who of you are vegan ?

May 16, 2007

Dear Peter , First I would Like to thank you for allowing me to participate in your group .. I thought I was joining a Vegan group and what I found was many people who are hypocritical .. They are vegan except when it comes to what pleases them , benefits them or suits them .. One thinks it is OK to raise sheep ,train horses, and eat honey , Another thinks it is OK to only eat Vegan but use animal products in their everyday life .. products that include animal ingredients or are tested on animals but have called themselves a Vegan and wish to continue to do so .. Yet then others say labels don't matter ....yeah yeah " Dietary Vegan" another great made up term , yet still others wish to keep their treasured furs and last those of you who still continue to use and wear leather .. Vegans do not use or wear leather .. old or new .. that is part of being vegan .. " giving " up those things as leather , wool, silk .. that you

still like , want or find useful is no different then no longer eating meat .. perhaps a neighbor leaving town , can not take some steaks, ground beef etc.. so he gives it to you .. well I guess under some of the reasoning I have heard it would be acceptable to Eat it .. not waste it .. and it was already dead .. You can give all the reasons you want to rationalize what you do , you can make excuses for what you eat or wear ..anyone can ...it is easy .. but it is not Vegan .. Vegan is not always the easy or convenient road .. we make sacrifices everyday .. where does it say Vegans can wear leather as Long as they had it before ? .. this is why I say I am too radical for your group , As You can all see ..I am .. Many seem to do whatever suits them but want to be called Vegan..why ? Why don't you just say vegetarian ? Then you would be correct , No problem .. You can wear leather , eat honey , use products tested on animals etc .. I know this

sounds mean ..as someone wrote me that they were offended by my using the word " mixed couple" referring to a omnivore and herbivore .. Oh Please .. Do you think I made that term up ? It is used in any articles exactly the way I said it .. It is not an offensive term .. it wasn't said with Malice .. and if you tried reading the questions I asked in the tone I wrote them .. which was not hateful or with anger ..read them as if you were talking to a friend .. that is the "Tone" in which I wrote them ..this one I am rather upset, .. so yes My tone is upset , but the other questions or comments I wrote ... I was not upset or angry or meant offense in the least .. Some of you chose to read them as if the writer (me) was angry .. Because that is how you perceived them to be .. I have listened here to talk from some people whom I would not even consider Vegan at all .. so call yourselves whatever you wish .... tell me how out of line I am .. feel better

that the Radical vegan has left you .. I said in my life I have always felt a closeness to people who are Vegan or Vegetarian because Being one I understand that it can be hard in everyday life, relationships ,and it takes strength of conviction as well as ridicule and sacrifice .. I have not felt closeness to this group .. so live and learn I guess .. I will not bother or offend anyone here again .. so last we are all different , all individuals , and leave it as we agree we disagree .. so be well all ..bye Connie

Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who knows. Answers - Check it out.

May 16, 2007

I'm on a forum where everyone is Vegan or seriously near (i.e. Omni to Vegan or Vegetarian to Vegan). You have to do an intro before you're granted full access to the forums. We've had this " Am I Vegan? " question come up several times. Everyone (that I recall) agreed that it's OK if you still have/use leather, wool, etc. as you transition. Or if you have cosmetics, cleaning products, etc. They all understand that not everyone can afford to replace everything from the gate and many of them were in the same position. You (or others) may have been able to replace everything from the gate, but not all of us can afford to do so. NOW, if you're talking about someone who has been Vegan for 20 years yes that's a different story. But if it's someone where it's been a year or so, they definitely do deserve some slack. I'm definitely in that position, almost a year and items I still need to find Vegan forms of. If someone doesn't think I'm Vegan because of what I have that has animal ingredients, then so be it. I have Bibles that have leather covers that I still use and have. Maybe one day I'll replace them, but they have highlights, notes, etc. that I would have to go through page by page and mark into a new Bible. Maybe one day I'll have time to do that, but as of now, I don't. And I would have to do this with 2 different Bibles as I have my KJV that I use for my devotions (I have an Amplified that I also use for my devotions but it's hard cover. And the KJV is a Greek/Hebrew Study Bible) and my KJV/Amplified combined that I use for church. My hair relaxer, shampoo/conditioner and hair grease probably has animal derived ingredients (I haven't read the bottles). Yes I can use Vegan shampoo/conditioner, but when I relax my hair, I have to use a neutralizing shampoo/conditioner so my hair doesn't fall out! I have a pair of Tae Bo shoes that because of my Tae Bo addiction I won't get rid of (even if I didn't have an addiction, I probably wouldn't). On 5/15/07, connie bell <caromiotk wrote:

