Guest guest Posted January 30, 2007 Report Share Posted January 30, 2007 does anyone know what is the proper way to recycle cooking oil? we don't usually fry, but about once a month we like french fries that are homemade. what does one do with the leftover oil? I know that pouring it down the drain is pollution fro the fish and other water animals. I would like to find a better way of disposing cooked oil. -anouk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2007 Report Share Posted January 30, 2007 >does anyone know what is the >proper way to recycle cooking oil? Some people in Berkeley and San Francisco (California, US) are running cars with waste oil that they get from restaurants! IIRC they use it directly (maybe filtered). Others have diesel cars that they run with waste oil that has been run through an extensive process that separates out the glycerin portion, producing " biodiesel. " In other words, instead of spending money for fuel (gasoline, petrol), they use waste oil, either directly (more or less) or processed. I'm sure you can google to find out more about the biodiesel cooperative or about using waste oil directly. Maybe you can find people in your area who are interested in doing this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2007 Report Share Posted January 30, 2007 give it to someone who runs their vehicle with biodiesel you can add small amounts to the compost you can strain it and use it again to cook with you can weatherproof that old fence! you can dip newspaper in it, and then use the newpaper as a weed barrier/mulch you can make soap >flower child <zurumato >Jan 30, 2007 12:30 AM > > oil? > >does anyone know what is the >proper way to recycle cooking oil? > >we don't usually fry, but about once a month we >like french fries that are homemade. > >what does one do with the leftover oil? >I know that pouring it down the drain is >pollution fro the fish and other water animals. > >I would like to find a better way of disposing >cooked oil. > >-anouk > > > > > >To send an email to - > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2007 Report Share Posted January 30, 2007 You can use it as a tool cleaner too! *mona , fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote: > > give it to someone who runs their vehicle with biodiesel > > > > you can add small amounts to the compost > > you can strain it and use it again to cook with > > you can weatherproof that old fence! > > you can dip newspaper in it, and then use the newpaper as a weed barrier/mulch > > > you can make soap > > > > >flower child <zurumato > >Jan 30, 2007 12:30 AM > > > > oil? > > > >does anyone know what is the > >proper way to recycle cooking oil? > > > >we don't usually fry, but about once a month we > >like french fries that are homemade. > > > >what does one do with the leftover oil? > >I know that pouring it down the drain is > >pollution fro the fish and other water animals. > > > >I would like to find a better way of disposing > >cooked oil. > > > >-anouk > > > > > > > > > > > >To send an email to - > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2007 Report Share Posted January 31, 2007 How woulod you find soemoen that uses it to power their vehicle? anyoen know? How would you weatherproof a fence with it? How does ti work as a weed barrier mulch? And How would you make it into soap? , fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote: > > give it to someone who runs their vehicle with biodiesel > > > > you can add small amounts to the compost > > you can strain it and use it again to cook with > > you can weatherproof that old fence! > > you can dip newspaper in it, and then use the newpaper as a weed barrier/mulch > > > you can make soap > > > > >flower child <zurumato > >Jan 30, 2007 12:30 AM > > > > oil? > > > >does anyone know what is the > >proper way to recycle cooking oil? > > > >we don't usually fry, but about once a month we > >like french fries that are homemade. > > > >what does one do with the leftover oil? > >I know that pouring it down the drain is > >pollution fro the fish and other water animals. > > > >I would like to find a better way of disposing > >cooked oil. > > > >-anouk > > > > > > > > > > > >To send an email to - > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2007 Report Share Posted January 31, 2007 Weatherproof a fence? imagine the stink when the sun comes up! The Valley Vegan............fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote: give it to someone who runs their vehicle with biodiesel:)you can add small amounts to the compostyou can strain it and use it again to cook withyou can weatherproof that old fence!you can dip newspaper in it, and then use the newpaper as a weed barrier/mulchyou can make soap-----Original Message----->flower child <zurumato (AT) earthlink (DOT) net>>Jan 30, 2007 12:30 AM> > oil?