Re:MORRISSEY RULES

January 19, 2006

hi Peters,

Read the article again. I beg you.

now think freshly, who is this article in favor of? it begings with

the words.. Morrissey supports violence.

what I ask you is the definition of VIOLENCE.

they quote a spokesperson from the HLS as saying

" A spokesman for HLS said: " People can have whatever opinions they

want, but to condone and encourage acts of violence is entirely wrong

and should not be allowed in a democracy. "

who is commiting acts of violence to whom?

Is only human terror legitimate? what about the terror in the eyes of

a monkey, rabbit or a beagle feel as they are about to be experimented

on and later disposed as garbage.

OH Wow, someone set fire to a lab

after they freed the animals.. BIG WHOOP, most of the time no human

is hurt.

This article says

" While he has never before supported violent tactic......

C'mon, Morrissey should be given the Nobel Peace Prize compare to

these pseudoscientists.

quote from Morrissey:

" They (the ARM) are usually very intelligent people who are forced to

act because the law is shameful or amoral. "

That's right SHAMEFUL and AMORAL as was the law for Slavery.

the real terrorists, the real violent men, the real criminals are

the men in white lab coats.

just because someone has earned a degree, gone to a university for x

amount of years does not

give him or her the right to perform barbaric acts to innocent animals

in the so called name of " science "

oxford, harvard, columbia their prestige can all kiss my ass.

The scientists protected by the police,

should not have the right to do whatever the hell they want to

animals. They are murderers no worse than Hitler.

the level of

torture in these labs are Unjustifiable. Laws that protect these

corporations from " violent acts " are hipocritical.

writting polite letters aint gonna stop em.

I wholeheardtely support the ALF and the ELF, because I believe that

they have a place in this society. They are the Rosa

Parks of today.

What kind of society would we have if people obeyed and never defied

any law.

I respect, highly a person

willing to get arrested to save the life of an animal. This person

has conviction, questions, and makes up his/her own mind

about what is really Right.

I do not distinguish myself very much from

someone willing to give up his life for the earth, which is beauty,

which is life.

The scumbags that keep experimenting on animals are the ones that

belong in jail.

if those where human children in there, people wouldn't think twice

about going in there and proctecting the children.

-anouk

when people wearing masks come into a lab and rescue animals..

they are called Terrorists.

when people wearing lab coats come into a lab and torture animals..

they are called Scientists.

-luciano bonfico, buenos aires.

, peter hurd <swpgh01@t...> wrote:

>

> I sort of agree, he does say that it is the language that they ( the

people dishing out the violence on poor defenceless animals ) speaks

and understands. O.K. simplifying a bit too much.........but violence

against property of the laboratories I think I support. Violence and

intimidation of the people and their property I could not condone.

>

> The Valley Vegan.................

>

> Peter <metalscarab@g...> wrote:

> Hi Peter

>

> > Morrissey supports animal rights violence

>

> There's a way to get a heated debate going... so, I'll wade in :-)

>

> No. I don't agree with Morrissey. As far as I see it, the way to

end vivisection is to give people information about the torture of

animals, and the inherent dangers to humanity in continuing with it.

Violence just gives the media something to focus on other than the

facts, and gets in the way of making people aware of the truth. It

does more harm to the cause than good.

>

> BB

> Peter

>

> To send an email to -

>

January 19, 2006

Hi Anouk

> Is only human terror legitimate? what about the terror in the eyes of

> a monkey, rabbit or a beagle feel as they are about to be experimented

> on and later disposed as garbage.

> OH Wow, someone set fire to a lab

> after they freed the animals.. BIG WHOOP, most of the time no human

> is hurt.

I think you've completely missed my point. In comitting acts of violence

(either against property or against people), it gives the media (the main

enemy of animal rights) the opportunity to focus on something other than the

real issues, and thereby helps to perpetuate the violence of vivisection. It

would be much more valuable to *claim* to have planted a bomb, wait for the

media to turn up, and then tell them that you'd never do anything like that,

but while they're their with all their cameras, they might as well do a

piece on the issues...

And personally speaking, I don't agree with the concept that two wrongs make

a right!

BB

Peter

January 20, 2006

Everyone here agrees that vivisection is wrong - so you are preaching

to the converted.

I don't think that burning places down has ever stopped vivisection.

What is the point of getting yourself arrested if it doesn't have a

successful outcome?

It is no good committing a crime because you are het up about

something if it doesn't achieve anything - and the only thing that

this sort of 'protest' has achieved is to make new laws against

protest of all kinds.

Jo

, " Anouk Sickler " <zurumato@e...>

wrote:

>

> hi Peters,

>

> Read the article again. I beg you.

> now think freshly, who is this article in favor of? it begings

with

> the words.. Morrissey supports violence.

>

> what I ask you is the definition of VIOLENCE.

>

> they quote a spokesperson from the HLS as saying

>

> " A spokesman for HLS said: " People can have whatever opinions they

> want, but to condone and encourage acts of violence is entirely

wrong

> and should not be allowed in a democracy. "

>

> who is commiting acts of violence to whom?

>

> Is only human terror legitimate? what about the terror in the eyes

of

> a monkey, rabbit or a beagle feel as they are about to be

experimented

> on and later disposed as garbage.

>

> OH Wow, someone set fire to a lab

> after they freed the animals.. BIG WHOOP, most of the time no

human

> is hurt.

>

> This article says

>

> " While he has never before supported violent tactic......

>

> C'mon, Morrissey should be given the Nobel Peace Prize compare to

> these pseudoscientists.

>

> quote from Morrissey:

> " They (the ARM) are usually very intelligent people who are forced

to

> act because the law is shameful or amoral. "

>

> That's right SHAMEFUL and AMORAL as was the law for Slavery.

>

> the real terrorists, the real violent men, the real criminals are

> the men in white lab coats.

>

> just because someone has earned a degree, gone to a university for x

> amount of years does not

> give him or her the right to perform barbaric acts to innocent

animals

> in the so called name of " science "

>

> oxford, harvard, columbia their prestige can all kiss my ass.

> The scientists protected by the police,

> should not have the right to do whatever the hell they want to

> animals. They are murderers no worse than Hitler.

> the level of

> torture in these labs are Unjustifiable. Laws that protect these

> corporations from " violent acts " are hipocritical.

>

> writting polite letters aint gonna stop em.

>

> I wholeheardtely support the ALF and the ELF, because I believe

that

> they have a place in this society. They are the Rosa

> Parks of today.

> What kind of society would we have if people obeyed and never

defied

> any law.

> I respect, highly a person

> willing to get arrested to save the life of an animal. This

person

> has conviction, questions, and makes up his/her own mind

> about what is really Right.

> I do not distinguish myself very much from

> someone willing to give up his life for the earth, which is beauty,

> which is life.

>

> The scumbags that keep experimenting on animals are the ones that

> belong in jail.

> if those where human children in there, people wouldn't think

twice

> about going in there and proctecting the children.

>

> -anouk

>

> when people wearing masks come into a lab and rescue animals..

> they are called Terrorists.

> when people wearing lab coats come into a lab and torture animals..

