more on definitions

[Guest guest]

A few weeks ago I quit eating meat and animal products, I quit my job

which involved selling these, and I resolved not to buy anymore

clothing made from animal products. I'm not looking for applause.

Presumably, we've all done this, more or less.

 

It was a joyous event. I loved what I had done and believed in it. My

quality of life improved almost immediately. I wanted to participate in

conversations on the issues that concern others of a like mind.

Therefore, amongst other things, I joined this group. I have found the

perspectives of most who have responded to my questions interesting and

well-considered.

 

As a new vegan, for those who would accept that I am one at all, I am

trying to determine how far I should endeavor to go with this and what

are the principles that will guide me along the way. This early

exploration, unfortunately, has been stalled by what seems to be a

factious and separatist elitism, held by the minority to be sure, to

which I am not sympathetic in the least, wherever it manisfests

(religion, politics, etc.). Those who would represent this view appear

to be guided by absolutism in their refusal to use anything directly or

indirectly produced by animals or 'by-products.' Of course, I

appreciate this conviction as it is generally applied. It is a

beautiful ideal and should be protected. We do, however, live in a

culture that sees animals (and everything else) as commodities to be

used. Therefore, as of yet, the full implications of this ideal cannot

be realized, except by those who would remove themselves more or less

completely from the culture. Perhaps, upon final analysis, this is

warranted. Those who are basing their arugments upon what they sense

is 'true' veganism, however, have not taken this step. Presumably they

eat vegetables fertilized by manure; they use a computer, which was

shipped by a truck made of rubber and steel; and the list, as we all

know, could go on. Hence, the line that is drawn by these 'radicals'

appears arbitrary in the sense that it espouses a philosophy, but does

not follow through to the conclusions suggested by it presuppositions.

Judgment in these cases are dependent upon the 'good sense' of those,

who would decide for the rest of us, without justification, except that

they imagine themselves the guardians and administrators of the

term 'Vegan.' Therefore, it seems also juvenile, having at its root an

interest in obtaining and keeping a sort of meaningless power for

themselves and those very few like them.

 

Veganism is a beautiful expression of and vehicle for becoming closer

to God, however one understands the term 'God.' Veganism, however, is

not God. Conversation with the vegan-police has made something ugly for

me that was one of the most beautiful things that ever happened to me.

They have not persuaded me to go deeper with veganism, and give up some

of the things they were suggesting, though at the beginning I was

highly motivated to do so. Instead, they have persuaded me to avoid

becoming like them at all costs. I think that the only way for me to

salvage this beauty is to simply avoid further conversation with

dogmatists, and concentrate my attention to the majority of you, whose

insights I cherish. I refuse to allow the power-brokers, who are trying

to institutionalize their version of veganism, to ruin the entire

enterprise for me. If they think that I persecute them for being too

radical, it is a matter of supreme indifference to me. The self-

proclaimed orthodox always try to set up their churches with themselves

as the administrators of membership. Screw them. I'd rather be a

heretic.

 

LVX,

 

Corry

[Guest guest]

Hi Corry

 

The discussions over the last few days have been unusually uncomfortable for

most of us. We have had two extremes, one saying that most people are not

good enough, and one saying that veganism should include using animals for

their wool etc.

 

I'm sure things will calm down soon. There is a description of veganism on

The Vegan Society's website. It was the founder of the Vegan Society who

coined the word 'vegan', so presumably that description would be correct,

and as Peter pointed out there is also a title of dietary vegan.

 

I'm glad that your change to veganism has been joyous, and I'm sure it will

continue to be so.

 

Jo

-

" Corry " <apocalypse888

 

Wednesday, May 16, 2007 4:34 PM

more on definitions

 

 

> A few weeks ago I quit eating meat and animal products, I quit my job

> which involved selling these, and I resolved not to buy anymore

> clothing made from animal products. I'm not looking for applause.

> Presumably, we've all done this, more or less.

>

> It was a joyous event. I loved what I had done and believed in it. My

> quality of life improved almost immediately. I wanted to participate in

> conversations on the issues that concern others of a like mind.

> Therefore, amongst other things, I joined this group. I have found the

> perspectives of most who have responded to my questions interesting and

> well-considered.

