ALF threatens all out war against Oxford students

[Guest guest]

Is it just me or does this make no sense at all, what sort of cedibility does ALF think it is going to get from an action like this? The Vlley Vegan................ ANIMAL activists have for the first time threatened violence against all staff and students at Oxford university over its plans for a £20m animal research laboratory. In a posting on an internet site, the Animal Liberation Front (ALF) has told its supporters that any academic, student or company connected to Oxford is a legitimate target, irrespective of whether they are involved in animal research. The warning threatens to turn the laboratory into one of the biggest confrontations between animal rights activists and the authorities. This weekend security sources confirmed that the government was underwriting the multi-million-pound cost of the security operation, one of the most sophisticated mounted by an animal research facility. Up to 100 security experts, including former soldiers, have been recruited for “counter-surveillance” operations and protection of key workers. In a sign that the government is determined to take on the activists, it has also emerged that it has earmarked another £20m that can be used for animal research facilities. Oxford University said last week that it was “appalled” by the ALF statement, but was determined to press ahead with the new laboratory. The Research Defence Society (RDS) said it was

concerned that the threat marked the prospect of a “new era” of violence in the animal rights movement. The statement, circulated to activists this month, said: “The ALF is calling out to the movement to unite and fight against the university on a maximum impact scale. We must target professors, teachers, heads, students, investors, partners, supporters and anyone that dares to deal in any part of the university.” Last week every builder working on the new laboratory was masked in a balaclava and accompanied by a personal security guard when walking outside the perimeter. The identity of the contractor has not been disclosed. One of the most sustained and intimidating campaigns to date by animal rights activists has been against Huntingdon Life Sciences (HLS), a commercial centre for animal experiments in Cambridgeshire. Brian Cass, chief executive of HLS, was attacked with a baseball bat, another member of staff had ammonia thrown in his face and the

company’s investors were threatened. HLS’s listing on the New York Stock Exchange was postponed after threats. Plans to build an animal primate laboratory in Cambridge were abandoned in early 2004 after a campaign. The decision was a blow to Tony Blair, who had given his personal support to the project. Oxford University said that 98% of animal experiments in the laboratory would be on rodents and fish. Animal campaigners say the experiments are unnecessary and cause the animals needless suffering. Peter H

 

Photos – NEW, now offering a quality print service from just 8p a photo.

[Guest guest]

I'm confused. I thought you thought there was a place for burning down laboratories etc.

 

I personally do not agree with anything illegal or violent - although I can't see where in this article it stated any violence.

 

Jo

 

-

peter hurd

Sunday, January 29, 2006 12:37 PM

Re: ALF threatens all out war against Oxford students

 

Is it just me or does this make no sense at all, what sort of cedibility does ALF think it is going to get from an action like this?

The Vlley Vegan................

 

 

ANIMAL activists have for the first time threatened violence against all staff and students at Oxford university over its plans for a £20m animal research laboratory. In a posting on an internet site, the Animal Liberation Front (ALF) has told its supporters that any academic, student or company connected to Oxford is a legitimate target, irrespective of whether they are involved in animal research.

 

 

 

 

 

 

The warning threatens to turn the laboratory into one of the biggest confrontations between animal rights activists and the authorities. This weekend security sources confirmed that the government was underwriting the multi-million-pound cost of the security operation, one of the most sophisticated mounted by an animal research facility. Up to 100 security experts, including former soldiers, have been recruited for “counter-surveillance” operations and protection of key workers. In a sign that the government is determined to take on the activists, it has also emerged that it has earmarked another £20m that can be used for animal research facilities. Oxford University said last week that it was “appalled” by the ALF statement, but was determined to press ahead with the new laboratory. The Research Defence Society (RDS) said it was concerned that the threat marked the prospect of a “new era” of violence in the animal rights movement. The statement, circulated to activists this month, said: “The ALF is calling out to the movement to unite and fight against the university on a maximum impact scale. We must target professors, teachers, heads, students, investors, partners, supporters and anyone that dares to deal in any part of the university.” Last week every builder working on the new laboratory was masked in a balaclava and accompanied by a personal security guard when walking outside the perimeter. The identity of the contractor has not been disclosed. One of the most sustained and intimidating campaigns to date by animal rights activists has been against Huntingdon Life Sciences (HLS), a commercial centre for animal experiments in Cambridgeshire. Brian Cass, chief executive of HLS, was attacked with a baseball bat, another member of staff had ammonia thrown in his face and the company’s investors were threatened. HLS’s listing on the New York Stock Exchange was postponed after threats. Plans to build an animal primate laboratory in Cambridge were abandoned in early 2004 after a campaign. The decision was a blow to Tony Blair, who had given his personal support to the project. Oxford University said that 98% of animal experiments in the laboratory would be on rodents and fish. Animal campaigners say the experiments are unnecessary and cause the animals needless suffering.