> they are called Scientists.

> -luciano bonfico, buenos aires.

>

> , peter hurd <swpgh01@t...> wrote:

> >

> > I sort of agree, he does say that it is the language that they (

the

> people dishing out the violence on poor defenceless animals ) speaks

> and understands. O.K. simplifying a bit too much.........but

violence

> against property of the laboratories I think I support. Violence and

> intimidation of the people and their property I could not condone.

> >

> > The Valley Vegan.................

> >

> > Peter <metalscarab@g...> wrote:

> > Hi Peter

> >

> > > Morrissey supports animal rights violence

> >

> > There's a way to get a heated debate going... so, I'll wade

in :-)

> >

> > No. I don't agree with Morrissey. As far as I see it, the way to

> end vivisection is to give people information about the torture of

> animals, and the inherent dangers to humanity in continuing with it.

> Violence just gives the media something to focus on other than the

> facts, and gets in the way of making people aware of the truth. It

> does more harm to the cause than good.

> >

> > BB

> > Peter

> >

> > To send an email to -

> >

>

January 20, 2006

Hi Jo

Very well put, thank you!

BB

Nikki

, " heartwerk " <jo.heartwork@g...>

wrote:

>

> Everyone here agrees that vivisection is wrong - so you are

preaching

> to the converted.

>

> I don't think that burning places down has ever stopped

vivisection.

> What is the point of getting yourself arrested if it doesn't have

a

> successful outcome?

>

> It is no good committing a crime because you are het up about

> something if it doesn't achieve anything - and the only thing that

> this sort of 'protest' has achieved is to make new laws against

> protest of all kinds.

>

> Jo

January 20, 2006

Hi Jo,

this morning, members of Greenpeace in Argentina, about 15 of them

tied themselves with lock and chain to a truck

that was heading to Uruguay.

This truck originated from a factory in Chile, and passed tru

argentina in order

to dump their chemical wastes in the Uruguayan River. A source of

life of animals and people.

I'm that tying themselves to this truck was completely illegal.

The keys to the locks on the hands of these people where delivered one

set to the Argentinan president and the other to the Uruguyian

President, as a way to get the two countries to talk about this.

The truck was stopped.

However in the news the president dissmissed it as " just an

environmental issue "

even though, this was only one truck, It got the attention of the

news and now people know the name of the Chilean Factory doing this.

I know that everyone here knows that vivisection is wrong. But this

article mentions Morrissey as being irresponsible.

No one mentioned the Scientists as possibly being irresponsible.

The media and articles like this are desperately trying to portray

animal rights activists as Violent, Deranged, Militant Wackos.

so they will take anything, even a simple comment by a Pop star and

turn it around to create fear to the public.

The truth is that a lot of people in the Animal Liberation Movement

are very, peaceful, quiet, people with strong convictions.

The reason that they burn places after rescuing bunnies is to create

an immediate monetary loss and to create an immediate disruption in

the process of that lab. These corporations for example P & G, the

only thing they care about is Money. The AlF believes that an animal

is not a " Property " .

my husband was trying to tell me that martin luther king accomplished

more, with non-violent methods than Malcom X did.

I see his point. I see Peters point and agree that violent begets

violence.

but some people feel that this isn't the 1950's anymore and that MLK

had time, he had time to plan ideas, march in a protest,

talk to people, give sermons, give interviews, write letters, etc.

Today there is a sense of urgency, 500 african americans weren't

dying in one day, as the animals in some labs are today. There is

also increasing censorship of free ideas by the government.

I support the Non-violent methods of MLK, and I believe that

peaceful protest can accomplish many things, however sometimes

you have to go a little extra way, break the law, as Rosa Parks

did, in order to be heard.

" The time will come when men such as I will look upon the murder of

animals as they

now look on the murder of men. " -- Leonardo da Vinci,

The animals of the world exist for their own reasons.

They were not made for humans any more than black people were made for

whites

or women for men. - Alice Walker

, " heartwerk " <jo.heartwork@g...> wrote:

>

> Everyone here agrees that vivisection is wrong - so you are preaching

> to the converted.

>

> I don't think that burning places down has ever stopped vivisection.

> What is the point of getting yourself arrested if it doesn't have a

> successful outcome?

>

> It is no good committing a crime because you are het up about

> something if it doesn't achieve anything - and the only thing that

> this sort of 'protest' has achieved is to make new laws against

> protest of all kinds.

>

> Jo

>

January 20, 2006

Hi Anouk

While it's a very interesting and worthwhile thing that those greenpeace

activists did, you'll notice that at no time did they ever threaten anyones

life, or even vandalise property. They used what is known as non-violent

direct action, something which I support wholeheartedly, and happily involve

myself in from time to time.

I always find it amazing the number of people who seem to be " armchair

aggressives " ... they claim to believe that bombing and harming is a good

plan, but aren't prepared to take the action themselves. I don't agree with

any aggressive action, but at least I do practice what I preach... and have

attempted to prevent people from taking violent action, and would do so

again should the need arise. Having said that, I will happily take part in

non-violent direct action such as that carried out by Greenpeace, as I

believe that this not only " gets the word out " , but does so in a way that

does not allow the media to focus on anything other than the issue.

BB

Peter

-

" Anouk Sickler " <zurumato

Friday, January 20, 2006 4:22 PM

Re:MORRISSEY RULES

> Hi Jo,

>

> this morning, members of Greenpeace in Argentina, about 15 of them

> tied themselves with lock and chain to a truck

> that was heading to Uruguay.

> This truck originated from a factory in Chile, and passed tru

> argentina in order

> to dump their chemical wastes in the Uruguayan River. A source of

> life of animals and people.

>

> I'm that tying themselves to this truck was completely illegal.

> The keys to the locks on the hands of these people where delivered one

> set to the Argentinan president and the other to the Uruguyian

> President, as a way to get the two countries to talk about this.

>

> The truck was stopped.

> However in the news the president dissmissed it as " just an

> environmental issue "

>

> even though, this was only one truck, It got the attention of the

> news and now people know the name of the Chilean Factory doing this.

>

> I know that everyone here knows that vivisection is wrong. But this

> article mentions Morrissey as being irresponsible.

>

> No one mentioned the Scientists as possibly being irresponsible.

>

> The media and articles like this are desperately trying to portray

> animal rights activists as Violent, Deranged, Militant Wackos.

> so they will take anything, even a simple comment by a Pop star and

> turn it around to create fear to the public.

>

> The truth is that a lot of people in the Animal Liberation Movement

> are very, peaceful, quiet, people with strong convictions.

>

> The reason that they burn places after rescuing bunnies is to create

> an immediate monetary loss and to create an immediate disruption in

> the process of that lab. These corporations for example P & G, the

> only thing they care about is Money. The AlF believes that an animal

> is not a " Property " .

>

> my husband was trying to tell me that martin luther king accomplished

> more, with non-violent methods than Malcom X did.

>

> I see his point. I see Peters point and agree that violent begets

> violence.

>

> but some people feel that this isn't the 1950's anymore and that MLK

> had time, he had time to plan ideas, march in a protest,

> talk to people, give sermons, give interviews, write letters, etc.