Dear Peter , First I would Like to thank you for allowing me to participate in your group .. I thought I was joining a Vegan group and what I found was many people who are hypocritical .. They are vegan except when it comes to what pleases them , benefits them or suits them .. One thinks it is OK to raise sheep ,train horses, and eat honey , Another thinks it is OK to only eat Vegan but use animal products in their everyday life .. products that include animal ingredients or are tested on animals but have called themselves a Vegan and wish to continue to do so .. Yet then others say labels don't matter ....yeah yeah " Dietary Vegan " another great made up term , yet still others wish to keep their treasured furs and last those of you who still continue to use and wear leather .. Vegans do not use or wear leather .. old or new .. that is part of being vegan .. " giving " up those things as leather , wool, silk .. that you

still like , want or find useful is no different then no longer eating meat .. perhaps a neighbor leaving town , can not take some steaks, ground beef etc.. so he gives it to you .. well I guess under some of the reasoning I have heard it would be acceptable to Eat it .. not waste it .. and it was already dead .. You can give all the reasons you want to rationalize what you do , you can make excuses for what you eat or wear ..anyone can ...it is easy .. but it is not Vegan .. Vegan is not always the easy or convenient road .. we make sacrifices everyday .. where does it say Vegans can wear leather as Long as they had it before ? .. this is why I say I am too radical for your group , As You can all see ..I am .. Many seem to do whatever suits them but want to be called Vegan..why ? Why don't you just say vegetarian ? Then you would be correct , No problem .. You can wear leather , eat honey , use products tested on animals etc .. I know this

sounds mean ..as someone wrote me that they were offended by my using the word " mixed couple " referring to a omnivore and herbivore .. Oh Please .. Do you think I made that term up ? It is used in any articles exactly the way I said it .. It is not an offensive term .. it wasn't said with Malice .. and if you tried reading the questions I asked in the tone I wrote them .. which was not hateful or with anger ..read them as if you were talking to a friend .. that is the " Tone " in which I wrote them ..this one I am rather upset, .. so yes My tone is upset , but the other questions or comments I wrote ... I was not upset or angry or meant offense in the least .. Some of you chose to read them as if the writer (me) was angry .. Because that is how you perceived them to be .. I have listened here to talk from some people whom I would not even consider Vegan at all .. so call yourselves whatever you wish .... tell me how out of line I am .. feel better

that the Radical vegan has left you .. I said in my life I have always felt a closeness to people who are Vegan or Vegetarian because Being one I understand that it can be hard in everyday life, relationships ,and it takes strength of conviction as well as ridicule and sacrifice .. I have not felt closeness to this group .. so live and learn I guess .. I will not bother or offend anyone here again .. so last we are all different , all individuals , and leave it as we agree we disagree .. so be well all ..bye Connie

Be a better Globetrotter.

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-- Gymbo in Texas " We're going to go fast for Bobby! " RIP Bobby Hamilton 5/29/57-1/7/07 " Cue the Duck! " RIP BP 7/12/41-1/16/07

www.myspace.com/nascartaebogymmieFREE THE DOG, LELAND AND YOUNGBLOOD!

May 16, 2007

I think I made a mistake and directed my comments at the wrong

person, for which I am sorry :-(

I have written to Connie to explain.

That'll teach me to answer emails when I am so tired.