Peter H

 

 

 

Photos – NEW, now offering a quality print service from just 8p a photo.

[Guest guest]

Sounds like terror to me

 

Nikki

 

 

, peter hurd <swpgh01@t...> wrote:

>

> Is it just me or does this make no sense at all, what sort of

cedibility does ALF think it is going to get from an action like

this?

> The Vlley Vegan................

>

> ANIMAL activists have for the first time threatened violence

against all staff and students at Oxford university over its plans

for a £20m animal research laboratory. In a posting on an internet

site, the Animal Liberation Front (ALF) has told its supporters that

any academic, student or company connected to Oxford is a legitimate

target, irrespective of whether they are involved in animal

research.

 

<<SNIP>>>

>

> Peter H

>

>

>

>

> Photos – NEW, now offering a quality print service from

just 8p a photo.

>

[Guest guest]

Sorry to hear that you are confused! must be your age! ( sorry!) I have no problem supporting direct action as lt is against the company running/financing the barbaric practises such as animal experimentation, as long as it does`nt directly affect anyone else. So burn down the labs if you like ( they are probably insured anyway ), as long as it poses no threat to any innocent bystanders or their property. Threats of personal harm or physical violence I would never condone. Why these nutters should threaten people who attend the university just to learn is beyond me! The Valley Vegan............jo <jo.heartwork wrote: I'm confused. I thought you thought there was a place for

burning down laboratories etc. I personally do not agree with anything illegal or violent - although I can't see where in this article it stated any violence. Jo - peter hurd Sunday, January 29, 2006 12:37 PM Re: ALF threatens all out war against Oxford students Is it just me or does this make no sense at all, what sort of cedibility does ALF think it is going to get from an action like this? The Vlley Vegan................ ANIMAL activists have for the first time threatened violence against all staff and students at Oxford university over its plans for a £20m animal research laboratory. In a posting on an internet site, the Animal Liberation Front (ALF) has told its supporters that any academic, student or company connected to Oxford is a legitimate target, irrespective of whether they are involved in animal research. The warning threatens to turn the laboratory into one of the biggest confrontations between animal rights activists and the authorities. This weekend security sources confirmed that the government was underwriting the multi-million-pound cost of the security operation, one of the most sophisticated mounted by an animal research facility. Up to 100 security experts, including former soldiers, have been recruited for “counter-surveillance” operations and protection of key workers. In a sign that the government is determined to take on the activists, it has also emerged that it has earmarked another £20m that can be used for animal research facilities. Oxford University said last week that it was “appalled” by the ALF statement, but

was determined to press ahead with the new laboratory. The Research Defence Society (RDS) said it was concerned that the threat marked the prospect of a “new era” of violence in the animal rights movement. The statement, circulated to activists this month, said: “The ALF is calling out to the movement to unite and fight against the university on a maximum impact scale. We must target professors, teachers, heads, students, investors, partners, supporters and anyone that dares to deal in any part of the university.” Last week every builder working on the new laboratory was masked in a balaclava and accompanied by a personal security guard when walking outside the perimeter. The identity of the contractor has not been disclosed. One of the most sustained and intimidating campaigns to date by animal rights activists has been against Huntingdon Life Sciences (HLS), a commercial centre for animal experiments in Cambridgeshire. Brian Cass, chief executive

of HLS, was attacked with a baseball bat, another member of staff had ammonia thrown in his face and the company’s investors were threatened. HLS’s listing on the New York Stock Exchange was postponed after threats. Plans to build an animal primate laboratory in Cambridge were abandoned in early 2004 after a campaign. The decision was a blow to Tony Blair, who had given his personal support to the project. Oxford University said that 98% of animal experiments in the laboratory would be on rodents and fish. Animal campaigners say the experiments are unnecessary and cause the animals needless suffering. Peter H Photos – NEW, now offering a quality print service from just 8p a photo. Peter H

 

Photos – NEW, now offering a quality print service from just 8p a photo.