>

> Today there is a sense of urgency, 500 african americans weren't

> dying in one day, as the animals in some labs are today. There is

> also increasing censorship of free ideas by the government.

>

> I support the Non-violent methods of MLK, and I believe that

> peaceful protest can accomplish many things, however sometimes

> you have to go a little extra way, break the law, as Rosa Parks

> did, in order to be heard.

>

> " The time will come when men such as I will look upon the murder of

> animals as they

> now look on the murder of men. " -- Leonardo da Vinci,

>

> The animals of the world exist for their own reasons.

> They were not made for humans any more than black people were made for

> whites

> or women for men. - Alice Walker

>

> , " heartwerk " <jo.heartwork@g...> wrote:

> >

> > Everyone here agrees that vivisection is wrong - so you are preaching

> > to the converted.

> >

> > I don't think that burning places down has ever stopped vivisection.

> > What is the point of getting yourself arrested if it doesn't have a

> > successful outcome?

> >

> > It is no good committing a crime because you are het up about

> > something if it doesn't achieve anything - and the only thing that

> > this sort of 'protest' has achieved is to make new laws against

> > protest of all kinds.

> >

> > Jo

> >

> To send an email to -

>

January 20, 2006

As far as I know Greenpeace often break the law but they are not violent -

which is the point I am trying to make. I don't always agree with what

Greenpeace does but they do not commit violent crimes.

We could go to extremes and say that when activists burn down the buildings

they might be killing the mice that live under the floorboards, and the

spiders and silverfish that have made their homes in that building - so it's

not all as rosey as it might look. They also release a lot of pollution

into the atmosphere. I don't think there action is good.

The releasing of the animals, which is non-violent action, gets as much

publicity as the burning of the building. I am not against the ALF as most

of them do a good job, but I do disagree with violence, and over the top

actions like bombing lorries and burning buildings, which are very

irresponsible.

At times we all become emotional about the state of affairs as far as any

cruelty is concerned, but acting in an irresponsible manner does not help

the situation.

I also think it is wrong of people who do not commit the violent crimes to

encourage others to do so.

Jo

-

" Anouk Sickler " <zurumato

Friday, January 20, 2006 4:22 PM

Re:MORRISSEY RULES

> Hi Jo,

>

> this morning, members of Greenpeace in Argentina, about 15 of them

> tied themselves with lock and chain to a truck

> that was heading to Uruguay.

> This truck originated from a factory in Chile, and passed tru

> argentina in order

> to dump their chemical wastes in the Uruguayan River. A source of

> life of animals and people.

>

> I'm that tying themselves to this truck was completely illegal.

> The keys to the locks on the hands of these people where delivered one

> set to the Argentinan president and the other to the Uruguyian

> President, as a way to get the two countries to talk about this.

>

> The truck was stopped.

> However in the news the president dissmissed it as " just an

> environmental issue "

>

> even though, this was only one truck, It got the attention of the

> news and now people know the name of the Chilean Factory doing this.

>

> I know that everyone here knows that vivisection is wrong. But this

> article mentions Morrissey as being irresponsible.

>

> No one mentioned the Scientists as possibly being irresponsible.

>

> The media and articles like this are desperately trying to portray

> animal rights activists as Violent, Deranged, Militant Wackos.

> so they will take anything, even a simple comment by a Pop star and

> turn it around to create fear to the public.

>

> The truth is that a lot of people in the Animal Liberation Movement

> are very, peaceful, quiet, people with strong convictions.

>

> The reason that they burn places after rescuing bunnies is to create

> an immediate monetary loss and to create an immediate disruption in

> the process of that lab. These corporations for example P & G, the

> only thing they care about is Money. The AlF believes that an animal

> is not a " Property " .

>

> my husband was trying to tell me that martin luther king accomplished

> more, with non-violent methods than Malcom X did.

>

> I see his point. I see Peters point and agree that violent begets

> violence.

>

> but some people feel that this isn't the 1950's anymore and that MLK

> had time, he had time to plan ideas, march in a protest,

> talk to people, give sermons, give interviews, write letters, etc.

>

> Today there is a sense of urgency, 500 african americans weren't

> dying in one day, as the animals in some labs are today. There is

> also increasing censorship of free ideas by the government.

>

> I support the Non-violent methods of MLK, and I believe that

> peaceful protest can accomplish many things, however sometimes

> you have to go a little extra way, break the law, as Rosa Parks

> did, in order to be heard.

>

> " The time will come when men such as I will look upon the murder of

> animals as they

> now look on the murder of men. " -- Leonardo da Vinci,

>

> The animals of the world exist for their own reasons.

> They were not made for humans any more than black people were made for

> whites

> or women for men. - Alice Walker

>

> , " heartwerk " <jo.heartwork@g...> wrote:

> >

> > Everyone here agrees that vivisection is wrong - so you are preaching

> > to the converted.

> >

> > I don't think that burning places down has ever stopped vivisection.

> > What is the point of getting yourself arrested if it doesn't have a

> > successful outcome?

> >

> > It is no good committing a crime because you are het up about

> > something if it doesn't achieve anything - and the only thing that

> > this sort of 'protest' has achieved is to make new laws against

> > protest of all kinds.

> >

> > Jo

> >

> To send an email to -

>

January 20, 2006

Hi Peter

Well put - better than the one I have just sent in.

BB

Jo

-

" Peter " <metalscarab

Friday, January 20, 2006 6:34 PM

Re: Re:MORRISSEY RULES

> Hi Anouk

>

> While it's a very interesting and worthwhile thing that those greenpeace

> activists did, you'll notice that at no time did they ever threaten

anyones

> life, or even vandalise property. They used what is known as non-violent

> direct action, something which I support wholeheartedly, and happily

involve

> myself in from time to time.

>

> I always find it amazing the number of people who seem to be " armchair

> aggressives " ... they claim to believe that bombing and harming is a good

> plan, but aren't prepared to take the action themselves. I don't agree

with

> any aggressive action, but at least I do practice what I preach... and

have

> attempted to prevent people from taking violent action, and would do so

> again should the need arise. Having said that, I will happily take part in

> non-violent direct action such as that carried out by Greenpeace, as I

> believe that this not only " gets the word out " , but does so in a way that

> does not allow the media to focus on anything other than the issue.

>

> BB

> Peter

>

> -

> " Anouk Sickler " <zurumato

>

> Friday, January 20, 2006 4:22 PM

> Re:MORRISSEY RULES

>

> > Hi Jo,

> >

> > this morning, members of Greenpeace in Argentina, about 15 of them

> > tied themselves with lock and chain to a truck

> > that was heading to Uruguay.

> > This truck originated from a factory in Chile, and passed tru

> > argentina in order

> > to dump their chemical wastes in the Uruguayan River. A source of

> > life of animals and people.

> >

> > I'm that tying themselves to this truck was completely illegal.

> > The keys to the locks on the hands of these people where delivered one

> > set to the Argentinan president and the other to the Uruguyian

> > President, as a way to get the two countries to talk about this.

