Guest guest Posted December 7, 2005 Report Share Posted December 7, 2005 I am on a couple of vegetarian recipe sites. Don't know where else it might be unless you are on a stitchery site? I see that we are both on comcast.net, maybe we have met there? LOL I had thought Susan seemed very familiar too, but realized that it was simply because we hold some of the same views and needed to do some separation work. <grinning> You will probably get this post by the new year...they still have me on moderated mail since I am new (older by the day) and the mail doesn't get out for at least 12 hours or more...it makes for a very messy situation and maybe I will wait until they take me off before I post anything more. linda "Whatever you do will be insignificant and it is very important that you do it."Mohandas Gandhi linda's Growing Stitchery Projects: womyn47 - earthstrm Wednesday, December 07, 2005 6:29 AM Re: Condoning behavior Hi Linda,You are very familiar to me. Do we know each other from elsewhere?Nikki Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 7, 2005 Report Share Posted December 7, 2005 Linda, I don't think our views are so terribly separated. :-) Susan --- linda <lindai81 wrote: > I am on a couple of vegetarian recipe sites. Don't > know where else it might be unless you are on a > stitchery site? I see that we are both on > comcast.net, maybe we have met there? LOL I had > thought Susan seemed very familiar too, but realized > that it was simply because we hold some of the same > views and needed to do some separation work. > <grinning> > > You will probably get this post by the new > year...they still have me on moderated mail since I > am new (older by the day) and the mail doesn't get > out for at least 12 hours or more...it makes for a > very messy situation and maybe I will wait until > they take me off before I post anything more. > linda > " Whatever you do will be insignificant and it is > very important that you do it. " > Mohandas Gandhi > > linda's Growing Stitchery Projects: > womyn47 > - > earthstrm > > Wednesday, December 07, 2005 6:29 AM > Re: Condoning behavior > > > Hi Linda, > > You are very familiar to me. Do we know each other > from elsewhere? > > Nikki > ________ DSL – Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less. dsl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 8, 2005 Report Share Posted December 8, 2005 NO! That isn't what I meant. I too agree that we hold such similar views that maybe we are clones and in need of some separation work so that we don't fold if the other one disappears! I mean after all with such similar views maybe we were Siamese twins, the three of us, at birth and have been cut apart. Or, of course, there is the possibility that we don't have minds of our own. LOL linda "Whatever you do will be insignificant and it is very important that you do it."Mohandas Gandhi linda's Growing Stitchery Projects: womyn47 - Susan Wednesday, December 07, 2005 3:33 PM Re: Nikki question Linda, I don't think our views are so terriblyseparated. :-)Susan--- linda <lindai81 wrote:> I am on a couple of vegetarian recipe sites. Don't> know where else it might be unless you are on a> stitchery site? I see that we are both on> comcast.net, maybe we have met there? LOL I had> thought Susan seemed very familiar too, but realized> that it was simply because we hold some of the same> views and needed to do some separation work.> <grinning>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 8, 2005 Report Share Posted December 8, 2005 Oh! So the next time I'm talking to myself I have a better excuse! LOL --- linda <lindai81 wrote: > NO! That isn't what I meant. I too agree that we > hold such similar views that maybe we are clones and > in need of some separation work so that we don't > fold if the other one disappears! I mean after all > with such similar views maybe we were Siamese twins, > the three of us, at birth and have been cut apart. > Or, of course, there is the possibility that we > don't have minds of our own. LOL > linda > " Whatever you do will be insignificant and it is > very important that you do it. " > Mohandas Gandhi > > linda's Growing Stitchery Projects: > womyn47 > - > Susan > > Wednesday, December 07, 2005 3:33 PM > Re: Nikki question > > > Linda, I don't think our views are so terribly > separated. :-) > Susan > > --- linda <lindai81 wrote: > > > I am on a couple of vegetarian recipe sites. > Don't > > know where else it might be unless you are on a > > stitchery site? I see that we are both on > > comcast.net, maybe we have met there? LOL I had > > thought Susan seemed very familiar too, but > realized > > that it was simply because we hold some of the > same > > views and needed to do some separation work. > > <grinning> > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 8, 2005 Report Share Posted December 8, 2005 Perhaps that is it then. We have posted somewhere together before. I am no longer very active on any other vegan/veggie sites other than this one tho. Not even the one I run for a friend. lol And no stichery sites to my name. Tho I did check out your stitchery link and see quite a few American Indian/Native American works there. Very pretty! Is this something that you are interested in? And no worries about the delay in posts, as you can see I am so far behind it doesn't matter. Besides, I know that Peter, Jo and Fraggle do their best to get the messages out as soon as they can. And with the problems they have had on this group in year's past, I do not blame them for being cautious at all. You would not believe some of the past discussions that had to be deleted due to members attacking one another on different points of view. Much less the SPAM they have been hit with. Besides, I think they are only being fair as in to make sure they mod each member the same. Wouldn't be good to let one members posts in before another. Of course, maybe I am just speaking of the way that I run my groups. You'd have to ask them. Oh and sorry so late on my reply, I'll get there tho! Nikki , " linda " <lindai81@c...> wrote: > > I am on a couple of vegetarian recipe sites. Don't know where else it might be unless you are on a stitchery site? I see that we are both on comcast.net, maybe we have met there? LOL I had thought Susan seemed very familiar too, but realized that it was simply because we hold some of the same views and needed to do some separation work. <grinning> > > You will probably get this post by the new year...they still have me on moderated mail since I am new (older by the day) and the mail doesn't get out for at least 12 hours or more...it makes for a very messy situation and maybe I will wait until they take me off before I post anything more. > linda > " Whatever you do will be insignificant and it is very important that you do it. " > Mohandas Gandhi > > linda's Growing Stitchery Projects: womyn47 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 8, 2005 Report Share Posted December 8, 2005 Well, I just joined a couple of vegetarian recipe sites within the past few weeks so doubt we met each other there. I have no clue. I don't recognize the earthstrm addy, but maybe we have past each other on comcast.net highway. LOL Native American motifs and animals, (of the wild/free kind) are my thing. I have a Native American background (Kickapoo & Shawnee), spent a lot of time in the Southwest and taken weaving workshops from Pearl Sunrise, a well know ambassador for Native American issues over seas. I also weave on a Navajo style loom. Haven't done much of that lately since we moved into a really small place, but are looking now for a larger place so that I can put my looms back up. All of the work I do is simply because I love it and it is very meditative for me. Never sell. The site was due to being on the stitchery sites where everyone shared their work. Glad that you enjoyed them. I am the happiest when doing them. When doing the animals I used to put their eyes in last as I felt them staring at me. (woo) LOL Now I put them in first so I can talk to them and let them live...they guide me so I make lots of changes to suit them. Now, you can send the funny guys with the funny white coats to haul me off. <grinning> linda "Whatever you do will be insignificant and it is very important that you do it."Mohandas Gandhi linda's Growing Stitchery Projects: womyn47 - earthstrm Thursday, December 08, 2005 10:29 AM Re: Nikki question Perhaps that is it then. We have posted somewhere together before.I am no longer very active on any other vegan/veggie sites other than this one tho. Not even the one I run for a friend. lol And no stichery sites to my name.Tho I did check out your stitchery link and see quite a few American Indian/Native American works there. Very pretty! Is this something that you are interested in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 8, 2005 Report Share Posted December 8, 2005 Oh I so do love those little white jackets that tie in the back that they have! Actually, it sounds very peaceful. I use to be under " nikkimack " for the longest time, perhaps you know me that way. Nikki , " linda " <lindai81@c...