Guest guest Posted December 14, 2006 Report Share Posted December 14, 2006 I recently finished reading "A Short History of Progress" by Ronald Wright--enthusiastically recommended to anyone who hasn't partaken. Anyway, Wright mentions that many of the legends we know from the Hebrew Bible, such as the Garden of Eden and the Flood, appear in earlier forms in "The Epic of Gilgamesh." I'm always looking for a racy vacation read about this time of year and wondered if anyone on the list has read it and can tell me how long it is and whether it would be worth buying, etc, etc., etc. Carolyn P.S. Sweet potato hummus recipe will be posted before I leave for Tennessee next week........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 14, 2006 Report Share Posted December 14, 2006 Hi The Glgamesh Epic is quite long. Peter will be able to give more information. I seem to remember typing it up when it was part of his degree. I quite enjoyed it - and I am not an academic. Jo , " Carolyn H " <wordwerks wrote: > > I recently finished reading " A Short History of Progress " by Ronald Wright--enthusiastically recommended to anyone who hasn't partaken. Anyway, Wright mentions that many of the legends we know from the Hebrew Bible, such as the Garden of Eden and the Flood, appear in earlier forms in " The Epic of Gilgamesh. " I'm always looking for a racy vacation read about this time of year and wondered if anyone on the list has read it and can tell me how long it is and whether it would be worth buying, etc, etc., etc. > > Carolyn > > P.S. Sweet potato hummus recipe will be posted before I leave for Tennessee next week....... > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 14, 2006 Report Share Posted December 14, 2006 Hi Carolyn Welcome! >I recently finished reading "A Short History of Progress" by Ronald Wright--enthusiastically recommended to anyone who hasn't partaken. Anyway, > Wright mentions that many of the legends we know from the Hebrew Bible, such as the Garden of Eden and the Flood, appear in earlier forms > in "The Epic of Gilgamesh." I'm always looking for a racy vacation read about this time of year and wondered if anyone on the list has read it and > can tell me how long it is and whether it would be worth buying, etc, etc., etc. Depends on what you end up getting hold of. The Gilgamesh Epic is a relatively late development of Sumerian culture - around 2000 to 1500 BCE. It developed out of lots of individual stories about Gilgamesh which date back to some of the earliest Sumerian writings (a bit before 3000 BCE), and was embroidered quite a bit. If you go for the original stories without the embelishment, you'd be looking at about a dozen stories which take about 10 minutes each to tell. If you went for a really late, embellished version, you would probably double that! Just to give you a taster, since you mention the flood story... (and this is a very short version) One day, a story reached the great king Gilgamesh of a man named Utnapishtim, who it was said had achieved immortality. Although Gilgamesh was long lived, he had never achieved this, and so set out on a journey to meet Utnapishtim and find out his secret. After travelling for several days, Gilgamesh arrived at a small cottage well away from any other humans. He knocked on the door, and it was answered by Utnapishtim, who invited Gilgamesh in, and gave him food and drink to help him recover from his long journey... (large section cut for sake of brevity). Gilgamesh asked Utnapishtim how he had achieved immortality, and Utnapishtim told his story: one day, a long time ago, the gods had decided that humanity had not been giving them the reverence they were due, and so they came up with a plan to destroy all of mankind - they would flood the whole world and mankind would drown. As the day approached when the rain would start, the great god El began to feel concerned for man, but all the gods had agreed not to warn humanity of their impending doom, so one day when Utnapishtim was out working in the fields, El whispered to the walls of Utnapishtim's house, telling the walls of the planned flood, and giving them instructions for building a large boat should anyone (hypothetically) want to survive. When Utnapishtim returned from the fields, the walls whispered the information to him, and so he did indeed build the boat, and when the rains came, he and his family boarded the boat, and were saved (again cut for brevity - lots of detail similar to the biblical story). As the waters subsided, the gods surveyed the world, and became distraught at the destruction they had created, and regretted their destruction of humanity, but on discovering Utnapishtim's survival, they were so happy that they granted him and his wife eternal life. Anyway... I won't ruin the rest of the story for you - all I'll say is that there's rather an unexpected twist at the end! :-) What is interesting is that just about every culture has some sort of flood story, with many, varied methods of how the gods decided to spare a few people (my favourite is the Cheyenne story of how the Yellowstone Valley was saved from the flood by