Guest guest Posted July 10, 2006 Report Share Posted July 10, 2006 oh peter peter peter you sure you weren't a minor grammar Deity in a past life? Grammaritus, god of Thessalian teachers..... Peter Jul 10, 2006 1:14 PM Re: Fw: Perception or truth? Hi Fraggle >as People Seek a More Healthful Lifestyle OK, I just have to say it... "Healthful"???????? What the heck happened to the perfectly good "healthy"? BB Peter Defending this corruption on which you are sat You tell me what to think, you tell me this and that `Freedom is O.K. you scum` but make sure it`s never used In your defence of liberty I always stand accused Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 10, 2006 Report Share Posted July 10, 2006 The American Heritage® Book of English Usage. A Practical and Authoritative Guide to Contemporary English. 1996. 3. Word Choice: New Uses, Common Confusion, and Constraints § 156. healthy / healthful Some people like to maintain a distinction between healthy and healthful. Healthy, they say, should be used to mean “possessing good health,” and only healthful should mean “conducive to good health.” People who hold this view are swimming against the tide of history, for healthy has been used to mean “healthful” since the 16th century. You can find the “healthful” use of healthy in the works of many distinguished writers, with this example from John Locke being typical: “Gardening … and working in wood, are fit and healthy recreations for a man of study or business.” Therefore, both healthy and healthful are correct in these contexts: a healthy climate, a healthful climate; a healthful diet, a healthy diet. 1 The American Heritage® Book of English Usage. 1996 by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved. fraggle Jul 10, 2006 1:23 PM Re: Fw: grammar or truth? oh peter peter peter you sure you weren't a minor grammar Deity in a past life? Grammaritus, god of Thessalian teachers..... Peter Jul 10, 2006 1:14 PM Re: Fw: Perception or truth? Hi Fraggle >as People Seek a More Healthful Lifestyle OK, I just have to say it... "Healthful"???????? What the heck happened to the perfectly good "healthy"? BB Peter Defending this corruption on which you are sat You tell me what to think, you tell me this and that `Freedom is O.K. you scum` but make sure it`s never used In your defence of liberty I always stand accused Defending this corruption on which you are sat You tell me what to think, you tell me this and that `Freedom is O.K. you scum` but make sure it`s never used In your defence of liberty I always stand accused Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2006 Report Share Posted July 11, 2006 Hi Fraggle You know - it does make me wonder just how much longer it will be until American English is so different to English English that we'll no longer be able to understand each other! Seems so odd in a world where technology is breaking down all sorts of communication barriers.... BB Peter The American Heritage® Book of English Usage. A Practical and Authoritative Guide to Contemporary English. 1996. 3. Word Choice: New Uses, Common Confusion, and Constraints § 156. healthy / healthful Some people like to maintain a distinction between healthy and healthful. Healthy, they say, should be used to mean "possessing good health," and only healthful should mean "conducive to good health." People who hold this view are swimming against the tide of history, for healthy has been used to mean "healthful" since the 16th century. You can find the "healthful" use of healthy in the works of many distinguished writers, with this example from John Locke being typical: "Gardening … and working in wood, are fit and healthy recreations for a man of study or business." Therefore, both healthy and healthful are correct in these contexts: a healthy climate, a healthful climate; a healthful diet, a healthy diet. 1 The American Heritage® Book of English Usage. Copyright © 1996 by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved. fraggle Jul 10, 2006 1:23 PM Re: Fw: grammar or truth? oh peter peter peter you sure you weren't a minor grammar Deity in a past life? Grammaritus, god of Thessalian teachers..... Peter Jul 10, 2006 1:14 PM Re: Fw: Perception or truth? Hi Fraggle >as People Seek a More Healthful Lifestyle OK, I just have to say it... " Healthful " ???????? What the heck happened to the perfectly good " healthy " ? BB Peter Defending this corruption on which you are sat You tell me what to think, you tell me this and that `Freedom is O.K. you scum` but make sure it`s never used In your defence of liberty I always stand accused Defending this corruption on which you are sat You tell me what to think, you tell me this and that `Freedom is O.K. you scum` but make sure it`s never used In your defence of liberty I always stand accused Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2006 Report Share Posted July 11, 2006 Hi Peter Do you really find it that difficult? Seems to me that countries have been finding ways to communicate with each other for centuries. For us it should be all that much easier. And then for anything not understood, a little patience and understanding can go a long way. We may not speak as proper as the English do, but then again, we are another country and some of it is proper to us. And yes, we do have some that are more illiterate than others, but I am sure that you have your sort too. Plus you have to take into account the fact that many people here are from other countries and their languages/slangs/sayings blend into ours. Which I take as a good thing. No offense to either you or Jo because I do love you both dearly, but it tends to wear on a person after awhile when it feels like two friends are looking down their noses at you for the way that you speak. Especially when they are two very open minded, accepting friends. Kidding around is one thing and I am guilty as the next for doing this. But this subject tends to continually come across differently. And I only say something because as a friend, I feel I should to be fair. Or perhaps I am the only one who feels this way and perhaps this is another thread that I should start ignoring. If so, I shall. BB Nikki , " Peter Kebbell " <metalscarab wrote: > > Hi Fraggle > > You know - it does make me wonder just how much longer it will be until > American English is so different to English English that we'll no longer be > able to understand each other! Seems so odd in a world where technology is > breaking down all sorts of communication barriers.... > > BB > Peter > > > > > The American Heritage® Book of English Usage. A Practical and > > Authoritative Guide to Contemporary English. 