Guest guest Posted October 25, 2006 Report Share Posted October 25, 2006 Hi Peter >I was under the impression ( silly impressionable sod that I am ) that the first colonists couldnt have survived without the help of the indiginous population, and that was what you were giving thanks to, the memory of their graciousness? >Arent harvest festivals based on pagan traditions? like a lot of festivals? I think harvest festivals go back about as far as you can go. After all, ultimately the harvest is what helps people to survive the winter, so it's always been something to celebrate. They had festivities around the harvest in ancient Egypt as far back as historical records go, and I think it's one of those festivals that's celebrated in just about every culture across the world! BB Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 25, 2006 Report Share Posted October 25, 2006 Hi Fraggle Yeah - our school history is about as full of myths as well - at least it was 10 years ago, and I doubt it's changed much since. BB Peter On 24/10/06, fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote: exactly why are you confused byt the " misinformation " we all grow up with myths.. remember..to the victors go the spoils and history is written by the winners dunno wot ya'll learn in skool over on that side of the pond, but American " history " (and culture) is chock full of myths and falsehoods....stereotypes, misleading " facts " , and outright lies... peter VV Oct 24, 2006 1:00 PM Re: fer you yanks Why so much missinformation? surely they couldnt have survived without the techniques for growing maize etc that the local indians gave them? Surely the traditional british crops and techniques were not much use over there? and what thanks did they give them? apart from joining up with them, as did the French to set tribe against tribe to take their lands and wipe out entire tribes! or have I got that wrong? I like the idea of thanxfernuthin day.......maybe I`ll crack open a bottle and toast y`all The Valley Vegan............fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote: more er less true the original colonists couldn't have survived without the enormous help from the First nations people.. whether deliberate er not (there was a lot of outright thievery going on by early colonists...as well as hospitallity by the First Nations folks) but..in taditional history here, we are told, that the first thnaxgiving was to thank god that they survived the year, got the harvest in, and decided to share with the locals(awfully nice of them, since the colonists were on their land, eating mostly their food...) but, we were all taught that the Pilgrims shared with the " indians " ..not exactly the what happened peter VV Oct 24, 2006 12:13 PM Re: fer you yanks I was under the impression ( silly impressionable sod that I am ) that the first colonists couldnt have survived without the help of the indiginous population, and that was what you were giving thanks to, the memory of their graciousness? Arent harvest festivals based on pagan traditions? like a lot of festivals? The Valley Vegan.............fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote: thanksgiving is a traditional holiday steeped in myths and the like here in the colonies... its origins are based on a harvest festival(mythically given as back in 1621 when the colonists survived their first year) anyways...it is generally used as a day off a gathering of family and a day fer everyone t o eat themselves into a stupor and watch football of course..thats my cynic answer :)fer me we celebrate thanxfernuthin.... gathering of all our " family " (read BOB family)...gathering of friends and celebrate that holy crap, we made it another year..and assorted things like that... cheers fraggle peter VV Oct 24, 2006 10:59 AM Re: fer you yanks Seriuosly though you yanks, what is it that is traditionally thanked for ?, is it the help the native americans gave the invaders/colonists?, or is it just for all the good things yo may have, and who are you paying thanks to? some diety? No I am not joking, I realy am that ignorant................sorry, thought I`d get it in before anyone else! The Valley Vegan............. As nightfall does not come at once, neither does oppression. In both instances, there's a twilight where everything remains seemingly unchanged, and it is in such twilight that we must be aware of change in the air, however slight, lest we become unwitting victims of the darkness. William O. Douglas Peter H Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger. As nightfall does not come at once, neither does oppression. In both instances, there's a twilight where everything remains seemingly unchanged, and it is in such twilight that we must be aware of change in the air, however slight, lest we become unwitting victims of the darkness. William O. Douglas Peter H Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger. As nightfall does not come at once, neither does oppression. In both instances, there's a twilight where everything remains seemingly unchanged, and it is in such twilight that we must be aware of change in the air, however slight, lest we become unwitting victims of the darkness. William O. Douglas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 25, 2006 Report Share Posted October 25, 2006 WHERE?! WHERE?! ooh..almost lunch time i think i know wot i'll have... Peter Kebbell Oct 25, 2006 10:17 AM Re: fer you yanks Hi Fraggle Oh, alright then... Beer :-) BB Peter On 24/10/06, fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote: yes please *cheeky smile* Peter Kebbell Oct 24, 2006 10:29 AM Re: fer you yanks Hi Fraggle >tease! Is that a request? ;-) BB Peter As nightfall does not come at once, neither does oppression. In both instances, there's a twilight where everything remains seemingly unchanged, and it is in such twilight that we must be aware of change in the air, however slight, lest we become unwitting victims of the darkness. William