Guest guest Posted May 23, 2006 Report Share Posted May 23, 2006 hi... thanks amanda and danyl for bringing this to my notice, the ethics of . ( which along with most business's and governments (it has to be said,) is not that great... and we already know that...) but back to ...what do vegans think about this topic and what should we do about it? see below for the full story so far.... this topic is for open discussion. your thoughts are precious and appreciated. there must be pros and cons to consider. it would be nice to have them out in the open so we can decide what is best for us as a group of fellow believers. i have bcc'd this to three of the vegan chat sites i am on (with ) with a total readership of 1400? vegan folk... we / i would be interested to know the ' wider vegan opinion ' ? and those of other owners / moderators... what do u think? please share your thoughts. peace colinz - " Amanda " <loki1 <strypey Cc: <colinsky Monday, May 22, 2006 12:10 PM Re: Invitation to join the Veganzchat group > Hari Om Danyl > Thank you for bringing this to our attention. I wasn't aware of 's > involvement in human rights issues and it didn't take too much searching > to > bring up articles by Amnesty etc on 's clear breach of privacy and > human > rights by supporting draconian censorship systems like those operated in > China. > I have cc'd the co-moderator and " owner " of the group, Colin, in on my > reply to > you for him to action as he sees fit. I would be more than happy to move > to > www.enzyme.org.nz, they also support Auckland Animal Action, and am going > to > make that suggestion to other groups I belong to on . As someone who > tries > very hard to live in a way that has minimal negative impact on animals, > planet > and people and so boycotts companies all over the place!, I am horrified > about > my ignorance on this and thank you again for letting us know. > Namaste, > Amanda > > Quoting " strypey " <strypey: > >> Kia ora Amanda >> >> Thanks for the invite. I am loath to use Groups as have >> been implicated in the helping the Chinese government track down >> Freedom of Information activists. Also email addresses put into the >> system tend to become a target for spam. There are plenty of >> independent, nonprofit activist-run email list services like >> Riseup.net, MutualAid.org and others including Aoteaora-based >> http://eNZyme.org.nz/ that would host VeganzChat for free/ koha and I >> think it's part of responsible activism to support services that >> support information freedom. >> >> In the meantime would you be able to send an invite to my other >> address strypey? This address is already placed onto >> websites and things so it's already as vulnerable to spam as it's >> going to get >> >> RnB >> Danyl Strype >> >> Quoting Veganzchat moderator <Veganzchat-owner >: >> >> > >> > Hello strypey, >> > >> > loki1 has invited to join the Veganzchat group >> > hosted by , a free, easy-to-use community service. >> > >> > By joining Veganzchat, you will be able to exchange >> > messages with other group members, store photos and files, >> > coordinate events and more. >> > >> > This invitation will expire in 30 days. >> > >> > Here's an introductory message from loki1: >> > >> ------ >> >> > >> > Kia ora >> > Welcome to Veganzchat - please to join. >> > Namaste, >> > Amanda >> > >> > >> ------ >> >> > >> > JOIN NOW, IT'S EASY: >> > >> > 1) Go to the site by clicking on this link: >> > >> > >> /i?i=2tlKKUkl5GjbmoTBvLvTQVPT0aE & e=strypey%40riseup%2Enet >> > >> > (If clicking doesn't work, " Cut " and " Paste " the line above into your >> > Web browser's address bar.) >> > >> > -OR- >> > >> > 2) REPLY to this email by clicking " Reply " and then " Send " >> > in your email program >> > >> > If you do not wish to join the Veganzchat group, please >> > ignore this invitation. >> > >> > Report abuse: >> > >> ------ >> >> > is a free service that allows you to stay in touch with >> > friends and family or meet new people who share your interests. >> > values your privacy. It is a violation of our service >> > rules for Groups members to abuse this invitation feature. If you >> feel >> > this has happened, please notify us: >> > >> > >> > You may also change your email preferences to stop receiving group >> > invitations in the future. To do so, please go here: >> > >> > /s?tag=TcoX7zkTnhHjFATjL6iyUBwtYCBn789hCUxLuVMlwS1ZCQ-XbG\ zivl-JilG-RwgCZ-Pw-PzG1UQ >> > >> > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 23, 2006 Report Share Posted May 23, 2006 I may be thick but the meaning of this stream of emails has eluded me. It may be better to send one email, addressed to this group, with the basic details. Jo - " Colin Sky " <colinsky " ^*+ " <colinsky Tuesday, May 23, 2006 12:13 AM Vegans Questioning ? > hi... > > thanks amanda and danyl for bringing this to my notice, the ethics of . > ( which along with most business's and governments (it has to be said,) is > not that great... and we already know that...) > > but back to ...what do vegans think about this topic and what should we > do about it? see below for the full story so far.... > > this topic is for open discussion. > > your thoughts are precious and appreciated. there must be pros and cons to > consider. > > it would be nice to have them out in the open so we can decide what is best > for us as a group of fellow believers. > > i have bcc'd this to three of the vegan chat sites i am on (with ) with > a total readership of 1400? vegan folk... > > we / i would be interested to know the ' wider vegan opinion ' ? and those > of other owners / moderators... > > what do u think? please share your thoughts. > > peace > > colinz > > > - > " Amanda " <loki1 > <strypey > Cc: <colinsky > Monday, May 22, 2006 12:10 PM > Re: Invitation to join the Veganzchat group > > > > Hari Om Danyl > > Thank you for bringing this to our attention. I wasn't aware of 's > > involvement in human rights issues and it didn't take too much searching > > to > > bring up articles by Amnesty etc on 's clear breach of privacy and > > human > > rights by supporting draconian censorship systems like those operated in > > China. > > I have cc'd the co-moderator and " owner " of the group, Colin, in on my > > reply to > > you for him to action as he sees fit. I would be more than happy to move > > to > > www.enzyme.org.nz, they also support Auckland Animal Action, and am going > > to > > make that suggestion to other groups I belong to on . As someone who > > tries > > very hard to live in a way that has minimal negative impact on animals, > > planet > > and people and so boycotts companies all over the place!, I am horrified > > about > > my ignorance on this and thank you again for letting us know. > > Namaste, > > Amanda > > > > Quoting " strypey " <strypey: > > > >> Kia ora Amanda > >> > >> Thanks for the invite. I am loath to use Groups as have > >> been implicated in the helping the Chinese government track down > >> Freedom of Information activists. Also email addresses put into the > >> system tend to become a target for spam. There are plenty of > >> independent, nonprofit activist-run email list services like > >> Riseup.net, MutualAid.org and others including Aoteaora-based > >> http://eNZyme.org.nz/ that would host VeganzChat for free/ koha and I > >> think it's part of responsible activism to support services that > >> support information freedom. > >> > >> In the meantime would you be able to send an invite to my other > >> address strypey? This address is already placed onto > >> websites and things so it's already as vulnerable to spam as it's > >> going to get > >> > >> RnB > >> Danyl Strype > >> > >> Quoting Veganzchat moderator <Veganzchat-owner >: > >> > >> > > >> > Hello strypey, > >> > > >> > loki1 has invited to join the Veganzchat group > >> > hosted by , a free, easy-to-use community service. > >> > > >> > By joining Veganzchat, you will be able to exchange > >> > messages with other group members, store photos and files, > >> > coordinate events and more. > >> > > >> > This invitation will expire in 30 days. > >> > > >> > Here's an introductory message from loki1: > >> > > >> ------ > >> > >> > > >> > Kia ora > >> > Welcome to Veganzchat - please to join. > >> > Namaste, > >> > Amanda > >> > > >> > > >> ------ > >> > >> > > >> > JOIN NOW, IT'S EASY: > >> > > >> > 1) Go to the site by clicking on this link: > >> > > >> > > >> /i?i=2tlKKUkl5GjbmoTBvLvTQVPT0aE & e=strypey%40riseup%2 Enet > >> > > >> > (If clicking doesn't work, " Cut " and " Paste " the line above into your > >> > Web browser's address bar.) > >> > > >> > -OR- > >> > > >> > 2) REPLY to this email by clicking " Reply " and then " Send " > >> > in your email program > >> > > >> > If you do not wish to join the Veganzchat group, please > >> > ignore