having a white-buffalo skin stretched between the mountains in a giant umbrella!) BB Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 14, 2006 Report Share Posted December 14, 2006 Hi Peter! Thanks for that tasty tidbit--I love this stuff bigtime! could you recommend a translation of the dozen original stories and the embellished version? I'm looking forward to taking 2-3 days off next week to visit my mom and--I hope--read the Gilgamesh stories. I've never heard the Cheyenne flood story, which is really cool, but I've heard for years the Chickasaw story of how Reelfoot Lake in Tennessee, southern US, came to be. If you just google Reelfoot Lake, you can find lots of hits on the legend. It's a great story! To me, this is one of the endearing things about our much maligned (by some) species: the ability to observe how things are and weave a fanciful, fabulous story to explain the observations. I've run into many kids that are really, really good at it. show a kid a photo, and s/he'll oftentimes come up with an amazingly convoluted behind the scenes tale to explain the photo. Speaking of kids, did you hear about the discovery of the 3 million year old fossil remains of a little girl in Ethiopia? She's the same species as Lucy, but she has a face and both sets of teeth, a ribcage, a tiny kneecap, and a tiny hand that was curled into a grasp. I gather she was also mostly vegetarian. I don't know about anyone else, but I'm awestruck when I read about a discovery like this. It's overwhelming and humbling and inspirational to me to be a part of the chain/web of life. There's a National Geographic article about Dikika baby, as she's called, including a link to the original paper, here: http://www7.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/0611/feature6/index.html According to the article, "her discovery holds clues to the origin of childhood." Amazing stuff!!! Hope I can rein myself in for a few hours Carolyn - Peter Vegan Chat Thursday, December 14, 2006 9:38 AM Re: Hullo, the list! Hi Carolyn Welcome! >I recently finished reading "A Short History of Progress" by Ronald Wright--enthusiastically recommended to anyone who hasn't partaken. Anyway, > Wright mentions that many of the legends we know from the Hebrew Bible, such as the Garden of Eden and the Flood, appear in earlier forms > in "The Epic of Gilgamesh." I'm always looking for a racy vacation read about this time of year and wondered if anyone on the list has read it and > can tell me how long it is and whether it would be worth buying, etc, etc., etc. Depends on what you end up getting hold of. The Gilgamesh Epic is a relatively late development of Sumerian culture - around 2000 to 1500 BCE. It developed out of lots of individual stories about Gilgamesh which date back to some of the earliest Sumerian writings (a bit before 3000 BCE), and was embroidered quite a bit. If you go for the original stories without the embelishment, you'd be looking at about a dozen stories which take about 10 minutes each to tell. If you went for a really late, embellished version, you would probably double that! Just to give you a taster, since you mention the flood story... (and this is a very short version) One day, a story reached the great king Gilgamesh of a man named Utnapishtim, who it was said had achieved immortality. Although Gilgamesh was long lived, he had never achieved this, and so set out on a journey to meet Utnapishtim and find out his secret. After travelling for several days, Gilgamesh arrived at a small cottage well away from any other humans. He knocked on the door, and it was answered by Utnapishtim, who invited Gilgamesh in, and gave him food and drink to help him recover from his long journey... (large section cut for sake of brevity). Gilgamesh asked Utnapishtim how he had achieved immortality, and Utnapishtim told his story: one day, a long time ago, the gods had decided that humanity had not been giving them the reverence they were due, and so they came up with a plan to destroy all of mankind - they would flood the whole world and mankind would drown. As the day approached when the rain would start, the great god El began to feel concerned for man, but all the gods had agreed not to warn humanity of their impending doom, so one day when Utnapishtim was out working in the fields, El whispered to the walls of Utnapishtim's house, telling the walls of the planned flood, and giving them instructions for building a large boat should anyone (hypothetically) want to survive. When Utnapishtim returned from the fields, the walls whispered the information to him, and so he did indeed build the boat, and when the rains came, he and his family boarded the boat, and were saved (again cut for brevity - lots of detail similar to the biblical story). As the waters subsided, the gods surveyed the world, and became distraught at the destruction they had created, and regretted their destruction of humanity, but on discovering Utnapishtim's survival, they were so happy that they granted him and his wife eternal life. Anyway... I won't ruin the rest of the story for you - all I'll say is that there's rather