Jo

, connie bell <caromiotk wrote:

>

> Dear Peter , First I would Like to thank you for allowing me to

participate in your group .. I thought I was joining a Vegan group

and what I found was many people who are hypocritical .. They are

vegan except when it comes to what pleases them , benefits them or

suits them .. One thinks it is OK to raise sheep ,train horses, and

eat honey , Another thinks it is OK to only eat Vegan but use animal

products in their everyday life .. products that include animal

ingredients or are tested on animals but have called themselves a

Vegan and wish to continue to do so .. Yet then others say labels

don't matter ....yeah yeah " Dietary Vegan " another great made up

term , yet still others wish to keep their treasured furs and last

those of you who still continue to use and wear leather .. Vegans do

not use or wear leather .. old or new .. that is part of being

vegan .. " giving " up those things as leather , wool, silk .. that

you still like , want or find useful is no different

> then no longer eating meat .. perhaps a neighbor leaving town ,

can not take some steaks, ground beef etc.. so he gives it to you ..

well I guess under some of the reasoning I have heard it would be

acceptable to Eat it .. not waste it .. and it was already dead ..

You can give all the reasons you want to rationalize what you do ,

you can make excuses for what you eat or wear ..anyone can ...it is

easy .. but it is not Vegan .. Vegan is not always the easy or

convenient road .. we make sacrifices everyday .. where does it say

Vegans can wear leather as Long as they had it before ? .. this is

why I say I am too radical for your group , As You can all see ..I

am .. Many seem to do whatever suits them but want to be called

Vegan..why ? Why don't you just say vegetarian ? Then you would be

correct , No problem .. You can wear leather , eat honey , use

products tested on animals etc .. I know this sounds mean ..as

someone wrote me that they were offended by my using the word

> " mixed couple " referring to a omnivore and herbivore .. Oh

Please .. Do you think I made that term up ? It is used in any

articles exactly the way I said it .. It is not an offensive term ..

it wasn't said with Malice .. and if you tried reading the questions

I asked in the tone I wrote them .. which was not hateful or with

anger ..read them as if you were talking to a friend .. that is

the " Tone " in which I wrote them ..this one I am rather upset, .. so

yes My tone is upset , but the other questions or comments I

wrote ... I was not upset or angry or meant offense in the least ..

Some of you chose to read them as if the writer (me) was angry ..

Because that is how you perceived them to be .. I have listened here

to talk from some people whom I would not even consider Vegan at

all .. so call yourselves whatever you wish .... tell me how out of

line I am .. feel better that the Radical vegan has left you .. I

said in my life I have always felt a closeness to people who

> are Vegan or Vegetarian because Being one I understand that it can

be hard in everyday life, relationships ,and it takes strength of

conviction as well as ridicule and sacrifice .. I have not felt

closeness to this group .. so live and learn I guess .. I will not

bother or offend anyone here again .. so last we are all different ,

all individuals , and leave it as we agree we disagree .. so be

well all ..bye Connie

>

> Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone

who knows.

> Answers - Check it out.

>

May 16, 2007

Hi

I think that most vegans use up/wear out their non-vegan items before

buying vegan ones - to me it makes sense.

Jo

, Mikeygirl9915 <mikeygrl9915

wrote:

>

> I'm on a forum where everyone is Vegan or seriously near (i.e. Omni

to Vegan

> or Vegetarian to Vegan). You have to do an intro before you're

granted full

> access to the forums. We've had this " Am I Vegan? " question come up

several

> times. Everyone (that I recall) agreed that it's OK if you still

have/use

> leather, wool, etc. as you transition. Or if you have cosmetics,

cleaning

> products, etc. They all understand that not everyone can afford to

replace

> everything from the gate and many of them were in the same position.

>

> You (or others) may have been able to replace everything from the

gate, but

> not all of us can afford to do so. NOW, if you're talking about

someone who

> has been Vegan for 20 years yes that's a different story. But if

it's

> someone where it's been a year or so, they definitely do deserve

some slack.

> I'm definitely in that position, almost a year and items I still

need to

> find Vegan forms of.