>>does anyone know what is the >proper way to recycle cooking oil?>>we don't usually fry, but about once a month we >like french fries that are homemade.>>what does one do with the leftover oil? >I know that pouring it down the drain is >pollution fro the fish and other water animals.>>I would like to find a better way of disposing>cooked oil. >>-anouk>>>>>>To send an email to - > Links>>>"Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, signifies in the final sense a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed." -- Dwight Eisenhower Peter H New Mail is the ultimate force in competitive emailing. Find out more at the Mail Championships. Plus: play games and win prizes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2007 Report Share Posted January 31, 2007 The answer to all questions is google! If you live near a college, chances are someone is experimenting with biodiesel. Google biodiesel [your town or nearest college] to find a local user. Any enviro groups nearby? Ask around. Also google UCO (used cooking oil) and frybrid vehicles. I wouldn't use oiled paper as a weed barrier mulch -- it makes extra work and mess. Plain newspaper (2-5 sheets) covered with a few inches of mulch (2 to 10 inches) makes an excellent weed barrier. I got rid of bad weeds -- bindweed and bermuda grass -- in one season this way. Google soapmaking to get a recipe. Historically, any used oil or rancid grease has been used in soap. You can also brainstorm other uses of veg oil and see what you find. Maybe burn it in oil lamps (if you don't mind the lingering odor of french fries for several days)? Or add eucalyptus or citronella oil and make a mosquito-repelling oil lamp for summer nights? I haven't tried this, though. The more I think about uses for old oil, the happier I am that I don't use oil! After years of not cooking with oil (except a teaspoon here and there to coat baking pans), I don't find fried foods appealing. Even when I still ate fried potatoes, I discovered that I much preferred them this way: cut potatoes in small angular chunks and bake on a nonstick baking sheet (not oiled). They come out crispy! I made a batch once when a housemate's friend was visiting, and half were gone by the time I got them to the table. It's a great snack. Another idea is to toss them with just enough oil to make seasonings stick -- I like to use a pepper-garlic-dried veg mixture on my nonoiled version. Or make a dip from soy yogurt and seasonings of your choice. >How woulod you find soemoen that uses it [biodiesel or used oil] to >power their vehicle? >How would you weatherproof a fence with it? >How does ti work as a weed barrier mulch? >And How would you make it into soap? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2007 Report Share Posted January 31, 2007 http://www.biodiesel.org/ >angelikfiona <angelik_kitty_kat >Jan 31, 2007 8:17 AM > > Re: oil? > >How woulod you find soemoen that uses it to power their vehicle? >anyoen know? > >How would you weatherproof a fence with it? > >How does ti work as a weed barrier mulch? > > >And How would you make it into soap? > > > > , fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote: >> >> give it to someone who runs their vehicle with biodiesel >> >> >> >> you can add small amounts to the compost >> >> you can strain it and use it again to cook with >> >> you can weatherproof that old fence! >> >> you can dip newspaper in it, and then use the newpaper as a weed >barrier/mulch >> >> >> you can make soap >> >> >> >> >flower child <zurumato >> >Jan 30, 2007 12:30 AM >> > >> > oil? >> > >> >does anyone know what is the >> >proper way to recycle cooking oil? >> > >> >we don't usually fry, but about once a month we >> >like french fries that are homemade. >> > >> >what does one do with the leftover oil? >> >I know that pouring it down the drain is >> >pollution fro the fish and other water animals. >> > >> >I would like to find a better way of disposing >> >cooked oil. >> > >> >-anouk >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >To send an email to - > >> > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2007 Report Share Posted January 31, 2007 Hi yarrow, fraggle and others, thanks for the oil tips. I have learned a