1996. > > > > 3. Word Choice: New Uses, Common Confusion, and Constraints > > > > § 156. *healthy / healthful* Some people like to maintain a distinction > > between *healthy* and *healthful. Healthy,* they say, should be used to > > mean " possessing good health, " and only *healthful* should mean " conducive > > to good health. " People who hold this view are swimming against the tide of > > history, for *healthy* has been used to mean " healthful " since the 16th > > century. You can find the " healthful " use of *healthy* in the works of > > many distinguished writers, with this example from John Locke being typical: > > * " Gardening … and working in wood, are fit and healthy recreations for a > > man of study or business. " * Therefore, both *healthy* and *healthful* are > > correct in these contexts: *a healthy climate, a healthful climate; a > > healthful diet, a healthy diet.* * 1* > > > > > > > > The American Heritage® Book of English Usage. Copyright © 1996 by > > Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved. > > > > > > > > fraggle > > Jul 10, 2006 1:23 PM > > > > Re: Fw: grammar or truth? > > > > oh peter peter peter > > you sure you weren't a minor grammar Deity in a past life? > > Grammaritus, god of Thessalian teachers..... > > > > > > > > > > > > Peter > > Jul 10, 2006 1:14 PM > > > > Re: Fw: Perception or truth? > > > > Hi Fraggle > > > > >as People Seek a More Healthful Lifestyle > > > > OK, I just have to say it... " Healthful " ???????? What the heck happened to > > the perfectly good " healthy " ? > > > > BB > > Peter > > > > Defending this corruption on which you are sat > > You tell me what to think, you tell me this and that > > `Freedom is O.K. you scum` but make sure it`s never used > > In your defence of liberty I always stand accused > > > > > > > > Defending this corruption on which you are sat > > You tell me what to think, you tell me this and that > > `Freedom is O.K. you scum` but make sure it`s never used > > In your defence of liberty I always stand accused > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2006 Report Share Posted July 11, 2006 why does it bother ya'll so much? languages change and grow and evolve do ya'll still speak english like you did in the 16th century? do ya'll still speak anglo saxon? i hear the ozzie's laugh and cringe at yer language just as much... sheesh...why would anyone think anything would stay exactly the same forever??? Peter Kebbell Jul 11, 2006 12:32 AM Re: Fw: grammar or truth? Hi Fraggle You know - it does make me wonder just how much longer it will be until American English is so different to English English that we'll no longer be able to understand each other! Seems so odd in a world where technology is breaking down all sorts of communication barriers.... BB Peter The American Heritage® Book of English Usage. A Practical and Authoritative Guide to Contemporary English. 1996. 3. Word Choice: New Uses, Common Confusion, and Constraints § 156. healthy / healthful Some people like to maintain a distinction between healthy and healthful. Healthy, they say, should be used to mean "possessing good health," and only healthful should mean "conducive to good health." People who hold this view are swimming against the tide of history, for healthy has been used to mean "healthful" since the 16th century. You can find the "healthful" use of healthy in the works of many distinguished writers, with this example from John Locke being typical: "Gardening ? and working in wood, are fit and healthy recreations for a man of study or business." Therefore, both healthy and healthful are correct in these contexts: a healthy climate, a healthful climate; a healthful diet, a healthy diet. 1 The American Heritage® Book of English Usage. 1996 by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved. fraggle Jul 10, 2006 1:23 PM Re: Fw: grammar or truth? oh peter peter peter you sure you weren't a minor grammar Deity in a past life? Grammaritus, god of Thessalian teachers..... Peter Jul 10, 2006 1:14 PM Re: Fw: Perception or truth? Hi Fraggle >as People Seek a More Healthful Lifestyle OK, I just have to say it... "Healthful"???????? What the heck happened to the perfectly good "healthy"? BB Peter Defending this corruption on which you are sat You tell me what to think, you tell me this and that `Freedom is O.K. you scum` but make sure it`s never used In your defence of liberty I always stand accused Defending this corruption on which you are sat You tell me what to think, you tell me this and that `Freedom is O.K. you scum` but make sure it`s never used In your defence of liberty I always stand accused Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2006 Report Share Posted July 11, 2006 Hi Fraggle I don't mind languages changing and evolving... I just don't see why people feel the need to come up with new words, where perfectly good words already exist. Evolution of languages tends to involve variation through regional accent causing vowel-shift, and often softening of consonants - it doesn't usually involve taking a perfectly good word, and deliberately changing part of it. There is no way in language evolution that " healthy " would become " healthful " - it might gradually become " hilthy " , or " helfy " , but never " healthful " . Usually when " new " words are created, it is because there is no appropriate word already in existence, and it usually has some basic sense for how it has been developed... at least until the past few years anyway. Why it bothers me is because language is supposed to be a vehicle for communicating with one another - so if people start randomly altering words for no apparent reason, it makes it harder for language to be used for the purpose intended, and causes confusion... and isn't there enough confusion in the world already? BB Peter On 11/07/06, fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote: why does it bother ya'll so much? languages change and grow and evolve do ya'll still speak english like you did in the 16th century? do ya'll still speak anglo saxon? i hear the ozzie's laugh and cringe at yer language just as much... sheesh...why would anyone think anything would stay exactly the same forever??? Peter Kebbell Jul 11, 2006 12:32 AM Re: Fw: grammar or truth? Hi Fraggle You know - it does make me wonder just how much longer it will be until American English is so different to English English that we'll no longer be able to understand each other! Seems so odd in a world where technology is breaking down all sorts of communication barriers.... BB Peter The American Heritage® Book of English Usage. A Practical and Authoritative Guide to Contemporary English. 1996. 3. Word Choice: New Uses, Common Confusion, and Constraints § 156. healthy / healthful Some people like to maintain a distinction between healthy and healthful. Healthy, they say, should be used to mean " possessing good health, " and only healthful should mean " conducive to good health. " People who hold this view are swimming against the tide of history, for healthy has been used to mean " healthful " since the 16th century. You can find the " healthful " use of healthy in the works of many distinguished writers, with this example from John Locke being typical: " Gardening ? and working in wood, are fit and healthy recreations for a man of study or business. " Therefore, both healthy and healthful are correct in these contexts: a healthy climate, a healthful climate; a healthful diet, a healthy diet. 1 The American Heritage® Book of English Usage. Copyright © 1996 by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved. fraggle Jul 10, 2006 1:23 PM Re: Fw: grammar or truth? oh peter peter peter you sure you weren't a minor grammar Deity in a past life? Grammaritus, god of Thessalian teachers..... Peter Jul 10, 2006 1:14 PM Re: Fw: Perception or truth? Hi Fraggle >as People Seek a More Healthful Lifestyle OK, I just have to say it... " Healthful " ???????? What the heck happened to the perfectly good " healthy " ? BB Peter Defending this corruption on which you are sat You tell me what to think, you tell me this and that `Freedom is O.K. you scum` but make sure it`s never used In your defence of liberty I always stand accused Defending this corruption on which you are sat You tell me what to think, you tell me this and that `Freedom is O.K. you scum` but make sure it`s never used In your defence of liberty I always stand accused Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2006 Report Share Posted July 11, 2006 If the Ozzie's laugh at our language why shouldn't we laugh at other's? Or are we the only ones not allowed to laugh? Jo - fraggle Tuesday, July 11, 2006 4:04 PM Re: Fw: grammar or truth? why does it bother ya'll so much? languages change and grow and evolve do ya'll still speak english like you did in the 16th century? do ya'll still speak anglo saxon? i hear the ozzie's laugh and cringe at yer language just as much... sheesh...why would anyone think anything would stay exactly the same forever??? Peter Kebbell Jul 11, 2006 12:32 AM Re: Fw: grammar or truth? Hi Fraggle You know - it does make me wonder just how much longer it will be until American English is so different to English English that we'll no longer be able to understand each other! Seems so odd in a world where technology is breaking down all sorts of communication barriers.... BB Peter The American Heritage® Book of English Usage. A Practical and Authoritative Guide to Contemporary English. 1996. 3. Word Choice: New Uses, Common Confusion, and Constraints § 156. healthy / healthful Some people like to maintain a distinction between healthy and healthful. Healthy, they say, should be used to mean "possessing good health," and only healthful should mean "conducive to good health." People who hold this view are swimming against the tide of history, for healthy has been used to mean "healthful" since the 16th century. You can find the "healthful" use of healthy in the works of many distinguished writers, with this example from John Locke being typical: "Gardening ? and working in wood, are fit and healthy recreations for a man of study or business." Therefore, both healthy and healthful are correct in these contexts: a healthy climate, a healthful climate; a healthful diet, a healthy diet. 1 The American Heritage® Book of English Usage. 