this invitation. > >> > > >> > Report abuse: > >> > > >> ------ > >> > >> > is a free service that allows you to stay in touch with > >> > friends and family or meet new people who share your interests. > >> > values your privacy. It is a violation of our service > >> > rules for Groups members to abuse this invitation feature. If you > >> feel > >> > this has happened, please notify us: > >> > > >> > > >> > You may also change your email preferences to stop receiving group > >> > invitations in the future. To do so, please go here: > >> > > >> > > /s?tag=TcoX7zkTnhHjFATjL6iyUBwtYCBn789hCUxLuVMlwS1ZCQ -XbGzivl-JilG-RwgCZ-Pw-PzG1UQ > >> > > >> > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 24, 2006 Report Share Posted May 24, 2006 from what I understand, colin, or someone else, is saying that hands over information (email addresese, names of people) to the government or fbi at the drop of a hat. and that perhaps we should use other list servers like riseup.net, which is run by activists. my question is then, why wouldn't the FBI infiltrate them also? and also, if there is any other evils that engages in please let us know. , " jo " <jo.heartwork wrote: > > I may be thick but the meaning of this stream of emails has eluded me. It > may be better to send one email, addressed to this group, with the basic > details. > > Jo > > - > " Colin Sky " <colinsky > " ^*+ " <colinsky > Tuesday, May 23, 2006 12:13 AM > Vegans Questioning ? > > > > hi... > > > > thanks amanda and danyl for bringing this to my notice, the ethics of > . > > ( which along with most business's and governments (it has to be said,) is > > not that great... and we already know that...) > > > > but back to ...what do vegans think about this topic and what should > we > > do about it? see below for the full story so far.... > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 24, 2006 Report Share Posted May 24, 2006 I think it is obvious that all internet groups will be monitored by our beloved leaders, so I don't see any point in changing. is the one that people search most to find groups to join, and we are a chat group - not organising activism or any threat to any government. Jo , " Anouk Sickler " <zurumato wrote: > > from what I understand, > > colin, or someone else, is saying that > hands over information (email addresese, names of people) > to the government or fbi at the drop of a hat. > > and that perhaps we should use other list servers > like riseup.net, which is run by activists. > > my question is then, why wouldn't the FBI infiltrate them also? > and also, if there is any other evils that engages in > please let us know. > > > > , " jo " <jo.heartwork@> wrote: > > > > I may be thick but the meaning of this stream of emails has eluded > me. It > > may be better to send one email, addressed to this group, with the basic > > details. > > > > Jo > > > > - > > " Colin Sky " <colinsky@> > > " ^*+ " <colinsky@> > > Tuesday, May 23, 2006 12:13 AM > > Vegans Questioning ? > > > > > > > hi... > > > > > > thanks amanda and danyl for bringing this to my notice, the ethics of > > . > > > ( which along with most business's and governments (it has to be > said,) is > > > not that great... and we already know that...) > > > > > > but back to ...what do vegans think about this topic and what > should > > we > > > do about it? see below for the full story so far.... > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 24, 2006 Report Share Posted May 24, 2006 hi anouk... i can only say that several of our members have questioned over human rights issues and some stuff apparently from amnesty that it put out. i am the owner of a group so have just listened to their concerns but have not researched the matter myself. so sorry i cannot elaborate. however after putting the question out there for comment i have now had the offer of a vegan server who also is an excellent vegan and animal rights spokesperson, as well as a personal friend... so i am tempted to change just to move my business to a vegan source. but yes it does make sense to me to at least consider more like-minded servers. i do not know about riseup.net but yes it seems the world is reaching critical mass and we should surely gather where our like are gathered? thanks for taking my email seriously even though in the mad rush of whizzing through over 200 emails i sent off the poorly edited post... ;-) sorry