Guest guest Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 Did anyone read the latest VegNews? There were two interesting articles regarding politics and vegetarian/vegan living. The common belief is that vegetarians are "progressive"/leftist in their politics. But from what I read, it is not necessarily the case. The first article, in "Meat the Press", Mickey Z speaks about a fellow progressive, Tim Wise, at www.Counterpunch.com (you can look up the article there) who wrote a scathing article against animal activists called "Animal Whites". He was critical because our movement is mostly made up of caucausians but he did not look at the values behind it. Tim Wise is a self-described progressive, but he is not that supportive of us, at least us caucasian women who follow the cause. The article goes on to list some prominent "progressives" who deride the AR movement and veganism...namely Michael Moore and Ward Churchill. I know there are more because in my own personal life I know of many progressives who don't care at all for farm animals or veg eating. Then later on in the magazine, in the news section, they wrote of a poll asking vegans/vegetarians what their political standing is. According to this poll, ONE HALF are Republican!!! Shocking, I know. This is not the first place I had read this. After reading this I thought it would be good if this movement separates politics from the AR movement. First, we should be open to anyone who cares about animals even if, gasp!, they don't share our politics. Secondly, I think we should not see leftism as being compatible with AR because it really isn't. Many, many leftists do not care about animals, period. They are more wrapped up in class and race and economic issues...if they are Marxist in thinking, good treatment of animals is not a priority. And we should also remember, the many Christians who are very attracted to the veg lifestyle (notice all the Christian veg there are) and be welcoming to them because they have good hearts. And lastly, we should separate left/right politics from the movement and just concentrate on animal issues...don't assume everyone feels the same way we do. I know from my personal life...I know many leftists and environmentalists who have little or no feeling for the pain and suffering of animals. I also know more conservative types who do, and feel it's immoral to treat them unkindly. I think we should not assume that AR people are of a certain political stripe and welcome all, regardless of their politics or religion. Kristina Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 Personally - I have never found any one group to have the same set of values as any other group, or all members of one group to have the same values. I see no reason to think that all lefties would be veggie/vegan any more than I would expect them all to be Christian or Pagan. I also know Marxists (one of your generalisations) who are veggies and care about animals. I'm not knowledgeable about US politics but here I would not expect veggie/veganism to be found solely in Labour, Conservative or Liberal - though I guess the general conception is that it is more likely amongst the Liberals. There are good people in all these parties, and bad. Generalisations can never be made, although it is a human frailty. You will find good and bad (from your point of view) in all groups and all groups will have people amongst their number who agree with one/some of your ideals or none at all. It is most unusual to find lots of people who have exactly the same set of ethics, even amongst friends. I find it best to connect with the best in any one person, unless I feel they are so evil that I don't want any connection. Jo , lv2breathe wrote: > > Did anyone read the latest VegNews? There were two interesting articles > regarding politics and vegetarian/vegan living. > > The common belief is that vegetarians are " progressive " /leftist in their > politics. But from what I read, it is not necessarily the case. > > The first article, in " Meat the Press " , Mickey Z speaks about a fellow > progressive, Tim Wise, at _www.Counterpunch.com_ (http://www.Counterpunch.com) > (you can look up the article there) who wrote a scathing article against animal > activists called " Animal Whites " . He was critical because our movement is > mostly made up of caucausians but he did not look at the values behind it. > Tim Wise is a self-described progressive, but he is not that supportive of us, > at least us caucasian women who follow the cause. The article goes on to > list some prominent " progressives " who deride the AR movement and > veganism...namely Michael Moore and Ward Churchill. I know there are more because in my > own personal life I know of many progressives who don't care at all for farm > animals or veg eating. > > Then later on in the magazine, in the news section, they wrote of a poll > asking vegans/vegetarians what their political standing is. According to this > poll, ONE HALF are Republican!!! Shocking, I know. This is not the first > place I had read this. > > After reading this I thought it would be good if this movement separates > politics from the AR movement. First, we should be open to anyone who cares > about animals even if, gasp!, they don't share our politics. Secondly, I think > we should not see leftism as being compatible with AR because it really > isn't. Many, many leftists