Guest guest Posted May 16, 2006 Report Share Posted May 16, 2006 i am sorry to offend our leaders and others, accept my apologies. some policies hurt. I must be more positive. leaders have a tough job with so much depending on their leadership. we are all concerned about the future of nature and ourselves. Can there be peaceful solutions to all wars? A set of values by which we all could live by, reducing the harm that is happening? What would it take for a world amnesty? Who could organise it? What we spend on war can be used on making the world better place to live? the kings of this world and the people could negotiate a path forward together>>>> could this happen? i like prince charles. he would be a thoughtful man to ask? peace colin ps. i am going to get off some of these news providers... i am getting too much#$* & ^ - Colin Sky Tuesday, May 16, 2006 11:01 AM Re: Animal Testing yeah i have steered clear too... what these people did was shit... what blair has done to innocent people is shit too... selective justice rules... so yeah i really wanna stay clear. there is no justice only revenge it seems. peace colin - fraggle Tuesday, May 16, 2006 7:32 AM Re: Animal Testing i've steered clear of ya'll discussion on this...butAnimal testing is regulated by EU and British Law. The studies are doneunder very controlled conditions. The Home Office regulates it very tightly,it inspects animal houses for standards and hygiene yeah..and the SS ran a smack dab great system of concentration camps as well....all very regulated>jo <jo.heartwork>May 14, 2006 7:57 AM> > Animal Testing>>Head to head: Animal testing>Tony Blair has publicly defended animal testing and accused anti-vivisection>extremists of stooping to "appalling" depths. His comments have been>applauded by scientists, but criticised by animal rights campaigners.>Here, two people from each side give their views.>>>PROFESSOR CHRIS HIGGINS, DIRECTOR OF THE MEDICAL RESEARCH COUNCIL CLINICAL>FINANCES CENTRE>>>>"I think it's really important to get such public support from the Prime>Minister.>>These people - scientists, researchers and so on - are doing fantastic work,>and they have been scared to go to work. It's very important to get this>support because you can't have fear and intimidation of people going about>their work in medicine.>>I think one of the most important things to understand is that we have very>tight regulations on experiments undertaken on animals. They are only>undertaken when there is no alternative, and they are made to minimize any>suffering.>>Animal testing is regulated by EU and British Law. The studies are done>under very controlled conditions. The Home Office regulates it very tightly,>it inspects animal houses for standards and hygiene and ensures studies are>not done if there is an alternative.>>The law requires numbers of animal experiments to ensure we have safe>chemicals in the environment and safe medicines.>>The vast majority of experiments are done on mice or rats and most people>consider these to be pests and put down nasty poisons for them.>>People who say we can use cells don't understand medicine. You have to test>these cells on a whole body. Animals are always the end point.>>Many medicines come from animals, such as insulin which originally came from>cows, and herceptin, which was developed from animals.>>It's a very straight forward and simple choice - if you want new medicines>that are safe and effective we have to use animals.>>I would rather a new medicine was tested on a rat than tested on my child.>Children's lives are more valuable than rats'.">>>ALISTAIR CURRIE, CAMPAIGN DIRECTOR FOR THE BRITISH UNION FOR THE ABOLITION>OF VIVISECTION>>>>>"The prime minister is rightly taking a tough line on extremists, but he is>not looking at the problems of animal testing.>>He is mixing the two up. The fact is that the public overall are very>confused about animal experimentation. They are in favour of medical>progress but they are against the suffering of animals.>>Before this government came to power, animal testing was going down. Now>they are ignoring the fact that it is on the rise.>>Essentially animal experimentation causes great suffering to millions of>animals in the UK, but doesn't produce the benefits to humans.>>The drugs which are used in the UK have been tested on animals but that>doesn't mean they needed to be. This is a technology that is decades old.>>We can use computer modelling, human tissue cells in the lab, and>well-designed studies on human volunteers. All of these things will tell us>what happens on humans, unlike animal studies - which don't.>>There is a conservatism in government and science that says 'we should keep>using the old methods'.>>Ninety per cent of drugs that have been animal tested fail in human>studies - they never actually make it onto the market, because they don't>work.>>So the government is backing a system that fails.>>It is legal in this country to poison an animal to death, to inflict brain>damage on it and surgically manipulate it. Mice given cancer are suffering>severe pain and distress. Rats that are asphyxiated to death are suffering>profoundly.>>The animal is small but the suffering is great.">>>>http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4769749.stm>>>>>To send an email to - > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 16, 2006 Report Share Posted May 16, 2006 Hi Colin I don't like Prince Charles - he is a fox and deer hunter, pheasant shooter etc. etc. Whiel he has some good ideas he is not a particularly kind person. Jo , " Colin Sky " <colinsky wrote: > > i am sorry to offend our leaders and others, accept my apologies. some policies hurt. I must be more positive. leaders have a tough job with so much depending on their leadership. > > we are all concerned about the future of nature and ourselves. > > Can there be peaceful solutions to all wars? A set of values by which we all could live by, reducing the harm that is happening? > > What would it take for a world amnesty? Who could organise it? > > > What we spend on war can be used on making the world better place to live? > > the kings of this world and the people could negotiate a path forward together>>>> could this happen? > > i like prince charles. he would be a thoughtful man to ask? > > > peace > > colin > > ps. i am going to get off some of these news providers... i am getting too much#$* & ^ > > - > Colin Sky > > Tuesday, May 16, 2006 11:01 AM > Re: Animal Testing > > > yeah i have steered clear too... what these people did was shit... what blair has done to innocent people is shit too... > > selective justice rules... > > so yeah i really wanna stay clear. there is no justice only revenge it seems. > > peace > > colin > > > - > fraggle > > Tuesday, May 16, 2006 7:32 AM > Re: Animal Testing > > > i've steered clear of ya'll discussion on this... > but > Animal testing is regulated by EU and British Law. The studies are done > under very controlled conditions. The Home Office regulates it very tightly, > it inspects animal houses for standards and hygiene > > yeah..and the SS ran a smack dab great system of concentration camps as well.... > all very regulated > > > > >jo <jo.heartwork > >May 14, 2006 7:57 AM > > > > Animal Testing > > > >Head to head: Animal testing > >Tony Blair has publicly defended animal testing and accused anti-vivisection > >extremists of stooping to " appalling " depths. His comments have been > >applauded by scientists, but criticised by animal rights campaigners. > >Here, two people from each side give their views. > > > > > >PROFESSOR CHRIS HIGGINS, DIRECTOR OF THE MEDICAL RESEARCH COUNCIL CLINICAL > >FINANCES CENTRE > > > > > > > > " I think it's really important to get such public support from the Prime > >Minister. > > > >These people - scientists, researchers and so on - are doing fantastic work, > >and they have been scared to go to work. It's very important to get this > >support because you can't have fear and intimidation of people going about > >their work in medicine. > > > >I think one of the most important things to understand is that we have very > >tight regulations on experiments undertaken on animals. They are only > >undertaken when there is no alternative, and they are made to minimize any > >suffering. > > > >Animal testing is regulated by EU and British Law. The studies are done > >under very controlled conditions. The Home Office regulates it very tightly, > >it inspects animal houses for standards and hygiene and ensures studies are > >not done if there is an alternative. > > > >The law requires numbers of animal experiments to ensure we have safe > >chemicals in the environment and safe medicines. > > > >The vast majority of experiments are done on mice or rats and most people > >consider these to be pests and put down nasty poisons for them. > > > >People who say we can use cells don't understand medicine. You have to test > >these cells on a whole body. Animals are always the end point. > > > >Many medicines come from animals, such as insulin which originally came from > >cows, and herceptin, which was developed from animals. > > > >It's a very straight forward and simple choice - if you want new medicines > >that are safe and effective we have to use animals. > > > >I would rather a new medicine was tested on a rat than tested on my child. > >Children's lives are more valuable than rats'. " > > > > > >ALISTAIR CURRIE, CAMPAIGN DIRECTOR FOR THE BRITISH UNION FOR THE ABOLITION > >OF VIVISECTION > > > > > > > > > > " The prime minister is rightly taking a tough line on extremists, but he is > >not looking at the problems of animal testing. > > > >He is mixing the two up. The fact is that the public overall are very > >confused about animal experimentation. They are in favour of medical > >progress but they are against the suffering of animals. > > > >Before this government came to power, animal testing was going down. Now > >they are ignoring the fact that it is on the rise. > > > >Essentially animal experimentation causes great suffering to millions of > >animals in the UK, but doesn't produce the benefits to humans. > > > >The drugs which are used in the UK have been tested on animals but that > >doesn't mean they needed to be. This is a technology that is decades old. > > > >We can use computer modelling, human tissue cells in the lab, and > >well-designed studies on human volunteers. All of these things will tell us > >what happens on humans, unlike animal studies - which don't. > > > >There is a conservatism in government and science that says 'we should keep > >using the old methods'. > > > >Ninety per cent of drugs that have been animal tested fail in human > >studies - they never actually make it onto the market, because they don't > >work. > > > >So the government is backing a system that fails. > > > >It is legal in this country to poison an animal to death, to inflict brain > >damage on it and surgically manipulate it. Mice given cancer are suffering > >severe pain and distress. Rats that are asphyxiated to death are suffering > >profoundly. > > > >The animal is small but the suffering is great. " > > > > > > > >http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4769749.stm > > > > > > > > > >To send an email to - > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 16, 2006 Report Share Posted May 16, 2006 if the least that happened to the so called leaders was you offended them, then everyone got off waaaaaaaaaaay too lightly imo Colin Sky May 15, 2006 11:20 PM too much#$* & ^ i am sorry to offend our leaders and others, accept my apologies. some policies hurt. I must be more positive. leaders have a tough job with so much depending on their leadership. What's gonna happen when the buses don't run and what's gonna happen when the, winter comes what are you gonna do, what are you gonna do when the oil runs out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 16, 2006 Report Share Posted May 16, 2006 Spot on Jo. He does have some good ideas, but still kills for fun. The Valley Vegan.............heartwerk <jo.heartwork wrote: Hi ColinI don't like Prince Charles - he is a fox and deer hunter, pheasant shooter etc. etc. Whiel he has some good ideas he is not a particularly kind person.Jo , "Colin Sky" wrote:>> i am sorry to offend our leaders and others, accept my apologies. some policies hurt. I must be more positive. leaders have a tough job with so much depending on their leadership. > > we are all concerned about the future of nature and ourselves. > > Can there be peaceful solutions to all wars? A set of values by which we all could live by, reducing the harm that is happening?> > What would it take for a world amnesty? Who could organise it?> > > What we spend on war can be used on making the world better place to live?> > the kings of this world and the people could negotiate a path forward together>>>> could this happen?> > i like prince charles. he would be a thoughtful man to ask?> > > peace> > colin> > ps. i am going to get off some of these news providers... i am getting too much#$* & ^ > - > Colin Sky > > Tuesday, May 16, 2006 11:01 AM> Re: Animal Testing> > > yeah i have steered clear too... what these people did was shit... what blair has done to innocent people is shit too... > > selective justice rules...> > so yeah i really wanna stay clear. there is no justice only revenge it seems.> > peace> > colin> > > - > fraggle > > Tuesday, May 16, 2006 7:32 AM> Re: Animal Testing> > > i've steered clear of ya'll discussion on this...> but> Animal testing is regulated by EU and British Law. The studies are done> under very controlled conditions. The Home Office regulates it very tightly,> it inspects animal houses for standards and hygiene > > yeah..and the SS ran a smack dab great system of concentration camps as well....> all very regulated> > > > >jo > >May 14, 2006 7:57 AM> >To: > > Animal Testing> >> >Head to head: Animal testing> >Tony Blair has publicly defended animal testing and accused anti-vivisection> >extremists of stooping to "appalling" depths. His comments have been> >applauded by scientists, but criticised by animal rights campaigners.> >Here, two people from each side give their views.> >> >> >PROFESSOR CHRIS HIGGINS, DIRECTOR OF THE MEDICAL RESEARCH COUNCIL CLINICAL> >FINANCES CENTRE> >> >> >> >"I think it's really important to get such public support from the Prime> >Minister.> >> >These people - scientists, researchers and so on - are doing fantastic work,> >and they have been scared to go to work. It's very important to get this> >support because you can't have fear and intimidation of people going about> >their work in medicine.> >> >I think one of the most important things to understand is that we have very> >tight regulations on experiments undertaken on animals. They are only> >undertaken when there is no alternative, and they are made to minimize any> >suffering.> >> >Animal testing is regulated by EU and British Law. The studies are done> >under very controlled conditions. The Home Office regulates it very tightly,> >it inspects animal houses for standards and hygiene and ensures studies are> >not done if there is an alternative.> >> >The law requires numbers of animal experiments to ensure we have safe> >chemicals in the environment and safe medicines.> >> >The vast majority of experiments are done on mice or rats and most people> >consider these to be pests and put down nasty poisons for them.> >> >People who say we can use cells don't understand medicine. You have to test> >these cells on a whole body. Animals are always the end point.> >> >Many medicines come from animals, such as insulin which originally came from> >cows, and herceptin, which was developed from animals.> >> >It's a very straight forward and simple choice - if you want new medicines> >that are safe and effective we have to use animals.> >> >I would rather a new medicine was tested on a rat than tested on my child.> >Children's lives are more valuable than rats'."> >> >> >ALISTAIR CURRIE, CAMPAIGN DIRECTOR FOR THE BRITISH UNION FOR THE ABOLITION> >OF VIVISECTION> >> >> >> >> >"The prime minister is rightly taking a tough line on extremists, but he is> >not looking at the problems of animal testing.