an unexpected twist at the end! :-) What is interesting is that just about every culture has some sort of flood story, with many, varied methods of how the gods decided to spare a few people (my favourite is the Cheyenne story of how the Yellowstone Valley was saved from the flood by having a white-buffalo skin stretched between the mountains in a giant umbrella!) BB Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 14, 2006 Report Share Posted December 14, 2006 Jo, That must've been quite a typing project--I'm getting hand cramps just thinking about it. I'm not an academic either, but that doesn't stop me from enjoying a good tale! Car - heartwerk Thursday, December 14, 2006 2:37 AM Re: Hullo, the list! HiThe Glgamesh Epic is quite long. Peter will be able to give more information. I seem to remember typing it up when it was part of his degree. I quite enjoyed it - and I am not an academic.Jo , "Carolyn H" <wordwerks wrote:>> I recently finished reading "A Short History of Progress" by Ronald Wright--enthusiastically recommended to anyone who hasn't partaken. Anyway, Wright mentions that many of the legends we know from the Hebrew Bible, such as the Garden of Eden and the Flood, appear in earlier forms in "The Epic of Gilgamesh." I'm always looking for a racy vacation read about this time of year and wondered if anyone on the list has read it and can tell me how long it is and whether it would be worth buying, etc, etc., etc.> > Carolyn> > P.S. Sweet potato hummus recipe will be posted before I leave for Tennessee next week.......> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 14, 2006 Report Share Posted December 14, 2006 CARROLL & GRAF books $14.95 part of the myth series one of ours *toots own horn* hee hee good book as is the gilgamesh epic tho loonnnng Carolyn H Dec 13, 2006 5:08 PM Hullo, the list! I recently finished reading "A Short History of Progress" by Ronald Wright--enthusiastically recommended to anyone who hasn't partaken. Anyway, Wright mentions that many of the legends we know from the Hebrew Bible, such as the Garden of Eden and the Flood, appear in earlier forms in "The Epic of Gilgamesh." I'm always looking for a racy vacation read about this time of year and wondered if anyone on the list has read it and can tell me how long it is and whether it would be worth buying, etc, etc., etc. Carolyn P.S. Sweet potato hummus recipe will be posted before I leave for Tennessee next week........ History repeats itself and each time the price gets higher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 14, 2006 Report Share Posted December 14, 2006 been awhile since i read the dang thing but, there's been some great specials on it..tho can't recall if they were Discovery times, history international, or science channel >heartwerk <jo.heartwork >Dec 13, 2006 11:37 PM > > Re: Hullo, the list! > >Hi > >The Glgamesh Epic is quite long. Peter will be able to give more >information. I seem to remember typing it up when it was part of his >degree. I quite enjoyed it - and I am not an academic. > >Jo > > , " Carolyn H " <wordwerks wrote: >> >> I recently finished reading " A Short History of Progress " by Ronald >Wright--enthusiastically recommended to anyone who hasn't partaken. >Anyway, Wright mentions that many of the legends we know from the >Hebrew Bible, such as the Garden of Eden and the Flood, appear in >earlier forms in " The Epic of Gilgamesh. " I'm always looking for a >racy vacation read about this time of year and wondered if anyone on >the list has read it and can tell me how long it is and whether it >would be worth buying, etc, etc., etc. >> >> Carolyn >> >> P.S. Sweet potato hummus recipe will be posted before I leave for >Tennessee next week....... >> > > > > >To send an email to - > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 14, 2006 Report Share Posted December 14, 2006 Fraggle, Which part of the myth series? are you an editor for Carroll & Graf? I really don't care if it's long if it's good. I finally got around to reading the Lord of the Rings trilogy last year--only read in bed so it took me about a year to finish it. car toots own horn? is that like a dog...er........never mind........... - fraggle Thursday, December 14, 2006 1:50 PM Re: Hullo, the list! CARROLL & GRAF books $14.95 part of the myth series one of ours *toots own horn* hee hee good book as is the gilgamesh epic tho loonnnng Carolyn H Dec 13, 2006 5:08 PM Hullo, the list! I recently finished reading "A Short History of Progress" by Ronald Wright--enthusiastically recommended to anyone who hasn't partaken. Anyway, Wright mentions that many of the legends we know from the Hebrew Bible, such as the Garden of Eden and the Flood, appear in earlier forms in "The Epic of Gilgamesh." I'm always looking for a racy vacation read about this time of year and wondered if anyone on the list has read it and can tell me how long it is and whether it would be worth buying, etc, etc., etc. Carolyn P.S. Sweet potato hummus recipe will be posted before I leave for Tennessee next week........History repeats itself and each time the price gets higher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 