> >

> > The truck was stopped.

> > However in the news the president dissmissed it as " just an

> > environmental issue "

> >

> > even though, this was only one truck, It got the attention of the

> > news and now people know the name of the Chilean Factory doing this.

> >

> > I know that everyone here knows that vivisection is wrong. But this

> > article mentions Morrissey as being irresponsible.

> >

> > No one mentioned the Scientists as possibly being irresponsible.

> >

> > The media and articles like this are desperately trying to portray

> > animal rights activists as Violent, Deranged, Militant Wackos.

> > so they will take anything, even a simple comment by a Pop star and

> > turn it around to create fear to the public.

> >

> > The truth is that a lot of people in the Animal Liberation Movement

> > are very, peaceful, quiet, people with strong convictions.

> >

> > The reason that they burn places after rescuing bunnies is to create

> > an immediate monetary loss and to create an immediate disruption in

> > the process of that lab. These corporations for example P & G, the

> > only thing they care about is Money. The AlF believes that an animal

> > is not a " Property " .

> >

> > my husband was trying to tell me that martin luther king accomplished

> > more, with non-violent methods than Malcom X did.

> >

> > I see his point. I see Peters point and agree that violent begets

> > violence.

> >

> > but some people feel that this isn't the 1950's anymore and that MLK

> > had time, he had time to plan ideas, march in a protest,

> > talk to people, give sermons, give interviews, write letters, etc.

> >

> > Today there is a sense of urgency, 500 african americans weren't

> > dying in one day, as the animals in some labs are today. There is

> > also increasing censorship of free ideas by the government.

> >

> > I support the Non-violent methods of MLK, and I believe that

> > peaceful protest can accomplish many things, however sometimes

> > you have to go a little extra way, break the law, as Rosa Parks

> > did, in order to be heard.

> >

> > " The time will come when men such as I will look upon the murder of

> > animals as they

> > now look on the murder of men. " -- Leonardo da Vinci,

> >

> > The animals of the world exist for their own reasons.

> > They were not made for humans any more than black people were made for

> > whites

> > or women for men. - Alice Walker

> >

> > , " heartwerk " <jo.heartwork@g...>

wrote:

> > >

> > > Everyone here agrees that vivisection is wrong - so you are preaching

> > > to the converted.

> > >

> > > I don't think that burning places down has ever stopped vivisection.

> > > What is the point of getting yourself arrested if it doesn't have a

> > > successful outcome?

> > >

> > > It is no good committing a crime because you are het up about

> > > something if it doesn't achieve anything - and the only thing that

> > > this sort of 'protest' has achieved is to make new laws against

> > > protest of all kinds.

> > >

> > > Jo

> > >

> >

> > To send an email to -

> >

January 20, 2006

Unfortunately, this sort of action rarely makes the press any more as it is not as sensational as the more violent destruction going on in the world. To put it plainly, I realy do think peple care more about terrorism, loss of human life/habitat than they do about animals loss of life. And while I applaud every action Greenpeace takes, they make the press a lot less than they used to. So if blowing up a laborartory ( empty of course ), or hijacking and sabotaging trucks etc, makes the press and then all the better as far as I am concerned, as at least the reasons are known, and the make the press. Harming people and their personal property is totally unjustifyable in my opinion mind. The Valley Vegan.................Anouk Sickler <zurumato wrote: Hi Jo, this morning,

members of Greenpeace in Argentina, about 15 of them tied themselves with lock and chain to a truck that was heading to Uruguay. This truck originated from a factory in Chile, and passed tru argentina in order to dump their chemical wastes in the Uruguayan River. A source oflife of animals and people. I'm that tying themselves to this truck was completely illegal. The keys to the locks on the hands of these people where delivered oneset to the Argentinan president and the other to the UruguyianPresident, as a way to get the two countries to talk about this. The truck was stopped. However in the news the president dissmissed it as "just anenvironmental issue"even though, this was only one truck, It got the attention of thenews and now people know the name of the Chilean Factory doing this. I know that everyone here knows that vivisection is wrong. But thisarticle mentions Morrissey as being

irresponsible. No one mentioned the Scientists as possibly being irresponsible. The media and articles like this are desperately trying to portray animal rights activists as Violent, Deranged, Militant Wackos. so they will take anything, even a simple comment by a Pop star andturn it around to create fear to the public. The truth is that a lot of people in the Animal Liberation Movement are very, peaceful, quiet, people with strong convictions. The reason that they burn places after rescuing bunnies is to createan immediate monetary loss and to create an immediate disruption inthe process of that lab. These corporations for example P & G, theonly thing they care about is Money. The AlF believes that an animalis not a "Property". my husband was trying to tell me that martin luther king accomplishedmore, with non-violent methods than Malcom X did. I see his point. I see Peters point and agree that

violent begetsviolence. but some people feel that this isn't the 1950's anymore and that MLK had time, he had time to plan ideas, march in a protest, talk to people, give sermons, give interviews, write letters, etc.Today there is a sense of urgency, 500 african americans weren'tdying in one day, as the animals in some labs are today. There isalso increasing censorship of free ideas by the government. I support the Non-violent methods of MLK, and I believe thatpeaceful protest can accomplish many things, however sometimes you have to go a little extra way, break the law, as Rosa Parksdid, in order to be heard. "The time will come when men such as I will look upon the murder ofanimals as theynow look on the murder of men." -- Leonardo da Vinci, The animals of the world exist for their own reasons.They were not made for humans any more than black people were made forwhitesor women

for men. - Alice Walker , "heartwerk" wrote:>> Everyone here agrees that vivisection is wrong - so you are preaching > to the converted.> > I don't think that burning places down has ever stopped vivisection. > What is the point of getting yourself arrested if it doesn't have a > successful outcome? > > It is no good committing a crime because you are het up about > something if it doesn't achieve anything - and the only thing that > this sort of 'protest' has achieved is to make new laws against > protest of all kinds.> > Jo> >To send an email to -

January 20, 2006

Hi Peter

So what is the advantage of getting in the press?

BB

Peter

-

peter hurd

Friday, January 20, 2006 7:37 PM

Re: Re:MORRISSEY RULES

Unfortunately, this sort of action rarely makes the press any more as it is not as sensational as the more violent destruction going on in the world. To put it plainly, I realy do think peple care more about terrorism, loss of human life/habitat than they do about animals loss of life. And while I applaud every action Greenpeace takes, they make the press a lot less than they used to.

So if blowing up a laborartory ( empty of course ), or hijacking and sabotaging trucks etc, makes the press and then all the better as far as I am concerned, as at least the reasons are known, and the make the press.

Harming people and their personal property is totally unjustifyable in my opinion mind.