> >> >He is mixing the two up. The fact is that the public overall are very> >confused about animal experimentation. They are in favour of medical> >progress but they are against the suffering of animals.> >> >Before this government came to power, animal testing was going down. Now> >they are ignoring the fact that it is on the rise.> >> >Essentially animal experimentation causes great suffering to millions of> >animals in the UK, but doesn't produce the benefits to humans.> >> >The drugs which are used in the UK have been tested on animals but that> >doesn't mean they needed to be. This is a technology that is decades old.> >> >We can use computer modelling, human tissue cells in the lab, and> >well-designed studies on human volunteers. All of these things will tell us> >what happens on humans, unlike animal studies - which don't.> >> >There is a conservatism in government and science that says 'we should keep> >using the old methods'.> >> >Ninety per cent of drugs that have been animal tested fail in human> >studies - they never actually make it onto the market, because they don't> >work.> >> >So the government is backing a system that fails.> >> >It is legal in this country to poison an animal to death, to inflict brain> >damage on it and surgically manipulate it. Mice given cancer are suffering> >severe pain and distress. Rats that are asphyxiated to death are suffering> >profoundly.> >> >The animal is small but the suffering is great."> >> >> >> >http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4769749.stm> >> >> >> >> >To send an email to - > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 16, 2006 Report Share Posted May 16, 2006 like what ideas ?peter hurd <swpgh01 wrote: Spot on Jo. He does have some good ideas, but still kills for fun. The Valley Vegan.............heartwerk <jo.heartwork wrote: Hi ColinI don't like Prince Charles - he is a fox and deer hunter, pheasant shooter etc. etc. Whiel he has some good ideas he is not a particularly kind person.Jo , "Colin Sky" wrote:>> i am sorry to offend our leaders and others, accept my apologies. some policies hurt. I must be more positive. leaders have a tough job with so much depending on their leadership. > > we are all concerned about the future of nature and ourselves. > > Can there be peaceful solutions to all wars? A set of values by which we all could live by, reducing the harm that is happening?> > What would it take for a world amnesty? Who could organise it?> > > What we spend on war can be used on making the world better place to live?> > the kings of this world and the people could negotiate a path forward together>>>> could this happen?> > i like prince charles. he would be a thoughtful man to ask?> > > peace> > colin> > ps. i am going to get off some of these news providers... i am getting too much#$* & ^ > - > Colin Sky > > Tuesday, May 16, 2006 11:01 AM> Re: Animal Testing> > > yeah i have steered clear too... what these people did was shit... what blair has done to innocent people is shit too... > > selective justice rules...> > so yeah i really wanna stay clear. there is no justice only revenge it seems.> > peace> > colin> > > - > fraggle > > Tuesday, May 16, 2006 7:32 AM> Re: Animal Testing> > > i've steered clear of ya'll discussion on this...> but> Animal testing is regulated by EU and British Law. The studies are done> under very controlled conditions. The Home Office regulates it very tightly,> it inspects animal houses for standards and hygiene > > yeah..and the SS ran a smack dab great system of concentration camps as well....> all very regulated> > > > >jo > >May 14, 2006 7:57 AM> > > > Animal Testing> >> >Head to head: Animal testing> >Tony Blair has publicly defended animal testing and accused anti-vivisection> >extremists of stooping to "appalling" depths. His comments have been> >applauded by scientists, but criticised by animal rights campaigners.> >Here, two people from each side give their views.> >> >> >PROFESSOR CHRIS HIGGINS, DIRECTOR OF THE MEDICAL RESEARCH COUNCIL CLINICAL> >FINANCES CENTRE> >> >> >> >"I think it's really important to get such public support from the Prime> >Minister.> >> >These people - scientists, researchers and so on - are doing fantastic work,> >and they have been scared to go to work. It's very important to get this> >support because you can't have fear and intimidation of people going about> >their work in medicine.> >> >I think one of the most important things to understand is that we have very> >tight regulations on experiments undertaken on animals. They are only> >undertaken when there is no alternative, and they are made to minimize any> >suffering.> >> >Animal testing is regulated by EU and British Law. The studies are done> >under very controlled conditions. The Home Office regulates it very tightly,> >it inspects animal houses for standards and hygiene and ensures studies are> >not done if there is an alternative.> >> >The law requires numbers of animal experiments to ensure we have safe> >chemicals in the environment and safe medicines.> >> >The vast majority of experiments are done on mice or rats and most people> >consider these to be pests and put down nasty poisons for them.> >> >People who say we can use cells don't understand medicine. You have to test> >these cells on a whole body. Animals are always the end point.> >> >Many medicines come from animals, such as insulin which originally came from> >cows, and herceptin, which was developed from animals.> >> >It's a very straight forward and simple choice - if you want new medicines> >that are safe and effective we have to use animals.> >> >I would rather a new medicine was tested on a rat than tested on my child.> >Children's lives are more valuable than rats'."> >> >> >ALISTAIR CURRIE, CAMPAIGN DIRECTOR FOR THE BRITISH UNION FOR THE ABOLITION> >OF VIVISECTION> >> >> >> >> >"The prime minister is rightly taking a tough line on extremists, but he is> >not looking at the problems of animal testing.> >> >He is mixing the two up. The fact is that the public overall are very> >confused about animal experimentation. They are in favour of medical> >progress but they are against the suffering of animals.> >> >Before this government came to power, animal testing was going down. Now> >they are ignoring the fact that it is on the rise.> >> >Essentially animal experimentation causes great suffering to millions of> >animals in the UK, but doesn't produce the benefits to humans.> >> >The drugs which are used in the UK have been tested on animals but that> >doesn't mean they needed to be. This is a technology that is decades old.> >> >We can use computer modelling, human tissue cells in the lab, and> >well-designed studies on human volunteers. All of these things will tell us> >what happens on humans, unlike animal studies - which don't.> >> >There is a conservatism in government and science that says 'we should keep> >using the old methods'.> >> >Ninety per cent of drugs that have been animal tested fail in human> >studies - they never actually make it onto the market, because they don't> >work.> >> >So the government is backing a system that fails.> >> >It is legal in this country to poison an animal to death, to inflict brain> >damage on it and surgically manipulate it. Mice given cancer are suffering> >severe pain and distress. Rats that are asphyxiated to death are suffering> >profoundly.> >> >The animal is small but the suffering is great."