Guest guest Posted December 4, 2005 Report Share Posted December 4, 2005 Yep, people do have different values. Does that make it right? Hitler valued the extermination of all Jews that he couldn't get rid of. Stalin had a different set of values than most other people, but hey, they were just different. How about Saddam? Genghis Khan? You can look around today and find so many examples of what I am talking about. But, what you are saying here is that one just has to accept that everyone has different values and so be it. After all one can't be too fussy about others' behavior or one might be without friends. Did you get the idea that has come down through the ages that if you don't stand up for what you believe in, if you don't stand up against wrong, if you say nothing that it is the same as condoning it? You become a participant when you do nothing. Is this what you really want or are saying? I would saw that you aren't too fussy at all. linda "Whatever you do will be insignificant and it is very important that you do it."Mohandas Gandhi linda's Growing Stitchery Projects: womyn47 - jo Maybe I am too fussy because there are lots of types of behaviour I don'tlike, so if I removed myself from the company of these people I probablywouldn't mix with anyone except Colin. On the whole it is easier to realisethat people all have different values, and not everyone agrees with you, andthen decide whether you like the people despit their 'faults'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 4, 2005 Report Share Posted December 4, 2005 You seem to have all guns firing! and to be out for an argument. So you can make what you will of what I have said, but please try not to be so aggressive here. Jo , " linda " <lindai81@c...> wrote: > > Yep, people do have different values. Does that make it right? Hitler valued the extermination of all Jews that he couldn't get rid of. Stalin had a different set of values than most other people, but hey, they were just different. How about Saddam? Genghis Khan? You can look around today and find so many examples of what I am talking about. But, what you are saying here is that one just has to accept that everyone has different values and so be it. After all one can't be too fussy about others' behavior or one might be without friends. Did you get the idea that has come down through the ages that if you don't stand up for what you believe in, if you don't stand up against wrong, if you say nothing that it is the same as condoning it? You become a participant when you do nothing. Is this what you really want or are saying? I would saw that you aren't too fussy at all. > linda > " Whatever you do will be insignificant and it is very important that you do it. " > Mohandas Gandhi > > linda's Growing Stitchery Projects: womyn47 > - > jo > > Maybe I am too fussy because there are lots of types of behaviour I don't > like, so if I removed myself from the company of these people I probably > wouldn't mix with anyone except Colin. On the whole it is easier to realise > that people all have different values, and not everyone agrees with you, and > then decide whether you like the people despit their 'faults'. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 4, 2005 Report Share Posted December 4, 2005 Hi Linda > Yep, people do have different values. Does that make it right? Hitler valued the extermination of all > Jews that he couldn't get rid of. Stalin had a different set of values than most other people, but hey, > they were just different. How about Saddam? Genghis Khan? But a lot of this *is* subjective. Saddam Hussein is generally considered one of the most evil men ever in the West (and with fairly good reason), yet recently Winston Churchill, who comitted far more atrocities in Iraq than Hussein ever did, was voted the most popular British person of the last century! And, of course, Hitler consumed very little meat or dairy - he was certainly closer to "vegan" than many people we view as heroes - does that make everything he did OK? BB Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 4, 2005 Report Share Posted December 4, 2005 I was just reading about Hitler and the vegetarian business. It said that he wasn't really a vegetarian that it was a propaganda thing to make people think he was somewhat of a saint... I don't think that we could or would say that defining Hitler as committing "evil" actions was a subjective thing. Nor Pol Pot. Nor Stalin. Nor Khan. Extermination of sentient beings is always wrong no matter how you rationalize it. The end never justifies the means. I hate using the term "evil" since our illustrious president has made it a ridiculous term with his use on anyone and anything that doesn't agree with him. It also has a different connotation to different people. But I am at a loss as