> wrote: > > Well, I just joined a couple of vegetarian recipe sites within the past few weeks so doubt we met each other there. I have no clue. I don't recognize the earthstrm addy, but maybe we have past each other on comcast.net highway. LOL > > Native American motifs and animals, (of the wild/free kind) are my thing. I have a Native American background (Kickapoo & Shawnee), spent a lot of time in the Southwest and taken weaving workshops from Pearl Sunrise, a well know ambassador for Native American issues over seas. I also weave on a Navajo style loom. Haven't done much of that lately since we moved into a really small place, but are looking now for a larger place so that I can put my looms back up. All of the work I do is simply because I love it and it is very meditative for me. Never sell. The site was due to being on the stitchery sites where everyone shared their work. Glad that you enjoyed them. I am the happiest when doing them. When doing the animals I used to put their eyes in last as I felt them staring at me. (woo) LOL Now I put them in first so I can talk to them and let them live...they guide me so I make lots of changes to suit them. Now, you can send the funny guys with the funny white coats to haul me off. <grinning> > linda > " Whatever you do will be insignificant and it is very important that you do it. " > Mohandas Gandhi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 8, 2005 Report Share Posted December 8, 2005 i use to have one..... really.... earthstrm <earthstorm Dec 8, 2005 3:32 PM Re: Nikki question Oh I so do love those little white jackets that tie in the back that they have! Actually, it sounds very peaceful. I use to be under " nikkimack " for the longest time, perhaps you know me that way. Nikki , " linda " <lindai81@c...> wrote: > > Well, I just joined a couple of vegetarian recipe sites within the past few weeks so doubt we met each other there. I have no clue. I don't recognize the earthstrm addy, but maybe we have past each other on comcast.net highway. LOL > > Native American motifs and animals, (of the wild/free kind) are my thing. I have a Native American background (Kickapoo & Shawnee), spent a lot of time in the Southwest and taken weaving workshops from Pearl Sunrise, a well know ambassador for Native American issues over seas. I also weave on a Navajo style loom. Haven't done much of that lately since we moved into a really small place, but are looking now for a larger place so that I can put my looms back up. All of the work I do is simply because I love it and it is very meditative for me. Never sell. The site was due to being on the stitchery sites where everyone shared their work. Glad that you enjoyed them. I am the happiest when doing them. When doing the animals I used to put their eyes in last as I felt them staring at me. (woo) LOL Now I put them in first so I can talk to them and let them live...they guide me so I make lots of changes to suit them. Now, you can send the funny guys with the funny white coats to haul me off. <grinning> > linda > " Whatever you do will be insignificant and it is very important that you do it. " > Mohandas Gandhi To send an email to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 9, 2005 Report Share Posted December 9, 2005 These don't tie sweetie. They pull your arms together and wrap their octopus arms around you and then are latched together with a pad lock. Nikkimack? NIKKIMACK? Yep, the little men are on their way. It sounds so Native! If you want peaceful then why on earth are you on here with Fraggle and Peter? <grinning> linda "Whatever you do will be insignificant and it is very important that you do it."Mohandas Gandhi linda's Growing Stitchery Projects: womyn47 - earthstrm Oh I so do love those little white jackets that tie in the back that they have! ;)Actually, it sounds very peaceful.I use to be under "nikkimack" for the longest time, perhaps you know me that way.Nikki , "linda" <lindai81@c...> wrote:>> Well, I just joined a couple of vegetarian recipe sites within the past few weeks so doubt we met each other there. I have no clue. I don't recognize the earthstrm addy, but maybe we have past each other on comcast.net highway. LOL> > Native American motifs and animals, (of the wild/free kind) are my thing. I have a Native American background (Kickapoo & Shawnee), spent a lot of time in the Southwest and taken weaving workshops from Pearl Sunrise, a well know ambassador for Native American issues over seas. I also weave on a Navajo style loom. Haven't done much of that lately since we moved into a really small place, but are looking now for a larger place so that I can put my looms back up. All of the work I do is simply because I love it and it is very meditative for me. Never sell. The site was due to being on the stitchery sites where everyone shared their work. Glad that you enjoyed them. I am the happiest when doing them. When doing the animals I used to put their eyes in last as I felt them staring at me. (woo) LOL Now I put them in first so I can talk to them and let them live...they guide me so I make lots of changes to suit them. Now, you can send the funny guys with the funny white coats to haul me off. <grinning> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 9, 2005 Report Share Posted December 9, 2005 Just as I suspected. Kinky sex? linda fraggle i use to have one.....really....earthstrm <earthstormOh I so do love those little white jackets that tie in the back that they have! