Guest guest Posted March 30, 2007 Report Share Posted March 30, 2007 is a mess lately, i come on the vegan chat website and it is hard to keep track of who said what. I love and hate . without it I wouldn't have met you guys and feel that I have support " out there " for the way that I am, even though I have never met you guys. and that I am not alone. yet causes problems. I am glad that peter is working hard on his ph.d. I am taking night classes at a slow pace, but some day i will get there regards -anouk , " jo " <jo.heartwork wrote: > > Louis > > Who are you replying to here? > > Jo > - > louis stott > > Thursday, March 29, 2007 9:10 AM > Re: Re: new here! > > > sorry if it sounded rode i was jist tryin to put my point in bout the por fish . > > heartwerk <jo.heartwork wrote: > Hi Tammy > > Welcome to Vegan Chat. I hope you enjoy it here. > > I presume that you are intending eventually to give up eating fish as > well. Fish was the last animal we gave up eating. I can't think why > though. > > Jo > > , Tammy Schlingman <tambi_4@> > wrote: > > > > Hello all I am new to this group. I recently converted to a > Pescatarian. > > > > I am a soon to be married again mom of four. I live in Florida > and look forward to getting to know you all. :-) > > > > Tammy > > > > > > > > The fish are biting. > > Get more visitors on your site using Search Marketing. > > > > > > > > > > The all-new Mail goes wherever you go - free your email address from your Internet provider. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 30, 2007 Report Share Posted March 30, 2007 Hi Anouk I agree. It is good to be able to chat to like minded people :-) I hope your studies go well. Jo , " flower child " <zurumato wrote: > > > is a mess lately, > > i come on the vegan chat website and it is hard to keep > track of who said what. > > I love and hate . > without it I wouldn't have met you guys and feel that > I have support " out there " for the way that I am, even > though I have never met you guys. > and that I am not alone. > > yet causes problems. > > I am glad that peter is working hard on his ph.d. > I am taking night classes at a slow pace, but some day > i will get there > > regards > -anouk > > , " jo " <jo.heartwork@> wrote: > > > > Louis > > > > Who are you replying to here? > > > > Jo > > - > > louis stott > > > > Thursday, March 29, 2007 9:10 AM > > Re: Re: new here! > > > > > > sorry if it sounded rode i was jist tryin to put my point in bout > the por fish . > > > > heartwerk <jo.heartwork@> wrote: > > Hi Tammy > > > > Welcome to Vegan Chat. I hope you enjoy it here. > > > > I presume that you are intending eventually to give up eating > fish as > > well. Fish was the last animal we gave up eating. I can't think why > > though. > > > > Jo > > > > , Tammy Schlingman <tambi_4@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Hello all I am new to this group. I recently converted to a > > Pescatarian. > > > > > > I am a soon to be married again mom of four. I live in Florida > > and look forward to getting to know you all. :-) > > > > > > Tammy > > > > > > > > > > > > The fish are biting. > > > Get more visitors on your site using Search Marketing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- ---------- > > The all-new Mail goes wherever you go - free your email > address from your Internet provider. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 30, 2007 Report Share Posted March 30, 2007 It is not only preferable not to eat animals - if you call yourself vegan or even vegetarian, then you must not eat them. I'm not sure about the cruelty aspect though. Taking a life is cruel. Do we know what happens to these animals when they are collected/killed? I know lobsters and crabs are boiled alive. Jo , " Oom Yaaqub " <oomyaaqub wrote: > > [[They are still animals though - and a person cannot call themselves vegan or vegetarian if they are eating them. Incidentally a friend of mine runs a society for the protection of crustaceans.]] > > Well, clams are mollusks. In any case, I think in terms of cruelty, not labels. I think the horrors of factory farming are such that it makes little sense to eat eggs and milk--if anything, MORE cruelty is involved, unless you buy directly from some farm that is humane. Drinking milk from the grocery store is a lot worse than eating a deer killed by a hunter, since at least that deer had a life before it was killed. But of course, it is preferable to consume no animal products. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 30, 2007 Report Share Posted March 30, 2007 Some thoughts: If one chooses not to consume animals because of cruelty issues, then the true goal of veganism--the abolition of animal exploitation--is defeated. If one chooses not to eat animals based on the fact that it is wrong, that ALL animals (crustaceans included) have an inherent right not to be treated as our property to exploit in any fashion, then we hit upon the true meaning of veganism. What is so dangerous about focusing on cruelty factors alone is that all the campaigns out there to produce " humane " or " compassionate " meat gain the upper hand, as well as sweeping up those who may be considering a vegan lifestyle (I cannot tell you how many times I've heard from friends, who know I'm vegan, that now they only buy " free-range " or " happy " meat. It's as if they are telling me so I approve of their choices, based on my veganism. No, there is a very confusing message out there...) But when one chooses not to consume animals and promotes a rights-based theory (yes, Gary Francione is my hero) then we are truly working towards the abolition of animal exploitation. (Am I repeating myself here?) So whether an oyster is sentient or not, I choose not to eat it. It is simply not mine to consume. The oyster is a viable being in its own right and deserves to be treated as such. These are my thoughts, and I say them lovingly --- Oom Yaaqub <oomyaaqub wrote: > [[They are still animals though - and a person > cannot call themselves vegan or vegetarian if they > are eating them. Incidentally a friend of mine runs > a society for the protection of crustaceans.]] > > Well, clams are mollusks. In any case, I think in > terms of cruelty, not labels. I think the horrors of > factory farming are such that it makes little sense > to eat eggs and milk--if anything, MORE cruelty is > involved, unless you buy directly from some farm > that is humane. Drinking milk from the grocery store > is a lot worse than eating a deer killed by a > hunter, since at least that deer had a life before > it was killed. But of course, it is preferable to > consume no animal products. > ______________________________\ ____ 8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time with the Search movie showtime shortcut. http://tools.search./shortcuts/#news Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 30, 2007 Report Share Posted March 30, 2007 Hi Anouk, Yes I would like to think that we are all here for each other. I hope your studies go well. The Valley Vegan.............flower child <zurumato wrote: is a mess lately, i come on the vegan chat website and it is hard to keep track of who said what.I love and hate . without it I wouldn't have met you guys and feel that I have support "out there" for the way that I am, even though I have never met you guys.and that I am not alone. yet causes problems. I am glad that peter is working hard on his ph.d.I am taking night classes at a slow pace, but some day i will get there :)regards-anouk , "jo" <jo.heartwork wrote:>> Louis> > Who are you replying to here?> > Jo> - > louis stott > > Thursday, March 29, 2007 9:10 AM> Re: Re: new here!> > > sorry if it sounded rode i was jist tryin to put my point in boutthe por fish . > > heartwerk <jo.heartwork wrote: > Hi Tammy> > Welcome to Vegan Chat. I hope you enjoy it here.> > I presume that you are intending eventually to give up eatingfish as > well. Fish was the last animal we gave up eating. I can't think why > though.> > Jo> > , Tammy Schlingman <tambi_4@> > wrote:> >> > Hello all I am new to this group. I recently converted to a > Pescatarian. > > > > I am a soon to be married again mom of four. I live in Florida > and look forward to getting to know you all. :-)> > > > Tammy> > > > > > > > The fish are biting.> > Get more visitors on your site using Search Marketing.> >> > > > > > >-------------------------> The all-new Mail goes wherever you go - free your emailaddress from your Internet provider.>Peter H The all-new Mail goes wherever you go - free your email address from your Internet provider. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 31, 2007 Report Share Posted March 31, 2007 [[What is so dangerous about focusing on cruelty factorsalone is that all the campaigns out there to produce"humane" or "compassionate" meat gain the upper hand,as well as sweeping up those who may be considering avegan lifestyle (I cannot tell you how many times I'veheard from friends, who know I'm vegan, that now theyonly buy "free-range" or "happy" meat. It's as if theyare telling me so I approve of their choices, based onmy veganism. No, there is a very confusing message outthere...)]] I always make a point of telling people that unless they buy directly from a farmer they know personally, then they CANNOT know the animal