1996 by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved. fraggle Jul 10, 2006 1:23 PM Re: Fw: grammar or truth? oh peter peter peter you sure you weren't a minor grammar Deity in a past life? Grammaritus, god of Thessalian teachers..... Peter Jul 10, 2006 1:14 PM Re: Fw: Perception or truth? Hi Fraggle >as People Seek a More Healthful Lifestyle OK, I just have to say it... "Healthful"???????? What the heck happened to the perfectly good "healthy"? BB Peter Defending this corruption on which you are sat You tell me what to think, you tell me this and that `Freedom is O.K. you scum` but make sure it`s never used In your defence of liberty I always stand accused Defending this corruption on which you are sat You tell me what to think, you tell me this and that `Freedom is O.K. you scum` but make sure it`s never used In your defence of liberty I always stand accused Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2006 Report Share Posted July 11, 2006 ah.. sorry peter i have to disagree languages have to grow and change, and new words are always coming into a language ESPECIALLY english.... it borrows words, phrases and linguistical syntax from all over the place Here in the US, we have a huge influx of people from all over the globe, always have. it languages didn't accept new words, terms, meaning, spellings, i think the language, and eventually the nation it stemmed from, would fracture.. let me explain... if a certain sub group within a nation/society spoke a certain way, and the "mainstream" of the language never adopted it, at all, instead, if that so called mainstream solidly refused to change, one group is going to seperate from the other... differences will arise and it could lead to unrest, discourse, misunderstandings, hatred, etc i understand what you are saying..but...ya have to remember people are lazy languages change as people look at more "economical" ways of saying things slang and contractions are just ways of conveying the same words/meaning in a faster form. words are constantly changed, borrowed, recycled, contracted and having their meanings changed... words are constantly changing and renweing themselves...new meanings, new pronunciations, spellings. social changes/situations often drive language, and how it changes... one thing about language...it follows its own path/needs..you can not pigeon hole it and say 'its going t odo this" it follows its own needs as for confusing... truly, did you not understand what the article was about because they used "heathful"? or would that be truthfully....? Peter Kebbell Jul 11, 2006 8:35 AM Re: Fw: grammar or truth? Hi Fraggle I don't mind languages changing and evolving... I just don't see why people feel the need to come up with new words, where perfectly good words already exist. Evolution of languages tends to involve variation through regional accent causing vowel-shift, and often softening of consonants - it doesn't usually involve taking a perfectly good word, and deliberately changing part of it. There is no way in language evolution that "healthy" would become "healthful" - it might gradually become "hilthy", or "helfy", but never "healthful". Usually when "new" words are created, it is because there is no appropriate word already in existence, and it usually has some basic sense for how it has been developed... at least until the past few years anyway. Why it bothers me is because language is supposed to be a vehicle for communicating with one another - so if people start randomly altering words for no apparent reason, it makes it harder for language to be used for the purpose intended, and causes confusion... and isn't there enough confusion in the world already? BB Peter On 11/07/06, fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote: why does it bother ya'll so much? languages change and grow and evolve do ya'll still speak english like you did in the 16th century? do ya'll still speak anglo saxon? i hear the ozzie's laugh and cringe at yer language just as much... sheesh...why would anyone think anything would stay exactly the same forever??? Peter Kebbell Jul 11, 2006 12:32 AM Re: Fw: grammar or truth? Hi Fraggle You know - it does make me wonder just how much longer it will be until American English is so different to English English that we'll no longer be able to understand each other! Seems so odd in a world where technology is breaking down all sorts of communication barriers.... BB Peter The American Heritage® Book of English Usage. A Practical and Authoritative Guide to Contemporary English. 1996. 3. Word Choice: New Uses, Common Confusion, and Constraints § 156. healthy / healthful Some people like to maintain a distinction between healthy and healthful. Healthy, they say, should be used to mean "possessing good health," and only healthful should mean "conducive to good health." People who hold this view are swimming against the tide of history, for healthy has been used to mean "healthful" since the 16th century. You can find the "healthful" use of healthy in the works of many distinguished writers, with this example from John Locke being typical: "Gardening ? and working in wood, are fit and healthy recreations for a man of study or business." Therefore, both healthy and healthful are correct in these contexts: a healthy climate, a healthful climate; a healthful diet, a healthy diet. 1 The American Heritage® Book of English Usage. 1996 by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved. fraggle Jul 10, 2006 1:23 PM Re: Fw: grammar or truth? oh peter peter peter you sure you weren't a minor grammar Deity in a past life? Grammaritus, god of Thessalian teachers..... Peter Jul 10, 2006 1:14 PM Re: Fw: Perception or truth? Hi Fraggle >as People Seek a More Healthful Lifestyle OK, I just have to say it... "Healthful"???????? What the heck happened to the perfectly good "healthy"? BB Peter Defending this corruption on which you are sat You tell me what to think, you tell me this and that `Freedom is O.K. you scum` but make sure it`s never used In your defence of liberty I always stand accused Defending this corruption on which you are sat You tell me what to think, you tell me this and that `Freedom is O.K. you scum` but make sure it`s never used In your defence of liberty I always stand accused "NOTICE: Due to Presidential Executive Orders, the National Security Agency may have read this email without warning, warrant, or notice. They may do this without any judicial or legislative oversight. You have no recourse nor protection save to call for the impeachment of the current President." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2006 Report Share Posted July 11, 2006 Hi Fraggle >ah.. >sorry peter >i have to disagree >languages have to grow and change, and new words are always coming into a language >ESPECIALLY english.... >it borrows words, phrases and linguistical syntax from all over the place It has evolved from a number of different sources - as various invasions have taken place, parts of the language of the invaders have been adopted. That's a completely different scenario to making up a random word like "healthful" and "speeded", which have basically developed because people don't know basic grammar! >languages change as people look at more "economical" ways of saying things Since when are "healthful" and "speeded" more economical than "healthy" and "sped"? >slang and contractions are just ways of conveying the same words/meaning in a faster form. Again, since when are the words we are discussing anything to do with contractions or being in a "faster" form> >as for confusing... >truly, did you not understand what the article was about because they used "heathful"? >or would that be truthfully....? No, because I don't know what they mean by the word "healthful". From the blurb you sent afterwards, it appears to mean exactly the same as healthy, but that isn't at all obvious from the word itself. But basically, this discussion isn't about evolution, it's about deliberate corruption - no-one would come up with the word "healthful" as a contraction, or a variant of "healthy" unless they were just trying to be clever.... and failing. So, Fraggle - what do we do when words "evolve" to have completely different meanings... do you think you'd be quite so happy to accept it if people started referring to The Spice Girls as "Punk Music"? Or if they started serving you meat in restaraunts, because they'd decided to change the meaning of the word vegan in their local town. I mean - what the fribble is the purpulousness of lingablations if moblicates decaribate their own driblates whenever they herb so inflatable? BB Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2006 Report Share Posted July 11, 2006 since when did you start listening to Snoop Dog? Peter Jul 11, 2006 10:37 AM Vegan Chat Re: Fw: grammar or truth? I mean - what the fribble is the purpulousness of lingablations if moblicates decaribate their own driblates whenever they herb so inflatable? BB Peter "NOTICE: Due to Presidential Executive Orders, the National Security Agency may have read this email without warning, warrant, or notice. They may do this without any judicial or legislative oversight. You have no recourse nor protection save to call for the impeachment of the current President." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2006 Report Share Posted July 11, 2006 I have to agree on a lot of points with Fraggle. I just don't see the problem with another country talking differently than you think they should. Logical or not, this is our English language. Nikki Re: Fw: grammar or truth? ah.. sorry peter i have to disagree languages have to grow and change, and new words are always coming into a language ESPECIALLY english.... it borrows words, phrases and linguistical syntax from all over the place Here in the US, we have a huge influx of people from all over the globe, always have. it languages didn't accept new words, terms, meaning, spellings, i think the language, and eventually the nation it stemmed from, would fracture.. let me explain... if a certain sub group within a nation/society spoke a certain way, and the " mainstream " of the language never adopted it, at all, instead, if that so called mainstream solidly refused to change, one group is going to seperate from the other... differences will arise and it could lead to unrest, discourse, misunderstandings, hatred, etc i understand what you are saying..but...ya have to remember people are lazy languages change as people look at more " economical " ways of saying things slang and contractions are just ways of conveying the same words/meaning in a faster form. words are constantly changed, borrowed, recycled, contracted and having their meanings changed... words are constantly changing and renweing themselves...new meanings, new pronunciations, spellings. social changes/situations often drive language, and how it changes... one thing about language...it follows its own path/needs..you can not pigeon hole it and say 'its going t odo this " it follows its own needs as for confusing... truly, did you not understand what the article was about because they used " heathful " ? or would that be truthfully....? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2006 Report Share Posted July 11, 2006 we are talking about healthy and heathful tis there anything in those that hint that somehow either word means "eye gouging poison"? if 100 years from now the word punk evolved into "crappy over produced pap force fed to musical masses", then que sera sera i'd be dead anyways... i don't think beethoven thought of wot he played was classical music did he?and, how do you know i don't adore the spice gurls???!!! ok..even i couldn't swallow that one... So, Fraggle - what do we do when words "evolve" to have completely different meanings... do you think you'd be quite so happy to accept it if people started referring to The Spice Girls as "Punk Music"? Or if they started serving you meat in restaraunts, because they'd decided to change the meaning of the word vegan in their local town. I mean - what the fribble is the purpulousness of lingablations if moblicates decaribate their own driblates whenever they herb so inflatable? "NOTICE: Due to Presidential Executive Orders, the National Security Agency may have read this email without warning, warrant, or notice. They may do this without any judicial or legislative oversight. You have no recourse nor protection save to call for the impeachment of the current President." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2006 Report Share Posted July 11, 2006 see sir...it evolved over there from invasions then it was brought here and continued to change from its source as people seperated from each other, then new immigrants came in and the language flowed with it. there it evolved out of different invasions..germanic, norse, french.. here..its evolved from all the different peoples who have come here.. including different english speakers.. we aren't english....sorry...you can't have us back.... tho, you can have some of us...we wouldn't mind.... , " Peter " <metalscarab wrote: > > Hi Fraggle >> It has evolved from a number of different sources - as various invasions have taken place, parts of the language of the invaders have been adopted. That's a completely different scenario to making up a random word like " healthful " and " speeded " , which have basically developed because people don't know basic grammar! > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2006 Report Share Posted July 11, 2006 Are we allowed to say we don't like the Spice Girls :-) Jo - fraggle Tuesday, July 11, 2006 7:14 PM Re: Fw: grammar or truth? we are talking about healthy and heathful tis there anything in those that hint that somehow either word means "eye gouging poison"? if 100 years from now the word punk evolved into "crappy over produced pap force fed to musical masses", then que sera sera i'd be dead anyways... i don't think beethoven thought of wot he played was classical music did he?and, how do you know i don't adore the spice gurls???!!! ok..even i couldn't swallow that one... So, Fraggle - what do we do when words "evolve" to have completely different meanings... do you think you'd be quite so happy to accept it if people started referring to The Spice Girls as "Punk Music"? Or if they started serving you meat in restaraunts, because they'd decided to change the meaning of the word vegan in their local town. I mean - what the fribble is the purpulousness of lingablations if moblicates decaribate their own driblates whenever they herb so inflatable? "NOTICE: Due to Presidential Executive Orders, the National Security Agency may have read this email without warning, warrant, or notice. They may do this without any judicial or legislative oversight. You have no recourse nor protection save to call for the impeachment of the current President." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2006 Report Share Posted July 11, 2006 what the shnizzle are you two dizzling? The Valley Vegan............fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote: since when did you start listening to Snoop Dog? Peter Jul 11, 2006 10:37 AM Vegan Chat Re: Fw: grammar or truth? I mean - what the fribble is the purpulousness of lingablations if moblicates decaribate their own driblates whenever they herb so inflatable? BB Peter "NOTICE: Due to Presidential Executive Orders, the National Security Agency may have read this email without warning, warrant, or notice. They may do this without any judicial or legislative oversight. You have no recourse nor protection save to call for the impeachment of the current President."Peter H The all-new Mail goes wherever you go - free your email address from your Internet provider. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2006 Report Share Posted July 11, 2006 Cmon Nikki, I`m sure its just kidding around? maybe I can get you americans to speak Wenglish, no that would upset Peter even more? The Valley Vegan.................earthstrm <earthstorm wrote: Hi PeterDo you really find it that difficult? Seems to me that countries have been finding ways to communicate with each other for centuries. For us it should be all that much easier.And then for anything not understood, a little patience and understanding can go a long way. We may not speak as proper as the English do, but then again, we are another country and some of it is proper to us. And yes, we do have some that are more illiterate than others, but I am sure that you have your sort too.Plus you have to take into account the fact that many people here are from other countries and their languages/slangs/sayings blend into ours. Which I take as a good thing.No offense to either you or Jo because I do love you both dearly, but it tends to wear on a person after awhile when it feels like two friends are looking down their noses at you for the way that you speak. Especially when they are two very open minded, accepting friends.Kidding around is one thing and I am guilty as the next for doing this. But this subject tends to continually come across differently.And I only say something because as a friend, I feel I should to be fair.Or perhaps I am the only one who feels this way and perhaps this is another thread that I should start ignoring. If so, I shall.BBNikki , "Peter Kebbell" wrote:>> Hi Fraggle> > You know - it does make me wonder just how much longer it will be until> American English is so different to English English that we'll no longer be> able to understand each other! Seems so odd in a world where technology is> breaking down all sorts of communication barriers....> > BB> Peter> > > > > The American Heritage® Book of English Usage. A Practical and> > Authoritative Guide to Contemporary English. 1996.> >> > 3. Word Choice: New Uses, Common Confusion, and Constraints> >> > § 156. *healthy / healthful* Some people like to maintain a distinction> > between *healthy* and *healthful. Healthy,* they say, should be used to> > mean "possessing good health," and only *healthful* should mean "conducive> > to good health." People who hold this view are swimming against the tide of> > history, for *healthy* has been used to mean "healthful" since the 16th> > century. You can find the "healthful" use of *healthy* in the works of> > many distinguished writers, with this example from John Locke being typical:> > *"Gardening … and working in wood, are fit and healthy recreations for a> > man of study or business."* Therefore, both *healthy* and *healthful* are> > correct in these contexts: *a healthy climate, a healthful climate; a> > healthful diet, a healthy diet.