what word to use. We may come to understand and accept why some one did something that we would term "evil" but that doesn't change the fact that the act itself was evil. I think that people can do something that has negative consequences without the person having meant it to be so. But that is true of everything that we do no matter what our intentions were. I can't respond about Churchill since as the typical ugly American I know very little about him except what we were taught in school and that was primarily that he was greatly admired about WWII. I have heard other things about him, but have never researched it so don't know what was true or not. I do believe that we all are a mixture of good and bad. Even the "bad" go home, smile and jostle their children on their knees. Even Stalin probably had people who loved him or Hitler, but of that I am not sure. It would be sad to think that they never experienced love though, and maybe that is why they became who they were...perhaps that is the good to come out of it...all people need love. "Whatever you do will be insignificant and it is very important that you do it."Mohandas Gandhi Peter But a lot of this *is* subjective. Saddam Hussein is generally considered one of the most evil men ever in the West (and with fairly good reason), yet recently Winston Churchill, who comitted far more atrocities in Iraq than Hussein ever did, was voted the most popular British person of the last century! And, of course, Hitler consumed very little meat or dairy - he was certainly closer to "vegan" than many people we view as heroes - does that make everything he did OK? BB Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 5, 2005 Report Share Posted December 5, 2005 an aside the whole thing of hitler being veggie is a myth... it ws a PR/propagandha thing....it went into the whole myth building of his larger then life characterization he was a big ol meat eater....fer wotever its worth Hi Linda > Yep, people do have different values. Does that make it right? Hitler valued the extermination of all > Jews that he couldn't get rid of. Stalin had a different set of values than most other people, but hey, > they were just different. How about Saddam? Genghis Khan? But a lot of this *is* subjective. Saddam Hussein is generally considered one of the most evil men ever in the West (and with fairly good reason), yet recently Winston Churchill, who comitted far more atrocities in Iraq than Hussein ever did, was voted the most popular British person of the last century! And, of course, Hitler consumed very little meat or dairy - he was certainly closer to "vegan" than many people we view as heroes - does that make everything he did OK? BB Peter To send an email to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 5, 2005 Report Share Posted December 5, 2005 Hi Fraggle > an aside > the whole thing of hitler being veggie is a myth... > it ws a PR/propagandha thing....it went into the whole myth building of his larger then life characterization > he was a big ol meat eater....fer wotever its worth It's not my era of history, but the book I read didn't quite portray it that way. After all, in the 1940s, being vegetarian was completely weird... particularly in the land of wurst! If he wanted to be more "heroic", then he'd have been more likely to have highlighted his meat eating habits. What I read stated that people had assumed he was vegetarian because he just didn't like eating much, so when he did eat, he tended to just "easy" stuff - i.e. salad! From what I understood, his diet was about 95% vegetable matter, and 5% meat - not because of any ethical reasons, just 'cos he was lazy! BB Peter Hi Linda > Yep, people do have different values. Does that make it right? Hitler valued the extermination of all > Jews that he couldn't get rid of. Stalin had a different set of values than most other people, but hey, > they were just different. How about Saddam? Genghis Khan? But a lot of this *is* subjective. Saddam Hussein is generally considered one of the most evil men ever in the West (and with fairly good reason), yet recently Winston Churchill, who comitted far more atrocities in Iraq than Hussein ever did, was voted the most popular British person of the last century! And, of course, Hitler consumed very little meat or dairy - he was certainly closer to "vegan" than many people we view as heroes - does that make everything he did OK? BB Peter To send an email to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 5, 2005 Report Share Posted December 5, 2005 Yes, but is it true he only had one bollock? The Valley Vegan................. Every nation's leader says that our side is rightEvery nation's leader says the time has come to fightBut they use the common people to settle their scoresIT'S TIME THAT WE REFUSE TO