do not care about animals, period. They are more > wrapped up in class and race and economic issues...if they are Marxist in thinking, > good treatment of animals is not a priority. And we should also remember, > the many Christians who are very attracted to the veg lifestyle (notice all > the Christian veg there are) and be welcoming to them because they > have good hearts. And lastly, we should separate left/right politics from > the movement and just concentrate on animal issues...don't assume everyone > feels the same way we do. > > I know from my personal life...I know many leftists and environmentalists > who have little or no feeling for the pain and suffering of animals. I also > know more conservative types who do, and feel it's immoral to treat them > unkindly. I think we should not assume that AR people are of a certain political > stripe and welcome all, regardless of their politics or religion. > > > Kristina > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 I I think it's good you are not like this. My post was not directed toward vegans such as yourself, but mostly toward those vegans who do assume we are all the same and have little or no tolerance for Christians or conservatives. I meet them all the time and think they are not doing the movement any favors by being this way. Kristina In a message dated 2/17/06 9:58:45 AM Pacific Standard Time, writes: Message: 18 Fri, 17 Feb 2006 07:49:18 -0000 "heartwerk" <jo.heartworkRe: Veg = "progressive"??? Nope, not necessarilyPersonally - I have never found any one group to have the same set of values as any other group, or all members of one group to have the same values. I see no reason to think that all lefties would be veggie/vegan any more than I would expect them all to be Christian or Pagan. I also know Marxists (one of your generalisations) who are veggies and care about animals. I'm not knowledgeable about US politics but here I would not expect veggie/veganism to be found solely in Labour, Conservative or Liberal - though I guess the general conception is that it is more likely amongst the Liberals. There are good people in all these parties, and bad.Generalisations can never be made, although it is a human frailty. You will find good and bad (from your point of view) in all groups and all groups will have people amongst their number who agree with one/some of your ideals or none at all. It is most unusual to find lots of people who have exactly the same set of ethics, even amongst friends.I find it best to connect with the best in any one person, unless I feel they are so evil that I don't want any connection.Jo , lv2breathe wrote:>> Did anyone read the latest VegNews? There were two interesting articles > regarding politics and vegetarian/vegan living.> > The common belief is that vegetarians are "progressive"/leftist in their > politics. But from what I read, it is not necessarily the case.> > The first article, in "Meat the Press", Mickey Z speaks about a fellow > progressive, Tim Wise, at _www.Counterpunch.com_ (http://www.Counterpunch.com) > (you can look up the article there) who wrote a scathing article against animal > activists called "Animal Whites". He was critical because our movement is > mostly made up of caucausians but he did not look at the values behind it. > Tim Wise is a self-described progressive, but he is not that supportive of us, > at least us caucasian women who follow the cause. The article goes on to > list some prominent "progressives" who deride the AR movement and > veganism...namely Michael Moore and Ward Churchill. I know there are more because in my > own personal life I know of many progressives who don't care at all for farm > animals or veg eating.> > Then later on in the magazine, in the news section, they wrote of a poll > asking vegans/vegetarians what their political standing is. According to this > poll, ONE HALF are Republican!!! Shocking, I know. This is not the first > place I had read this.> > After reading this I thought it would be good if this movement separates > politics from the AR movement. First, we should be open to anyone who cares > about animals even if, gasp!, they don't share our politics. Secondly, I think > we should not see leftism as being compatible with AR because it really > isn't. Many, many leftists do not care about animals, period. They are more > wrapped up in class and race and economic issues...if they are Marxist in thinking, > good treatment of animals is not a priority. And we should also remember, > the many Christians who are very attracted to the veg lifestyle (notice all > the Christian veg there are) and be welcoming to them because they > have good hearts. And lastly, we should separate left/right politics from > the movement and just concentrate on animal issues...don't assume everyone > feels the same way we do. > > I know from my personal life...I know many leftists and environmentalists > who have little or no feeling for the pain and suffering of animals. I also > know more conservative types who do, and feel it's immoral to treat them > unkindly. I think we should not assume that AR people are of a certain political > stripe and welcome all, regardless of their politics or religion. > > > Kristina> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 http://www.emagazine.com/view/?142 The Case Against MeatEvidence Shows that Our Meat-Based Diet is Bad for the