jo.... as for , i am personally grateful for the good service they have given me in the past, but given that i am with a highly ethical group, and that some want to move to higher ground...? i may just do that... but anyway, somebody yet might do some serious research and give us more info on the topic... let's hope so. i will keep u informed to what we do next. peace colin ps. i enjoy your posts. for quite awhile i thought u were a guy. as for being spied upon. i fully expect all govt. departments of most nations to keep tabs on me and to be even inside this computer that i am writing from. remembering that animal rights persons, peace activists etc, are now considered to be quite closely related to terrorists.... this is well documented. i think at the last terrorist convention it was stated that any group that threatened commerce could be deemed a terrorist. so when i protest for instance against inhumanely caged animals... i threaten a nations cashflow>>>> mmmm.... so yeah... personally i don't too much care about passing on my details, i expect it anyhow. - Anouk Sickler Wednesday, May 24, 2006 6:14 PM Re: Vegans Questioning ? from what I understand,colin, or someone else, is saying that hands over information (email addresese, names of people) to the government or fbi at the drop of a hat.and that perhaps we should use other list serverslike riseup.net, which is run by activists.my question is then, why wouldn't the FBI infiltrate them also?and also, if there is any other evils that engages inplease let us know. , "jo" <jo.heartwork wrote:>> I may be thick but the meaning of this stream of emails has eludedme. It> may be better to send one email, addressed to this group, with the basic> details.> > Jo> > -> "Colin Sky" <colinsky> "^*+" <colinsky> Tuesday, May 23, 2006 12:13 AM> Vegans Questioning ?> > > > hi...> >> > thanks amanda and danyl for bringing this to my notice, the ethics of> .> > ( which along with most business's and governments (it has to besaid,) is> > not that great... and we already know that...)> >> > but back to ...what do vegans think about this topic and whatshould> we> > do about it? see below for the full story so far....> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 24, 2006 Report Share Posted May 24, 2006 Hi Anouk >colin, or someone else, is saying that> hands over information (email addresese, names of people)>to the government or fbi at the drop of a hat. I look at it like this.... these details are easily available to hackers anyway (just a few months back someone actually used *my* e-mail address to post to this list!). We don't actually pay anything to , so it's not like we're actually supporting them, and it is the place a lot of people go to look for groups, so we can do some good through them.... BB Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 24, 2006 Report Share Posted May 24, 2006 these are good points to consider. thankyou. - heartwerk Wednesday, May 24, 2006 6:44 PM Re: Vegans Questioning ? I think it is obvious that all internet groups will be monitored by our beloved leaders, so I don't see any point in changing. is the one that people search most to find groups to join, and we are a chat group - not organising activism or any threat to any government.Jo , "Anouk Sickler" <zurumato wrote:>> from what I understand,> > colin, or someone else, is saying that > hands over information (email addresese, names of people) > to the government or fbi at the drop of a hat.> > and that perhaps we should use other list servers> like riseup.net, which is run by activists.> > my question is then, why wouldn't the FBI infiltrate them also?> and also, if there is any other evils that engages in> please let us know. > > > > , "jo" <jo.heartwork@> wrote:> >> > I may be thick but the meaning of this stream of emails has eluded> me. It> > may be better to send one email, addressed to this group, with the basic> > details.> > > > Jo> > > > -> > "Colin Sky" <colinsky@>> > "^*+" <colinsky@>> > Tuesday, May 23, 2006 12:13 AM> > Vegans Questioning ?> > > > > > > hi...> > >> > > thanks amanda and danyl for bringing this to my notice, the ethics of> > .> > > ( which along with most business's and governments (it has to be> said,) is> > > not that great... and we already know that...)> > >> > > but back to ...what do vegans think about this topic and what> should> > we> > > do about it? see below for the full story so far....