FIGHT IN ANY OF THEIR WARS!fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote: an aside the whole thing of hitler being veggie is a myth... it ws a PR/propagandha thing....it went into the whole myth building of his larger then life characterization he was a big ol meat eater....fer wotever its worth Hi Linda > Yep, people do have different values. Does that make it right? Hitler valued the extermination of all > Jews that he couldn't get rid of. Stalin had a different set of values than most other people, but hey, > they were just different. How about Saddam? Genghis Khan? But a lot of this *is* subjective. Saddam Hussein is generally considered one of the most evil men ever in the West (and with fairly good reason), yet recently Winston Churchill, who comitted far more atrocities in Iraq than Hussein ever did, was voted the most popular British person of the last century! And, of course, Hitler consumed very little meat or dairy - he was certainly closer to "vegan" than many people we view as heroes - does that make everything he did OK? BB Peter To send an email to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 5, 2005 Report Share Posted December 5, 2005 it had to do with ascetisism...he had to be seen as pure and above it all.... the superior uber human.... apparantly hitler had been told he needed to eat more veggies..because..he was flatulent... i kid you not but..he wasn't vegetarian it was a big PR spin by goebbels and company he actually loved sausages and cured meats...there was a series of photos of him i saw long time ago..him happily munchin on wurst and such in some hall his fave dish supposedly was stuffed pigeon.... fraggle Peter Dec 5, 2005 10:38 AM Re: Condoning behavior Hi Fraggle > an aside > the whole thing of hitler being veggie is a myth... > it ws a PR/propagandha thing....it went into the whole myth building of his larger then life characterization > he was a big ol meat eater....fer wotever its worth It's not my era of history, but the book I read didn't quite portray it that way. After all, in the 1940s, being vegetarian was completely weird... particularly in the land of wurst! If he wanted to be more "heroic", then he'd have been more likely to have highlighted his meat eating habits. What I read stated that people had assumed he was vegetarian because he just didn't like eating much, so when he did eat, he tended to just "easy" stuff - i.e. salad! From what I understood, his diet was about 95% vegetable matter, and 5% meat - not because of any ethical reasons, just 'cos he was lazy! BB Peter Hi Linda > Yep, people do have different values. Does that make it right? Hitler valued the extermination of all > Jews that he couldn't get rid of. Stalin had a different set of values than most other people, but hey, > they were just different. How about Saddam? Genghis Khan? But a lot of this *is* subjective. Saddam Hussein is generally considered one of the most evil men ever in the West (and with fairly good reason), yet recently Winston Churchill, who comitted far more atrocities in Iraq than Hussein ever did, was voted the most popular British person of the last century! And, of course, Hitler consumed very little meat or dairy - he was certainly closer to "vegan" than many people we view as heroes - does that make everything he did OK? BB Peter To send an email to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 5, 2005 Report Share Posted December 5, 2005 http://www.slate.com/id/2096259/ An interesting article about same. --- fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote: an aside the whole thing of hitler being veggie is a myth... it ws a PR/propagandha thing....it went into the whole myth building of his larger then life characterization he was a big ol meat eater....fer wotever its worth Hi Linda > Yep, people do have different values. Does that make it right? Hitler valued the extermination of all > Jews that he couldn't get rid of. Stalin had a different set of values than most other people, but hey, > they were just different. How about Saddam? Genghis Khan? But a lot of this *is* subjective. Saddam Hussein is generally considered one of the most evil men ever in the West (and with fairly good reason), yet recently Winston Churchill, who comitted far more atrocities in Iraq than Hussein ever did, was voted the most popular British person of the last century! And, of course, Hitler consumed very little meat or dairy - he was certainly closer to " vegan " than many people we view as heroes - does that make everything he did OK? BB Peter To send an email to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 5, 2005 Report Share Posted December 5, 2005 Hi Linda > I was just reading about Hitler and the vegetarian business. It said that he wasn't really a vegetarian > that it was a propaganda thing to make people think he was somewhat of a saint... In 1940s Germany, vegetarians were viewed as nutters, not as saints! BB Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 5, 2005 Report Share Posted December 5, 2005 hmm not really it wasn't until after the nazi's came to power that it got real bad to be a veggie in germany... heck..they held a world vegetarian congress in berlin sometime in the early 30's as fer nutter status...in todays PR world, they taught bush as a strong leader who listens to voices and goes his own way, no matter wot...this is seen by many here as "wow, wot a great guy!"