O. Douglas As nightfall does not come at once, neither does oppression. In both instances, there's a twilight where everything remains seemingly unchanged, and it is in such twilight that we must be aware of change in the air, however slight, lest we become unwitting victims of the darkness. William O. Douglas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 25, 2006 Report Share Posted October 25, 2006 Do you think that one day someone will get a concience and "the truth will out"? The Valley Vegan.............fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote: to continue people like to be proud of their pasts so, things like facts and actuality..well..they just get in the way don't they? i mean...how much do folks really want to hear that the first "settlers" (can you settle land already occupied?...guess it wouldn't go well to call our ancestors invaders, or squatters...doesn't play as well) in virginia...how most of em starved...and why? because half of em were too busy not only not to plant crops, but even t othink about getting food busy doing what? digging random holes...looking for gold... or, what we have come to call the pilgrims, how they robbed graves..... and stole food stores our entire "cherished" so called history of thanxgivin is just really myth and propaganda *shrug* i think all cultures do it to one extent er anything make our forefathers into something larger then live peter VV Oct 24, 2006 1:00 PM Re: fer you yanks Why so much missinformation? surely they couldnt have survived without the techniques for growing maize etc that the local indians gave them? Surely the traditional british crops and techniques were not much use over there? and what thanks did they give them? apart from joining up with them, as did the French to set tribe against tribe to take their lands and wipe out entire tribes! or have I got that As nightfall does not come at once, neither does oppression. In both instances, there's a twilight where everything remains seemingly unchanged, and it is in such twilight that we must be aware of change in the air, however slight, lest we become unwitting victims of the darkness. William O. Douglas Peter H Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 25, 2006 Report Share Posted October 25, 2006 depends on who "wins" doesn't it? the truth is out there..its just not taught er propagated in any form peter VV Oct 25, 2006 11:03 AM Re: fer you yanks Do you think that one day someone will get a concience and "the truth will out"? The Valley Vegan.............fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote: to continue people like to be proud of their pasts so, things like facts and actuality..well..they just get in the way don't they? i mean...how much do folks really want to hear that the first "settlers" (can you settle land already occupied?...guess it wouldn't go well to call our ancestors invaders, or squatters...doesn't play as well) in virginia...how most of em starved...and why? because half of em were too busy not only not to plant crops, but even t othink about getting food busy doing what? digging random holes...looking for gold... or, what we have come to call the pilgrims, how they robbed graves..... and stole food stores our entire "cherished" so called history of thanxgivin is just really myth and propaganda *shrug* i think all cultures do it to one extent er anything make our forefathers into something larger then live peter VV Oct 24, 2006 1:00 PM Re: fer you yanks Why so much missinformation? surely they couldnt have survived without the techniques for growing maize etc that the local indians gave them? Surely the traditional british crops and techniques were not much use over there? and what thanks did they give them? apart from joining up with them, as did the French to set tribe against tribe to take their lands and wipe out entire tribes! or have I got that As nightfall does not come at once, neither does oppression. In both instances, there's a twilight where everything remains seemingly unchanged, and it is in such twilight that we must be aware of change in the air, however slight, lest we become unwitting victims of the darkness. William O. Douglas Peter H Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger. As nightfall does not come at once, neither does oppression. In both instances, there's a twilight where everything remains seemingly unchanged, and it is in such twilight that we must be aware of change in the air, however slight, lest we become unwitting victims of the darkness. William O. Douglas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 25, 2006 Report Share Posted October 25, 2006 Just a thought, on indian reservasions, is there just as much missinformation ? The Valley Vegan..............fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote: depends on who "wins" doesn't it? the truth is out there..its just not taught er propagated in any form peter VV Oct 25, 2006 11:03 AM Re: fer you yanks Do you think that one day someone will get a concience and "the truth will out"? The Valley Vegan.............fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote: to continue people like to be proud of their pasts so, things like facts and actuality..well..they just get in the way don't they? i mean...how much do folks really want to hear that the first "settlers" (can you settle land already occupied?...guess it wouldn't go well to call our ancestors invaders, or squatters...doesn't play as well) in virginia...how most of em starved...and why? because half of em were too busy not only not to plant crops, but even t othink about getting food busy doing what? digging random holes...looking for gold... or, what we have come to call the pilgrims, how they robbed graves..... and stole food stores our entire "cherished" so called history of thanxgivin is just really myth and propaganda *shrug* i think all cultures do it to one extent er anything make our forefathers into something larger then live peter VV Oct 24, 2006 