>

> If someone doesn't think I'm Vegan because of what I have that has

animal

> ingredients, then so be it. I have Bibles that have leather covers

that I

> still use and have. Maybe one day I'll replace them, but they have

> highlights, notes, etc. that I would have to go through page by

page and

> mark into a new Bible. Maybe one day I'll have time to do that, but

as of

> now, I don't. And I would have to do this with 2 different Bibles

as I have

> my KJV that I use for my devotions (I have an Amplified that I also

use for

> my devotions but it's hard cover. And the KJV is a Greek/Hebrew

Study Bible)

> and my KJV/Amplified combined that I use for church. My hair

relaxer,

> shampoo/conditioner and hair grease probably has animal derived

ingredients

> (I haven't read the bottles). Yes I can use Vegan

shampoo/conditioner, but

> when I relax my hair, I have to use a neutralizing

shampoo/conditioner so my

> hair doesn't fall out! I have a pair of Tae Bo shoes that because

of my Tae

> Bo addiction I won't get rid of (even if I didn't have an

addiction, I

> probably wouldn't).

>

> On 5/15/07, connie bell <caromiotk wrote:

> >

> > Dear Peter , First I would Like to thank you for allowing me to

> > participate in your group .. I thought I was joining a Vegan

group and what

> > I found was many people who are hypocritical .. They are vegan

except when

> > it comes to what pleases them , benefits them or suits them ..

One thinks it

> > is OK to raise sheep ,train horses, and eat honey , Another

thinks it is OK

> > to only eat Vegan but use animal products in their everyday

life .. products

> > that include animal ingredients or are tested on animals but have

called

> > themselves a Vegan and wish to continue to do so .. Yet then

others say

> > labels don't matter ....yeah yeah " Dietary Vegan " another great

made up

> > term , yet still others wish to keep their treasured furs and

last those of

> > you who still continue to use and wear leather .. Vegans do not

use or wear

> > leather .. old or new .. that is part of being vegan .. "

giving " up those

> > things as leather , wool, silk .. that you still like , want or

find useful

> > is no different then no longer eating meat .. perhaps a neighbor

leaving

> > town , can not take some steaks, ground beef etc.. so he gives it

to you ..

> > well I guess under some of the reasoning I have heard it would be

> > acceptable to Eat it .. not waste it .. and it was already

dead .. You can

> > give all the reasons you want to rationalize what you do , you

can make

> > excuses for what you eat or wear ..anyone can ...it is easy ..

but it is

> > not Vegan .. Vegan is not always the easy or convenient road ..

we make

> > sacrifices everyday .. where does it say Vegans can wear leather

as Long as

> > they had it before ? .. this is why I say I am too radical for

your group ,

> > As You can all see ..I am .. Many seem to do whatever suits them

but want to

> > be called Vegan..why ? Why don't you just say vegetarian ? Then

you would be

> > correct , No problem .. You can wear leather , eat honey , use

products

> > tested on animals etc .. I know this sounds mean ..as someone

wrote me that

> > they were offended by my using the word " mixed couple " referring

to a

> > omnivore and herbivore .. Oh Please .. Do you think I made that

term up ? It

> > is used in any articles exactly the way I said it .. It is not an

offensive

> > term .. it wasn't said with Malice .. and if you tried reading

the questions

> > I asked in the tone I wrote them .. which was not hateful or with

anger

> > ..read them as if you were talking to a friend .. that is

the " Tone " in

> > which I wrote them ..this one I am rather upset, .. so yes My

tone is upset

> > , but the other questions or comments I wrote ... I was not upset

or angry

> > or meant offense in the least .. Some of you chose to read them

as if the

> > writer (me) was angry .. Because that is how you perceived them

to be .. I

> > have listened here to talk from some people whom I would not even

consider

> > Vegan at all .. so call yourselves whatever you wish .... tell me

how out of

> > line I am .. feel better that the Radical vegan has left you .. I

said in my

> > life I have always felt a closeness to people who are Vegan or

Vegetarian

> > because Being one I understand that it can be hard in everyday

life,

> > relationships ,and it takes strength of conviction as well as

ridicule and

> > sacrifice .. I have not felt closeness to this group .. so live

and learn I

> > guess .. I will not bother or offend anyone here again .. so last

we are all

> > different , all individuals , and leave it as we agree we

disagree .. so

> > be well all ..bye Connie

> >

> > ------------------------------

> > Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers

> >

<http://us.rd./evt=48254/*http://answers./dir/_ylc=X

3oDMTI5MGx2aThyBF9TAzIxMTU1MDAzNTIEX3MDMzk2NTQ1MTAzBHNlYwNCQUJwaWxsYXJ

fTklfMzYwBHNsawNQcm9kdWN0X3F1ZXN0aW9uX3BhZ2U-?

link=list & sid=396545469>from

> > someone who knows.