> > >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 24, 2006 Report Share Posted May 24, 2006 I think that you have hit the nail on the head, no server is secure, no matter what they tell you, anyone determined enough can access anything. Big brother is watching! It dont matter which carrier/SP you use. The Valley Vegan................Anouk Sickler <zurumato wrote: from what I understand,colin, or someone else, is saying that hands over information (email addresese, names of people) to the government or fbi at the drop of a hat.and that perhaps we should use other list serverslike riseup.net, which is run by activists.my question is then, why wouldn't the FBI infiltrate them also?and also, if there is any other evils that engages inplease let us know. , "jo" wrote:>> I may be thick but the meaning of this stream of emails has eludedme. It> may be better to send one email, addressed to this group, with the basic> details.> > Jo> > -> "Colin Sky" > "^*+" > Tuesday, May 23, 2006 12:13 AM> Vegans Questioning ?> > > > hi...> >> > thanks amanda and danyl for bringing this to my notice, the ethics of> .> > ( which along with most business's and governments (it has to besaid,) is> > not that great... and we already know that...)> >> > but back to ...what do vegans think about this topic and whatshould> we> > do about it? see below for the full story so far....> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 24, 2006 Report Share Posted May 24, 2006 i asure, i am a girl, i think i have sent pictures of me before.. as for them spying on us, and RFID tags. a song is always in my head by U2. it is about Martin Luther King. here it goes.... early morning, april 4, shots ring out in the memphis sky. (They took you life they could not take your pride) there it is. that parenthsis is the most powerful sentence that I have ever heard in a song!!!!!!!!!! it means.. they can follow me..spy on me.. tag me... persecute me... condemn me... etc. but they will never have my soul. btw, the name of the song is " In the name of Love " and it is from the 80's. , " Colin Sky " <colinsky wrote: > > colin > > ps. i enjoy your posts. for quite awhile i thought u were a guy. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 26, 2006 Report Share Posted May 26, 2006 more on the subject for those that asked. - " Amanda " <loki1 " Colin Sky " <colinsky Thursday, May 25, 2006 8:01 AM Re: Re: Vegans Questioning ? > Yes good points, but my response is this: Evil happens when good men ( & > women!) > do nothing... > If people actually researched what did, they might have a different > view, > a young Chinese man is spending 10 years in prison for sending an email to > someone in the US expressing his discontent, much the same as if I sent an > email > to the UK saying how unhappy I was at the latest budget...Its not about > the > groups being monitored or " infiltrated " , what happened was that > handed > over all this guys account info and email records when asked by the > Chinese Govt > without any regard for what would happen to him as a result. If > knows > they are losing business as a result of their human rights violations, > they > might not do this the next time they are asked.... > Forward this on if you want, but that is just my thoughts on the below > commments : ) > > Quoting Colin Sky <colinsky: > >> these are good points to consider. thankyou. >> - >> heartwerk >> >> Wednesday, May 24, 2006 6:44 PM >> Re: Vegans Questioning ? >> >> >> I think it is obvious that all internet groups will be monitored by >> our beloved leaders, so I don't see any point in changing. is >> the one that people search most to find groups to join, and we are a >> chat group - not organising activism or any threat to any government. >> >> Jo >> >> , " Anouk Sickler " <zurumato >> wrote: >> > >> > from what I understand, >> > >> > colin, or someone else, is saying that >> > hands over information (email addresese, names of people) >> > to the government or fbi at the drop of a hat. >> > >> > and that perhaps we should use other list servers >> > like riseup.net, which is run by activists. >> > >> > my question is then, why wouldn't the FBI infiltrate them also? >> > and also, if there is any other evils that engages in >> > please let us know. >> > >> > >> > >> > , " jo " <jo.heartwork@> wrote: >> > > >> > > I may be thick but the meaning of