I> > live, I love the crow family in particular. I > > find that if I have the right attitude when I walk>

> past them they don't fly off and just ignore > > me, I like that!> > How does it work when he wants a wee or poo? Does he> > drop it anywhere? Sorry if this > > sounds a stupid question but I have wondered about> > this one!> > > > , Susan> > <oceanfest_2000> wrote:> > >> > > My bird eats fruits and veggies now, but he didn't> > > like them when I first brought him home. He also> > gets> > > dehydrated veggies. My avian vet and the general> > > consensus seems to be to keep your bird on formula> > > food; however, when I read the ingredients I> > decided> > > against it. Not enough variety (mostly wheat and> > soy> > > with supplementation) and pleasure is supposed to> > be> > > part

of eating. The reason for the formula food> > was> > > that some birds will only pick out the seed they> > like> > > and leave the rest and therefore, have an> > unblanced> > > diet. My bird eats a variety of seeds/grains. He> > is> > > out when I'm home (not when I'm gone so he can't> > get> > > into something that will harm him--birds have> > drowned> > > in a glass half full of water, or when someone> > forgot> > > to put the toilet lid down--kinda like you> > childproof> > > for a two year old but they still find something> > to> > > get into). I haven't decided to get him a> > companion> > > yet, tiels are one of the few hook beaks that can> > do> > > o.k. alone as long as you are willing to be>

> his/her> > > flock and spend time with him. And believe me, he> > > roosts on me so much I feel like a tree! > > Sometimes I> > > wonder how he manages to stay on when I'm cleaning> > > house. I still don't like looking at him caged.> > That> > > bothers me and because of that I'm not sure if I> > would> > > get another bird after him . . . .but then again,> > he> > > goes in on his own and considers it home. susan > > > > > > --- herbvalerian <herbvalerian> wrote:> > > > > > > Is seed the best food for cockatiels? I read> > they> > > > should be fed on vegetables> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >> >> http://www.petpublishing.com/birdtimes/articles/tielfood.shtml> > > > > > > > There loads on the internet about feeding all> > soets> > > > of pets.> > > > > > > > My other half and I have also talked about> > animals> > > > as pets. We are opposed to the per > > > > industry but think its ok to keep a rescued> > animal> > > > from a shelter as long as you treat it > > > > properly. We think a pet bird should have room> > to> > > > fly about and do its natural thing. Many > > > > birds are social animals so we would not agree> > with > > > > keeping one in a cage on its own.> > > > > > > > > > > >

, Susan> > > > <oceanfest_2000> wrote:> > > > >> > > > > This is one of the issues I'm struggling with> > as a> > > > > vegan. I know that some vegans don't believe> > in> > > > > keeping animals as pets and I understand their> > > > > reasoning and tend to agree with some of it. > > I> > > > tend> > > > > to lean away from breeding and selling animals> > as> > > > pets> > > > > when there are plenty that need to be rescued.> > I> > > > > rescued a cockatiel in July (they are no> > longer> > > > > exported from Australia and therefore, it it> > > > weren't> > > > > for a breeder somewhere I wouldn't have had a> >

> > > cockatiel to resuce--ambiguity is my life--). > > > > Anyway,> > > > > I have been having a hard time finding bird> > seed> > > > (I> > > > > don't like the formula stuff) that is vegan. > > Most> > > > of> > > > > it has shell in it for calcium. I also, until> > my> > > > > divorce 15 years ago, have always had dogs.> > I'm> > > > > considering getting one but have had to think> > > > about> > > > > the ethical/health issues for the dog if I get> > > > one. I> > > > > couldn't feed a dog it's natural diet if it> > > > included> > > > > meat, so I am thinking that I may not be able> > to> > > > have> > > > > a dog; alternatively,

I could volunteer my> > time> > > > > working with dogs at the shelter. At least> > the> > > > bird> > > > > is vegan. I hope I can find a seed mix that> > is> > > > vegan.> > > > > If I mix it myself, it may not be> > nutritionally> > > > > balanced; however, I already give him what I> > eat> > > > > pretty often--whole grains, wild rice, semsame> > > > > seeds(calcium), pumpkin seeds (vitamin A),> > etc.> > > > but> > > > > I'm also still using the commercial stuff. He> > > > does> > > > > look and act healthier. Oh well. Does anyone> > > > know> > > > > where one can get vegan pet food? Most of the> > > > sites I>

> > > > found have dog/cat but not bird. Thanks. > > Susan> > > > > > > > > > --- sandi gordon <sandisweeti13132001>> > > > > wrote:> > > > > > > > > > > we actually are were raising one of our dogs> > > > veg.> > > > > > since she had a food allergy,she has since> > been> > > > now> > > > > > able to eat other stuff but people thought> > we> > > > were> > > > > > crazy saying we have a vegetarian dog,I was> > like> > > > at> > > > > > least I have someone in my family that eats> > like> > > > > > me(hahahah)> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > ________ > > > > > DSL – Something to write home about. > > > > > Just $16.99/mo. or less. > > > > > dsl.> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________ > > > DSL – Something to write home about. > > > Just $16.99/mo. or less. > > > dsl.> > >> > > > > === message truncated ===> > > > >

> Start your day with - Make it your home page! > http://www./r/hs>To send an email to -

[Guest guest]

Definitely true!

 

BB

Jo

 

-

" Peter " <metalscarab

 

Monday, December 05, 2005 6:32 PM

Re: Re: Vegan Pets

 

 

> Hi Herbal

>

> Sounds to me like it's human training :-)

>

> Now, on the subject of blackbirds... I'm convinced they come from a

> different realm of existence... when they fly out in front of you, they

just

> appear from nowhere, and then completely disappear again without a trace -

I

> reckon they only briefly pass through our reality :-)

>

> BB

> Peter

[Guest guest]

LOL - I think crows are very clever. We watched some crows surround a poor

old fox who had caught a vole or similar small animal. I'm not sure if they

got his food, but I felt sorry for the fox.

 

Jo

 

-

" Susan " <oceanfest_2000

 

Monday, December 05, 2005 7:23 PM

Re: Re: Vegan Pets

 

 

> Animals never cease to amaze me! I read a supposedly

> true anecdote once about someone who watched a crow

> pick up a piece of plastic and use it to slide down a

> slide.

[Guest guest]

Oh crikey - doesn't bear thinking about :-)

 

BBJo

 

-

Peter

Monday, December 05, 2005 8:05 PM

Re: Re: Vegan Pets

 

Hi Peter

 

> Wotudrinkin?

 

LOL - just water :-) Hey - there's a damn good reason I don't drink alcohol... think how weird it would get if I did :-)

 

BB

Peter