> > Answers - Check it out.

> >

>

> --

> Gymbo in Texas

>

> " We're going to go fast for Bobby! " RIP Bobby Hamilton 5/29/57-

1/7/07

>

> " Cue the Duck! " RIP BP 7/12/41-1/16/07

>

> www.myspace.com/nascartaebogymmie

>

> FREE THE DOG, LELAND AND YOUNGBLOOD!

>

May 16, 2007

On second thoughts - I don't think I made a mistake, but I am

confused now!!!

Jo

, " heartwerk " <jo.heartwork

wrote:

>

> I think I made a mistake and directed my comments at the wrong

> person, for which I am sorry :-(

>

> I have written to Connie to explain.

>

> That'll teach me to answer emails when I am so tired.

>

> Jo

>

> , connie bell <caromiotk@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Peter , First I would Like to thank you for allowing me to

> participate in your group .. I thought I was joining a Vegan group

> and what I found was many people who are hypocritical .. They are

> vegan except when it comes to what pleases them , benefits them or

> suits them .. One thinks it is OK to raise sheep ,train horses, and

> eat honey , Another thinks it is OK to only eat Vegan but use

animal

> products in their everyday life .. products that include animal

> ingredients or are tested on animals but have called themselves a

> Vegan and wish to continue to do so .. Yet then others say labels

> don't matter ....yeah yeah " Dietary Vegan " another great made up

> term , yet still others wish to keep their treasured furs and last

> those of you who still continue to use and wear leather .. Vegans

do

> not use or wear leather .. old or new .. that is part of being

> vegan .. " giving " up those things as leather , wool, silk .. that

> you still like , want or find useful is no different

> > then no longer eating meat .. perhaps a neighbor leaving town ,

> can not take some steaks, ground beef etc.. so he gives it to

you ..

> well I guess under some of the reasoning I have heard it would be

> acceptable to Eat it .. not waste it .. and it was already dead ..

> You can give all the reasons you want to rationalize what you do ,

> you can make excuses for what you eat or wear ..anyone can ...it is

> easy .. but it is not Vegan .. Vegan is not always the easy or

> convenient road .. we make sacrifices everyday .. where does it say

> Vegans can wear leather as Long as they had it before ? .. this is

> why I say I am too radical for your group , As You can all see ..I

> am .. Many seem to do whatever suits them but want to be called

> Vegan..why ? Why don't you just say vegetarian ? Then you would be

> correct , No problem .. You can wear leather , eat honey , use

> products tested on animals etc .. I know this sounds mean ..as

> someone wrote me that they were offended by my using the word

> > " mixed couple " referring to a omnivore and herbivore .. Oh

> Please .. Do you think I made that term up ? It is used in any

> articles exactly the way I said it .. It is not an offensive

term ..

> it wasn't said with Malice .. and if you tried reading the

questions

> I asked in the tone I wrote them .. which was not hateful or with

> anger ..read them as if you were talking to a friend .. that is

> the " Tone " in which I wrote them ..this one I am rather upset, ..

so

> yes My tone is upset , but the other questions or comments I

> wrote ... I was not upset or angry or meant offense in the least ..

> Some of you chose to read them as if the writer (me) was angry ..