[Guest guest]

i would assume because they view it as guilty by association peter hurd Jan 30, 2006 2:19 PM Re: ALF threatens all out war against Oxford students

Sorry to hear that you are confused! must be your age! ( sorry!)

I have no problem supporting direct action as lt is against the company running/financing the barbaric practises such as animal experimentation, as long as it does`nt directly affect anyone else. So burn down the labs if you like ( they are probably insured anyway ), as long as it poses no threat to any innocent bystanders or their property.

Threats of personal harm or physical violence I would never condone. Why these nutters should threaten people who attend the university just to learn is beyond me!

 

The Valley Vegan............jo <jo.heartwork wrote:

 

I'm confused. I thought you thought there was a place for burning down laboratories etc.

 

I personally do not agree with anything illegal or violent - although I can't see where in this article it stated any violence.

 

Jo

 

-

peter hurd

Sunday, January 29, 2006 12:37 PM

Re: ALF threatens all out war against Oxford students

 

Is it just me or does this make no sense at all, what sort of cedibility does ALF think it is going to get from an action like this?

The Vlley Vegan................

 

 

ANIMAL activists have for the first time threatened violence against all staff and students at Oxford university over its plans for a £20m animal research laboratory. In a posting on an internet site, the Animal Liberation Front (ALF) has told its supporters that any academic, student or company connected to Oxford is a legitimate target, irrespective of whether they are involved in animal research.

 

 

 

 

 

NI_MPU('middle'); The warning threatens to turn the laboratory into one of the biggest confrontations between animal rights activists and the authorities. This weekend security sources confirmed that the government was underwriting the multi-million-pound cost of the security operation, one of the most sophisticated mounted by an animal research facility. Up to 100 security experts, including former soldiers, have been recruited for counter-surveillance operations and protection of key workers. In a sign that the government is determined to take on the activists, it has also emerged that it has earmarked another £20m that can be used for animal research facilities. Oxford University said last week that it was appalled by the ALF statement, but was determined to press ahead with the new laboratory. The Research Defence Society (RDS) said it was concerned that the threat marked the prospect of a new era of violence in the animal rights movement. The statement, circulated to activists this month, said: The ALF is calling out to the movement to unite and fight against the university on a maximum impact scale. We must target professors, teachers, heads, students, investors, partners, supporters and anyone that dares to deal in any part of the university. Last week every builder working on the new laboratory was masked in a balaclava and accompanied by a personal security guard when walking outside the perimeter. The identity of the contractor has not been disclosed. One of the most sustained and intimidating campaigns to date by animal rights activists has been against Huntingdon Life Sciences (HLS), a commercial centre for animal experiments in Cambridgeshire. Brian Cass, chief executive of HLS, was attacked with a baseball bat, another member of staff had ammonia thrown in his face and the companys investors were threatened. HLSs listing on the New York Stock Exchange was postponed after threats. Plans to build an animal primate laboratory in Cambridge were abandoned in early 2004 after a campaign. The decision was a blow to Tony Blair, who had given his personal support to the project. Oxford University said that 98% of animal experiments in the laboratory would be on rodents and fish. Animal campaigners say the experiments are unnecessary and cause the animals needless suffering.

Peter H

 

 

 

Photos NEW, now offering a quality print service from just 8p a photo.

 

Peter H

 

 

 

Photos NEW, now offering a quality print service from just 8p a photo. To send an email to -

 

[Guest guest]

I cannot see where it says that ALF have advocated violence. The first sentence mentions violence, but that is not from the ALF - it is from the reporter. I would imagine the action that is being asked for is intimidating but not violent. I think the report is done very cleverly - it mentions violence to begin with, and then people will think that the rest of the report is related to violence.