* * 1*> >> >> >> > The American Heritage® Book of English Usage. Copyright © 1996 by> > Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.> >> >> > > > fraggle> > Jul 10, 2006 1:23 PM> > > > Re: Fw: grammar or truth?> >> > oh peter peter peter> > you sure you weren't a minor grammar Deity in a past life?> > Grammaritus, god of Thessalian teachers.....> >> >> >> >> > > > Peter> > Jul 10, 2006 1:14 PM> > > > Re: Fw: Perception or truth?> >> > Hi Fraggle> >> > >as People Seek a More Healthful Lifestyle> >> > OK, I just have to say it... "Healthful"???????? What the heck happened to> > the perfectly good "healthy"?> >> > BB> > Peter> >> > Defending this corruption on which you are sat> > You tell me what to think, you tell me this and that> > `Freedom is O.K. you scum` but make sure it`s never used> > In your defence of liberty I always stand accused> >> > > >> > Defending this corruption on which you are sat> > You tell me what to think, you tell me this and that> > `Freedom is O.K. you scum` but make sure it`s never used> > In your defence of liberty I always stand accused> >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2006 Report Share Posted July 11, 2006 Hi Fraggle >we are talking about healthy and heathful >tis there anything in those that hint that somehow either word means "eye gouging poison"? Is there any reason to suppose that the word ex-terminate is not the opposite of terminate? Or that in-flammable is not the opposite of flammable? Or perhaps that in-sane is the same as sane? Since when did similarity in word sounds mean anything at all? BB Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2006 Report Share Posted July 11, 2006 Hi Peter I was interfrastically comunicatising... dunno about Fraggle ;-) BB Peter - peter VV Tuesday, July 11, 2006 8:26 PM Re: Fw: grammar or truth? what the shnizzle are you two dizzling? The Valley Vegan............fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote: since when did you start listening to Snoop Dog? Peter Jul 11, 2006 10:37 AM Vegan Chat Re: Fw: grammar or truth? I mean - what the fribble is the purpulousness of lingablations if moblicates decaribate their own driblates whenever they herb so inflatable? BB Peter "NOTICE: Due to Presidential Executive Orders, the National Security Agency may have read this email without warning, warrant, or notice. They may do this without any judicial or legislative oversight. You have no recourse nor protection save to call for the impeachment of the current President." Peter H The all-new Mail goes wherever you go - free your email address from your Internet provider. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2006 Report Share Posted July 11, 2006 hey, you designed this bloody language! you can't get all hopped up on one way when you think its being misused, when the rest of it makes as much sense as an episode of Twin peaks Peter Jul 11, 2006 1:20 PM Re: Fw: grammar or truth? Hi Fraggle >we are talking about healthy and heathful >tis there anything in those that hint that somehow either word means "eye gouging poison"? Is there any reason to suppose that the word ex-terminate is not the opposite of terminate? Or that in-flammable is not the opposite of flammable? Or perhaps that in-sane is the same as sane? Since when did similarity in word sounds mean anything at all? BB Peter Defending this corruption on which you are sat You tell me what to think, you tell me this and that `Freedom is O.K. you scum` but make sure it`s never used In your defence of liberty I always stand accused Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2006 Report Share Posted July 11, 2006 Hi Fraggle >hey, you designed this bloody language! Now I'm gonna have to refute this statament.... it was designed a long time before I was even born :-) BB Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2006 Report Share Posted July 11, 2006 I like Welsh accents. Jo - peter VV Tuesday, July 11, 2006 8:38 PM Re: Re: Fw: grammar or truth? Cmon Nikki, I`m sure its just kidding around? maybe I can get you americans to speak Wenglish, no that would upset Peter even more? The Valley Vegan.................earthstrm <earthstorm wrote: Hi PeterDo you really find it that difficult? Seems to me that countries have been finding ways to communicate with each other for centuries. For us it should be all that much easier.And then for anything not understood, a little patience and understanding can go a long way. We may not speak as proper as the English do, but then again, we are another country and some of it is proper to us. And yes, we do have some that are more illiterate than others, but I am sure that you have your sort too.Plus you have to take into account the fact that many people here are from other countries and their languages/slangs/sayings blend into ours. Which I take as a good thing.No offense to either you or Jo because I do love you both dearly, but it tends to wear on a person after awhile when it feels like two friends are looking down their noses at you for the way that you speak. Especially when they are two very open minded, accepting friends.Kidding around is one thing and I am guilty as the next for doing this. But this subject tends to continually come across differently.And I only say something because as a friend, I feel I should to be fair.Or perhaps I am the only one who feels this way and perhaps this is another thread that I should start ignoring. If so, I shall.BBNikki , "Peter Kebbell" wrote:>> Hi Fraggle> > You know - it does make me wonder just how much longer it will be until> American English is so different to English English that we'll no longer be> able to understand each other! Seems so odd in a world where technology is> breaking down all sorts of communication barriers....> > BB> Peter> > > > > The American Heritage® Book of English Usage. A Practical and> > Authoritative Guide to Contemporary English. 1996.