14, 2006 Report Share Posted December 14, 2006 I work for PGW we are an umbrella publishing house small publishers come to us, we print their books, market them, warehouse them, ship and sell them we also loan them money to keep afloat.. http://www.pgw.com/home/ Carolyn H Dec 14, 2006 11:02 AM Re: Hullo, the list! Fraggle, Which part of the myth series? are you an editor for Carroll & Graf? I really don't care if it's long if it's good. I finally got around to reading the Lord of the Rings trilogy last year--only read in bed so it took me about a year to finish it. car toots own horn? is that like a dog...er........never mind........... - fraggle Thursday, December 14, 2006 1:50 PM Re: Hullo, the list! CARROLL & GRAF books $14.95 part of the myth series one of ours *toots own horn* hee hee good book as is the gilgamesh epic tho loonnnng Carolyn H Dec 13, 2006 5:08 PM Hullo, the list! I recently finished reading "A Short History of Progress" by Ronald Wright--enthusiastically recommended to anyone who hasn't partaken. Anyway, Wright mentions that many of the legends we know from the Hebrew Bible, such as the Garden of Eden and the Flood, appear in earlier forms in "The Epic of Gilgamesh." I'm always looking for a racy vacation read about this time of year and wondered if anyone on the list has read it and can tell me how long it is and whether it would be worth buying, etc, etc., etc. Carolyn P.S. Sweet potato hummus recipe will be posted before I leave for Tennessee next week........History repeats itself and each time the price gets higher History repeats itself and each time the price gets higher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 14, 2006 Report Share Posted December 14, 2006 whoopssorryits canongate that do the myth series, another of our publishershttp://www.canongate.net/ History repeats itself and each time the price gets higher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 14, 2006 Report Share Posted December 14, 2006 Cool--thanks. I went to the Carroll & Graf site, and they have lots of books I'd like to buy if only I had the money and a warehouse for the goods. - fraggle Thursday, December 14, 2006 2:15 PM Re: Hullo, the list! I work for PGW we are an umbrella publishing house small publishers come to us, we print their books, market them, warehouse them, ship and sell them we also loan them money to keep afloat.. http://www.pgw.com/home/ Carolyn H Dec 14, 2006 11:02 AM Re: Hullo, the list! Fraggle, Which part of the myth series? are you an editor for Carroll & Graf? I really don't care if it's long if it's good. I finally got around to reading the Lord of the Rings trilogy last year--only read in bed so it took me about a year to finish it. car toots own horn? is that like a dog...er........never mind........... - fraggle Thursday, December 14, 2006 1:50 PM Re: Hullo, the list! CARROLL & GRAF books $14.95 part of the myth series one of ours *toots own horn* hee hee good book as is the gilgamesh epic tho loonnnng Carolyn H Dec 13, 2006 5:08 PM Hullo, the list! I recently finished reading "A Short History of Progress" by Ronald Wright--enthusiastically recommended to anyone who hasn't partaken. Anyway, Wright mentions that many of the legends we know from the Hebrew Bible, such as the Garden of Eden and the Flood, appear in earlier forms in "The Epic of Gilgamesh." I'm always looking for a racy vacation read about this time of year and wondered if anyone on the list has read it and can tell me how long it is and whether it would be worth buying, etc, etc., etc. Carolyn P.S. Sweet potato hummus recipe will be posted before I leave for Tennessee next week........History repeats itself and each time the price gets higher History repeats itself and each time the price gets higher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 14, 2006 Report Share Posted December 14, 2006 thanks, I'll have a look around canongate next time I come up for air. car - fraggle Thursday, December 14, 2006 2:26 PM Re: Hullo, the list! whoopssorryits canongate that do the myth series, another of our publishershttp://www.canongate.net/History repeats itself and each time the price gets higher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 14, 2006 Report Share Posted December 14, 2006 i suffer the same dilemna too many times on my lunch break do i wonder over to Cody books only to come to my senses and out of the fog as i march toward the checkout counter with a backbreaking amount of books luckily i come to just in time.... Carolyn H Dec 14, 2006 11:39 AM Re: Hullo, the list! Cool--thanks. I went to the Carroll & Graf site, and they have lots of books I'd like to buy if only I had the money and a warehouse for the goods. - fraggle Thursday, December 14, 2006 2:15 PM Re: Hullo, the list! I work for PGW we are an umbrella publishing house small publishers come to us, we print their books, market them, warehouse them, ship and sell them we also loan them money to keep afloat.. http://www.pgw.com/home/ Carolyn H Dec 14, 2006 11:02 AM Re: Hullo, the list! Fraggle, Which part of the myth series? are you an editor for Carroll & Graf? I really don't care if it's long if it's good. I finally got around to reading the Lord of the Rings trilogy last year--only read in bed so it took me about a year to finish it. car toots own horn? is that like a dog...er........never mind........... - fraggle Thursday, December 14, 2006 1:50 PM Re: Hullo, the list! CARROLL & GRAF books $14.95 part of the myth series one of ours *toots own horn* hee hee good book as is the gilgamesh epic tho loonnnng Carolyn H Dec 13, 2006 5:08 PM Hullo, the list! I recently finished reading "A Short History of Progress" by Ronald Wright--enthusiastically recommended to anyone who hasn't partaken. Anyway, Wright mentions that many of the legends we know from the Hebrew Bible, such as the Garden of Eden and the Flood, appear in earlier forms in "The Epic of Gilgamesh." I'm always looking for a racy vacation read about this time of year and wondered if anyone on the list has read it and can tell me how long it is and whether it would be worth buying, etc, etc., etc. Carolyn P.S. Sweet potato hummus recipe will be posted before I leave for Tennessee next week........History repeats itself and each time the price gets higher History repeats itself and each time the price gets higher History repeats itself and each time the price gets higher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 14, 2006 Report Share Posted December 14, 2006 we've already got 6 tons of books (so the movers told us); more likely they were just paddin their wee pockets - fraggle Thursday, December 14, 2006 2:53 PM Re: Hullo, the list! i suffer the same dilemna too many times on my lunch break do i wonder over to Cody books only to come to my senses and out of the fog as i march toward the checkout counter with a backbreaking amount of books luckily i come to just in time.... Carolyn H Dec 14, 2006 11:39 AM Re: Hullo, the list! Cool--thanks. I went to the Carroll & Graf site, and they have lots of books I'd like to buy if only I had the money and a warehouse for the goods. - fraggle Thursday, December 14, 2006 2:15 PM Re: Hullo, the list! I work for PGW we are an umbrella publishing house small publishers come to us, we print their books, market them, warehouse them, ship and sell them we also loan them money to keep afloat.. http://www.pgw.com/home/ Carolyn H Dec 14, 2006 11:02 AM Re: Hullo, the list! Fraggle, Which part of the myth series? are you an editor for Carroll & Graf? I really don't care if it's long if it's good. I finally got around to reading the Lord of the Rings trilogy last year--only read in bed so it took me about a year to finish it. car toots own horn? is that like a dog...er........never mind........... - fraggle Thursday, December 14, 2006 1:50 PM Re: Hullo, the list! CARROLL & GRAF books $14.95 part of the myth series one of ours *toots own horn* hee hee good book as is the gilgamesh epic tho loonnnng Carolyn H Dec 13, 2006 5:08 PM Hullo, the list! I recently finished reading "A Short History of Progress" by Ronald Wright--enthusiastically recommended to anyone who hasn't partaken. Anyway, Wright mentions that many of the legends we know from the Hebrew Bible, such as the Garden of Eden and the Flood, appear in earlier forms in "The Epic of Gilgamesh." I'm always looking for a racy vacation read about this time of year and wondered if anyone on the list has read it and can tell me how long it is and whether it would be worth buying, etc, etc., etc. Carolyn P.S. Sweet potato hummus recipe will be posted before I leave for Tennessee next week........History repeats itself and each time the price gets higher History repeats itself and each time the price gets higher History repeats itself and each time the price gets higher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 15, 2006 Report Share Posted December 15, 2006 Hi Carolyn I like typing anyway - so enjoyed doing it. Jo - Carolyn H Thursday, December 14, 2006 4:58 PM Re: Re: Hullo, the list! Jo, That must've been quite a typing project--I'm getting hand cramps just thinking about it. I'm not an academic either, but that doesn't stop me from enjoying a good tale! Car - heartwerk Thursday, December 14, 2006 2:37 AM Re: Hullo, the list! HiThe Glgamesh Epic is quite long. Peter will be able to give more information. I seem to remember typing it up when it was part of his degree. I quite enjoyed it - and I am not an academic.Jo , "Carolyn H" <wordwerks wrote:>> I recently finished reading "A Short History of Progress" by Ronald Wright--enthusiastically recommended to anyone who hasn't partaken. Anyway, Wright mentions that many of the legends we know from the Hebrew Bible, such as the Garden of Eden and the Flood, appear in earlier forms in "The Epic of Gilgamesh." I'm always looking for a racy vacation read about this time of year and wondered if anyone on the list has read it and can tell me how long it is and whether it would be worth buying, etc, etc., etc.> > Carolyn> > P.S. Sweet potato hummus recipe will be posted before I leave for Tennessee next week.......> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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