 

Jo

 

-

peter hurd

Monday, January 30, 2006 7:19 PM

Re: ALF threatens all out war against Oxford students

 

Sorry to hear that you are confused! must be your age! ( sorry!)

I have no problem supporting direct action as lt is against the company running/financing the barbaric practises such as animal experimentation, as long as it does`nt directly affect anyone else. So burn down the labs if you like ( they are probably insured anyway ), as long as it poses no threat to any innocent bystanders or their property.

Threats of personal harm or physical violence I would never condone. Why these nutters should threaten people who attend the university just to learn is beyond me!

 

The Valley Vegan............jo <jo.heartwork wrote:

 

I'm confused. I thought you thought there was a place for burning down laboratories etc.

 

I personally do not agree with anything illegal or violent - although I can't see where in this article it stated any violence.

 

Jo

 

-

peter hurd

Sunday, January 29, 2006 12:37 PM

Re: ALF threatens all out war against Oxford students

 

Is it just me or does this make no sense at all, what sort of cedibility does ALF think it is going to get from an action like this?

The Vlley Vegan................

 

 

ANIMAL activists have for the first time threatened violence against all staff and students at Oxford university over its plans for a £20m animal research laboratory. In a posting on an internet site, the Animal Liberation Front (ALF) has told its supporters that any academic, student or company connected to Oxford is a legitimate target, irrespective of whether they are involved in animal research.

 

 

 

 

 

 

The warning threatens to turn the laboratory into one of the biggest confrontations between animal rights activists and the authorities. This weekend security sources confirmed that the government was underwriting the multi-million-pound cost of the security operation, one of the most sophisticated mounted by an animal research facility. Up to 100 security experts, including former soldiers, have been recruited for “counter-surveillance” operations and protection of key workers. In a sign that the government is determined to take on the activists, it has also emerged that it has earmarked another £20m that can be used for animal research facilities. Oxford University said last week that it was “appalled” by the ALF statement, but was determined to press ahead with the new laboratory. The Research Defence Society (RDS) said it was concerned that the threat marked the prospect of a “new era” of violence in the animal rights movement. The statement, circulated to activists this month, said: “The ALF is calling out to the movement to unite and fight against the university on a maximum impact scale. We must target professors, teachers, heads, students, investors, partners, supporters and anyone that dares to deal in any part of the university.” Last week every builder working on the new laboratory was masked in a balaclava and accompanied by a personal security guard when walking outside the perimeter. The identity of the contractor has not been disclosed. One of the most sustained and intimidating campaigns to date by animal rights activists has been against Huntingdon Life Sciences (HLS), a commercial centre for animal experiments in Cambridgeshire. Brian Cass, chief executive of HLS, was attacked with a baseball bat, another member of staff had ammonia thrown in his face and the company’s investors were threatened. HLS’s listing on the New York Stock Exchange was postponed after threats. Plans to build an animal primate laboratory in Cambridge were abandoned in early 2004 after a campaign. The decision was a blow to Tony Blair, who had given his personal support to the project. Oxford University said that 98% of animal experiments in the laboratory would be on rodents and fish. Animal campaigners say the experiments are unnecessary and cause the animals needless suffering.

Peter H

 

 

 

Photos – NEW, now offering a quality print service from just 8p a photo.

 

Peter H

 

 

 

Photos – NEW, now offering a quality print service from just 8p a photo.

[Guest guest]

And what's happening to the animals is not terror? Dunno 'bout you but I

wouldn't like to be in a cage on my own, only having it unlocked so I could

have evil things done to me that hurt and tortured me. The animals are the

ones that are terrorised the most. I reckon everyone who is for vivisection

ought to go and live in a cage in a laboratory for a month and have the same

things done to them that they want done to a monkey or rat or fish. Then

they'd realise what it's like for those animals.