> >> >> >> >http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4769749.stm> >> >> >> >> >To send an email to - > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 16, 2006 Report Share Posted May 16, 2006 Organic farming methods on his own farm, the use of alternative medicine. Jo - louis stott Tuesday, May 16, 2006 6:48 PM Re: Re: too much#$* & ^ like what ideas ?peter hurd <swpgh01 wrote: Spot on Jo. He does have some good ideas, but still kills for fun. The Valley Vegan.............heartwerk <jo.heartwork wrote: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 16, 2006 Report Share Posted May 16, 2006 Hi Louis >like what ideas ? While I'm no fan of Prince Charles, he does give a lot of support to renewable energy, protection of village communities, organic farming, alternative fuels, etc. So he does have some good points... BB Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 17, 2006 Report Share Posted May 17, 2006 hi jo. i am just sick of not liking people. are we not all conditioned by our upbringing? clones of our parents and their parents? should we also dislike blackbirds and thrushes because they hunt worms? Nice to know your thoughts on that one. peace colin. - heartwerk Tuesday, May 16, 2006 7:05 PM Re: too much#$* & ^ Hi ColinI don't like Prince Charles - he is a fox and deer hunter, pheasant shooter etc. etc. Whiel he has some good ideas he is not a particularly kind person.Jo , "Colin Sky" <colinsky wrote:>> i am sorry to offend our leaders and others, accept my apologies. some policies hurt. I must be more positive. leaders have a tough job with so much depending on their leadership. > > we are all concerned about the future of nature and ourselves. > > Can there be peaceful solutions to all wars? A set of values by which we all could live by, reducing the harm that is happening?> > What would it take for a world amnesty? Who could organise it?> > > What we spend on war can be used on making the world better place to live?> > the kings of this world and the people could negotiate a path forward together>>>> could this happen?> > i like prince charles. he would be a thoughtful man to ask?> > > peace> > colin> > ps. i am going to get off some of these news providers... i am getting too much#$* & ^ > - > Colin Sky > > Tuesday, May 16, 2006 11:01 AM> Re: Animal Testing> > > yeah i have steered clear too... what these people did was shit... what blair has done to innocent people is shit too... > > selective justice rules...> > so yeah i really wanna stay clear. there is no justice only revenge it seems.> > peace> > colin> > > - > fraggle > > Tuesday, May 16, 2006 7:32 AM> Re: Animal Testing> > > i've steered clear of ya'll discussion on this...> but> Animal testing is regulated by EU and British Law. The studies are done> under very controlled conditions. The Home Office regulates it very tightly,> it inspects animal houses for standards and hygiene > > yeah..and the SS ran a smack dab great system of concentration camps as well....> all very regulated> > > > >jo <jo.heartwork> >May 14, 2006 7:57 AM> > > > Animal Testing> >> >Head to head: Animal testing> >Tony Blair has publicly defended animal testing and accused anti-vivisection> >extremists of stooping to "appalling" depths. His comments have been> >applauded by scientists, but criticised by animal rights campaigners.> >Here, two people from each side give their views.> >> >> >PROFESSOR CHRIS HIGGINS, DIRECTOR OF THE MEDICAL RESEARCH COUNCIL CLINICAL> >FINANCES CENTRE> >> >> >> >"I think it's really important to get such public support from the Prime> >Minister.> >> >These people - scientists, researchers and so on - are doing fantastic work,> >and they have been scared to go to work. It's very important to get this> >support because you can't have fear and intimidation of people going about> >their work in medicine.> >> >I think one of the most important things to understand is that we have very> >tight regulations on experiments undertaken on animals. They are only> >undertaken when there is no alternative, and they are made to minimize any> >suffering.> >> >Animal testing is regulated by EU and British Law. The studies are done> >under very controlled conditions. The Home Office regulates it very tightly,> >it inspects animal houses for standards and hygiene and ensures studies are> >not done if there is an alternative.> >> >The law requires numbers of animal experiments to ensure we have safe> >chemicals in the environment and safe medicines.> >> >The vast majority of experiments are done on mice or rats and most people> >consider these to be pests and put down nasty poisons for them.> >> >People who say we can use cells don't understand medicine. You have to test> >these cells on a whole body. Animals are always the end point.> >> >Many medicines come from animals, such as insulin which originally came from> >cows, and herceptin, which was developed from animals.> >> >It's a very straight forward and simple choice - if you want new medicines> >that are safe and effective we have to use animals.> >> >I would rather a new medicine was tested on a rat than tested on my child.> >Children's lives are more valuable than rats'."> >> >> >ALISTAIR CURRIE, CAMPAIGN DIRECTOR FOR THE BRITISH UNION FOR THE ABOLITION> >OF VIVISECTION> >> >> >> >> >"The prime minister is rightly taking a tough line on extremists, but he is> >not looking at the problems of animal testing.> >> >He is mixing the two up. The fact is that the public overall are very> >confused about animal experimentation. They are in favour of medical> >progress but they are against the suffering of animals.> >> >Before this government came to power, animal testing was going down. Now> >they are ignoring the fact that it is on the rise.> >> >Essentially animal experimentation causes great suffering to millions of> >animals in the UK, but doesn't produce the benefits to humans.> >> >The drugs which are used in the UK have been tested on animals but that> >doesn't mean they needed to be. This is a technology that is decades old.> >> >We can use computer modelling, human tissue cells in the lab, and> >well-designed studies on human volunteers. All of these things will tell us> >what happens on humans, unlike animal studies - which don't.> >> >There is a conservatism in government and science that says 'we should keep> >using the old methods'.> >> >Ninety per cent of drugs that have been animal tested fail in human> >studies - they never actually make it onto the market, because they don't> >work.> >> >So the government is backing a system that fails.> >> >It is legal in this country to poison an animal to death, to inflict brain> >damage on it and surgically manipulate it. Mice given cancer are suffering> >severe pain and distress. Rats that are asphyxiated to death are suffering> >profoundly.> >> >The animal is small but the suffering is great."> >> >> >> >http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4769749.stm> >> >> >> >> >To send an email to - > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 17, 2006 Report Share Posted May 17, 2006 oh thanks jo. there was a reason why he stood out as being a thoughtful person with some merit. one day he may even realise about veganic farming. :-) now there is a nice thought. - jo Wednesday, May 17, 2006 8:06 AM Re: Re: too much#$* & ^ Organic farming methods on his own farm, the use of alternative medicine. Jo - louis stott Tuesday, May 16, 2006 6:48 PM Re: Re: too much#$* & ^ like what ideas ?peter hurd <swpgh01 wrote: Spot on Jo. He does have some good ideas, but still kills for fun. The Valley Vegan.............heartwerk <jo.heartwork wrote: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 17, 2006 Report Share Posted May 17, 2006 come on charles. make my day. go vegan. - Peter Wednesday, May 17, 2006 9:38 AM Re: Re: too much#$* & ^ Hi Louis >like what ideas ? While I'm no fan of Prince Charles, he does give a lot of support to renewable energy, protection of village communities, organic farming, alternative fuels, etc. So he does have some good points... BB Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 17, 2006 Report Share Posted May 17, 2006 good point i think i shall write to him and ask him that Colin Sky <colinsky wrote: come on charles. make my day. go vegan. - Peter Wednesday, May 17, 2006 9:38 AM Re: Re: too much#$* & ^ Hi Louis >like what ideas ? While I'm no fan of Prince Charles, he does give a lot of support to renewable energy, protection of village communities, organic farming, alternative fuels, etc. So he does have some good points... BB PeterSend instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 17, 2006 Report Share Posted May 17, 2006 Your questions are a little angled, and I am uncertain as to your angle. It seems to me that you think that it is okay for