... it was part of the nazi propagandha machine to push hitler as above the normal everyman... he was suppose to be akin to a ascetic....he did what others couldn't....he was pure, he didn't drink, or womanize or wotever except he loved to drink..and then there were his mistresses its called myth building Peter Dec 5, 2005 2:45 PM Re: Condoning behavior Hi Linda > I was just reading about Hitler and the vegetarian business. It said that he wasn't really a vegetarian > that it was a propaganda thing to make people think he was somewhat of a saint... In 1940s Germany, vegetarians were viewed as nutters, not as saints! BB Peter To send an email to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 5, 2005 Report Share Posted December 5, 2005 Hi Fraggle This really doesn't sit right with what I know of Hitler and propaganda. Hitler considered himself to be something akin to the Tuetonic Knights. Sure, there was a certain "saintly" aspect to his propaganda, but he was also portrayed as being a strong, powerful leader - "Hercules" like. While we may know that it is possible to do that on a vegetarian diet, Germans in the 1940s would have laughed at the idea. It would be a source of ridicule for a heroic figure in that culture, not one that would have gained him brownie points. BB Peter - fraggle Monday, December 05, 2005 11:29 PM Re: Condoning behavior hmm not really it wasn't until after the nazi's came to power that it got real bad to be a veggie in germany... heck..they held a world vegetarian congress in berlin sometime in the early 30's as fer nutter status...in todays PR world, they taught bush as a strong leader who listens to voices and goes his own way, no matter wot...this is seen by many here as "wow, wot a great guy!"... it was part of the nazi propagandha machine to push hitler as above the normal everyman... he was suppose to be akin to a ascetic....he did what others couldn't....he was pure, he didn't drink, or womanize or wotever except he loved to drink..and then there were his mistresses its called myth building Peter Dec 5, 2005 2:45 PM Re: Condoning behavior Hi Linda > I was just reading about Hitler and the vegetarian business. It said that he wasn't really a vegetarian > that it was a propaganda thing to make people think he was somewhat of a saint... In 1940s Germany, vegetarians were viewed as nutters, not as saints! BB Peter To send an email to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 6, 2005 Report Share Posted December 6, 2005 Hi Peter They still are, and not only in Germany. I was chatting with a friend at work the other day and he mentioned someone needing a vegetarian lunch, and I said I thought this chap was vegan, and the chap I was talking to grinned and said 'no, he's only part mad, not completely'. He was kidding and I took it as a joke. Jo , " Peter " <metalscarab@g...> wrote: > > Hi Linda > > > I was just reading about Hitler and the vegetarian business. It said that he wasn't really a vegetarian > > that it was a propaganda thing to make people think he was somewhat of a saint... > > In 1940s Germany, vegetarians were viewed as nutters, not as saints! > > BB > Peter > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 6, 2005 Report Share Posted December 6, 2005 I can't help but disagree. From everything I have read it was most unusual to be a vegetarian in Germany, and still is in comparison with other countries. When I was a kid I knew some German people (they had come to England to get away from the nazis). They delighted in growing their own veggies, and said that meat and cheese were the big things to eat in Germany and not too many vegetables. I remember my other neighbour, who I think was vegetarian, asking about vegetarians, and the German family had never even heard that there were such people. Jo Fragle wrote:hmm not really it wasn't until after the nazi's came to power that it got real bad to be a veggie in germany... heck..they held a world vegetarian congress in berlin sometime in the early 30's as fer nutter status...in todays PR world, they taught bush as a strong leader who listens to voices and goes his own way, no matter wot...this is seen by many here as " wow, wot