 

Personally, I'm against terrorism and violence or intimidation of any form -

which means it shouldn't happen to humans and it shouldn't happen to

animals. I'm for all the humane research that organisations like Dr Hadwen

Trust are using. I'd never do anything that the ALF type people might do. I

will go on a peaceful march that's been organised, I will post on my website

that I'm against vivisection, that sort of thing, but that's it. I have been

on a couple of the national Oxford demos to make my stand about vivisection.

I was at the last one - where we found out that the police had gone against

their agreement to let everyone walk up to the lab building. The police

stood in a line and wouldn't let anyone cross. That's why SPEAK have gotten

angry. They agreed on the route of the march with the police and then the

police backed down from their agreement. SPEAK write on their site,

www.speakcampaigns.org.uk what happened that day. I didn't see any of it

really. I was with my friend in the middle of the pack, just doing the

march, further back. But it was unfair that they should change the agreement

so we couldn't go right to the lab for the 1 minute silence that usually

takes place.

 

I personally don't see why Oxford Uni can't put that money into humane

research. We're never going to find proper cures for anything abusing

animals all the time, when they're so different to humans. This isn't the

17th century. We should be moving on into the future, using new methods, not

living in the dark age.

 

I know what you mean though. Things like the violence that a handful of

people might partake in also gives everyone who's into animal rights a bad

name, because then people think that all animal activists are like that -

when they're not. I don't know... If only the government and the lab would

actually listen more to SPEAK and start doing humane research. That would

seriously be the answer for everyone.

 

Shari

 

 

" earthstrm " <earthstorm wrote:

 

Sounds like terror to me

 

Nikki

 

 

, peter hurd <swpgh01@t...> wrote:

>

> Is it just me or does this make no sense at all, what sort of

cedibility does ALF think it is going to get from an action like

this?

> The Vlley Vegan................

>

> ANIMAL activists have for the first time threatened violence

against all staff and students at Oxford university over its plans

for a £20m animal research laboratory. In a posting on an internet

site, the Animal Liberation Front (ALF) has told its supporters that

any academic, student or company connected to Oxford is a legitimate

target, irrespective of whether they are involved in animal

research.

 

<<SNIP>>>

>

> Peter H

[Guest guest]

Hi Shari~

 

Oh I do agree, terror in any form is not right.

 

But as you said, it does give the rest of us peaceful protestors a

very bad name. And unfortunately many judge a book by it's cover. So

if this is their first experience with a protest, it may be the last

chance they ever give any of us.

 

Thx for the great thoughts!

 

Nikki

 

, " Shari@B... " <shari@b...> wrote:

>

> And what's happening to the animals is not terror? Dunno 'bout you

but I

> wouldn't like to be in a cage on my own, only having it unlocked

so I could

> have evil things done to me that hurt and tortured me. The animals

are the

> ones that are terrorised the most. I reckon everyone who is for

vivisection

> ought to go and live in a cage in a laboratory for a month and

have the same

> things done to them that they want done to a monkey or rat or

fish. Then

> they'd realise what it's like for those animals.

>

> Personally, I'm against terrorism and violence or intimidation of

any form -

> which means it shouldn't happen to humans and it shouldn't happen

to

> animals. I'm for all the humane research that organisations like

Dr Hadwen

> Trust are using. I'd never do anything that the ALF type people

might do. I

> will go on a peaceful march that's been organised, I will post on

my website

> that I'm against vivisection, that sort of thing, but that's it. I

have been

> on a couple of the national Oxford demos to make my stand about

vivisection.

> I was at the last one - where we found out that the police had

gone against

> their agreement to let everyone walk up to the lab building. The

police

> stood in a line and wouldn't let anyone cross. That's why SPEAK

have gotten

> angry. They agreed on the route of the march with the police and

then the

> police backed down from their agreement. SPEAK write on their

site,

> www.speakcampaigns.org.uk what happened that day. I didn't see any

of it

> really. I was with my friend in the middle of the pack, just doing

the

> march, further back. But it was unfair that they should change the

agreement

> so we couldn't go right to the lab for the 1 minute silence that

usually

> takes place.

>

> I personally don't see why Oxford Uni can't put that money into

humane

> research. We're never going to find proper cures for anything

abusing

> animals all the time, when they're so different to humans. This

isn't the

> 17th century. We should be moving on into the future, using new

methods, not

> living in the dark age.