lot. It is a good idea to not fry. it just doesn't seem that natural. but my taste buds love it. however, I think that I will try baked french fries, I have been told that kids can't tell the difference and that they taste quite good/similar to those baked. I do love olive oil on my salad and on breads however I eat all of it and there isn't much waste there. thanks! -anouk , yarrow wrote: > > The answer to all questions is google! If you live near a college, > chances are someone is experimenting with biodiesel. Google biodiesel > [your town or nearest college] to find a local user. Any enviro > groups nearby? Ask around. Also google UCO (used cooking oil) and > frybrid vehicles. > > I wouldn't use oiled paper as a weed barrier mulch -- it makes extra > work and mess. Plain newspaper (2-5 sheets) covered with a few inches > of mulch (2 to 10 inches) makes an excellent weed barrier. I got rid > of bad weeds -- bindweed and bermuda grass -- in one season this way. > > Google soapmaking to get a recipe. Historically, any used oil or > rancid grease has been used in soap. > > You can also brainstorm other uses of veg oil and see what you find. > Maybe burn it in oil lamps (if you don't mind the lingering odor of > french fries for several days)? Or add eucalyptus or citronella oil > and make a mosquito-repelling oil lamp for summer nights? I haven't > tried this, though. > > The more I think about uses for old oil, the happier I am that I > don't use oil! After years of not cooking with oil (except a teaspoon > here and there to coat baking pans), I don't find fried foods > appealing. Even when I still ate fried potatoes, I discovered that I > much preferred them this way: cut potatoes in small angular chunks > and bake on a nonstick baking sheet (not oiled). They come out > crispy! I made a batch once when a housemate's friend was visiting, > and half were gone by the time I got them to the table. It's a great > snack. Another idea is to toss them with just enough oil to make > seasonings stick -- I like to use a pepper-garlic-dried veg mixture > on my nonoiled version. Or make a dip from soy yogurt and seasonings > of your choice. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2007 Report Share Posted January 31, 2007 there's a biodiesel place literally 4 blocks from my work well..as long as i'm still here.... but..yes...google is yer friend... " Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, signifies in the final sense a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed. " -- Dwight Eisenhower Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2007 Report Share Posted January 31, 2007 You can use Vegan rice butter to coat your pans instead. I got mien from Whole Foods Market. Also, dont you use soem kind of oil when you bake, some baking recipes requrie it? , yarrow wrote: > > The answer to all questions is google! If you live near a college, > chances are someone is experimenting with biodiesel. Google biodiesel > [your town or nearest college] to find a local user. Any enviro > groups nearby? Ask around. Also google UCO (used cooking oil) and > frybrid vehicles. > > I wouldn't use oiled paper as a weed barrier mulch -- it makes extra > work and mess. Plain newspaper (2-5 sheets) covered with a few inches > of mulch (2 to 10 inches) makes an excellent weed barrier. I got rid > of bad weeds -- bindweed and bermuda grass -- in one season this way. > > Google soapmaking to get a recipe. Historically, any used oil or > rancid grease has been used in soap. > > You can also brainstorm other uses of veg oil and see what you find. > Maybe burn it in oil lamps (if you don't mind the lingering odor of > french fries for several days)? Or add eucalyptus or citronella oil > and make a mosquito-repelling oil lamp for summer nights? I haven't > tried this, though. > > The more I think about uses for old oil, the happier I am that I > don't use oil! After years of not cooking with oil (except a teaspoon > here and there to coat baking pans), I don't find fried foods > appealing. Even when I still ate fried potatoes, I discovered that I > much preferred them this way: cut potatoes in small angular chunks > and bake on a nonstick baking sheet (not oiled). They come out > crispy! I made a batch once when a housemate's friend was visiting, > and half were gone by the time I got them to the table. It's a great > snack. Another idea is to toss them with just enough oil to make > seasonings stick -- I like to use a pepper-garlic-dried veg mixture > on my nonoiled version. Or make