>

> As a new vegan, for those who would accept that I am one at all, I am

> trying to determine how far I should endeavor to go with this and what

> are the principles that will guide me along the way. This early

> exploration, unfortunately, has been stalled by what seems to be a

> factious and separatist elitism, held by the minority to be sure, to

> which I am not sympathetic in the least, wherever it manisfests

> (religion, politics, etc.). Those who would represent this view appear

> to be guided by absolutism in their refusal to use anything directly or

> indirectly produced by animals or 'by-products.' Of course, I

> appreciate this conviction as it is generally applied. It is a

> beautiful ideal and should be protected. We do, however, live in a

> culture that sees animals (and everything else) as commodities to be

> used. Therefore, as of yet, the full implications of this ideal cannot

> be realized, except by those who would remove themselves more or less

> completely from the culture. Perhaps, upon final analysis, this is

> warranted. Those who are basing their arugments upon what they sense

> is 'true' veganism, however, have not taken this step. Presumably they

> eat vegetables fertilized by manure; they use a computer, which was

> shipped by a truck made of rubber and steel; and the list, as we all

> know, could go on. Hence, the line that is drawn by these 'radicals'

> appears arbitrary in the sense that it espouses a philosophy, but does

> not follow through to the conclusions suggested by it presuppositions.

> Judgment in these cases are dependent upon the 'good sense' of those,

> who would decide for the rest of us, without justification, except that

> they imagine themselves the guardians and administrators of the

> term 'Vegan.' Therefore, it seems also juvenile, having at its root an

> interest in obtaining and keeping a sort of meaningless power for

> themselves and those very few like them.

>

> Veganism is a beautiful expression of and vehicle for becoming closer

> to God, however one understands the term 'God.' Veganism, however, is

> not God. Conversation with the vegan-police has made something ugly for

> me that was one of the most beautiful things that ever happened to me.

> They have not persuaded me to go deeper with veganism, and give up some

> of the things they were suggesting, though at the beginning I was

> highly motivated to do so. Instead, they have persuaded me to avoid

> becoming like them at all costs. I think that the only way for me to

> salvage this beauty is to simply avoid further conversation with

> dogmatists, and concentrate my attention to the majority of you, whose

> insights I cherish. I refuse to allow the power-brokers, who are trying

> to institutionalize their version of veganism, to ruin the entire

> enterprise for me. If they think that I persecute them for being too

> radical, it is a matter of supreme indifference to me. The self-

> proclaimed orthodox always try to set up their churches with themselves

> as the administrators of membership. Screw them. I'd rather be a

> heretic.

>

> LVX,

>

> Corry

>

>

>

>

> To send an email to -

>

[Guest guest]

Me too. I also find fundamentalism, in any guise, repulsive.

 

And yet the overwhelmingly nonvegan culture in which I live perceives

anyone who uses the word " vegetarian " as an extremist, regardless of

whether that person is in fact a veg*n. I'm comfortable being a

heretic and nonconformist, but I do see other people struggle with

trying to go vegetarian and, in the end, being unwilling to venture

so far outside the mainstream.

 

At the same time, it looks like cognitive dissonance: the culture at

large often feels antivegan, and yet anyone who pays attention to

peer-reviewed medical studies, for instance, sees the same theme

again and again -- eat more fruits and vegetables; more fiber. I've

also seen many instances of friends and family of vegetarians (who

are not themselves veg) defending the veg*n quite skillfully, so

intellectually they know all the reasons and all the arguments, but

still they prefer to eat -- as they call it -- " normally. "

 

 

At 3:34 PM +0000 5/16/07, Corry wrote:

....

>exploration, unfortunately, has been stalled by what seems to be a

>factious and separatist elitism, held by the minority to be sure, to

>which I am not sympathetic in the least, wherever it manisfests

>(religion, politics, etc.).

.....

>Conversation with the vegan-police has made something ugly for

>me that was one of the most beautiful things that ever happened to me.

>They have not persuaded me to go deeper with veganism, and give up some

>of the things they were suggesting, though at the beginning I was

>highly motivated to do so. Instead, they have persuaded me to avoid

>becoming like them at all costs....