>

> I know what you mean though. Things like the violence that a

handful of

> people might partake in also gives everyone who's into animal

rights a bad

> name, because then people think that all animal activists are like

that -

> when they're not. I don't know... If only the government and the

lab would

> actually listen more to SPEAK and start doing humane research.

That would

> seriously be the answer for everyone.

>

> Shari

>

>

> " earthstrm " <earthstorm@c...> wrote:

>

> Sounds like terror to me

>

> Nikki

[Guest guest]

Hi Shari

 

I had heard that the police went back on their agreement. It seems

like an action on the police part to stir up trouble amongst the few

more volatile protesters, and therefore cause trouble, which, as you

say, reflects badly on all the peaceful protesters.

 

Jo

 

, " Shari@B... " <shari@b...> wrote:

>

> And what's happening to the animals is not terror? Dunno 'bout you

but I

> wouldn't like to be in a cage on my own, only having it unlocked so

I could

> have evil things done to me that hurt and tortured me. The animals

are the

> ones that are terrorised the most. I reckon everyone who is for

vivisection

> ought to go and live in a cage in a laboratory for a month and have

the same

> things done to them that they want done to a monkey or rat or fish.

Then

> they'd realise what it's like for those animals.

>

> Personally, I'm against terrorism and violence or intimidation of

any form -

> which means it shouldn't happen to humans and it shouldn't happen

to

> animals. I'm for all the humane research that organisations like Dr

Hadwen

> Trust are using. I'd never do anything that the ALF type people

might do. I

> will go on a peaceful march that's been organised, I will post on

my website

> that I'm against vivisection, that sort of thing, but that's it. I

have been

> on a couple of the national Oxford demos to make my stand about

vivisection.

> I was at the last one - where we found out that the police had gone

against

> their agreement to let everyone walk up to the lab building. The

police

> stood in a line and wouldn't let anyone cross. That's why SPEAK

have gotten

> angry. They agreed on the route of the march with the police and

then the

> police backed down from their agreement. SPEAK write on their site,

> www.speakcampaigns.org.uk what happened that day. I didn't see any

of it

> really. I was with my friend in the middle of the pack, just doing

the

> march, further back. But it was unfair that they should change the

agreement

> so we couldn't go right to the lab for the 1 minute silence that

usually

> takes place.

>

> I personally don't see why Oxford Uni can't put that money into

humane

> research. We're never going to find proper cures for anything

abusing

> animals all the time, when they're so different to humans. This

isn't the

> 17th century. We should be moving on into the future, using new

methods, not

> living in the dark age.

>

> I know what you mean though. Things like the violence that a

handful of

> people might partake in also gives everyone who's into animal

rights a bad

> name, because then people think that all animal activists are like

that -

> when they're not. I don't know... If only the government and the

lab would

> actually listen more to SPEAK and start doing humane research. That

would

> seriously be the answer for everyone.

>

> Shari

>

>

> " earthstrm " <earthstorm@c...> wrote:

>

> Sounds like terror to me

>

> Nikki

>

>

> , peter hurd <swpgh01@t...> wrote:

> >

> > Is it just me or does this make no sense at all, what sort of

> cedibility does ALF think it is going to get from an action like

> this?

> > The Vlley Vegan................

> >

> > ANIMAL activists have for the first time threatened violence

> against all staff and students at Oxford university over its plans

> for a £20m animal research laboratory. In a posting on an internet

> site, the Animal Liberation Front (ALF) has told its supporters that

> any academic, student or company connected to Oxford is a legitimate

> target, irrespective of whether they are involved in animal

> research.

>

> <<SNIP>>>

> >

> > Peter H

>

[Guest guest]

hi jo,

 

here in the US, violence is censored, if it is real. not in the movies.

for instance, they won't ever show the violence of Bush's war which

has killed

innocent children in Iraq.

 

but they will show tons, of violence in the movies, because it's just

a movie.

 

zqixofrenic?

 

if these labs are so innocent, why don't they show pictures of what it

is that they are doing exactly to these animals, and let the public

decide.