a great guy! " ... it was part of the nazi propagandha machine to push hitler as above the normal everyman... he was suppose to be akin to a ascetic....he did what others couldn't....he was pure, he didn't drink, or womanize or wotever except he loved to drink..and then there were his mistresses its called myth building Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 6, 2005 Report Share Posted December 6, 2005 it might have been unusual..but it wasn't that insane in many parts of germany in the early part of the 20th century to be veg there was a growing movement.. sure, germans were all meat and such..but there was still a movement there were a number of vegetarian societies and groups that were growing..but they were based in the cities and once the nazi's came to power, that was the end of that.... heartwerk <jo.heartwork Dec 5, 2005 11:56 PM Re: Condoning behavior I can't help but disagree. From everything I have read it was most unusual to be a vegetarian in Germany, and still is in comparison with other countries. When I was a kid I knew some German people (they had come to England to get away from the nazis). They delighted in growing their own veggies, and said that meat and cheese were the big things to eat in Germany and not too many vegetables. I remember my other neighbour, who I think was vegetarian, asking about vegetarians, and the German family had never even heard that there were such people. Jo Fragle wrote:hmm not really it wasn't until after the nazi's came to power that it got real bad to be a veggie in germany... heck..they held a world vegetarian congress in berlin sometime in the early 30's as fer nutter status...in todays PR world, they taught bush as a strong leader who listens to voices and goes his own way, no matter wot...this is seen by many here as " wow, wot a great guy! " ... it was part of the nazi propagandha machine to push hitler as above the normal everyman... he was suppose to be akin to a ascetic....he did what others couldn't....he was pure, he didn't drink, or womanize or wotever except he loved to drink..and then there were his mistresses its called myth building To send an email to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 6, 2005 Report Share Posted December 6, 2005 It's always been a challenge in our family to accomidate everyone's eating habits. Not too long ago, we were trying to work out a meal and my daughter commented that it was really hard before, but now I've taken it to a whole new level! I'm glad they often join me on that level now (except DH). heartwerk <jo.heartwork wrote: Hi PeterThey still are, and not only in Germany. I was chatting with a friend at work the other day and he mentioned someone needing a vegetarian lunch, and I said I thought this chap was vegan, and the chap I was talking to grinned and said 'no, he's only part mad, not completely'. He was kidding and I took it as a joke.Jo , "Peter" <metalscarab@g...> wrote:>> Hi Linda> > > I was just reading about Hitler and the vegetarian business. It said that he wasn't really a vegetarian> > that it was a propaganda thing to make people think he was somewhat of a saint...> > In 1940s Germany, vegetarians were viewed as nutters, not as saints!> > BB> Peter> Personals Single? There's someone we'd like you to meet. Lots of someones, actually. Try Personals Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 6, 2005 Report Share Posted December 6, 2005 Just because there were societies doesn't mean the average person had heard of the movement. Jo - " fraggle " <EBbrewpunx Tuesday, December 06, 2005 4:53 PM Re: Re: Condoning behavior > it might have been unusual..but it wasn't that insane in many parts of germany in the early part of the 20th century to be veg > there was a growing movement.. > sure, germans were all meat and such..but there was still a movement > there were a number of vegetarian societies and groups that were growing..but they were based in the cities > and once the nazi's came to power, that was the end of that.... > > > heartwerk <jo.heartwork > Dec 5, 2005 11:56 PM > > Re: Condoning behavior > > I can't help but disagree. From everything I have read it was most > unusual to be a vegetarian in Germany, and still is in comparison > with other countries. > > When I was a kid I knew some German people (they had come to England > to get away from the nazis). They delighted in growing their own > veggies, and said that meat and cheese were the big things to eat in > Germany and not too many vegetables. I remember my other neighbour, > who I think was vegetarian, asking about vegetarians, and the German > family had never even heard that there were such people. > > Jo > > > Fragle wrote:hmm > not really > it wasn't until after the nazi's came to power that it got real bad > to be a veggie in