The Valley Vegan.................Anouk Sickler <zurumato wrote:

Hi Jo, this morning, members of Greenpeace in Argentina, about 15 of them tied themselves with lock and chain to a truck that was heading to Uruguay. This truck originated from a factory in Chile, and passed tru argentina in order to dump their chemical wastes in the Uruguayan River. A source oflife of animals and people. I'm that tying themselves to this truck was completely illegal. The keys to the locks on the hands of these people where delivered oneset to the Argentinan president and the other to the UruguyianPresident, as a way to get the two countries to talk about this. The truck was stopped. However in the news the president dissmissed it as "just anenvironmental issue"even though, this was only one truck, It got the attention of thenews and now people know the name of the Chilean Factory doing this. I know that everyone here knows that vivisection is wrong. But thisarticle mentions Morrissey as being irresponsible. No one mentioned the Scientists as possibly being irresponsible. The media and articles like this are desperately trying to portray animal rights activists as Violent, Deranged, Militant Wackos. so they will take anything, even a simple comment by a Pop star andturn it around to create fear to the public. The truth is that a lot of people in the Animal Liberation Movement are very, peaceful, quiet, people with strong convictions. The reason that they burn places after rescuing bunnies is to createan immediate monetary loss and to create an immediate disruption inthe process of that lab. These corporations for example P & G, theonly thing they care about is Money. The AlF believes that an animalis not a "Property". my husband was trying to tell me that martin luther king accomplishedmore, with non-violent methods than Malcom X did. I see his point. I see Peters point and agree that violent begetsviolence. but some people feel that this isn't the 1950's anymore and that MLK had time, he had time to plan ideas, march in a protest, talk to people, give sermons, give interviews, write letters, etc.Today there is a sense of urgency, 500 african americans weren'tdying in one day, as the animals in some labs are today. There isalso increasing censorship of free ideas by the government. I support the Non-violent methods of MLK, and I believe thatpeaceful protest can accomplish many things, however sometimes you have to go a little extra way, break the law, as Rosa Parksdid, in order to be heard. "The time will come when men such as I will look upon the murder ofanimals as theynow look on the murder of men." -- Leonardo da Vinci, The animals of the world exist for their own reasons.They were not made for humans any more than black people were made forwhitesor women for men. - Alice Walker , "heartwerk" wrote:>> Everyone here agrees that vivisection is wrong - so you are preaching > to the converted.> > I don't think that burning places down has ever stopped vivisection. > What is the point of getting yourself arrested if it doesn't have a > successful outcome? > > It is no good committing a crime because you are het up about > something if it doesn't achieve anything - and the only thing that > this sort of 'protest' has achieved is to make new laws against > protest of all kinds.> > Jo> >To send an email to -

January 20, 2006

Hi, Everyone,

I wonder about the effectiveness of writing letters to these companies

that practice vivisection. Consumers are usually very misinformed about

where their products came from, and I've noticed that information about

the cruelty of certain companies' labs will have an impact on people if

it's done effectively. So if people in a general sense don't like to

know that animals are being experimented on, I'm curious to know how

many letters it would take to convince companies to change their

destructive ways. I don't personally know anyone who's blown up a lab,

but it just seems to me that it would be a last, desperate resort to be

heard and listened to. I don't know, has anyone here ever written

letters, and if so, what was the outcome?

~Raven~

January 21, 2006

The media is a powerful tool for advertising any cause. If people read why the likes of Greenpeace FOE, ALF are doing what they are doing, then they can make up their minds. If the papers give them a blind eye as they seem to be lately then the message isnt heard, and maybe thats why I get charity mugged so many times in my lunch hour! ( which incidentally I personally think is counter productive and will turn some people away from supporting some charities ) The Valley Vegan.............Peter <metalscarab wrote: Hi Peter So what is the advantage of getting in the press? BB Peter - peter hurd Friday, January 20, 2006 7:37 PM Re: Re:MORRISSEY RULES Unfortunately, this sort of action rarely makes the press any more as it is not as sensational as the more violent destruction going on in the world. To put it

plainly, I realy do think peple care more about terrorism, loss of human life/habitat than they do about animals loss of life. And while I applaud every action Greenpeace takes, they make the press a lot less than they used to. So if blowing up a laborartory ( empty of course ), or hijacking and sabotaging trucks etc, makes the press and then all the better as far as I am concerned, as at least the reasons are known, and the make the press. Harming people and their personal property is totally unjustifyable in my opinion mind. The Valley Vegan.................Anouk Sickler <zurumato wrote: Hi Jo, this morning, members of Greenpeace in Argentina, about 15 of them tied themselves with lock and chain to a truck that was heading to Uruguay. This truck originated from a

factory in Chile, and passed tru argentina in order to dump their chemical wastes in the Uruguayan River. A source oflife of animals and people. I'm that tying themselves to this truck was completely illegal. The keys to the locks on the hands of these people where delivered oneset to the Argentinan president and the other to the UruguyianPresident, as a way to get the two countries to talk about this. The truck was stopped. However in the news the president dissmissed it as "just anenvironmental issue"even though, this was only one truck, It got the attention of thenews and now people know the name of the Chilean Factory doing this. I know that everyone here knows that vivisection is wrong. But thisarticle mentions Morrissey as being irresponsible. No one mentioned the Scientists as possibly being irresponsible. The media and articles like this are desperately trying to portray animal

rights activists as Violent, Deranged, Militant Wackos. so they will take anything, even a simple comment by a Pop star andturn it around to create fear to the public. The truth is that a lot of people in the Animal Liberation Movement are very, peaceful, quiet, people with strong convictions. The reason that they burn places after rescuing bunnies is to createan immediate monetary loss and to create an immediate disruption inthe process of that lab. These corporations for example P & G, theonly thing they care about is Money. The AlF believes that an animalis not a "Property". my husband was trying to tell me that martin luther king accomplishedmore, with non-violent methods than Malcom X did. I see his point. I see Peters point and agree that violent begetsviolence. but some people feel that this isn't the 1950's anymore and that MLK had time, he had time to plan ideas, march in a protest, talk

to people, give sermons, give interviews, write letters, etc.Today there is a sense of urgency, 500 african americans weren'tdying in one day, as the animals in some labs are today. There isalso increasing censorship of free ideas by the government. I support the Non-violent methods of MLK, and I believe thatpeaceful protest can accomplish many things, however sometimes you have to go a little extra way, break the law, as Rosa Parksdid, in order to be heard. "The time will come when men such as I will look upon the murder ofanimals as theynow look on the murder of men." -- Leonardo da Vinci, The animals of the world exist for their own reasons.They were not made for humans any more than black people were made forwhitesor women for men. - Alice Walker , "heartwerk" wrote:>> Everyone here agrees that vivisection

is wrong - so you are preaching > to the converted.> > I don't think that burning places down has ever stopped vivisection. > What is the point of getting yourself arrested if it doesn't have a > successful outcome? > > It is no good committing a crime because you are het up about > something if it doesn't achieve anything - and the only thing that > this sort of 'protest' has achieved is to make new laws against > protest of all kinds.> > Jo> >To send an email to -

January 21, 2006

Doesn't that sort of prove that getting in the press has no positive effects.

Jo

-

peter hurd

Saturday, January 21, 2006 3:40 PM

Re: Re:MORRISSEY RULES

The media is a powerful tool for advertising any cause. If people read why the likes of Greenpeace FOE, ALF are doing what they are doing, then they can make up their minds. If the papers give them a blind eye as they seem to be lately then the message isnt heard, and maybe thats why I get charity mugged so many times in my lunch hour! ( which incidentally I personally think is counter productive and will turn some people away from supporting some charities )

The Valley Vegan.............Peter <metalscarab wrote:

Hi Peter

So what is the advantage of getting in the press?