Environment, Aggravates Global Hunger, Brutalizes Animals and Compromises Our Healthby Jim MotavalliThere has never been a better time for environmentalists to become vegetarians. Evidence of the environmental impacts of a meat-based diet is piling up at the same time its health effects are becoming better known. Meanwhile, full-scale industrialized factory farming—which allows diseases to spread quickly as animals are raised in close confinement—has given rise to recent, highly publicized epidemics of meat-borne illnesses. At presstime, the first discovery of mad cow disease in a Tokyo suburb caused beef prices to plummet in Japan and many people to stop eating meat. "NOTICE: Due to Presidential Executive Orders, the National Security Agency may have read this email without warning, warrant, or notice. They may do this without any judicial or legislative oversight. You have no recourse nor protection save to call for the impeachment of the current President." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 Yeah, well, anyone who has met a new group of vegans and spent any time talking to them will realise, we aint all the same. There are pricks in all walks of life............. The Valley Vegan.............lv2breathe wrote: I I think it's good you are not like this. My post was not directed toward vegans such as yourself, but mostly toward those vegans who do assume we are all the same and have little or no tolerance for Christians or conservatives. I meet them all the time and think they are not doing the movement any favors by being this way. Kristina In a message dated 2/17/06 9:58:45 AM Pacific Standard Time, writes: Message: 18 Fri, 17 Feb 2006 07:49:18 -0000 "heartwerk" <jo.heartworkRe: Veg = "progressive"??? Nope, not necessarilyPersonally - I have never found any one group to have the same set of values as any other group, or all members of one group to have the same values. I see no reason to think that all lefties would be veggie/vegan any more than I would expect them all to be Christian or Pagan. I also know Marxists (one of your generalisations) who are veggies and care about animals. I'm not knowledgeable about US politics but here I would not expect veggie/veganism to be found solely in Labour, Conservative or Liberal - though I guess the general conception is that it is more likely amongst the Liberals. There are good people in all these parties, and bad.Generalisations can never be made, although it is a human frailty. You will find good and bad (from your point of view) in all groups and all groups will have people amongst their number who agree with one/some of your ideals or none at all. It is most unusual to find lots of people who have exactly the same set of ethics, even amongst friends.I find it best to connect with the best in any one person, unless I feel they are so evil that I don't want any connection.Jo , lv2breathe wrote:>> Did anyone read the latest VegNews? There were two interesting articles > regarding politics and vegetarian/vegan living.> > The common belief is that vegetarians are "progressive"/leftist in their > politics. But from what I read, it is not necessarily the case.> > The first article, in "Meat the Press", Mickey Z speaks about a fellow > progressive, Tim Wise, at _www.Counterpunch.com_ (http://www.Counterpunch.com) > (you can look up the article there) who wrote a scathing article against animal > activists called "Animal Whites". He was critical because our movement is > mostly made up of caucausians but he did not look at the values behind it. > Tim Wise is a self-described progressive, but he is not that supportive of us, > at least us caucasian women who follow the cause. The article goes on to > list some prominent "progressives" who deride the AR movement and > veganism...namely Michael Moore and Ward Churchill. I know there are more because in my > own personal life I know of many progressives who don't care at all for farm > animals or veg eating.> > Then later on in the magazine, in the news section, they wrote of a poll > asking vegans/vegetarians what their political standing is. According to this > poll, ONE HALF are Republican!!! Shocking, I know. This is not the first > place I had read this.> > After reading this I thought it would be good if this movement separates > politics from the AR movement. First, we should be open to anyone who cares > about animals even if, gasp!, they don't share our politics. Secondly, I think > we should not see leftism as being compatible with AR because it really > isn't. Many, many leftists do not care about animals, period. They are more > wrapped up in class and race and economic issues...if they are Marxist in thinking, > good treatment of animals is not a priority. And we should also remember, > the many Christians who are very attracted to the veg lifestyle (notice all > the Christian veg there are) and be welcoming to them because they > have good hearts. And lastly, we should separate left/right politics from > the movement and just concentrate on animal issues...don't assume everyone > feels the same way we do. > > I know from my personal life...I know many leftists and environmentalists > who have little or no feeling for the pain and suffering of animals. I also > know more conservative types who do, and feel it's immoral to treat them > unkindly. I think we should not assume that AR people are of a certain political > stripe and welcome all, regardless of their politics or religion. > > > Kristina> Peter H Messenger NEW - crystal clear PC to PC calling worldwide with voicemail Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 LOL - we had that experience with 'the London Vegans' when we went to meet them for their monthly dinner. One person said hello - and that was it - no other conversation. It was a bit embarrassing really. Not the way to encourage people into a lifestyle. Jo - peter hurd Friday, February 17, 2006 7:39 PM Re: Re: Veg = "progressive"??? Nope, not necessarily Yeah, well, anyone who has met a new group of vegans and spent any time talking to them will realise, we aint all the same. There are pricks in all walks of life............. The Valley Vegan............. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 Are you saying Christians and people with more conservative values are "pricks"? See, this is the type of attitude I am talking about. It's not very tolerant or open minded. If one is, they would see there are indeed fine people who call themselves Christian and/or have some conservative values. I have met PLENTY of progressive "pricks". Plenty. Kristina In a message dated 2/17/06 4:09:56 PM Pacific Standard Time, writes: Message: 10 Fri, 17 Feb 2006 19:39:36 +0000 (GMT) peter hurd <swpgh01Re: Re: Veg = "progressive"??? Nope, not necessarilyYeah, well, anyone who has met a new group of vegans and spent any time talking to them will realise, we aint all the same. There are pricks in all walks of life............. The Valley Vegan.............lv2breathe wrote: I I think it's good you are not like this. My post was not directed toward vegans such as yourself, but mostly toward those vegans who do assume we are all the same and have little or no tolerance for Christians or conservatives. I meet them all the time and think they are not doing the movement any favors by being this way. Kristina In a message dated 2/17/06 9:58:45 AM Pacific Standard Time, writes: Message: 18 Fri, 17 Feb 2006 07:49:18 -0000 "heartwerk" <jo.heartworkRe: Veg = "progressive"??? Nope, not necessarilyPersonally - I have never found any one group to have the same set of values as any other group, or all members of one group to have the same values. I see no reason to think that all lefties would be veggie/vegan any more than I would expect them all to be Christian or Pagan. I also know Marxists (one of your generalisations) who are veggies and care about animals. I'm not knowledgeable about US politics but here I would not expect veggie/veganism to be found solely in Labour, Conservative or Liberal - though I guess the general conception is that it is more likely amongst the Liberals. There are good people in all these parties, and bad.Generalisations can never be made, although it is a human frailty. You will find good and bad (from your point of view) in all groups and all groups will have people amongst their number who agree with one/some of your ideals or none at all. It is most unusual to find lots of people who have exactly the same set of ethics, even amongst friends.I find it best to connect with the best in any one person, unless I feel they are so evil that I don't want any connection.Jo , lv2breathe wrote:>> Did anyone read the latest VegNews? There were two interesting articles > regarding politics and vegetarian/vegan living.> > The common belief is that vegetarians are "progressive"/leftist in their > politics. But from what I read, it is not necessarily the case.> > The first article, in "Meat the Press", Mickey Z speaks about a fellow > progressive, Tim Wise, at _www.Counterpunch.com_ (http://www.Counterpunch.com) > (you can look up the article there) who wrote a scathing article against animal > activists called "Animal Whites". He was critical because our movement is > mostly made up of caucausians but he did not look at the values behind it. > Tim Wise is a self-described progressive, but he is not that supportive of us, > at least us caucasian women who follow the cause. The article goes on to > list some prominent "progressives" who deride the AR movement and > veganism...namely Michael Moore and Ward Churchill. I know there are more because in my > own personal life I know of many progressives who don't care at all for farm > animals or veg eating.> > Then later on in the magazine, in the news section, they wrote of a poll > asking vegans/vegetarians what their political standing is. According to this > poll, ONE HALF are Republican!!! Shocking, I know. This is not the first > place I had read this.> > After reading this I thought it would be good if this movement separates > politics from the AR movement. First, we should be open to anyone who cares > about animals even if, gasp!, they don't share our politics. Secondly, I think > we should not see leftism as being compatible with AR because it really > isn't. Many, many leftists do not care about animals, period. They are more > wrapped up in class and race and economic issues...if they are Marxist in thinking, > good treatment of animals is not a priority. And we should also remember, > the many Christians who are very attracted to the veg lifestyle (notice all > the Christian veg there are) and be welcoming to them because they > have good hearts. And lastly, we should separate left/right politics from > the movement and just concentrate on animal issues...don't assume everyone > feels the same way we do. > > I know from my personal life...I know many leftists and environmentalists > who have little or no feeling for the pain and suffering of animals. I also > know more conservative types who do, and feel it's immoral to treat them > unkindly. I think we should not assume that AR people are of a certain political > stripe and welcome all, regardless of their politics or religion. > > > Kristina> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 jo wrote: > LOL - we had that experience with 'the London Vegans' when we went to meet > them for their monthly dinner. One person said hello - and that was it - > no other conversation. It was a bit embarrassing really. Not the way to > encourage people into a lifestyle. That's why some of us don't try to encourage people into a lifestyle. serene Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 Are you saying that if you were a member of a group that advertised itself so that other vegans could come along, you would not be friendly when they arrivede? Jo , serene wrote: > > jo wrote: > > > LOL - we had that experience with 'the London Vegans' when we went to meet > > them for their monthly dinner. One person said hello - and that was it - > > no other conversation. It was a bit embarrassing really. Not the way to > > encourage people into a lifestyle. > > That's why some of us don't try to encourage people into a lifestyle. > > serene > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 jo > Are you saying that if you were a member of a group that advertised > itself so that other vegans could come along, you would not be > friendly when they arrivede? Nope. I'm not saying that at all. I'm saying I'm friendly to people as a matter of course, and not to try to convince them to be vegans. serene Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 18, 2006 Report Share Posted February 18, 2006 When I met up with the EatoutveganWales bunch before Christmas, they were such un insular unfriendly bunch, it was very dissapointing. Not at all what you would expect from one minority group meeting other like minded minorities.Sad really, but hey I`ve said it before and I`ll say it again, you get pricks in all walks of life, just dont let them get you down............ The Valley Vegan...........heartwerk <jo.heartwork wrote: Are you saying that if you were a member of a group that advertiseditself so that other vegans could come along, you would not befriendly when they arrivede?Jo , serene wrote:>> jo wrote:> > > LOL - we had that experience with 'the London Vegans' when we wentto meet> > them for their monthly dinner. One person said hello - and thatwas it -> > no other conversation. It was a bit embarrassing really. Not theway to> > encourage people into a lifestyle.> > That's why some of us don't try to encourage people into a lifestyle.> > serene>To send an email to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 20, 2006 Report Share Posted February 20, 2006 Hi Kristina I think you have totally misread Peter's (VV) email. I think you put your hackles up before you read it properly. I think we all seem to be agreed that there are good and bad people in any given group, and that all groups, including Christians have pricks amongst their number. Jo , lv2breathe wrote: > > > Are you saying Christians and people with more conservative values are > " pricks " ? > > See, this is the type of attitude I am talking about. It's not very > tolerant or open minded. If one is, they would see there are indeed fine people who > call themselves Christian and/or have some conservative values. > > I have met PLENTY of progressive " pricks " . Plenty. > > Kristina > > In a message dated 2/17/06 4:09:56 PM Pacific Standard Time, > writes: > > Message: 10 > Fri, 17 Feb 2006 19:39:36 +0000 (GMT) > peter hurd <swpgh01 > Re: Re: Veg = " progressive " ??? Nope, not necessarily > > Yeah, well, anyone who has met a new group of vegans and spent any time > talking to them will realise, we aint all the same. There are pricks in all walks > of life............. > > The Valley Vegan............. > > lv2breathe wrote: > I I think it's good you are not like this. My post was not directed toward > vegans such as yourself, but mostly toward those vegans who do assume we are > all the same and have little or no tolerance for Christians or conservatives. > I meet them all the time and think they are not doing the movement any > favors by being this way. > > Kristina > > In a message dated 2/17/06 9:58:45 AM Pacific Standard Time, > writes: > Message: 18 > Fri, 17 Feb 2006 07:49:18 -0000 > " heartwerk " <jo.heartwork > Re: Veg = " progressive " ??? Nope, not necessarily > > Personally - I have never found any one group to have the same set of > values as any other group, or all members of one group to have the > same values. I see no reason to think that all lefties would be > veggie/vegan any more than I would expect them all to be Christian or > Pagan. I also know Marxists (one of your generalisations) who are > veggies and care about animals. I'm not knowledgeable about US > politics but here I would not expect veggie/veganism to be found > solely in Labour, Conservative or Liberal - though I guess the > general conception is that it is more likely amongst the Liberals. > There are good people in all these parties, and bad. > > Generalisations can never be made, although it is a human