a dip from soy yogurt and seasonings > of your choice. > > >How woulod you find soemoen that uses it [biodiesel or used oil] to > >power their vehicle? > >How would you weatherproof a fence with it? > >How does ti work as a weed barrier mulch? > >And How would you make it into soap? > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 1, 2007 Report Share Posted February 1, 2007 " angelikfiona " <angelik_kitty_kat wrote: >Also, dont you use soem kind of oil when you bake, some baking >recipes requrie it? No, I don't. I've used substitutes such as applesauce, pumpkin, prunes, etc. Either I find a recipe that does not use oil, or I think about why the oil is in the recipe, then look for a good substitute. In many cases the oil is there to make the baked good more tender. Sometimes I just use another liquid (water, rice or soy milk, etc.) instead of oil. For instance, I've been playing around with a recipe for chewy oatmeal cookies that aren't sugar bombs. I like a chewy texture, so right away I know that oil is not required in my recipe. The recipe I found and have been experimenting with had the following ingredients (followed by the substitutes I tried): rolled oats whole wheat flour molasses (I ran out, so I used half turbinado sugar, and they were too sweet; then I made them with half the amount of molasses, plus some water to replace the liquid, which worked well) baby food (instead, I used jars of prune butter; tins of pumpkin; and if I had it on hand I would also try applesauce.) cinnamon (I used more than double the amount) ginger (I used double the amount) baking powder vanilla (I've added some chocolate shavings, chocolate chips, or walnuts to different batches. A couple chocolate chips in a cookie make it the ideal level of sweetness for me.) The only oils I have on hand are peanut oil that I pour off when I open the jar of peanut butter (because it's too much work to mix it in!) and a small jar of sesame oil. This small amount of peanut oil is more than enough for baking; it's hard to find oils in very small quantities. I use the sesame oil as a flavoring -- it adds a huge amount of flavor to edamame and occasionally rice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 1, 2007 Report Share Posted February 1, 2007 Yarrow, the pouring off the peanut oil from the peanut butter is a great idea ... thanks for mentioning! *mona , yarrow wrote: > > " angelikfiona " <angelik_kitty_kat wrote: > >Also, dont you use soem kind of oil when you bake, some baking > >recipes requrie it? > > > No, I don't. I've used substitutes such as applesauce, pumpkin, > prunes, etc. Either I find a recipe that does not use oil, or I think > about why the oil is in the recipe, then look for a good substitute. > In many cases the oil is there to make the baked good more tender. > Sometimes I just use another liquid (water, rice or soy milk, etc.) > instead of oil. For instance, I've been playing around with a recipe > for chewy oatmeal cookies that aren't sugar bombs. I like a chewy > texture, so right away I know that oil is not required in my recipe. > The recipe I found and have been experimenting with had the following > ingredients (followed by the substitutes I tried): > rolled oats > whole wheat flour > molasses (I ran out, so I used half turbinado sugar, and they were > too sweet; then I made them with half the amount of molasses, plus > some water to replace the liquid, which worked well) > baby food (instead, I used jars of prune butter; tins of pumpkin; and > if I had it on hand I would also try applesauce.) > cinnamon (I used more than double the amount) > ginger (I used double the amount) > baking powder > vanilla > (I've added some chocolate shavings, chocolate chips, or walnuts to > different batches. A couple chocolate chips in a cookie make it the > ideal level of sweetness for me.) > > The only oils I have on hand are peanut oil that I pour off when I > open the jar of peanut butter (because it's too much work to mix it > in!) and a small jar of sesame oil. This small amount of peanut oil > is more than enough for baking; it's hard to find oils in very small > quantities. I use the sesame oil as a flavoring -- it adds a huge > amount of flavor to edamame and occasionally rice. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 1, 2007 Report Share Posted February 1, 2007 hi yarrow, i also use applesause as an egg substite as well as a banana for cake recipes. thanks for the tips. are your getting the beneficial oils through your food? like the omega threes? I get mine through, hemp waffles and cereal with flax. by the way, don't buy the tropicana juice that says " heart healthy " it's got fish in it. -anouk , yarrow wrote: > No, I don't. I've used substitutes such as applesauce, pumpkin, > prunes, etc. Either I find a recipe that does not use oil, or I think > about why the oil is in the recipe, then look for a good substitute. > In many cases the oil is there to make the baked good more tender. > Sometimes I just use another liquid (water, rice or soy milk, etc.) > instead of oil. For instance, I've been playing around with a recipe > for chewy oatmeal cookies that aren't sugar bombs. I like a chewy > texture, so right away I know that oil is not required in my recipe. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 1, 2007 Report Share Posted February 1, 2007 anouk wrote: >are your getting the beneficial oils through your food? >like the omega threes? Yes, I get them from my food -- nuts, especially, have an abundance of good oils, and of course grains and legumes -- and also I add flax meal to my morning oatmeal. I got the idea of adding flax from Michael Greger MD (http://www.DrGreger.org), who gave a persuasive talk about the necessity of adding omega-3 from flax, as well as vitamin b-12, to a vegan diet. (Hmm, maybe not so persuasive, since I still haven't been able to bring myself to take b-12 daily. I just don't like to take pills. I used to tell myself b-12 was added to many things I eat, such as rice milk or emergen-c or nutritional yeast, but I don't think I've eaten anything with added b-12 in it this week.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 1, 2007 Report Share Posted February 1, 2007 i don't do supplements either i was about the only person in this group that didn't........ >yarrow >Feb 1, 2007 5:51 PM > > Re: oil? > >anouk wrote: >>are your getting the beneficial oils through your food? >>like the omega threes? > >Yes, I get them from my food -- nuts, especially, have an abundance >of good oils, and of course grains and legumes -- and also I add flax >meal to my morning oatmeal. I got the idea of adding flax from >Michael Greger MD >(http://www.DrGreger.org), who gave a persuasive talk about the >necessity of adding omega-3 from flax, as well as vitamin b-12, to a >vegan diet. (Hmm, maybe not so persuasive, since I still haven't been >able to bring myself to take b-12 daily. I just don't like to take >pills. I used to tell myself b-12 was added to many things I eat, >such as rice milk or emergen-c or nutritional yeast, but I don't >think I've eaten anything with added b-12 in it this week.) > > >To send an email to - > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 2, 2007 Report Share Posted February 2, 2007 You really should supplement with B12. I am not normally one to tell people what they should do, but it is very important. Vitamin B12 is needed to keep homocysteine levels down. Homocysteine is responsible for heart trouble. In my opinion, and that of most nutritionists, it is one of the most important things you can do for your health. You cannot get enough in your diet. In studies of lifespan it was found that vegans live about five years longer than meat eaters, and vegetarians live about eight years longer than meat eaters. Upon research it was found that the vegans did not live as long as vegetarians because of the low levels of B12 in their bodies. They are now following what happens to vegans who supplement with B12 because it is very probably that vegans who supplement B12 will live a couple of years longer than vegetarians (hence about ten years longer than meat eaters). Isn't it worth supplementing with B12 for that reason Jo , fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote: > > i don't do supplements either > i was about the only person in this group that didn't........ > > > >yarrow > >Feb 1, 2007 5:51 PM > > > > Re: oil? > > > >anouk wrote: > >>are your getting the beneficial oils through your food? > >>like the omega threes? > > > >Yes, I get them from my food -- nuts, especially, have an abundance > >of good oils, and of course grains and legumes -- and also I add flax > >meal to my morning oatmeal. I got the idea of adding flax from > >Michael Greger MD > >(http://www.DrGreger.org), who gave a persuasive talk about the > >necessity of adding omega-3 from flax, as well as vitamin b-12, to a > >vegan diet. (Hmm, maybe not so persuasive, since I still haven't been > >able to bring myself to take b-12 daily. I just don't like to take > >pills. I used to tell myself b-12 was added to many things I eat, > >such as rice milk or emergen-c or nutritional yeast, but I don't > >think I've eaten anything with added b-12 in it this week.) > > > > > >To send an email to - > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 2, 2007 Report Share Posted February 2, 2007 Me neither, I did start to take the vegan societys suppliment last winter, but didnt bother after one or two.......... The Valley Vegan.................fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote: i don't do supplements eitheri was about the only person in this group that didn't........