BB

Peter

-

peter hurd

Friday, January 20, 2006 7:37 PM

Re: Re:MORRISSEY RULES

Unfortunately, this sort of action rarely makes the press any more as it is not as sensational as the more violent destruction going on in the world. To put it plainly, I realy do think peple care more about terrorism, loss of human life/habitat than they do about animals loss of life. And while I applaud every action Greenpeace takes, they make the press a lot less than they used to.

So if blowing up a laborartory ( empty of course ), or hijacking and sabotaging trucks etc, makes the press and then all the better as far as I am concerned, as at least the reasons are known, and the make the press.

Harming people and their personal property is totally unjustifyable in my opinion mind.

The Valley Vegan.................Anouk Sickler <zurumato wrote:

Hi Jo, this morning, members of Greenpeace in Argentina, about 15 of them tied themselves with lock and chain to a truck that was heading to Uruguay. This truck originated from a factory in Chile, and passed tru argentina in order to dump their chemical wastes in the Uruguayan River. A source oflife of animals and people. I'm that tying themselves to this truck was completely illegal. The keys to the locks on the hands of these people where delivered oneset to the Argentinan president and the other to the UruguyianPresident, as a way to get the two countries to talk about this. The truck was stopped. However in the news the president dissmissed it as "just anenvironmental issue"even though, this was only one truck, It got the attention of thenews and now people know the name of the Chilean Factory doing this. I know that everyone here knows that vivisection is wrong. But thisarticle mentions Morrissey as being irresponsible. No one mentioned the Scientists as possibly being irresponsible. The media and articles like this are desperately trying to portray animal rights activists as Violent, Deranged, Militant Wackos. so they will take anything, even a simple comment by a Pop star andturn it around to create fear to the public. The truth is that a lot of people in the Animal Liberation Movement are very, peaceful, quiet, people with strong convictions. The reason that they burn places after rescuing bunnies is to createan immediate monetary loss and to create an immediate disruption inthe process of that lab. These corporations for example P & G, theonly thing they care about is Money. The AlF believes that an animalis not a "Property". my husband was trying to tell me that martin luther king accomplishedmore, with non-violent methods than Malcom X did. I see his point. I see Peters point and agree that violent begetsviolence. but some people feel that this isn't the 1950's anymore and that MLK had time, he had time to plan ideas, march in a protest, talk to people, give sermons, give interviews, write letters, etc.Today there is a sense of urgency, 500 african americans weren'tdying in one day, as the animals in some labs are today. There isalso increasing censorship of free ideas by the government. I support the Non-violent methods of MLK, and I believe thatpeaceful protest can accomplish many things, however sometimes you have to go a little extra way, break the law, as Rosa Parksdid, in order to be heard. "The time will come when men such as I will look upon the murder ofanimals as theynow look on the murder of men." -- Leonardo da Vinci, The animals of the world exist for their own reasons.They were not made for humans any more than black people were made forwhitesor women for men. - Alice Walker , "heartwerk" wrote:>> Everyone here agrees that vivisection is wrong - so you are preaching > to the converted.> > I don't think that burning places down has ever stopped vivisection. > What is the point of getting yourself arrested if it doesn't have a > successful outcome? > > It is no good committing a crime because you are het up about > something if it doesn't achieve anything - and the only thing that > this sort of 'protest' has achieved is to make new laws against > protest of all kinds.> > Jo> >To send an email to -

January 21, 2006

Hi Peter

Exactly... and when acts of aggression are carried out, no-one reads *why* tthey are carried out - they just read what is written... that all animal rights activists are a bunch of aggressive nutters who don't care about human life, and want to cause trouble. How does that help the situation?

BB

Peter

-

peter hurd

Saturday, January 21, 2006 3:40 PM

Re: Re:MORRISSEY RULES

The media is a powerful tool for advertising any cause. If people read why the likes of Greenpeace FOE, ALF are doing what they are doing, then they can make up their minds. If the papers give them a blind eye as they seem to be lately then the message isnt heard, and maybe thats why I get charity mugged so many times in my lunch hour! ( which incidentally I personally think is counter productive and will turn some people away from supporting some charities )

The Valley Vegan.............Peter <metalscarab wrote:

Hi Peter

So what is the advantage of getting in the press?

BB

Peter

-

peter hurd

Friday, January 20, 2006 7:37 PM

Re: Re:MORRISSEY RULES

Unfortunately, this sort of action rarely makes the press any more as it is not as sensational as the more violent destruction going on in the world. To put it plainly, I realy do think peple care more about terrorism, loss of human life/habitat than they do about animals loss of life. And while I applaud every action Greenpeace takes, they make the press a lot less than they used to.

So if blowing up a laborartory ( empty of course ), or hijacking and sabotaging trucks etc, makes the press and then all the better as far as I am concerned, as at least the reasons are known, and the make the press.

Harming people and their personal property is totally unjustifyable in my opinion mind.

The Valley Vegan.................Anouk Sickler <zurumato wrote:

Hi Jo, this morning, members of Greenpeace in Argentina, about 15 of them tied themselves with lock and chain to a truck that was heading to Uruguay. This truck originated from a factory in Chile, and passed tru argentina in order to dump their chemical wastes in the Uruguayan River. A source oflife of animals and people. I'm that tying themselves to this truck was completely illegal. The keys to the locks on the hands of these people where delivered oneset to the Argentinan president and the other to the UruguyianPresident, as a way to get the two countries to talk about this. The truck was stopped. However in the news the president dissmissed it as "just anenvironmental issue"even though, this was only one truck, It got the attention of thenews and now people know the name of the Chilean Factory doing this. I know that everyone here knows that vivisection is wrong. But thisarticle mentions Morrissey as being irresponsible. No one mentioned the Scientists as possibly being irresponsible. The media and articles like this are desperately trying to portray animal rights activists as Violent, Deranged, Militant Wackos. so they will take anything, even a simple comment by a Pop star andturn it around to create fear to the public. The truth is that a lot of people in the Animal Liberation Movement are very, peaceful, quiet, people with strong convictions. The reason that they burn places after rescuing bunnies is to createan immediate monetary loss and to create an immediate disruption inthe process of that lab. These corporations for example P & G, theonly thing they care about is Money. The AlF believes that an animalis not a "Property". my husband was trying to tell me that martin luther king accomplishedmore, with non-violent methods than Malcom X did. I see his point. I see Peters point and agree that violent begetsviolence. but some people feel that this isn't the 1950's anymore and that MLK had time, he had time to plan ideas, march in a protest, talk to people, give sermons, give interviews, write letters, etc.Today there is a sense of urgency, 500 african americans weren'tdying in one day, as the animals in some labs are today. There isalso increasing censorship of free ideas by the government. I support the Non-violent methods of MLK, and I believe thatpeaceful protest can accomplish many things, however sometimes you have to go a little extra way, break the law, as Rosa Parksdid, in order to be heard. "The time will come when men such as I will look upon the murder ofanimals as theynow look on the murder of men." -- Leonardo da Vinci, The animals of the world exist for their own reasons.They were not made for humans any more than black people were made forwhitesor women for men. - Alice Walker , "heartwerk" wrote:>> Everyone here agrees that vivisection is wrong - so you are preaching > to the converted.> > I don't think that burning places down has ever stopped vivisection. > What is the point of getting yourself arrested if it doesn't have a > successful outcome? > > It is no good committing a crime because you are het up about > something if it doesn't achieve anything - and the only thing that > this sort of 'protest' has achieved is to make new laws against > protest of all kinds.> > Jo> >To send an email to -