frailty. > You will find good and bad (from your point of view) in all groups > and all groups will have people amongst their number who agree with > one/some of your ideals or none at all. > > It is most unusual to find lots of people who have exactly the same > set of ethics, even amongst friends. > > I find it best to connect with the best in any one person, unless I > feel they are so evil that I don't want any connection. > > Jo > > , lv2breathe@ wrote: > > > > Did anyone read the latest VegNews? There were two interesting > articles > > regarding politics and vegetarian/vegan living. > > > > The common belief is that vegetarians are " progressive " /leftist in > their > > politics. But from what I read, it is not necessarily the case. > > > > The first article, in " Meat the Press " , Mickey Z speaks about a > fellow > > progressive, Tim Wise, at _www.Counterpunch.com_ > (http://www.Counterpunch.com) > > (you can look up the article there) who wrote a scathing article > against animal > > activists called " Animal Whites " . He was critical because our > movement is > > mostly made up of caucausians but he did not look at the values > behind it. > > Tim Wise is a self-described progressive, but he is not that > supportive of us, > > at least us caucasian women who follow the cause. The article > goes on to > > list some prominent " progressives " who deride the AR movement and > > veganism...namely Michael Moore and Ward Churchill. I know there > are more because in my > > own personal life I know of many progressives who don't care at > all for farm > > animals or veg eating. > > > > Then later on in the magazine, in the news section, they wrote of > a poll > > asking vegans/vegetarians what their political standing is. > According to this > > poll, ONE HALF are Republican!!! Shocking, I know. This is not > the first > > place I had read this. > > > > After reading this I thought it would be good if this movement > separates > > politics from the AR movement. First, we should be open to anyone > who cares > > about animals even if, gasp!, they don't share our politics. > Secondly, I think > > we should not see leftism as being compatible with AR because it > really > > isn't. Many, many leftists do not care about animals, period. They > are more > > wrapped up in class and race and economic issues...if they are > Marxist in thinking, > > good treatment of animals is not a priority. And we should also > remember, > > the many Christians who are very attracted to the veg lifestyle > (notice all > > the Christian veg there are) and be welcoming to them > because they > > have good hearts. And lastly, we should separate left/right > politics from > > the movement and just concentrate on animal issues...don't assume > everyone > > feels the same way we do. > > > > I know from my personal life...I know many leftists and > environmentalists > > who have little or no feeling for the pain and suffering of > animals. I also > > know more conservative types who do, and feel it's immoral to > treat them > > unkindly. I think we should not assume that AR people are of a > certain political > > stripe and welcome all, regardless of their politics or religion. > > > > > > Kristina > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 20, 2006 Report Share Posted February 20, 2006 I think you misunderstood what I was saying, I was not talking about any specifics , just that there are pricks in every walk of life. If you havent met any in the circles you bother with, then you are lucky.It aint about being tolerant, its observation. Apart from being dissapointed by these people, I could give a donkeys dangler! as long as they dont bother any one. Unfortunately my particular observation stemmed from meeting up with a local group of vegans who were so insular and instead of welcoming me and my wife to their meeting made us feel inwanted, despite my best efforts to talk to them..........ah well, no great loss for me, but sad to see a minority like us not helping and supporting each other. O.K.? So please dont take offence ( or even the gate) The Valley Vegan...........lv2breathe wrote: Are you saying Christians and people with more conservative values are "pricks"? See, this is the type of attitude I am talking about. It's not very tolerant or open minded. If one is, they would see there are indeed fine people who call themselves Christian and/or have some conservative values. I have met PLENTY of progressive "pricks". Plenty. Kristina In a message dated 2/17/06 4:09:56 PM Pacific Standard Time, writes: Message: 10 Fri, 17 Feb 2006 19:39:36 +0000 (GMT) peter hurd <swpgh01Re: Re: Veg = "progressive"??? Nope, not necessarilyYeah, well, anyone who has met a new group of vegans and spent any time talking to them will realise, we aint all the same. There are pricks in all walks of life............. The Valley Vegan.............lv2breathe wrote: I I think it's good you are not like this. My post was not directed toward vegans such as yourself, but mostly toward those vegans who do assume we are all the same and have little or no tolerance for Christians or conservatives. I meet them all the time and think they are not doing the movement any favors by being this way. Kristina In a message dated 2/17/06 9:58:45 AM Pacific Standard Time, writes: Message: 18 Fri, 17 Feb 2006 07:49:18 -0000 "heartwerk" <jo.heartworkRe: Veg = "progressive"??? Nope, not