>yarrowFeb 1, 2007 5:51 PM> > Re: oil?>>anouk wrote:>>are your getting the beneficial oils through your food?>>like the omega threes?>>Yes, I get them from my food -- nuts, especially, have an abundance >of good oils, and of course grains and legumes -- and also I add flax >meal to my morning oatmeal. I got the idea of adding flax from >Michael Greger MD>(http://www.DrGreger.org), who gave a persuasive talk about the >necessity of adding omega-3 from flax, as well as vitamin b-12, to a >vegan diet. (Hmm, maybe not so persuasive, since I still haven't been >able to bring myself to take b-12 daily. I just don't like to take >pills. I used to tell myself b-12 was added to many things I eat, >such as rice milk or emergen-c or nutritional yeast, but I don't >think I've eaten anything with added b-12 in it this week.)>>>To send an email to - > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 2, 2007 Report Share Posted February 2, 2007 So how do you guys feel about the B12 debate? Are you concerned at all? I'm not really concerned but the talk of the importance of B12 has my attention and I'm looking into it deeper. *mona , peter VV <swpgh01 wrote: > > Me neither, I did start to take the vegan societys suppliment last winter, but didnt bother after one or two.......... > > The Valley Vegan................. > > fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote: > i don't do supplements either > i was about the only person in this group that didn't........ > > > >yarrow > >Feb 1, 2007 5:51 PM > > > > Re: oil? > > > >anouk wrote: > >>are your getting the beneficial oils through your food? > >>like the omega threes? > > > >Yes, I get them from my food -- nuts, especially, have an abundance > >of good oils, and of course grains and legumes -- and also I add flax > >meal to my morning oatmeal. I got the idea of adding flax from > >Michael Greger MD > >(http://www.DrGreger.org), who gave a persuasive talk about the > >necessity of adding omega-3 from flax, as well as vitamin b-12, to a > >vegan diet. (Hmm, maybe not so persuasive, since I still haven't been > >able to bring myself to take b-12 daily. I just don't like to take > >pills. I used to tell myself b-12 was added to many things I eat, > >such as rice milk or emergen-c or nutritional yeast, but I don't > >think I've eaten anything with added b-12 in it this week.) > > > > > >To send an email to - > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 2, 2007 Report Share Posted February 2, 2007 I have already said that I feel it is very important - if it adds a few years to your life and avoids heart trouble it should be worth it. I know when you are young you feel that you are invincible, but things catch up with you when you get older. This article is from the Vegan Society website:- Homocysteine and health Stephen Walsh, PhD The little known amino acid homocysteine has been the subject of great interest in the medical community since the early 1990s as evidence accumulated that even moderately elevated levels went hand in hand with increased risk of heart diseas, birth defects, dementia, depression and death. Independent studies in Israel, USA, Norway and Holland have shown homocysteine to be strongly associated with mortality from all causes combined and thus a potentially greater risk factor than cholesterol: every 10% increase in homocysteine is associated with a 8% increase in mortality from all causes and a one year reduction in life expectancy. Apart from kidney disease and certain rare genetic defects, low intakes of any of three vitamins (folate, vitamin B12 and vitamin B6) can cause homocysteine levels to rise. Supplementation trials using folate, B12 and B6 to reduce homocysteine showed a reduction in symptoms of heart disease, including the rate of progression of atherosclerosis. Supplementation with 4 mg per day of folate reduced the incidence of neural tube defects such as spina bifida by about 70% while 0.8 mg of folic acid