 

or course that will never happen.

 

 

 

, " jo " <jo.heartwork@g...> wrote:

>

> I cannot see where it says that ALF have advocated violence. The

first sentence mentions violence, but that is not from the ALF - it is

from the reporter. I would imagine the action that is being asked for

is intimidating but not violent. I think the report is done very

cleverly - it mentions violence to begin with, and then people will

think that the rest of the report is related to violence.

>

> Jo

> -

> peter hurd

>

> Monday, January 30, 2006 7:19 PM

> Re: ALF threatens all out war against Oxford

students

>

>

> Sorry to hear that you are confused! must be your age! ( sorry!)

> I have no problem supporting direct action as lt is against the

company running/financing the barbaric practises such as animal

experimentation, as long as it does`nt directly affect anyone else. So

burn down the labs if you like ( they are probably insured anyway ),

as long as it poses no threat to any innocent bystanders or their

property.

> Threats of personal harm or physical violence I would never

condone. Why these nutters should threaten people who attend the

university just to learn is beyond me!

>

> The Valley Vegan............

>

> jo <jo.heartwork@g...> wrote:

> I'm confused. I thought you thought there was a place for

burning down laboratories etc.

>

> I personally do not agree with anything illegal or violent -

although I can't see where in this article it stated any violence.

>

> Jo

> -

> peter hurd

>

> Sunday, January 29, 2006 12:37 PM

> Re: ALF threatens all out war against

Oxford students

>

>

> Is it just me or does this make no sense at all, what sort of

cedibility does ALF think it is going to get from an action like this?

> The Vlley Vegan................

>

[Guest guest]

I agree with your point. Many years ago, in the UK, they did show

scientific 'research'. I remember seeing one programme where some

male small mammal was growing a foetus in his abdomen - this was 35

years ago! Now they do not show anything that goes on. They know

that if they did even more people would question what they are doing.

 

Jo

 

, " Anouk Sickler " <zurumato@e...>

wrote:

>

> hi jo,

>

> here in the US, violence is censored, if it is real. not in the

movies.

> for instance, they won't ever show the violence of Bush's war which

> has killed

> innocent children in Iraq.

>

> but they will show tons, of violence in the movies, because it's

just

> a movie.

>

> zqixofrenic?

>

> if these labs are so innocent, why don't they show pictures of what

it

> is that they are doing exactly to these animals, and let the public

> decide.

>

> or course that will never happen.

>

>

>

> , " jo " <jo.heartwork@g...> wrote:

> >

> > I cannot see where it says that ALF have advocated violence. The

> first sentence mentions violence, but that is not from the ALF - it

is

> from the reporter. I would imagine the action that is being asked

for

> is intimidating but not violent. I think the report is done very

> cleverly - it mentions violence to begin with, and then people will

> think that the rest of the report is related to violence.

> >

> > Jo

> > -

> > peter hurd

> >

> > Monday, January 30, 2006 7:19 PM

> > Re: ALF threatens all out war against

Oxford

> students

> >

> >

> > Sorry to hear that you are confused! must be your age! ( sorry!)

> > I have no problem supporting direct action as lt is against the

> company running/financing the barbaric practises such as animal

> experimentation, as long as it does`nt directly affect anyone else.

So

> burn down the labs if you like ( they are probably insured anyway ),

> as long as it poses no threat to any innocent bystanders or their

> property.

> > Threats of personal harm or physical violence I would never

> condone. Why these nutters should threaten people who attend the

> university just to learn is beyond me!

> >

> > The Valley Vegan............

> >

> > jo <jo.heartwork@g...> wrote:

> > I'm confused. I thought you thought there was a place for

> burning down laboratories etc.

> >

> > I personally do not agree with anything illegal or violent -

> although I can't see where in this article it stated any violence.

> >

> > Jo

> > -

> > peter hurd

> >

> > Sunday, January 29, 2006 12:37 PM

> > Re: ALF threatens all out war against

> Oxford students

> >

> >

> > Is it just me or does this make no sense at all, what sort

of

> cedibility does ALF think it is going to get from an action like

this?

> > The Vlley Vegan................

> >

>