germany... > heck..they held a world vegetarian congress in berlin sometime in the > early 30's > > as fer nutter status...in todays PR world, they taught bush as a > strong leader who listens to voices and goes his own way, no matter > wot...this is seen by many here as " wow, wot a great guy! " ... > > it was part of the nazi propagandha machine to push hitler as above > the normal everyman... > he was suppose to be akin to a ascetic....he did what others > couldn't....he was pure, he didn't drink, or womanize or wotever > except he loved to drink..and then there were his mistresses > its called myth building > To send an email to - > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 6, 2005 Report Share Posted December 6, 2005 That's good. Last time my cousins visited me, for my brother's funeral, I made all vegan food. They eat it all. I think there was one cousin who didn't like the nut pate, but that was all. They are all big meat and cheese eaters, in fact one of them was a pig farmer. Jo - Jonnie Hellens Tuesday, December 06, 2005 5:25 PM Re: Re: Condoning behavior It's always been a challenge in our family to accomidate everyone's eating habits. Not too long ago, we were trying to work out a meal and my daughter commented that it was really hard before, but now I've taken it to a whole new level! I'm glad they often join me on that level now (except DH). heartwerk <jo.heartwork wrote: Hi PeterThey still are, and not only in Germany. I was chatting with a friend at work the other day and he mentioned someone needing a vegetarian lunch, and I said I thought this chap was vegan, and the chap I was talking to grinned and said 'no, he's only part mad, not completely'. He was kidding and I took it as a joke.Jo , "Peter" <metalscarab@g...> wrote:>> Hi Linda> > > I was just reading about Hitler and the vegetarian business. It said that he wasn't really a vegetarian> > that it was a propaganda thing to make people think he was somewhat of a saint...> > In 1940s Germany, vegetarians were viewed as nutters, not as saints!> > BB> Peter> PersonalsSingle? There's someone we'd like you to meet.Lots of someones, actually. Try Personals Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 6, 2005 Report Share Posted December 6, 2005 I agree with you Peter. Even now people expect vegetarians to be weak, and make fun of them. It is not something that would have been part of propaganda. BBJo - Peter Monday, December 05, 2005 11:44 PM Re: Condoning behavior Hi Fraggle This really doesn't sit right with what I know of Hitler and propaganda. Hitler considered himself to be something akin to the Tuetonic Knights. Sure, there was a certain "saintly" aspect to his propaganda, but he was also portrayed as being a strong, powerful leader - "Hercules" like. While we may know that it is possible to do that on a vegetarian diet, Germans in the 1940s would have laughed at the idea. It would be a source of ridicule for a heroic figure in that culture, not one that would have gained him brownie points. BB Peter - fraggle Monday, December 05, 2005 11:29 PM Re: Condoning behavior hmm not really it wasn't until after the nazi's came to power that it got real bad to be a veggie in germany... heck..they held a world vegetarian congress in berlin sometime in the early 30's as fer nutter status...in todays PR world, they taught bush as a strong leader who listens to voices and goes his own way, no matter wot...this is seen by many here as "wow, wot a great guy!"... it was part of the nazi propagandha machine to push hitler as above the normal everyman... he was suppose to be akin to a ascetic....he did what others couldn't....he was pure, he didn't drink, or womanize or wotever except he loved to drink..and then there were his mistresses its called myth building Peter Dec 5, 2005 2:45 PM Re: Condoning behavior Hi Linda > I was just reading about Hitler and the vegetarian business. It said that he wasn't really a vegetarian > that it was a propaganda thing to make people think he was somewhat of a saint... In 1940s Germany, vegetarians were viewed as nutters, not as saints! BB Peter To send an email to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 6, 2005 Report Share Posted December 6, 2005 u can say the same about today then.... jo <jo.heartwork Dec 6, 2005 10:36 AM Re: Re: Condoning behavior Just because there were societies doesn't mean the average person had heard of the movement. Jo - " fraggle " <EBbrewpunx Tuesday, December 06, 2005 4:53 PM Re: Re: Condoning behavior > it might have been unusual..but it wasn't that insane in many parts of germany in the early part of the 20th century to be veg > there was a growing movement.. > sure, germans were all meat and such..but there was still a movement > there were a number of vegetarian societies and groups that