plus 4 micrograms (µg) of B12 reduced neural tube defects by 100%. At first, there was considerable optimism that on a plant-based diet homocysteine levels would be lower, due to high folate levels, and a recent trial showed that homocysteine levels decreased within a week of switching from a typical Western diet to a vegan diet with plenty of vegetables. However, other studies have shown that many long-term vegans have blood homocysteine levels around 15 µmol/l compared with desirable levels below 10 µmol/l, while other vegetarians averaged about 12 µmol/l. This trend is not found in vegans ensuring B12 intakes of 3 µg or more per day, who show the expected benefit from high folate and plentiful B6 with homocysteine levels around 8 µmol/l compared with a Western average of about 10 µmol/l. The bar graph shows the results of recent studies on homocysteine and diet. With the exception of one study in the USA in 1999, the highest levels of homocysteine were observed in vegans, with lacto-vegetarian levels also higher than meat eaters. The critical role of B12 can be seen from the comparisons of B12 and folate intakes in the same studies. The B12 levels of vegans were generally the lowest, while the B12 levels of other vegetarians fell between those of vegans and meat eaters. In contrast, the vegan folate levels were generally higher than or similar to the other groups. In the 1999 USA study, the vegan B12 levels matched those of the meat eaters and so did the homocysteine levels. To remove any shadow of doubt as to the cause of the high homocysteine levels, the Chilean study subsequently monitored the effect of B12 supplementation: the homocysteine levels of the Chilean vegetarians dropped from 13 to 8 µmol/l with no other dietary changes. Average vegan homocysteine levels are about 15 µmol/l. Based on studies in the general population, this degree of excess homocysteine could be associated with a 40% increase in mortality, particularly from causes other than cancer. Low vegan cholesterol levels would be expected to reduce heart disease deaths by about 50% compared with meat-eaters, so the overall result would be expected to be 30% less heart disease but 40% increased mortality from other causes, with little difference overall. This is almost exactly the pattern observed in the only study to report direct observations of vegan mortality (UK, USA and Germany 1999). The table shows the relative risk of death per year. Regular meat eaters (eating meat once or more per week) are taken as the reference point. The results are highly consistent with mortality expectations based on reduced cholesterol and elevated homocysteine combined. Regular meat eaters Occasional meat eaters Fish eaters Vegetarians Vegans Heart disease 1.00 0.8 0.66 0.66 0.74 Other non-cancer causes 1.00 0.84 0.85 0.95 1.33 All causes 1.00 0.84 0.82 0.84 1.00 The evidence suggests that getting adequate B12 could result in vegans living about 4 years longer than meat eaters and 2 years longer than lacto-vegetarians. It should be noted that the " regular " meat-eaters in this study ate less meat than the general population in their countries and none of the groups included many smokers. Mortality in the general population is about 1.6 in terms of the above table, so although the vegans studied lived no longer than the other groups they were already living about five years longer than their more typical compatriots. Homocysteine rises significantly long before B12 stores drop to the level associated with classical B12 deficiency. Current UK Government recommendations of 1.5 µg per day are based on reliably preventing classical deficiency and are more than adequate for that purpose. However, they do not take into account B12 requirements to minimise homocysteine. At least 3 µg per day are required to achieve this by maintaining blood B12 levels at 300 pmol/l or more. If the main source of B12 is a supplement taken daily, at least 10 µg should be taken. If it is taken weekly, 2000 µg is required. The variation in recommended weekly intake is because absorption of B12 is best at small doses below 0.5 µg, where about 70% of available B12 is absorbed. As the dose approaches 10 µg, the amount absorbed flattens off at about 1.5 µg and only about 0.5% of further increases in dose are absorbed. The absorbed amount from 2000 µg is therefore little more than 10 µg, which is just enough for one week, while the same absorbed amount can be obtained from 3 µg per day spread across several meals or from a daily supplement of 10 µg. A