Charles to hunt and shoot animals - is that correct? (Do you hunt?) I don't think it is okay for Charles to hunt and shoot - I think I have made that fairly clear. I used to go hunt sabbing, so obviously disagree with it. You asked - Should I dislike blackbirds and thrushes because they hunt worms? Why would I do that? Jo , " Colin Sky " <colinsky wrote: > > hi jo. i am just sick of not liking people. are we not all conditioned by our upbringing? clones of our parents and their parents? > > should we also dislike blackbirds and thrushes because they hunt worms? Nice to know your thoughts on that one. > > peace > > colin. > > > - > heartwerk > > Tuesday, May 16, 2006 7:05 PM > Re: too much#$* & ^ > > > Hi Colin > > I don't like Prince Charles - he is a fox and deer hunter, pheasant > shooter etc. etc. Whiel he has some good ideas he is not a > particularly kind person. > > Jo > > , " Colin Sky " <colinsky@> wrote: > > > > i am sorry to offend our leaders and others, accept my apologies. > some policies hurt. I must be more positive. leaders have a tough job > with so much depending on their leadership. > > > > we are all concerned about the future of nature and ourselves. > > > > Can there be peaceful solutions to all wars? A set of values by > which we all could live by, reducing the harm that is happening? > > > > What would it take for a world amnesty? Who could organise it? > > > > > > What we spend on war can be used on making the world better place > to live? > > > > the kings of this world and the people could negotiate a path > forward together>>>> could this happen? > > > > i like prince charles. he would be a thoughtful man to ask? > > > > > > peace > > > > colin > > > > ps. i am going to get off some of these news providers... i am > getting too much#$* & ^ > > > > - > > Colin Sky > > > > Tuesday, May 16, 2006 11:01 AM > > Re: Animal Testing > > > > > > yeah i have steered clear too... what these people did was > shit... what blair has done to innocent people is shit too... > > > > selective justice rules... > > > > so yeah i really wanna stay clear. there is no justice only > revenge it seems. > > > > peace > > > > colin > > > > > > - > > fraggle > > > > Tuesday, May 16, 2006 7:32 AM > > Re: Animal Testing > > > > > > i've steered clear of ya'll discussion on this... > > but > > Animal testing is regulated by EU and British Law. The studies > are done > > under very controlled conditions. The Home Office regulates it > very tightly, > > it inspects animal houses for standards and hygiene > > > > yeah..and the SS ran a smack dab great system of concentration > camps as well.... > > all very regulated > > > > > > > > >jo <jo.heartwork@> > > >May 14, 2006 7:57 AM > > > > > > Animal Testing > > > > > >Head to head: Animal testing > > >Tony Blair has publicly defended animal testing and accused > anti-vivisection > > >extremists of stooping to " appalling " depths. His comments > have been > > >applauded by scientists, but criticised by animal rights > campaigners. > > >Here, two people from each side give their views. > > > > > > > > >PROFESSOR CHRIS HIGGINS, DIRECTOR OF THE MEDICAL RESEARCH > COUNCIL CLINICAL > > >FINANCES CENTRE > > > > > > > > > > > > " I think it's really important to get such public support from > the Prime > > >Minister. > > > > > >These people - scientists, researchers and so on - are doing > fantastic work, > > >and they have been scared to go to work. It's very important > to get this > > >support because you can't have fear and intimidation of people > going about > > >their work in medicine. > > > > > >I think one of the most important things to understand is that > we have very > > >tight regulations on experiments undertaken on animals. They > are only > > >undertaken when there is no alternative, and they are made to > minimize any > > >suffering. > > > > > >Animal testing is regulated by EU and British Law. The studies > are done > > >under very controlled conditions. The Home Office regulates it > very tightly, > > >it inspects animal houses for standards and hygiene and > ensures studies are > > >not done if there is an alternative. > > > > > >The law requires numbers of animal experiments to ensure we > have safe > > >chemicals in the environment and safe medicines. > > > > > >The vast majority of experiments are done on mice or rats and > most people > > >consider these to be pests and put down nasty poisons for them. > > > > > >People who say we can use cells don't understand medicine. You > have to test > > >these cells on a whole body. Animals are always the end point. > > > > > >Many medicines come from animals, such as insulin which > originally came from > > >cows, and herceptin, which was developed from animals. > > > > > >It's a very straight forward and simple choice - if you want > new medicines > > >that are safe and effective we have to use animals. > > > > > >I would rather a new medicine was tested on a rat than tested > on my child. > > >Children's lives are more valuable than rats'. " > > > > > > > > >ALISTAIR CURRIE, CAMPAIGN DIRECTOR FOR THE BRITISH UNION FOR > THE ABOLITION > > >OF VIVISECTION > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " The prime minister is rightly taking a tough line on > extremists, but he is > > >not looking at the problems of animal testing. > > > > > >He is mixing the two up. The fact is that the public overall > are very > > >confused about animal experimentation. They are in favour of > medical > > >progress but they are against the suffering of animals. > > > > > >Before this government came to power, animal testing was going > down. Now > > >they are ignoring the fact that it is on the rise. > > > > > >Essentially animal experimentation causes great suffering to > millions of > > >animals in the UK, but doesn't produce the benefits to humans. > > > > > >The drugs which are used in the UK have been tested on animals > but that > > >doesn't mean they needed to be. This is a technology that is > decades old. > > > > > >We can use computer modelling, human tissue cells in the lab, > and > > >well-designed studies on human volunteers. All of these things > will tell us > > >what happens on humans, unlike animal studies - which don't. > > > > > >There is a conservatism in government and science that > says 'we should keep > > >using the old methods'. > > > > > >Ninety per cent of drugs that have been animal tested fail in > human > > >studies - they never actually make it onto the market, because > they don't > > >work. > > > > > >So the government is backing a system that fails. > > > > > >It is legal in this country to poison an animal to death, to > inflict brain > > >damage on it and surgically manipulate it. Mice given cancer > are suffering > > >severe pain and distress. Rats that are asphyxiated to death > are suffering > > >profoundly. > > > > > >The animal is small but the suffering is great. " > > > > > > > > > > > >http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4769749.stm > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >To send an email to - > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 17, 2006 Report Share Posted May 17, 2006 of course this is for Jo to respond to and, on the one paw, i understand wot you are saying but...comparing the need of a bird to eat a worm to someone hunting for sport, doesn't really add up will the Prince starve if he doesn't jump on a horse and tear across the countryside with his uppercrust pals, scaring the beejeebers out of every critter in a league, and then settin the hounds upon wotever hapless fox gets caught in the way? Colin Sky May 16, 2006 4:02 PM Re: Re: too much#$* & ^ hi jo. i am just sick of not liking people. are we not all conditioned by our upbringing? clones of our parents and their parents? should we also dislike blackbirds and thrushes because they hunt worms? Nice to know your thoughts on that one. peace colin. - heartwerk Tuesday, May 16, 2006 7:05 PM Re: too much#$* & ^ Hi ColinI don't like Prince Charles - he is a fox and deer hunter, pheasant shooter etc. etc. Whiel he has some good ideas he is not a particularly kind person.Jo , "Colin Sky" <colinsky wrote:>> i am sorry to offend our leaders and others, accept my apologies. some policies hurt. I must be more positive. leaders have a tough job with so much depending on their leadership. > > we are all concerned about the future of nature and ourselves. > > Can there be peaceful solutions to all wars? A set of values by which we all could live by, reducing the harm that is happening?