January 22, 2006

Hi Raven

Writing letters to the companies themselves is fairly futile - but writing

to the people who fund them and provide them with services can be, and has

been very successful. In the UK, HLS was almost forced to close down after a

letter writing campaign convinced Royal Bank of Scotland to withdraw their

financial support - unfortunately the government stepped in to save them,

but it goes to show that a well organised letter writing campaign can have a

strong impact.

BB

Peter

-

" Raven " <cailleachraven86

Friday, January 20, 2006 9:42 PM

Re:MORRISSEY RULES

> Hi, Everyone,

> I wonder about the effectiveness of writing letters to these companies

> that practice vivisection. Consumers are usually very misinformed about

> where their products came from, and I've noticed that information about

> the cruelty of certain companies' labs will have an impact on people if

> it's done effectively. So if people in a general sense don't like to

> know that animals are being experimented on, I'm curious to know how

> many letters it would take to convince companies to change their

> destructive ways. I don't personally know anyone who's blown up a lab,

> but it just seems to me that it would be a last, desperate resort to be

> heard and listened to. I don't know, has anyone here ever written

> letters, and if so, what was the outcome?

> ~Raven~

>

To send an email to -

>

January 22, 2006

I totally dissagree, maybe we read different papers?There are one or two un biased reports? The Valley Vegan..........Peter <metalscarab wrote: Hi Peter Exactly... and when acts of aggression are carried out, no-one reads *why* tthey are carried out - they just read what is written... that all animal rights activists are a bunch of aggressive nutters who don't care about human life, and want to cause trouble. How does that help the situation? BB Peter - peter hurd Saturday, January 21, 2006 3:40 PM Re: Re:MORRISSEY RULES The media is a powerful tool for advertising any cause. If people read why the likes of Greenpeace FOE, ALF are doing what they are doing, then they can make up their minds. If the papers give them a blind eye as they seem to be lately then the message isnt heard, and maybe thats why I get charity mugged so

many times in my lunch hour! ( which incidentally I personally think is counter productive and will turn some people away from supporting some charities ) The Valley Vegan.............Peter <metalscarab wrote: Hi Peter So what is the advantage of getting in the press? BB Peter - peter hurd Friday, January 20, 2006 7:37 PM Re: Re:MORRISSEY RULES Unfortunately, this sort of action rarely makes the press any more as it is not as sensational as the more violent destruction going on in the world. To put it plainly, I realy do think peple care more about terrorism, loss of human life/habitat than they do about animals loss of life. And while I applaud every action Greenpeace takes, they make the press a lot less than they used to. So if blowing up a laborartory ( empty of course ), or hijacking and sabotaging

trucks etc, makes the press and then all the better as far as I am concerned, as at least the reasons are known, and the make the press. Harming people and their personal property is totally unjustifyable in my opinion mind. The Valley Vegan.................Anouk Sickler <zurumato wrote: Hi Jo, this morning, members of Greenpeace in Argentina, about 15 of them tied themselves with lock and chain to a truck that was heading to Uruguay. This truck originated from a factory in Chile, and passed tru argentina in order to dump their chemical wastes in the Uruguayan River. A source oflife of animals and people. I'm that tying themselves to this truck was completely illegal. The keys to the locks on the hands of these people where delivered oneset to the

Argentinan president and the other to the UruguyianPresident, as a way to get the two countries to talk about this. The truck was stopped. However in the news the president dissmissed it as "just anenvironmental issue"even though, this was only one truck, It got the attention of thenews and now people know the name of the Chilean Factory doing this. I know that everyone here knows that vivisection is wrong. But thisarticle mentions Morrissey as being irresponsible. No one mentioned the Scientists as possibly being irresponsible. The media and articles like this are desperately trying to portray animal rights activists as Violent, Deranged, Militant Wackos. so they will take anything, even a simple comment by a Pop star andturn it around to create fear to the public. The truth is that a lot of people in the Animal Liberation Movement are very, peaceful, quiet, people with strong convictions.

The reason that they burn places after rescuing bunnies is to createan immediate monetary loss and to create an immediate disruption inthe process of that lab. These corporations for example P & G, theonly thing they care about is Money. The AlF believes that an animalis not a "Property". my husband was trying to tell me that martin luther king accomplishedmore, with non-violent methods than Malcom X did. I see his point. I see Peters point and agree that violent begetsviolence. but some people feel that this isn't the 1950's anymore and that MLK had time, he had time to plan ideas, march in a protest, talk to people, give sermons, give interviews, write letters, etc.Today there is a sense of urgency, 500 african americans weren'tdying in one day, as the animals in some labs are today. There isalso increasing censorship of free ideas by the government. I support the Non-violent methods of

MLK, and I believe thatpeaceful protest can accomplish many things, however sometimes you have to go a little extra way, break the law, as Rosa Parksdid, in order to be heard. "The time will come when men such as I will look upon the murder ofanimals as theynow look on the murder of men." -- Leonardo da Vinci, The animals of the world exist for their own reasons.They were not made for humans any more than black people were made forwhitesor women for men. - Alice Walker , "heartwerk" wrote:>> Everyone here agrees that vivisection is wrong - so you are preaching > to the converted.> > I don't think that burning places down has ever stopped vivisection. > What is the point of getting yourself arrested if it doesn't have a > successful outcome? > > It is no good committing a crime because

you are het up about > something if it doesn't achieve anything - and the only thing that > this sort of 'protest' has achieved is to make new laws against > protest of all kinds.> > Jo> >To send an email to -

January 22, 2006

Not if they report the action taken, and the reasons for it. The Valley Vegan...........jo <jo.heartwork wrote: Doesn't that sort of prove that getting in the press has no positive effects. Jo - peter hurd Saturday, January 21, 2006 3:40 PM Re: Re:MORRISSEY RULES The media is a powerful tool for advertising any cause. If people read why the likes of Greenpeace FOE, ALF are doing what they are doing, then they can make up their minds. If the papers give them a blind eye as they seem to be lately then the message isnt heard, and maybe thats why I get charity mugged so many times in my lunch hour! ( which incidentally I personally think is counter productive and will turn some people away from supporting some charities ) The Valley Vegan.............Peter <metalscarab wrote: Hi Peter So what is the advantage of getting in the press? BB Peter - peter hurd Friday, January 20, 2006 7:37