1:00 PM Re: fer you yanks Why so much missinformation? surely they couldnt have survived without the techniques for growing maize etc that the local indians gave them? Surely the traditional british crops and techniques were not much use over there? and what thanks did they give them? apart from joining up with them, as did the French to set tribe against tribe to take their lands and wipe out entire tribes! or have I got that As nightfall does not come at once, neither does oppression. In both instances, there's a twilight where everything remains seemingly unchanged, and it is in such twilight that we must be aware of change in the air, however slight, lest we become unwitting victims of the darkness. William O. Douglas Peter H Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger. As nightfall does not come at once, neither does oppression. In both instances, there's a twilight where everything remains seemingly unchanged, and it is in such twilight that we must be aware of change in the air, however slight, lest we become unwitting victims of the darkness. William O. Douglas Peter H All new Mail "The new Interface is stunning in its simplicity and ease of use." - PC Magazine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 27, 2006 Report Share Posted October 27, 2006 F that! Thanksgiving is NOT " celebrated " in my household. 500, 000,000 massacred beautiful lovely angel birds have NOthing to be thankful for. I use this stupid holiday to do chores. I have read extensively about the Genocide and MUrders that was commited to the Indians by the Puritans. Knowing this history, I do not see Thanksgiving as a celebratory nor thankful day, even though I am American. Instead, I am thankful every day in my own private, spiritual way and feel truly blessed to have a privileged life. This way of being thankful makes more sense to me. To ignore this holiday gives me pleasure, done out of pure and simple rebeliousness and protest on my part. I have stood up and left my family hanging every thanksgiving since I was 15. I refuse to put blinders on about the blood that my neighbors take part in and would rather die than be one of them. oh by the way... my neighbor tells me that a new tradition is to make a ham alongside the turkey. BLECCHH!! sorry for the vomit. -anouk , betharon wrote: > > Hi Jo, > Thanks for your reply. I saw your joke but I couldn't resist further > commenting.(-: > > That is the best way to celebrate Thanksgiving. I know there are many things > I have to be thankful for. Since I am far away from my family I will probably > get a chance for some quiet reflection -- in between finishing up my term > papers. > > I love the fact that I can converse with people around the globe. > > Beth > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 27, 2006 Report Share Posted October 27, 2006 Hi Anouk In the UK the Christmas craze over the last few years has been to have a turkey, with a chicken inside it, with a pheasant inside that and a pigeon inside that!!! It's bad enough eating one bird, that is really gross. Jo > > oh by the way... my neighbor tells me that a new tradition is > to make a ham alongside the turkey. BLECCHH!! sorry for the vomit. > > -anouk > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 27, 2006 Report Share Posted October 27, 2006 er turducken.............. ugh >flower child <zurumato >Oct 26, 2006 8:08 PM > > Re: fer you yanks > > than be one of them. > >oh by the way... my neighbor tells me that a new tradition is >to make a ham alongside the turkey. BLECCHH!! sorry for the vomit. > >-anouk > As nightfall does not come at once, neither does oppression. In both instances, there's a twilight where everything remains seemingly unchanged, and it is in such twilight that we must be aware of change in the air, however slight, lest we become unwitting victims of the darkness. William O. Douglas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 27, 2006 Report Share Posted October 27, 2006 It has?..........not amongst the working class maybe? sounds expensive? It sounds like something Henry VIII would have had ( after his larks tongue in aspic of course!) The Valley Vegan..............heartwerk <jo.heartwork wrote: Hi AnoukIn the UK the Christmas craze over the last few years has been to have a turkey, with a chicken inside it, with a pheasant inside that and a pigeon inside that!!! It's bad enough eating one bird, that is really gross.Jo> > oh by the way... my neighbor tells me that a new tradition is > to make a ham alongside the turkey. BLECCHH!! sorry for the vomit. > > -anouk> > To send an email to - Groups Links<*> /<*> Your email settings:Individual Email | Traditional<*> To change settings online go to:/join(! ID required)<*> To change settings via email:-digest -fullfeatured <*> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 28, 2006 Report Share Posted October 28, 2006 The first time I heard of this was from people I work with, who like me, work full-time so presumably are working class! I don't know much about the cost of birds as I haven't bought meat for many years, but people, even working class, tend to spend more on their Christmas dinner than they would on any other dinner. Jo - peter VV Friday, October 27, 2006 6:19 PM Re: Re: fer you yanks It has?..........not amongst the working class maybe? sounds expensive? It sounds like something Henry VIII would have had ( after his larks tongue in aspic of course!) The Valley Vegan..............heartwerk <jo.heartwork wrote: Hi AnoukIn the UK the Christmas craze over the last few years has been to have a turkey, with a chicken inside it, with a pheasant inside that and a pigeon inside that!!! It's bad enough eating one bird, that is really gross.Jo> > oh by the way... my neighbor tells me that a new tradition is > to make a ham alongside the turkey. BLECCHH!! sorry for the vomit. > > -anouk> > To send an email to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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