> Because that is how you perceived them to be .. I have listened

here

> to talk from some people whom I would not even consider Vegan at

> all .. so call yourselves whatever you wish .... tell me how out of

> line I am .. feel better that the Radical vegan has left you .. I

> said in my life I have always felt a closeness to people who

> > are Vegan or Vegetarian because Being one I understand that it

can

> be hard in everyday life, relationships ,and it takes strength of

> conviction as well as ridicule and sacrifice .. I have not felt

> closeness to this group .. so live and learn I guess .. I will not

> bother or offend anyone here again .. so last we are all

different ,

> all individuals , and leave it as we agree we disagree .. so be

> well all ..bye Connie

> >

> > Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone

> who knows.

> > Answers - Check it out.

> >

>

May 16, 2007

Hi ConnieNot sure if you're still here.I must admit to being a bit confused - we all have differing views, that what makes the world an interesting place. However, I must admit that I'm thoroughly confused by your comments, as our home page makes it quite clear that we have a variety of views, and that " vegetarians are also welcome " , so not quite sure why you'd expect to find all 5th level vegans who don't eat anything that casts a shadow!

Personally, the people that I tend not to get on with so well are the self appointed vegan police, so if that's how you think of yourself (as your below message implies), then it's probably true that we wouldn't get on very well together on this list.

I hope you find what you're looking for.PeterOn 16/05/07, connie bell <caromiotk

> wrote:

Dear Peter , First I would Like to thank you for allowing me to participate in your group .. I thought I was joining a Vegan group and what I found was many people who are hypocritical .. They are vegan except when it comes to what pleases them , benefits them or suits them .. One thinks it is OK to raise sheep ,train horses, and eat honey , Another thinks it is OK to only eat Vegan but use animal products in their everyday life .. products that include animal ingredients or are tested on animals but have called themselves a Vegan and wish to continue to do so .. Yet then others say labels don't matter ....yeah yeah " Dietary Vegan " another great made up term , yet still others wish to keep their treasured furs and last those of you who still continue to use and wear leather .. Vegans do not use or wear leather .. old or new .. that is part of being vegan .. " giving " up those things as leather , wool, silk .. that you

still like , want or find useful is no different then no longer eating meat .. perhaps a neighbor leaving town , can not take some steaks, ground beef etc.. so he gives it to you .. well I guess under some of the reasoning I have heard it would be acceptable to Eat it .. not waste it .. and it was already dead .. You can give all the reasons you want to rationalize what you do , you can make excuses for what you eat or wear ..anyone can ...it is easy .. but it is not Vegan .. Vegan is not always the easy or convenient road .. we make sacrifices everyday .. where does it say Vegans can wear leather as Long as they had it before ? .. this is why I say I am too radical for your group , As You can all see ..I am .. Many seem to do whatever suits them but want to be called Vegan..why ? Why don't you just say vegetarian ? Then you would be correct , No problem .. You can wear leather , eat honey , use products tested on animals etc .. I know this

sounds mean ..as someone wrote me that they were offended by my using the word " mixed couple " referring to a omnivore and herbivore .. Oh Please .. Do you think I made that term up ? It is used in any articles exactly the way I said it .. It is not an offensive term .. it wasn't said with Malice .. and if you tried reading the questions I asked in the tone I wrote them .. which was not hateful or with anger ..read them as if you were talking to a friend .. that is the " Tone " in which I wrote them ..this one I am rather upset, .. so yes My tone is upset , but the other questions or comments I wrote ... I was not upset or angry or meant offense in the least .. Some of you chose to read them as if the writer (me) was angry .. Because that is how you perceived them to be .. I have listened here to talk from some people whom I would not even consider Vegan at all .. so call yourselves whatever you wish .... tell me how out of line I am .. feel better

that the Radical vegan has left you .. I said in my life I have always felt a closeness to people who are Vegan or Vegetarian because Being one I understand that it can be hard in everyday life, relationships ,and it takes strength of conviction as well as ridicule and sacrifice .. I have not felt closeness to this group .. so live and learn I guess .. I will not bother or offend anyone here again .. so last we are all different , all individuals , and leave it as we agree we disagree .. so be well all ..bye Connie

Be a better Globetrotter.

Get better travel answers from someone who knows. Answers - Check it out.

May 16, 2007

Apparently it wasn't me who caused this - phew!