necessarilyPersonally - I have never found any one group to have the same set of values as any other group, or all members of one group to have the same values. I see no reason to think that all lefties would be veggie/vegan any more than I would expect them all to be Christian or Pagan. I also know Marxists (one of your generalisations) who are veggies and care about animals. I'm not knowledgeable about US politics but here I would not expect veggie/veganism to be found solely in Labour, Conservative or Liberal - though I guess the general conception is that it is more likely amongst the Liberals. There are good people in all these parties, and bad.Generalisations can never be made, although it is a human frailty. You will find good and bad (from your point of view) in all groups and all groups will have people amongst their number who agree with one/some of your ideals or none at all. It is most unusual to find lots of people who have exactly the same set of ethics, even amongst friends.I find it best to connect with the best in any one person, unless I feel they are so evil that I don't want any connection.Jo , lv2breathe wrote:>> Did anyone read the latest VegNews? There were two interesting articles > regarding politics and vegetarian/vegan living.> > The common belief is that vegetarians are "progressive"/leftist in their > politics. But from what I read, it is not necessarily the case.> > The first article, in "Meat the Press", Mickey Z speaks about a fellow > progressive, Tim Wise, at _www.Counterpunch.com_ (http://www.Counterpunch.com) > (you can look up the article there) who wrote a scathing article against animal > activists called "Animal Whites". He was critical because our movement is > mostly made up of caucausians but he did not look at the values behind it. > Tim Wise is a self-described progressive, but he is not that supportive of us, > at least us caucasian women who follow the cause. The article goes on to > list some prominent "progressives" who deride the AR movement and > veganism...namely Michael Moore and Ward Churchill. I know there are more because in my > own personal life I know of many progressives who don't care at all for farm > animals or veg eating.> > Then later on in the magazine, in the news section, they wrote of a poll > asking vegans/vegetarians what their political standing is. According to this > poll, ONE HALF are Republican!!! Shocking, I know. This is not the first > place I had read this.> > After reading this I thought it would be good if this movement separates > politics from the AR movement. First, we should be open to anyone who cares > about animals even if, gasp!, they don't share our politics. Secondly, I think > we should not see leftism as being compatible with AR because it really > isn't. Many, many leftists do not care about animals, period. They are more > wrapped up in class and race and economic issues...if they are Marxist in thinking, > good treatment of animals is not a priority. And we should also remember, > the many Christians who are very attracted to the veg lifestyle (notice all > the Christian veg there are) and be welcoming to them because they > have good hearts. And lastly, we should separate left/right politics from > the movement and just concentrate on animal issues...don't assume everyone > feels the same way we do. > > I know from my personal life...I know many leftists and environmentalists > who have little or no feeling for the pain and suffering of animals. I also > know more conservative types who do, and feel it's immoral to treat them > unkindly. I think we should not assume that AR people are of a certain political > stripe and welcome all, regardless of their politics or religion. > > > Kristina> To send an email to - Peter H Photos – NEW, now offering a quality print service from just 8p a photo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 6, 2006 Report Share Posted March 6, 2006 hi Kristina, I agree, veganism is everywhere and in all cultures and class levels. Not just upper class whites. sensitive people are born everywhere. like a flower in the mud. I think that you can find vegans in trailer thrash parks. and access to money is not necesary equal to compassion. as evidence in the Foie Gras and Caviar that rich people eat. In argentina and Uruguay and Brazil , there is a large number of young angry men and women in their 20's and 30's rebelling against the enormous cattle and milk industries of their country. most of these young kids do not have any money. what they lack in money they surpass in conviction and fight. I myself come from a poor background and I am a hispanic female. I have become vegan, through self education and admiration from other people that I respect regardless of class or color. There are some christians that are for the environment, but it is hard to disassociated them from Cheney and Bush. More tolerance might be need for these christians. , lv2breathe wrote: > > > I I think it's good you are not like this. My post was not directed toward > vegans such as yourself, but mostly toward those vegans who do assume we are > all the same and have little or no tolerance for Christians or conservatives. > I meet them all the time and think they are not doing the movement any > favors by being this way. > > Kristina > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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