was humanely treated. Better yet, they raise the animal THEMSELVES and handle all details of care including butchering. For example, "cage free" usually still means the chickens lived in overcrowded sheds and never saw the light of day. I am not always believed, but I try. [[so whether an oyster is sentient or not, I choose notto eat it. It is simply not mine to consume. Theoyster is a viable being in its own right and deservesto be treated as such.]] Well, I guess the only problem with that is that you could use the same argument about a carrot, and then what would you eat? (I won't even comment about pearls, which serve no useful function.) I do agree that we're not absolutely SURE a clam or oyster isn't sentient, so it should be an ultimate vegan goal not to eat them. I'm just saying that if you are still "getting there", it is kinder to eat clam linguine than to drink a glass of milk. All dairy calves are taken away at birth, and nearly all the males are either slaughtered immediately or turned into veal, which amounts to unspeakable cruelty to an obviously sentient creature. Even when it comes to human beings, I tend to focus on cruelty, not just rights. For example, I may have the legal "right" not to call the police if I see someone breaking into my neighbor's home, but it would still be cruel, and wrong, not to do so. Just my opinion, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 1, 2007 Report Share Posted April 1, 2007 Well said, Laura. Jo - " Laura " <laurakist Friday, March 30, 2007 2:55 PM Re: Re: new here! > Some thoughts: > > If one chooses not to consume animals because of > cruelty issues, then the true goal of veganism--the > abolition of animal exploitation--is defeated. If one > chooses not to eat animals based on the fact that it > is wrong, that ALL animals (crustaceans included) have > an inherent right not to be treated as our property to > exploit in any fashion, then we hit upon the true > meaning of veganism. > > What is so dangerous about focusing on cruelty factors > alone is that all the campaigns out there to produce > " humane " or " compassionate " meat gain the upper hand, > as well as sweeping up those who may be considering a > vegan lifestyle (I cannot tell you how many times I've > heard from friends, who know I'm vegan, that now they > only buy " free-range " or " happy " meat. It's as if they > are telling me so I approve of their choices, based on > my veganism. No, there is a very confusing message out > there...) > > But when one chooses not to consume animals and > promotes a rights-based theory (yes, Gary Francione is > my hero) then we are truly working towards the > abolition of animal exploitation. (Am I repeating > myself here?) > > So whether an oyster is sentient or not, I choose not > to eat it. It is simply not mine to consume. The > oyster is a viable being in its own right and deserves > to be treated as such. > > These are my thoughts, and I say them lovingly > > --- Oom Yaaqub <oomyaaqub wrote: > > > [[They are still animals though - and a person > > cannot call themselves vegan or vegetarian if they > > are eating them. Incidentally a friend of mine runs > > a society for the protection of crustaceans.]] > > > > Well, clams are mollusks. In any case, I think in > > terms of cruelty, not labels. I think the horrors of > > factory farming are such that it makes little sense > > to eat eggs and milk--if anything, MORE cruelty is > > involved, unless you buy directly from some farm > > that is humane. Drinking milk from the grocery store > > is a lot worse than eating a deer killed by a > > hunter, since at least that deer had a life before > > it was killed. But of course, it is preferable to > > consume no animal products. > > > > > > > __________________________ ________ > 8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time > with the Search movie showtime shortcut. > http://tools.search./shortcuts/#news > > > To send an email to - > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 4, 2008 Report Share Posted July 4, 2008 Hi all! I'm new to this group! I'm not new to being a vegetarian though, I was pretty much raised a vegetarian and when I became a teenager started eating meat, and recently my hubby and I decided to go back to being vegetarian! We have a two year old daughter now, so it's mostly a health thing for us. Anyway, I have a question. We are planning to visit Chicago for our anniversary and was wondering if anyone here could recommend some good restaraunts? If they deliver all the better! Thanks! Randi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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