single weekly supplement of 2000 µg has the advantage that absorption does not rely on intrinsic factor in the small intestine, which is required for efficient absorption of small amounts of B12 and is occasionally absent, particularly in the elderly. All forms of fortified foods and supplements avoid the more common B12 absorption problem in the elderly, namely inability (usually due to declining stomach acidity) to separate the B12 in meat from the proteins to which it is bound. B12 supplements should be chewed to ensure reliable absorption. From conception to death, elevated homocysteine casts its shadow, but the risk can be straightforwardly minimised by ensuring an adequate intake of vitamin B12 from fortified foods or supplements and consuming a varied plant-based diet with plenty of fruit and vegetables. This should allow the full potential of the vegan diet to shine through, giving vegans a clear lead over other dietary groups. References Germany 2002: Abstract 18, Loma Linda Conference on Vegetarian Nutrition, Cobalamin and homocysteine status of vegans - results of the German Vegan Study, Jochen Koschizke Italy 2002: Annals of Nutrition and Metabolism, 2002; 46: 73-79, Effect of vegetarian diet on homocysteine levels, L Bissoli et al. Germany 2001: Clinical Chemistry, 2001; 47: 1094-1101, Total homocysteine, Vitamin B12, and total antioxidant status in vegetarians, Wolfgang Herrmann et al. Taiwan 2001: Journal of Nutrition, 2001; 132: 152-158, Plasma homocysteine levels in Taiwanese vegetarians are higher than those of omnivores, Chien-Jung Hung et al. Czechoslovakia 2000: Annals of Nutrition and Metabolism, 2000; 44: 135-138, Homocysteine levels in vegetarians versus omnivores, M. Krajcovicova-Kudlackova et al. Australia 1999: European Journal of Clinical Nutrition, 1999; 53: 895-899, The effect of diet on plasma homocysteine concentrations in healthy male subjects, NJ Mann et al. Chile 1999: Thrombosis and Haemostasis, 1999; 81: 913-917, Vegetarians and cardiovascular risk factors: hemostasis, inflammatory markers and plasma homocysteine, Diego Mezzano et al. (plus reduction of homocysteine by B12 supplementation) Thrombosis Research, 2000; 100: 153-160, Cardiovascular risk factors in vegetarians: normalisation of hyperhomocysteinemia with vitamin B12 and reduction of platelet aggregation with n-3 fatty acids, Diego Mezzano et al. USA 1999: American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, 1999; 70: 586S-593S, Dietary intake and biochemical, hematologic, and immune status of vegans compared with nonvegetarians, Ella H Haddad et al. UK, USA and Germany 1999: American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, 1999; 70: 516S-524S, Mortality in vegetarians and nonvegetarians: detailed findings from a collaborative analysis of 5 prospective studies, Timothy J Key et al. - " *mona " <ahnochirah Friday, February 02, 2007 6:44 PM Re: oil? > So how do you guys feel about the B12 debate? Are you concerned at > all? I'm not really concerned but the talk of the importance of B12 > has my attention and I'm looking into it deeper. > > *mona > > , peter VV <swpgh01 wrote: > > > > Me neither, I did start to take the vegan societys suppliment last > winter, but didnt bother after one or two.......... > > > > The Valley Vegan................. > > > > fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote: > > i don't do supplements either > > i was about the only person in this group that didn't........ > > > > > > >yarrow > > >Feb 1, 2007 5:51 PM > > > > > > Re: oil? > > > > > >anouk wrote: > > >>are your getting the beneficial oils through your food? > > >>like the omega threes? > > > > > >Yes, I get them from my food -- nuts, especially, have an > abundance > > >of good oils, and of course grains and legumes -- and also I add > flax > > >meal to my morning oatmeal. I got the idea of adding flax from > > >Michael Greger MD > > >(http://www.DrGreger.org), who gave a persuasive talk about the > > >necessity of adding omega-3 from flax, as well as vitamin b-12, > to a > > >vegan diet. (Hmm, maybe not so persuasive, since I still haven't > been > > >able to bring myself to take b-12 daily. I just don't like to > take > > >pills. I used to tell myself b-12 was added to many things I eat, > > >such as rice milk or emergen-c or nutritional yeast, but I don't > > >think I've eaten anything with added b-12 in it this week.) > > > > > > > > >To send an email to - > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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