> > What would it take for a world amnesty? Who could organise it?> > > What we spend on war can be used on making the world better place to live?> > the kings of this world and the people could negotiate a path forward together>>>> could this happen?> > i like prince charles. he would be a thoughtful man to ask?> > > peace> > colin> > ps. i am going to get off some of these news providers... i am getting too much#$* & ^ > - > Colin Sky > > Tuesday, May 16, 2006 11:01 AM> Re: Animal Testing> > > yeah i have steered clear too... what these people did was shit... what blair has done to innocent people is shit too... > > selective justice rules...> > so yeah i really wanna stay clear. there is no justice only revenge it seems.> > peace> > colin> > > - > fraggle > > Tuesday, May 16, 2006 7:32 AM> Re: Animal Testing> > > i've steered clear of ya'll discussion on this...> but> Animal testing is regulated by EU and British Law. The studies are done> under very controlled conditions. The Home Office regulates it very tightly,> it inspects animal houses for standards and hygiene > > yeah..and the SS ran a smack dab great system of concentration camps as well....> all very regulated> > > > >jo <jo.heartwork> >May 14, 2006 7:57 AM> > > > Animal Testing> >> >Head to head: Animal testing> >Tony Blair has publicly defended animal testing and accused anti-vivisection> >extremists of stooping to "appalling" depths. His comments have been> >applauded by scientists, but criticised by animal rights campaigners.> >Here, two people from each side give their views.> >> >> >PROFESSOR CHRIS HIGGINS, DIRECTOR OF THE MEDICAL RESEARCH COUNCIL CLINICAL> >FINANCES CENTRE> >> >> >> >"I think it's really important to get such public support from the Prime> >Minister.> >> >These people - scientists, researchers and so on - are doing fantastic work,> >and they have been scared to go to work. It's very important to get this> >support because you can't have fear and intimidation of people going about> >their work in medicine.> >> >I think one of the most important things to understand is that we have very> >tight regulations on experiments undertaken on animals. They are only> >undertaken when there is no alternative, and they are made to minimize any> >suffering.> >> >Animal testing is regulated by EU and British Law. The studies are done> >under very controlled conditions. The Home Office regulates it very tightly,> >it inspects animal houses for standards and hygiene and ensures studies are> >not done if there is an alternative.> >> >The law requires numbers of animal experiments to ensure we have safe> >chemicals in the environment and safe medicines.> >> >The vast majority of experiments are done on mice or rats and most people> >consider these to be pests and put down nasty poisons for them.> >> >People who say we can use cells don't understand medicine. You have to test> >these cells on a whole body. Animals are always the end point.> >> >Many medicines come from animals, such as insulin which originally came from> >cows, and herceptin, which was developed from animals.> >> >It's a very straight forward and simple choice - if you want new medicines> >that are safe and effective we have to use animals.> >> >I would rather a new medicine was tested on a rat than tested on my child.> >Children's lives are more valuable than rats'."> >> >> >ALISTAIR CURRIE, CAMPAIGN DIRECTOR FOR THE BRITISH UNION FOR THE ABOLITION> >OF VIVISECTION> >> >> >> >> >"The prime minister is rightly taking a tough line on extremists, but he is> >not looking at the problems of animal testing.> >> >He is mixing the two up. The fact is that the public overall are very> >confused about animal experimentation. They are in favour of medical> >progress but they are against the suffering of animals.> >> >Before this government came to power, animal testing was going down. Now> >they are ignoring the fact that it is on the rise.> >> >Essentially animal experimentation causes great suffering to millions of> >animals in the UK, but doesn't produce the benefits to humans.> >> >The drugs which are used in the UK have been tested on animals but that> >doesn't mean they needed to be. This is a technology that is decades old.> >> >We can use computer modelling, human tissue cells in the lab, and> >well-designed studies on human volunteers. All of these things will tell us> >what happens on humans, unlike animal studies - which don't.> >> >There is a conservatism in government and science that says 'we should keep> >using the old methods'.> >> >Ninety per cent of drugs that have been animal tested fail in human> >studies - they never actually make it onto the market, because they don't> >work.> >> >So the government is backing a system that fails.> >> >It is legal in this country to poison an animal to death, to inflict brain> >damage on it and surgically manipulate it. Mice given cancer are suffering> >severe pain and distress. Rats that are asphyxiated to death are suffering> >profoundly.> >> >The animal is small but the suffering is great."> >> >> >> >http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4769749.stm> >> >> >> >> >To send an email to - > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 17, 2006 Report Share Posted May 17, 2006 I removed four slugs from the seedlings I planted - about a third are eaten! Jo - peter hurd Wednesday, May 17, 2006 5:59 PM Re: Re: too much#$* & ^ Spot on my friend.Hows your garden now? It is chucking it down here at the moment, the slugs and snails are loving it! The Valley Vegan................. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 17, 2006 Report Share Posted May 17, 2006 Only 3? wow you are lucky, I just picked 3 from one plant! dont plant any more until you have done a week of gatherings. The Valley Vegan..................jo <jo.heartwork wrote: I removed four slugs from the seedlings I planted - about a third are eaten! Jo - peter hurd Wednesday, May 17, 2006 5:59 PM Re: Re: too much#$* & ^ Spot on my friend.Hows your garden now? It is chucking it down here at the moment, the slugs and snails are loving it! The Valley Vegan.................Peter H Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 18, 2006 Report Share Posted May 18, 2006 I think that I know what you mean, lot of vegans hate too much and are too angry all of the time this prevents them perhaps channeling their energies active positive expericiences and 'doing something about it' however, I just cannot love a hunter, or even understand them. I will always speak for the ones that have no voice and who give love unconditionally, whose lives are taken away, just because someone can. I agree with you, that it is a good policy to tolerate (most) people. , " Colin Sky " <colinsky wrote: > > hi jo. i am just sick of not liking people. are we not all conditioned by our upbringing? clones of our parents and their parents? > > should we also dislike blackbirds and thrushes because they hunt worms? Nice to know your thoughts on that one. > > peace > > colin. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 20, 2006 Report Share Posted May 20, 2006 thankyou from us all... - louis stott Wednesday, May 17, 2006 6:16 PM Re: Re: too much#$* & ^ good point i think i shall write to him and ask him that Colin Sky <colinsky wrote: come on charles. make my day. go vegan. - Peter Wednesday, May 17, 2006 9:38 AM Re: Re: too much#$* & ^ Hi Louis >like what ideas ? While I'm no fan of Prince Charles, he does give a lot of support to renewable energy, protection of village communities, organic farming, alternative fuels, etc. So he does have some good points... BB Peter Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 20, 2006 Report Share Posted May 20, 2006 i think hunting is natural. i think life without the need to kill is even more intelligent. ( or super natural ). and perhaps the next stage in evolution.... - heartwerk Wednesday, May 17, 2006 7:00 PM Re: too much#$* & ^ Your questions are a little angled, and I am uncertain as to your angle. It seems to me that you think that it is okay for Charles to hunt and shoot animals - is that correct? (Do you hunt?) I don't think it is okay for Charles to hunt and shoot - I think I have made that fairly clear. I used to go hunt sabbing, so obviously disagree with it.You asked - Should I dislike blackbirds and thrushes because they hunt worms? Why would I do that? Jo , "Colin Sky" <colinsky wrote:>> hi jo. i am just sick of not liking people. are we not all conditioned by our upbringing? clones of our parents and their parents?> > should we also dislike blackbirds and thrushes because they hunt worms? Nice to know your thoughts on that one.> > peace> > colin.> > > - > heartwerk > > Tuesday, May 16, 2006 7:05 PM> Re: too much#$* & ^ > > Hi Colin> > I don't like Prince Charles - he is a fox and deer hunter, pheasant > shooter etc. etc. Whiel he has some good ideas he is not a > particularly kind person.> > Jo> > , "Colin Sky" <colinsky@> wrote:> >> > i am sorry to offend our leaders and others, accept my apologies. > some policies hurt. I must be more positive. leaders have a tough job > with so much depending on their leadership. > > > > we are all concerned about the future of nature and ourselves. > > > > Can there be peaceful solutions to all wars? A set of values by > which we all could live by, reducing the harm that is happening?> > > > What would it take for a world amnesty? Who could organise it?> > > > > > What we spend on war can be used on making the world better place > to live?> > > > the kings of this world and the people could negotiate a path > forward together>>>> could this happen?> > > > i like prince charles. he would be a thoughtful man to ask?> > > > > > peace> > > > colin> > > > ps. i am going to get off some of these news providers... i am > getting too much#$* & ^ > > > - > > Colin Sky > > > > Tuesday, May 16, 2006 11:01 AM> > Re: Animal Testing> > > > > > yeah i have steered clear too... what these people did was > shit... what blair has done to innocent people is shit too... > > > > selective justice rules...> > > > so yeah i really wanna stay clear. there is no justice only > revenge it seems.> > > > peace> > > > colin> > > > > > - > > fraggle > > > > Tuesday, May 16, 2006 7:32 AM> > Re: Animal Testing> > > > > > i've steered clear of ya'll discussion on this...> > but> > Animal testing is regulated by EU and British Law. The studies > are done> > under very controlled conditions. The Home Office regulates it > very tightly,> > it inspects animal houses for standards and hygiene > > > > yeah..and the SS ran a smack dab great system of concentration > camps as well....> > all very regulated> > > > > > > > >jo <jo.heartwork@>> > >May 14, 2006 7:57 AM> > > > > > Animal Testing> > >> > >Head to head: Animal testing> > >Tony Blair has publicly defended animal testing and accused > anti-vivisection> > >extremists of stooping to "appalling" depths. His comments > have been> > >applauded by scientists, but criticised by animal rights > campaigners.> > >Here, two people from each side give their views.> > >> > >> > >PROFESSOR CHRIS HIGGINS, DIRECTOR OF THE MEDICAL RESEARCH > COUNCIL CLINICAL> > >FINANCES CENTRE> > >> > >> > >> > >"I think it's really important to get such public support from > the Prime> > >Minister.> > >> > >These people - scientists, researchers and so on - are doing > fantastic work,> > >and they have been scared to go to work. It's very important > to get this> > >support because you can't have fear and intimidation of people > going about> > >their work in medicine.> > >> > >I think one of the most important things to understand is that > we have very> > >tight regulations on experiments undertaken on animals. They > are only> > >undertaken when there is no alternative, and they are made to > minimize any> > >suffering.> > >> > >Animal testing is regulated by EU and British Law. The studies > are done> > >under very controlled conditions. The Home Office regulates it > very tightly,> > >it inspects animal houses for standards and hygiene and > ensures studies are> > >not done if there is an alternative.> > >> > >The law requires numbers of animal experiments to ensure we > have safe> > >chemicals in the environment and safe medicines.> > >> > >The vast majority of experiments are done on mice or rats and > most people> > >consider these to be pests and put down nasty poisons for them.> > >> > >People who say we can use cells don't understand medicine. You > have to test> > >these cells on a whole body. Animals are always the end point.> > >> > >Many medicines come from animals, such as insulin which > originally came from> > >cows, and herceptin, which was developed from animals.> > >> > >It's a very straight forward and simple choice - if you want > new medicines> > >that are safe and effective we have to use animals.> > >> > >I would rather a new medicine was tested on a rat than tested > on my child.> > >Children's lives are more valuable than rats'."> > >> > >> > >ALISTAIR CURRIE, CAMPAIGN DIRECTOR FOR THE BRITISH UNION FOR > THE ABOLITION> > >OF VIVISECTION> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >"The prime minister is rightly taking a tough line on > extremists, but he is> > >not looking at the problems of animal testing.> > >> > >He is mixing the two up. The fact is that the public overall > are very> > >confused about animal experimentation. They are in favour of > medical> > >progress but they are against the suffering of animals.> > >> > >Before this government came to power, animal testing was going > down. Now> > >they are ignoring the fact that it is on the rise.> > >> > >Essentially animal experimentation causes great suffering to > millions of> > >animals in the UK, but doesn't produce the benefits to humans.> > >> > >The drugs which are used in the UK have been tested on animals > but that> > >doesn't mean they needed to be. This is a technology that is > decades old.> > >> > >We can use computer modelling, human tissue cells in the lab, > and> > >well-designed studies on human volunteers. All of these things > will tell us> > >what happens on humans, unlike animal studies - which don't.> > >> > >There is a conservatism in government and science that > says 'we should keep> > >using the old methods'.> > >> > >Ninety per cent of drugs that have been animal tested fail in > human> > >studies - they never actually make it onto the market, because > they don't> > >work.> > >> > >So the government is backing a system that fails.> > >> > >It is legal in this country to poison an animal to death, to > inflict brain> > >damage on it and surgically manipulate it. Mice given cancer > are suffering> > >severe pain and distress. Rats that are asphyxiated to death > are suffering> > >profoundly.> > >> > >The animal is small but the suffering is great."