this stream of emails has eluded >> > me. It >> > > may be better to send one email, addressed to this group, with >> the basic >> > > details. >> > > >> > > Jo >> > > >> > > - >> > > " Colin Sky " <colinsky@> >> > > " ^*+ " <colinsky@> >> > > Tuesday, May 23, 2006 12:13 AM >> > > Vegans Questioning ? >> > > >> > > >> > > > hi... >> > > > >> > > > thanks amanda and danyl for bringing this to my notice, the >> ethics of >> > > . >> > > > ( which along with most business's and governments (it has to be >> > said,) is >> > > > not that great... and we already know that...) >> > > > >> > > > but back to ...what do vegans think about this topic and >> what >> > should >> > > we >> > > > do about it? see below for the full story so far.... >> > > > >> > > >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> To send an email to - >> >> >> >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 26, 2006 Report Share Posted May 26, 2006 I think you need to campaign against the Chinese government who, apparently, violate all human rights. Jo - " Colin Sky " <colinsky Friday, May 26, 2006 10:18 AM Fw: Re: Vegans Questioning ? > more on the subject for those that asked. > > > - > " Amanda " <loki1 > " Colin Sky " <colinsky > Thursday, May 25, 2006 8:01 AM > Re: Re: Vegans Questioning ? > > > > Yes good points, but my response is this: Evil happens when good men ( & > > women!) > > do nothing... > > If people actually researched what did, they might have a different > > view, > > a young Chinese man is spending 10 years in prison for sending an email to > > someone in the US expressing his discontent, much the same as if I sent an > > email > > to the UK saying how unhappy I was at the latest budget...Its not about > > the > > groups being monitored or " infiltrated " , what happened was that > > handed > > over all this guys account info and email records when asked by the > > Chinese Govt > > without any regard for what would happen to him as a result. If > > knows > > they are losing business as a result of their human rights violations, > > they > > might not do this the next time they are asked.... > > Forward this on if you want, but that is just my thoughts on the below > > commments : ) > > > > Quoting Colin Sky <colinsky: > > > >> these are good points to consider. thankyou. > >> - > >> heartwerk > >> > >> Wednesday, May 24, 2006 6:44 PM > >> Re: Vegans Questioning ? > >> > >> > >> I think it is obvious that all internet groups will be monitored by > >> our beloved leaders, so I don't see any point in changing. is > >> the one that people search most to find groups to join, and we are a > >> chat group - not organising activism or any threat to any government. > >> > >> Jo > >> > >> , " Anouk Sickler " <zurumato > >> wrote: > >> > > >> > from what I understand, > >> > > >> > colin, or someone else, is saying that > >> > hands over information (email addresese, names of people) > >> > to the government or fbi at the drop of a hat. > >> > > >> > and that perhaps we should use other list servers > >> > like riseup.net, which is run by activists. > >> > > >> > my question is then, why wouldn't the FBI infiltrate them also? > >> > and also, if there is any other evils that engages in > >> > please let us know. > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > , " jo " <jo.heartwork@> wrote: > >> > > > >> > > I may be thick but the meaning of this stream of emails has eluded > >> > me. It > >> > > may be better to send one email, addressed to this group, with > >> the basic > >> > > details. > >> > > > >> > > Jo > >> > > > >> > > - > >> > > " Colin Sky " <colinsky@> > >> > > " ^*+ " <colinsky@> > >> > > Tuesday, May 23, 2006 12:13 AM > >> > > Vegans Questioning ? > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > hi... > >> > > > > >> > > > thanks amanda and danyl for bringing this to my notice, the > >> ethics of > >> > > . > >> > > > ( which along with most business's and governments (it has to be > >> > said,) is > >> > > > not that great... and we already know that...) > >> > > > > >> > > > but back to ...what do vegans think about this topic and > >> what > >> > should > >> > > we > >> > > > do about it? see below for the full story so far.... > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> To send an email to - > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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