were growing..but they were based in the cities > and once the nazi's came to power, that was the end of that.... > > > heartwerk <jo.heartwork > Dec 5, 2005 11:56 PM > > Re: Condoning behavior > > I can't help but disagree. From everything I have read it was most > unusual to be a vegetarian in Germany, and still is in comparison > with other countries. > > When I was a kid I knew some German people (they had come to England > to get away from the nazis). They delighted in growing their own > veggies, and said that meat and cheese were the big things to eat in > Germany and not too many vegetables. I remember my other neighbour, > who I think was vegetarian, asking about vegetarians, and the German > family had never even heard that there were such people. > > Jo > > > Fragle wrote:hmm > not really > it wasn't until after the nazi's came to power that it got real bad > to be a veggie in germany... > heck..they held a world vegetarian congress in berlin sometime in the > early 30's > > as fer nutter status...in todays PR world, they taught bush as a > strong leader who listens to voices and goes his own way, no matter > wot...this is seen by many here as " wow, wot a great guy! " ... > > it was part of the nazi propagandha machine to push hitler as above > the normal everyman... > he was suppose to be akin to a ascetic....he did what others > couldn't....he was pure, he didn't drink, or womanize or wotever > except he loved to drink..and then there were his mistresses > its called myth building > To send an email to - > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 6, 2005 Report Share Posted December 6, 2005 Definitely. Jo - " fraggle " <EBbrewpunx Tuesday, December 06, 2005 7:35 PM Re: Re: Condoning behavior > u can say the same about today then.... > > > jo <jo.heartwork > Dec 6, 2005 10:36 AM > > Re: Re: Condoning behavior > > Just because there were societies doesn't mean the average person had heard > of the movement. > > Jo > > - > " fraggle " <EBbrewpunx > > Tuesday, December 06, 2005 4:53 PM > Re: Re: Condoning behavior > > > > it might have been unusual..but it wasn't that insane in many parts of > germany in the early part of the 20th century to be veg > > there was a growing movement.. > > sure, germans were all meat and such..but there was still a movement > > there were a number of vegetarian societies and groups that were > growing..but they were based in the cities > > and once the nazi's came to power, that was the end of that.... > > > > > > heartwerk <jo.heartwork > > Dec 5, 2005 11:56 PM > > > > Re: Condoning behavior > > > > I can't help but disagree. From everything I have read it was most > > unusual to be a vegetarian in Germany, and still is in comparison > > with other countries. > > > > When I was a kid I knew some German people (they had come to England > > to get away from the nazis). They delighted in growing their own > > veggies, and said that meat and cheese were the big things to eat in > > Germany and not too many vegetables. I remember my other neighbour, > > who I think was vegetarian, asking about vegetarians, and the German > > family had never even heard that there were such people. > > > > Jo > > > > > > Fragle wrote:hmm > > not really > > it wasn't until after the nazi's came to power that it got real bad > > to be a veggie in germany... > > heck..they held a world vegetarian congress in berlin sometime in the > > early 30's > > > > as fer nutter status...in todays PR world, they taught bush as a > > strong leader who listens to voices and goes his own way, no matter > > wot...this is seen by many here as " wow, wot a great guy! " ... > > > > it was part of the nazi propagandha machine to push hitler as above > > the normal everyman... > > he was suppose to be akin to a ascetic....he did what others > > couldn't....he was pure, he didn't drink, or womanize or wotever > > except he loved to drink..and then there were his mistresses > > its called myth building > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To send an email to - > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 7, 2005 Report Share Posted December 7, 2005 Hi Linda, You are very familiar to me. Do we know each other from elsewhere? Nikki , " linda " <lindai81@c...