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 9, 2005 Report Share Posted December 9, 2005 a variety of things mostly i'd wear it to make ppl go "huh?!" linda Dec 8, 2005 4:42 PM Re: Re: Nikki question Just as I suspected. Kinky sex? linda fraggle i use to have one.....really....earthstrm <earthstormOh I so do love those little white jackets that tie in the back that they have! To send an email to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 9, 2005 Report Share Posted December 9, 2005 NMo men in white suits - I think that is very intuitive :-) Jo , " linda " <lindai81@c...> wrote: > > Well, I just joined a couple of vegetarian recipe sites within the past few weeks so doubt we met each other there. I have no clue. I don't recognize the earthstrm addy, but maybe we have past each other on comcast.net highway. LOL > > Native American motifs and animals, (of the wild/free kind) are my thing. I have a Native American background (Kickapoo & Shawnee), spent a lot of time in the Southwest and taken weaving workshops from Pearl Sunrise, a well know ambassador for Native American issues over seas. I also weave on a Navajo style loom. Haven't done much of that lately since we moved into a really small place, but are looking now for a larger place so that I can put my looms back up. All of the work I do is simply because I love it and it is very meditative for me. Never sell. The site was due to being on the stitchery sites where everyone shared their work. Glad that you enjoyed them. I am the happiest when doing them. When doing the animals I used to put their eyes in last as I felt them staring at me. (woo) LOL Now I put them in first so I can talk to them and let them live...they guide me so I make lots of changes to suit them. Now, you can send the funny guys with the funny white coats to haul me off. <grinning> > linda > " Whatever you do will be insignificant and it is very important that you do it. " > Mohandas Gandhi > > linda's Growing Stitchery Projects: womyn47 > - > earthstrm > > Thursday, December 08, 2005 10:29 AM > Re: Nikki question > > > Perhaps that is it then. We have posted somewhere together before. > > I am no longer very active on any other vegan/veggie sites other > than this one tho. Not even the one I run for a friend. lol And no > stichery sites to my name. > > Tho I did check out your stitchery link and see quite a few American > Indian/Native American works there. Very pretty! Is this something > that you are interested in? > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 9, 2005 Report Share Posted December 9, 2005 I think Aaron, the singer of My Dying Bride has one. He wears some really strange clothes for performances. Jo , fraggle <EBbrewpunx@e...> wrote: > > i use to have one..... > really.... > > > earthstrm <earthstorm@c...> > Dec 8, 2005 3:32 PM > > Re: Nikki question > > Oh I so do love those little white jackets that tie in the back that > they have! > > Actually, it sounds very peaceful. > > I use to be under " nikkimack " for the longest time, perhaps you know > me that way. > > Nikki > > , " linda " <lindai81@c...> wrote: > > > > Well, I just joined a couple of vegetarian recipe sites within the > past few weeks so doubt we met each other there. I have no clue. I > don't recognize the earthstrm addy, but maybe we have past each > other on comcast.net highway. LOL > > > > Native American motifs and animals, (of the wild/free kind) are my > thing. I have a Native American background (Kickapoo & Shawnee), > spent a lot of time in the Southwest and taken weaving workshops > from Pearl Sunrise, a well know ambassador for Native American > issues over seas. I also weave on a Navajo style loom. Haven't done > much of that lately since we moved into a really small place, but > are looking now for a larger place so that I can put my looms back > up. All of the work I do is simply because I love it and it is very > meditative for me. Never sell. The site was due to being on the > stitchery sites where everyone shared their work. Glad that you > enjoyed them. I am the happiest when doing them. When doing the > animals I used to put their eyes in last as I felt them staring at > me. (woo) LOL Now I put them in first so I can talk to them and let > them live...they guide me so I make lots of changes to suit them. > Now, you can send the funny guys with the funny white coats to haul > me off. <grinning> > > linda > > " Whatever you do will be insignificant and it is very important > that you do it. " > > Mohandas Gandhi > To send an email to - > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 9, 2005 Report Share Posted December 9, 2005 ....... and you wonder why the police harrass you! Jo Fraggle wrote: a variety of things mostly i'd wear it to make ppl go " huh?! " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 9, 2005 Report Share Posted December 9, 2005 It's possible, but I don't think that is what he meant... Nikki , " linda " <lindai81@c...> wrote: > > Just as I suspected. Kinky sex? > linda > fraggle > > i use to have one..... > really.... > > > earthstrm <earthstorm@c...> > > Oh I so do love those little white jackets that tie in the back that > they have! > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 9, 2005 Report Share Posted December 9, 2005 Hi linda, Yes I know, I suppose I should have said bind, just trying to be cute. But that's ok, fine, correct me if you musy. As for peaceful, that was in comment to your stitchery, the eyes, and talking to them. You said we could haul you off because of it, I found it to be peaceful. When I cross-stitch, I use the time to escape. I use it to do something that will relax my mind without doing straight out meditation. And I put my heart and peace into it. That is what your comment reminded me of. As for peaceful and here, it's simple. Because I luv those guys. (Counting both Peters) They keep me on my toes. Jo and most here too. This is a home. Nikki , " linda " <lindai81@c...> wrote: > > These don't tie sweetie. They pull your arms together and wrap their octopus arms around you and then are latched together with a pad lock. Nikkimack? NIKKIMACK? Yep, the little men are on their way. It sounds so Native! If you want peaceful then why on earth are you on here with Fraggle and Peter? <grinning> > linda > " Whatever you do will be insignificant and it is very important that you do it. " > Mohandas Gandhi > > linda's Growing Stitchery Projects: womyn47 > - > earthstrm > > > Oh I so do love those little white jackets that tie in the back that > they have! > > Actually, it sounds very peaceful. > > I use to be under " nikkimack " for the longest time, perhaps you know > me that way. > > Nikki > > , " linda " <lindai81@c...> wrote: > > > > Well, I just joined a couple of vegetarian recipe sites within the > past few weeks so doubt we met each other there. I have no clue. I > don't recognize the earthstrm addy, but maybe we have past each > other on comcast.net highway. LOL > > > > Native American motifs and animals, (of the wild/free kind) are my > thing. I have a Native American background (Kickapoo & Shawnee), > spent a lot of time in the Southwest and taken weaving workshops > from Pearl Sunrise, a well know ambassador for Native American > issues over seas. I also weave on a Navajo style loom. Haven't done > much of that lately since we moved into a really small place, but > are looking now for a larger place so that I can put my looms back > up. All of the work I do is simply because I love it and it is very > meditative for me. Never sell. The site was due to being on the > stitchery sites where everyone shared their work. Glad that you > enjoyed them. I am the happiest when doing them. When doing the > animals I used to put their eyes in last as I felt them staring at > me. (woo) LOL Now I put them in first so I can talk to them and let > them live...they guide me so I make lots of changes to suit them. > Now, you can send the funny guys with the funny white coats to haul > me off. <grinning> > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 9, 2005 Report Share Posted December 9, 2005 ROFL! Geez, and here I thought you were saying how peaceful it would be to be wearing a straight jacket. I have recalled the little men. And because you are a fellow-ess traveler too. Yes, this is a nice list where people appear to be mostly on the same page. That is refreshing. As far as the meditation I wasn't particularly thinking about a set practice except in the fact that cross stitch is a practice. Anything that gets you to stop thinking is a practice. I can't do anything/thinking cross stitch or needlepoint. I have totally zoned out. LOL Some would say that that state is much too prolonged. <grinning> linda "Whatever you do will be insignificant and it is very important that you do it."Mohandas Gandhi linda's Growing Stitchery Projects: womyn47 - earthstrm Friday, December 09, 2005 4:24 AM Re: Nikki question Hi linda,Yes I know, I suppose I should have said bind, just trying to be cute. But that's ok, fine, correct me if you musy. ;)As for peaceful, that was in comment to your stitchery, the eyes, and talking to them. You said we could haul you off because of it, I found it to be peaceful.When I cross-stitch, I use the time to escape. I use it to do something that will relax my mind without doing straight out meditation. And I put my heart and peace into it. That is what your comment reminded me of.As for peaceful and here, it's simple. Because I luv those guys. (Counting both Peters) They keep me on my toes. Jo and most here too. This is a home.Nikki , "linda" <lindai81@c...> wrote:>> These don't tie sweetie. They pull your arms together and wrap their octopus arms around you and then are latched together with a pad lock. Nikkimack? NIKKIMACK? Yep, the little men are on their way. It sounds so Native! If you want peaceful then why on earth are you on here with Fraggle and Peter? <grinning>> linda> "Whatever you do will be insignificant and it is very important that you do it."> Mohandas Gandhi> > linda's Growing Stitchery Projects: womyn47> - > earthstrm > > > Oh I so do love those little white jackets that tie in the back that > they have! > > Actually, it sounds very peaceful.> > I use to be under "nikkimack" for the longest time, perhaps you know > me that way.> > Nikki > > , "linda" <lindai81@c...> wrote:> >> > Well, I just joined a couple of vegetarian recipe sites within the > past few weeks so doubt we met each other there. I have no clue. I > don't recognize the earthstrm addy, but maybe we have past each > other on comcast.net highway. LOL> > > > Native American motifs and animals, (of the wild/free kind) are my > thing. I have a Native American background (Kickapoo & Shawnee), > spent a lot of time in the Southwest and taken weaving workshops > from Pearl Sunrise, a well know ambassador for Native American > issues over seas. I also weave on a Navajo style loom. Haven't done > much of that lately since we moved into a really small place, but > are looking now for a larger place so that I can put my looms back > up. All of the work I do is simply because I love it and it is very > meditative for me. Never sell. The site was due to being on the > stitchery sites where everyone shared their work. Glad that you > enjoyed them. I am the happiest when doing them. When doing the > animals I used to put their eyes in last as I felt them staring at > me. (woo) LOL Now I put them in first so I can talk to them and let > them live...they guide me so I make lots of changes to suit them. > Now, you can send the funny guys with the funny white coats to haul > me off. <grinning>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 9, 2005 Report Share Posted December 9, 2005 i see...cuz i dress a tad different it gives the police carte blanche to hand cuff me, toss me in the back of police cars, follow me, pull their guns on me, throw my friends to the ground, shoot at me, etc and so forth? pheh! heartwerk <jo.heartwork Dec 9, 2005 12:02 AM Re: Nikki question ....... and you wonder why the police harrass you! Jo Fraggle wrote: a variety of things mostly i'd wear it to make ppl go " huh?! " To send an email to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 9, 2005 Report Share Posted December 9, 2005 a lil bit of column a a lil bit of column b earthstrm <earthstorm Dec 9, 2005 4:18 AM Re: Nikki question It's possible, but I don't think that is what he meant... Nikki , " linda " <lindai81@c...> wrote: > > Just as I suspected. Kinky sex? > linda > fraggle > > i use to have one..... > really.... > > > earthstrm <earthstorm@c...> > > Oh I so do love those little white jackets that tie in the back that > they have! > To send an email to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 9, 2005 Report Share Posted December 9, 2005 I like individuality, and self expression as long as it doesnt hurt anyone. Who cares if you look like youve escaped from an insane asylum? You are doing a lot less damage than a lot of other folks. The Valley Vegan............fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote: i see...cuz i dress a tad different it gives the police carte blanche to hand cuff me, toss me in the back of police cars, follow me, pull their guns on me, throw my friends to the ground, shoot at me, etc and so forth?pheh!heartwerk Dec 9, 2005 12:02 AM Subject: Re: Nikki question...... and you wonder why the police harrass you!JoFraggle wrote:a variety of thingsmostly i'd wear it to make ppl go "huh?!"To send an email to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.