PM Re: Re:MORRISSEY RULES Unfortunately, this sort of action rarely makes the press any more as it is not as sensational as the more violent destruction going on in the world. To put it plainly, I realy do think peple care more about terrorism, loss of human life/habitat than they do about animals loss of life. And while I applaud every action Greenpeace takes, they make the press a lot less than they used to. So if blowing up a laborartory ( empty of course ), or hijacking and sabotaging trucks etc, makes the press and then all the better as far as I am concerned, as at least the reasons are known, and the make the press. Harming people and their personal property is totally unjustifyable in my opinion mind. The Valley Vegan.................Anouk Sickler <zurumato wrote: Hi Jo, this morning, members of Greenpeace in Argentina, about 15 of them tied themselves with lock and chain to a truck that was heading to Uruguay. This truck originated from a factory in Chile, and passed tru argentina in order to dump their chemical wastes in the Uruguayan River. A source oflife of animals and people. I'm that tying themselves to this truck was completely illegal. The keys to the locks on the hands of these people where delivered oneset to the Argentinan president and the other to the UruguyianPresident, as a way to get the two countries to talk about this. The truck was stopped. However in the news the president dissmissed it as "just anenvironmental issue"even though, this was only one truck, It got the attention of thenews and now people know the name of the Chilean Factory doing this.

I know that everyone here knows that vivisection is wrong. But thisarticle mentions Morrissey as being irresponsible. No one mentioned the Scientists as possibly being irresponsible. The media and articles like this are desperately trying to portray animal rights activists as Violent, Deranged, Militant Wackos. so they will take anything, even a simple comment by a Pop star andturn it around to create fear to the public. The truth is that a lot of people in the Animal Liberation Movement are very, peaceful, quiet, people with strong convictions. The reason that they burn places after rescuing bunnies is to createan immediate monetary loss and to create an immediate disruption inthe process of that lab. These corporations for example P & G, theonly thing they care about is Money. The AlF believes that an animalis not a "Property". my husband was trying to tell me that martin luther king

accomplishedmore, with non-violent methods than Malcom X did. I see his point. I see Peters point and agree that violent begetsviolence. but some people feel that this isn't the 1950's anymore and that MLK had time, he had time to plan ideas, march in a protest, talk to people, give sermons, give interviews, write letters, etc.Today there is a sense of urgency, 500 african americans weren'tdying in one day, as the animals in some labs are today. There isalso increasing censorship of free ideas by the government. I support the Non-violent methods of MLK, and I believe thatpeaceful protest can accomplish many things, however sometimes you have to go a little extra way, break the law, as Rosa Parksdid, in order to be heard. "The time will come when men such as I will look upon the murder ofanimals as theynow look on the murder of men." -- Leonardo da Vinci, The animals of the world

exist for their own reasons.They were not made for humans any more than black people were made forwhitesor women for men. - Alice Walker , "heartwerk" wrote:>> Everyone here agrees that vivisection is wrong - so you are preaching > to the converted.> > I don't think that burning places down has ever stopped vivisection. > What is the point of getting yourself arrested if it doesn't have a > successful outcome? > > It is no good committing a crime because you are het up about > something if it doesn't achieve anything - and the only thing that > this sort of 'protest' has achieved is to make new laws against > protest of all kinds.> > Jo> >To send an email to -

January 22, 2006

Hi Peter

And have you ever seen an article that actually *did* that?!

BB

Peter

-

peter hurd

Sunday, January 22, 2006 2:34 PM

Re: Re:MORRISSEY RULES

Not if they report the action taken, and the reasons for it.

The Valley Vegan...........

January 22, 2006

Hi Peter

> I totally dissagree, maybe we read different papers?There are one or two un biased reports?

I don't read papers, but I have yet to see any such report... please elucidate as to which particular reports you're talking about!

BB

Peter

January 22, 2006

Hi Raven,

I agree with Peter, there are many examples where inundations

of letters to companies, from people like us have made an impact.

One recent example is the Letter writing campaing and peaceful

protests that Peta asked us to carry out.

One of them being the J. Crew catalog, stopped carrying fur.

The other being Benneton, stopped using Austrlian wool, which

practice Musleing, a painful procedure to remmove the wool from

sheep.

There are many, many other examples of where letters work.

some say something " sorry you disagree, but this is business "

overall, I think that it is worth it, most of the time, Somebody

has to open that email or letter.

I try to keep mine polite and short and to the point. I think that

those work best.

, " Peter " <metalscarab@g...> wrote:

>

> Hi Raven

>

> Writing letters to the companies themselves is fairly futile - but

writing

> to the people who fund them and provide them with services can be,

and has

> been very successful. In the UK, HLS was almost forced to close down

after a

> letter writing campaign convinced Royal Bank of Scotland to withdraw

their

> financial support - unfortunately the government stepped in to save

them,

> but it goes to show that a well organised letter writing campaign

can have a

> strong impact.

>

> BB

> Peter

>

> -

> " Raven " <cailleachraven86>

>

> Friday, January 20, 2006 9:42 PM

> Re:MORRISSEY RULES

>

> > Hi, Everyone,

> > I wonder about the effectiveness of writing letters to these

companies

> > that practice vivisection. Consumers are usually very misinformed

about

> > where their products came from, and I've noticed that information

about

> > the cruelty of certain companies' labs will have an impact on

people if

> > it's done effectively. So if people in a general sense don't like to

> > know that animals are being experimented on, I'm curious to know how

> > many letters it would take to convince companies to change their

> > destructive ways. I don't personally know anyone who's blown up a lab,

> > but it just seems to me that it would be a last, desperate resort

to be

> > heard and listened to. I don't know, has anyone here ever written

> > letters, and if so, what was the outcome?

> > ~Raven~

> >

> > To send an email to -

> >

January 22, 2006

I give up! If you dont read papers, how would you see such a report? The Valley Vegan................Peter <metalscarab wrote: Hi Peter > I totally dissagree, maybe we read different papers?There are one or two un biased reports? I don't read papers, but I have yet to see any such report... please elucidate as to which particular reports you're talking about! BB Peter Peter H

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January 22, 2006

Obviously I have or I wouldnt have said it?, every criminal act has its motive, and these are usually reported. The Valley Vegan............Peter <metalscarab wrote: Hi Peter And have you ever seen an article that actually *did* that?! BB Peter - peter hurd Sunday, January 22, 2006 2:34 PM Re: Re:MORRISSEY RULES Not if they report the action taken, and the reasons for it. The Valley Vegan...........

January 22, 2006

I write letters, the one that springs to mind was not for animal rights but

humans. It was a campaign against Del Monte, for better treatment for their

workers. It took a lot of letters from me and many others (I did get

answers to my letters) but workers have slowly been getting better rights,

and are now 'allowed' to have a union.

The best threats are just to say that because ...... you will not be buying

this product, but would consider doing so if they change ...... (whatever it

is you want changed). If you also mention that you will tell everyone you

know that the product contains etc. (or whatever) it does make them think -

and sometimes things change.

I would never blow up anything (you can never guarantee that no living being

will be hurt), but I do not know of anything that has been changed as a

result.