> wrote: > > Yep, people do have different values. Does that make it right? Hitler valued the extermination of all Jews that he couldn't get rid of. Stalin had a different set of values than most other people, but hey, they were just different. How about Saddam? Genghis Khan? You can look around today and find so many examples of what I am talking about. But, what you are saying here is that one just has to accept that everyone has different values and so be it. After all one can't be too fussy about others' behavior or one might be without friends. Did you get the idea that has come down through the ages that if you don't stand up for what you believe in, if you don't stand up against wrong, if you say nothing that it is the same as condoning it? You become a participant when you do nothing. Is this what you really want or are saying? I would saw that you aren't too fussy at all. > linda > " Whatever you do will be insignificant and it is very important that you do it. " > Mohandas Gandhi > > linda's Growing Stitchery Projects: womyn47 > - > jo > > Maybe I am too fussy because there are lots of types of behaviour I don't > like, so if I removed myself from the company of these people I probably > wouldn't mix with anyone except Colin. On the whole it is easier to realise > that people all have different values, and not everyone agrees with you, and > then decide whether you like the people despit their 'faults'. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 7, 2005 Report Share Posted December 7, 2005 Hi Nikki/Linda I felt that too, but I don't know where it would be from. This is the only vegan list I am on. BB Jo - " earthstrm " <earthstorm Wednesday, December 07, 2005 2:29 PM Re: Condoning behavior > Hi Linda, > > You are very familiar to me. Do we know each other from elsewhere? > > Nikki Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 8, 2005 Report Share Posted December 8, 2005 Hi Jo and all, I shall try to remember to ask my Gramma on this when next we talk. I can say that alot of Germans ate vegetables before and during the war because meat was too expensive and hard to come by. BB Nikki , " heartwerk " <jo.heartwork@g...> wrote: > > I can't help but disagree. From everything I have read it was most > unusual to be a vegetarian in Germany, and still is in comparison > with other countries. > > When I was a kid I knew some German people (they had come to England > to get away from the nazis). They delighted in growing their own > veggies, and said that meat and cheese were the big things to eat in > Germany and not too many vegetables. I remember my other neighbour, > who I think was vegetarian, asking about vegetarians, and the German > family had never even heard that there were such people. > > Jo > > > Fragle wrote:hmm > not really > it wasn't until after the nazi's came to power that it got real bad > to be a veggie in germany... > heck..they held a world vegetarian congress in berlin sometime in the > early 30's > > as fer nutter status...in todays PR world, they taught bush as a > strong leader who listens to voices and goes his own way, no matter > wot...this is seen by many here as " wow, wot a great guy! " ... > > it was part of the nazi propagandha machine to push hitler as above > the normal everyman... > he was suppose to be akin to a ascetic....he did what others > couldn't....he was pure, he didn't drink, or womanize or wotever > except he loved to drink..and then there were his mistresses > its called myth building > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 8, 2005 Report Share Posted December 8, 2005 earthstrm <earthstorm Dec 8, 2005 4:22 AM Re: Condoning behavior Hi Jo and all, I shall try to remember to ask my Gramma on this when next we talk. I can say that alot of Germans ate vegetables before and during the war because meat was too expensive and hard to come by. BB Nikki , " heartwerk " <jo.heartwork@g...> wrote: > > I can't help but disagree. From everything I have read it was most > unusual to be a vegetarian in Germany, and still is in comparison > with other countries. > > When I was a kid I knew some German people (they had come to England > to get away from the nazis). They delighted in growing their own > veggies, and said that meat and cheese were the big things to eat in > Germany and not too many vegetables. I remember my other neighbour, > who I think was vegetarian, asking about vegetarians, and the German > family had never even heard that there were such people. > > Jo > > > Fragle wrote:hmm > not really > it wasn't until after the nazi's came to power that it got real bad > to be a veggie in germany... > heck..they held a world vegetarian congress in berlin sometime in the > early 30's > > as fer nutter status...in todays PR world, they taught bush as a > strong leader who listens to voices and goes his own way, no matter > wot...this is seen by many here as " wow, wot a great guy! " ... > > it was part of the nazi propagandha machine to push hitler as above > the normal everyman... > he was suppose to be akin to a ascetic....he did what others > couldn't....he was pure, he didn't drink, or womanize or wotever > except he loved to drink..and then there were his mistresses > its called myth building > To send an email to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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