> > >> > >> > >> > >http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4769749.stm> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >To send an email to -> > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 20, 2006 Report Share Posted May 20, 2006 yeah it's getting cold and gloomy here. winter hard out starts june. persimmon just finished, picked the last six. just picked the last bunch of veganic bananas (60 of 'em) herbs are still okay. celery doing well, so are the lettuces. Tamarillos are still plentiful. cherimoya are coming along but the variety i have are a bit too seedy and are not in full sun, so only get 7/10... though the tree is magnificent and has lights over it to light up the garden path at night. were u talking to me? peace colin - peter hurd Thursday, May 18, 2006 4:59 AM Re: Re: too much#$* & ^ Spot on my friend.Hows your garden now? It is chucking it down here at the moment, the slugs and snails are loving it! The Valley Vegan.................fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote: of course this is for Jo to respond to and, on the one paw, i understand wot you are saying but...comparing the need of a bird to eat a worm to someone hunting for sport, doesn't really add up will the Prince starve if he doesn't jump on a horse and tear across the countryside with his uppercrust pals, scaring the beejeebers out of every critter in a league, and then settin the hounds upon wotever hapless fox gets caught in the way? Colin Sky May 16, 2006 4:02 PM Re: Re: too much#$* & ^ hi jo. i am just sick of not liking people. are we not all conditioned by our upbringing? clones of our parents and their parents? should we also dislike blackbirds and thrushes because they hunt worms? Nice to know your thoughts on that one. peace colin. - heartwerk Tuesday, May 16, 2006 7:05 PM Re: too much#$* & ^ Hi ColinI don't like Prince Charles - he is a fox and deer hunter, pheasant shooter etc. etc. Whiel he has some good ideas he is not a particularly kind person.Jo , "Colin Sky" <colinsky wrote:>> i am sorry to offend our leaders and others, accept my apologies. some policies hurt. I must be more positive. leaders have a tough job with so much depending on their leadership. > > we are all concerned about the future of nature and ourselves. > > Can there be peaceful solutions to all wars? A set of values by which we all could live by, reducing the harm that is happening?> > What would it take for a world amnesty? Who could organise it?> > > What we spend on war can be used on making the world better place to live?> > the kings of this world and the people could negotiate a path forward together>>>> could this happen?> > i like prince charles. he would be a thoughtful man to ask?> > > peace> > colin> > ps. i am going to get off some of these news providers... i am getting too much#$* & ^ > - > Colin Sky > > Tuesday, May 16, 2006 11:01 AM> Re: Animal Testing> > > yeah i have steered clear too... what these people did was shit... what blair has done to innocent people is shit too... > > selective justice rules...> > so yeah i really wanna stay clear. there is no justice only revenge it seems.> > peace> > colin> > > - > fraggle > > Tuesday, May 16, 2006 7:32 AM> Re: Animal Testing> > > i've steered clear of ya'll discussion on this...> but> Animal testing is regulated by EU and British Law. The studies are done> under very controlled conditions. The Home Office regulates it very tightly,> it inspects animal houses for standards and hygiene > > yeah..and the SS ran a smack dab great system of concentration camps as well....> all very regulated> > > > >jo <jo.heartwork> >May 14, 2006 7:57 AM> > > > Animal Testing> >> >Head to head: Animal testing> >Tony Blair has publicly defended animal testing and accused anti-vivisection> >extremists of stooping to "appalling" depths. His comments have been> >applauded by scientists, but criticised by animal rights campaigners.> >Here, two people from each side give their views.> >> >> >PROFESSOR CHRIS HIGGINS, DIRECTOR OF THE MEDICAL RESEARCH COUNCIL CLINICAL> >FINANCES CENTRE> >> >> >> >"I think it's really important to get such public support from the Prime> >Minister.> >> >These people - scientists, researchers and so on - are doing fantastic work,> >and they have been scared to go to work. It's very important to get this> >support because you can't have fear and intimidation of people going about> >their work in medicine.> >> >I think one of the most important things to understand is that we have very> >tight regulations on experiments undertaken on animals. They are only> >undertaken when there is no alternative, and they are made to minimize any> >suffering.> >> >Animal testing is regulated by EU and British Law. The studies are done> >under very controlled conditions. The Home Office regulates it very tightly,> >it inspects animal houses for standards and hygiene and ensures studies are> >not done if there is an alternative.> >> >The law requires numbers of animal experiments to ensure we have safe> >chemicals in the environment and safe medicines.> >> >The vast majority of experiments are done on mice or rats and most people> >consider these to be pests and put down nasty poisons for them.> >> >People who say we can use cells don't understand medicine. You have to test> >these cells on a whole body. Animals are always the end point.> >> >Many medicines come from animals, such as insulin which originally came from> >cows, and herceptin, which was developed from animals.> >> >It's a very straight forward and simple choice - if you want new medicines> >that are safe and effective we have to use animals.> >> >I would rather a new medicine was tested on a rat than tested on my child.> >Children's lives are more valuable than rats'."> >> >> >ALISTAIR CURRIE, CAMPAIGN DIRECTOR FOR THE BRITISH UNION FOR THE ABOLITION> >OF VIVISECTION> >> >> >> >> >"The prime minister is rightly taking a tough line on extremists, but he is> >not looking at the problems of animal testing.> >> >He is mixing the two up. The fact is that the public overall are very> >confused about animal experimentation. They are in favour of medical> >progress but they are against the suffering of animals.> >> >Before this government came to power, animal testing was going down. Now> >they are ignoring the fact that it is on the rise.> >> >Essentially animal experimentation causes great suffering to millions of> >animals in the UK, but doesn't produce the benefits to humans.> >> >The drugs which are used in the UK have been tested on animals but that> >doesn't mean they needed to be. This is a technology that is decades old.> >> >We can use computer modelling, human tissue cells in the lab, and> >well-designed studies on human volunteers. All of these things will tell us> >what happens on humans, unlike animal studies - which don't.> >> >There is a conservatism in government and science that says 'we should keep> >using the old methods'.> >> >Ninety per cent of drugs that have been animal tested fail in human> >studies - they never actually make it onto the market, because they don't> >work.> >> >So the government is backing a system that fails.> >> >It is legal in this country to poison an animal to death, to inflict brain> >damage on it and surgically manipulate it. Mice given cancer are suffering> >severe pain and distress. Rats that are asphyxiated to death are suffering> >profoundly.> >> >The animal is small but the suffering is great."> >> >> >> >http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4769749.stm> >> >> >> >> >To send an email to - > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 20, 2006 Report Share Posted May 20, 2006 i recently watched my father die... he thought i was a misrable vegan sod. an anti american (i loathed its politics). he taught me to thread worms on hooks to cruely capture fish for sport as a five year old. he died an ignorant man. he just never questioned the lunatics that are our peers. not many do. thank heaven for vegans. in spite of all that, he was a good friendly, honest person. it was a shame i couldn't respect him for it. i hope the next world wakes him up to the truth. - Anouk Sickler Thursday, May 18, 2006 5:38 PM Re: too much#$* & ^ I think that I know what you mean,lot of vegans hate too much and are too angry all of the timethis prevents them perhaps channeling their energies active positive expericiences and 'doing something about it'however, I just cannot love a hunter, or even understand them.I will always speak for the ones that have no voice and who give love unconditionally, whose lives are takenaway, just because someone can. I agree with you, that it is a good policy to tolerate (most) people. , "Colin Sky" <colinsky wrote:>> hi jo. i am just sick of not liking people. are we not allconditioned by our upbringing? clones of our parents and their parents?> > should we also dislike blackbirds and thrushes because they huntworms? Nice to know your thoughts on that one.> > peace> > colin.> > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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