> >> > 3. Word Choice: New Uses, Common Confusion, and Constraints> >> > § 156. *healthy / healthful* Some people like to maintain a distinction> > between *healthy* and *healthful. Healthy,* they say, should be used to> > mean "possessing good health," and only *healthful* should mean "conducive> > to good health." People who hold this view are swimming against the tide of> > history, for *healthy* has been used to mean "healthful" since the 16th> > century. You can find the "healthful" use of *healthy* in the works of> > many distinguished writers, with this example from John Locke being typical:> > *"Gardening … and working in wood, are fit and healthy recreations for a> > man of study or business."* Therefore, both *healthy* and *healthful* are> > correct in these contexts: *a healthy climate, a healthful climate; a> > healthful diet, a healthy diet.* * 1*> >> >> >> > The American Heritage® Book of English Usage. Copyright © 1996 by> > Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.> >> >> > > > fraggle> > Jul 10, 2006 1:23 PM> > > > Re: Fw: grammar or truth?> >> > oh peter peter peter> > you sure you weren't a minor grammar Deity in a past life?> > Grammaritus, god of Thessalian teachers.....> >> >> >> >> > > > Peter> > Jul 10, 2006 1:14 PM> > > > Re: Fw: Perception or truth?> >> > Hi Fraggle> >> > >as People Seek a More Healthful Lifestyle> >> > OK, I just have to say it... "Healthful"???????? What the heck happened to> > the perfectly good "healthy"?> >> > BB> > Peter> >> > Defending this corruption on which you are sat> > You tell me what to think, you tell me this and that> > `Freedom is O.K. you scum` but make sure it`s never used> > In your defence of liberty I always stand accused> >> > > >> > Defending this corruption on which you are sat> > You tell me what to think, you tell me this and that> > `Freedom is O.K. you scum` but make sure it`s never used> > In your defence of liberty I always stand accused> >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2006 Report Share Posted July 11, 2006 I saw only one episode of Twin Peaks, and it was weird. I have been waiting for them to have repeats, but none yet. Jo - fraggle Tuesday, July 11, 2006 9:28 PM Re: Fw: grammar or truth? hey, you designed this bloody language! you can't get all hopped up on one way when you think its being misused, when the rest of it makes as much sense as an episode of Twin peaks Peter Jul 11, 2006 1:20 PM Re: Fw: grammar or truth? Hi Fraggle >we are talking about healthy and heathful >tis there anything in those that hint that somehow either word means "eye gouging poison"? Is there any reason to suppose that the word ex-terminate is not the opposite of terminate? Or that in-flammable is not the opposite of flammable? Or perhaps that in-sane is the same as sane? Since when did similarity in word sounds mean anything at all? BB Peter Defending this corruption on which you are sat You tell me what to think, you tell me this and that `Freedom is O.K. you scum` but make sure it`s never used In your defence of liberty I always stand accused Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2006 Report Share Posted July 11, 2006 details details.... besides...i'm sure your alter-ego the demi-deity Grammaticus had something to do with it Peter Jul 11, 2006 5:04 PM Re: Fw: grammar or truth? Hi Fraggle >hey, you designed this bloody language! Now I'm gonna have to refute this statament.... it was designed a long time before I was even born :-) BB Peter Defending this corruption on which you are sat You tell me what to think, you tell me this and that `Freedom is O.K. you scum` but make sure it`s never used In your defence of liberty I always stand accused Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 12, 2006 Report Share Posted July 12, 2006 Hi Fraggle >details details.... >besides...i'm sure your alter-ego the demi-deity Grammaticus had something to do with it Hey - I take offence to that comment.... we'll have less of this " demi " business if you don't mind ;-) BB Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 12, 2006 Report Share Posted July 12, 2006 Hi VV, I use to think so too, but it just does not seem that way. I would love to learn Wenglish! Do you have an informercial where I could buy it for just 10 easy payments ot $25.99 plus shipping and handling? Nikki , peter VV <swpgh01 wrote: > > Cmon Nikki, I`m sure its just kidding around? maybe I can get you americans to speak Wenglish, no that would upset Peter even more? > > The Valley Vegan................. > > earthstrm <earthstorm wrote: > Hi Peter > > Do you really find it that difficult? Seems to me that countries > have been finding ways to communicate with each other for centuries. > For us it should be all that much easier. > > And then for anything not understood, a little patience and > understanding can go a long way. We may not speak as proper as the > English do, but then again, we are another country and some of it is > proper to us. And yes, we do have some that are more illiterate than > others, but I am sure that you have your sort too. > > Plus you have to take into account the fact that many people here > are from other countries and their languages/slangs/sayings blend > into ours. Which I take as a good thing. > > No offense to either you or Jo because I do love you both dearly, > but it tends to wear on a person after awhile when it feels like two > friends are looking down their noses at you for the way that you > speak. Especially when they are two very open minded, accepting > friends. > > Kidding around is one thing and I am guilty as the next for doing > this. But this subject tends to continually come across differently. > > And I only say something because as a friend, I feel I should to be > fair. > > Or perhaps I am the only one who feels this way and perhaps this is > another thread that I should start ignoring. If so, I shall. > > BB > Nikki > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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