This is sad

[Guest guest]

This statement by Cindy Sheehan, a USA peace campaigner who is well known in that continent & whose son was killed in Iraq, was forwarded to me via a connection from the US. I find Cindy's courage and vision hugely powerful, but heartbreaking, and I am sending this in trust that we might each find some way to support her at this point on her journey, each according to our personal or collective resources and practices.I have every reason to believe it's progeny as genuine.LucyGood Riddance Attention Whoreby Cindy Sheehan I have endured a lot of smear and hatred since Casey was killed and especially since I became the so-called "Face" of the American anti- war movement. Especially since I renounced any tie I have remaining with the Democratic Party, I have been further trashed on such "liberal blogs" as the Democratic Underground. Being called an "attention whore" and being told "good riddance" are some of the more milder rebukes. I have come to some heartbreaking conclusions this Memorial Day Morning. These are not spur of the moment reflections, but things I have been meditating on for about a year now. The conclusions that I have slowly and very reluctantly come to are very heartbreaking to me. The first conclusion is that I was the darling of the so-called left as long as I limited my protests to George Bush and the Republican Party. Of course, I was slandered and libeled by the right as a "tool" of the Democratic Party. This label was to marginalize me and my message. How could a woman have an original thought, or be working outside of our "two-party" system? However, when I started to hold the Democratic Party to the same standards that I held the Republican Party, support for my cause started to erode and the "left" started labeling me with the same slurs that the right used. I guess no one paid attention to me when I said that the issue of peace and people dying for no reason is not a matter of "right or left", but "right and wrong." I am deemed a radical because I believe that partisan politics should be left to the wayside when hundreds of thousands of people are dying for a war based on lies that is supported by Democrats and Republican alike. It amazes me that people who are sharp on the issues and can zero in like a laser beam on lies, misrepresentations, and political expediency when it comes to one party refuse to recognize it in their own party. Blind party loyalty is dangerous whatever side it occurs on. People of the world look on us Americans as jokes because we allow our political leaders so much murderous latitude and if we don't find alternatives to this corrupt "two" party system our Representative Republic will die and be replaced with what we are rapidly descending into with nary a check or balance: a fascist corporate wasteland. I am demonized because I don't see party affiliation or nationality when I look at a person, I see that person's heart. If someone looks, dresses, acts, talks and votes like a Republican, then why do they deserve support just because he/she calls him/herself a Democrat? I have also reached the conclusion that if I am doing what I am doing because I am an "attention whore" then I really need to be committed. I have invested everything I have into trying to bring peace with justice to a country that wants neither. If an individual wants both, then normally he/she is not willing to do more than walk in a protest march or sit behind his/her computer criticizing others. I have spent every available cent I got from the money a "grateful" country gave me when they killed my son and every penny that I have received in speaking or book fees since then. I have sacrificed a 29 year marriage and have traveled for extended periods of time away from Casey's brother and sisters and my health has suffered and my hospital bills from last summer (when I almost died) are in collection because I have used all my energy trying to stop this country from slaughtering innocent human beings. I have been called every despicable name that small minds can think of and have had my life threatened many times. The most devastating conclusion that I reached this morning, however, was that Casey did indeed die for nothing. His precious lifeblood drained out in a country far away from his family who loves him, killed by his own country which is beholden to and run by a war machine that even controls what we think. I have tried every since he died to make his sacrifice meaningful. Casey died for a country which cares more about who will be the next American Idol than how many people will be killed in the next few months while Democrats and Republicans play politics with human lives. It is so painful to me to know that I bought into this system for so many years and Casey paid the price for that allegiance. I failed my boy and that hurts the most. I have also tried to work within a peace movement that often puts personal egos above peace and human life. This group won't work with that group; he won't attend an event if she is going to be there; and why does Cindy Sheehan get all the attention anyway? It is hard to work for peace when the very movement that is named after it has so many divisions. Our brave young men and women in Iraq have been abandoned there indefinitely by their cowardly leaders who move them around like pawns on a chessboard of destruction and the people of Iraq have been doomed to death and fates worse than death by people worried more about elections than people. However, in five, ten, or fifteen years, our troops will come limping home in another abject defeat and ten or twenty years from then, our children's children will be seeing their loved ones die for no reason, because their grandparents also bought into this corrupt system. George Bush will never be impeached because if the Democrats dig too deeply, they may unearth a few skeletons in their own graves and the system will perpetuate itself in perpetuity. I am going to take whatever I have left and go home. I am going to go home and be a mother to my surviving children and try to regain some of what I have lost. I will try to maintain and nurture some very positive relationships that I have found in the journey that I was forced into when Casey died and try to repair some of the ones that have fallen apart since I began this single-minded crusade to try and change a paradigm that is now, I am afraid, carved in immovable, unbendable and rigidly mendacious marble. Camp Casey has served its purpose. It's for sale. Anyone want to buy five beautiful acres in Crawford , Texas ? I will consider any reasonable offer. I hear George Bush will be moving out soon, too. which makes the property even more valuable. This is my resignation letter as the "face" of the American anti-war movement. This is not my "Checkers" moment, because I will never give up trying to help people in the world who are harmed by the empire of the good old US of A, but I am finished working in, or outside of this system. This system forcefully resists being helped and eats up the people who try to help it. I am getting out before it totally consumes me or anymore people that I love and the rest of my resources. Good-bye America .you are not the country that I love and I finally realized no matter how much I sacrifice, I can't make you be that country unless you want it. It's up to you now.

[Guest guest]

dems have proven time and again that they are as bankrupt as the repugs

washed my paws of them a loooooooooong time ago

 

jo May 29, 2007 11:56 AM This is sad

 

 

 

 

This statement by Cindy Sheehan, a USA peace campaigner who is well known in that continent & whose son was killed in Iraq, was forwarded to me via a connection from the US. I find Cindy's courage and vision hugely powerful, but heartbreaking, and I am sending this in trust that we might each find some way to support her at this point on her journey, each according to our personal or collective resources and practices.I have every reason to believe it's progeny as genuine.LucyGood Riddance Attention Whoreby Cindy Sheehan I have endured a lot of smear and hatred since Casey was killed and especially since I became the so-called "Face" of the American anti- war movement. Especially since I renounced any tie I have remaining with the Democratic Party, I have been further trashed on such "liberal blogs" as the Democratic Underground. Being called an "attention whore" and being told "good riddance" are some of the more milder rebukes. I have come to some heartbreaking conclusions this Memorial Day Morning. These are not spur of the moment reflections, but things I have been meditating on for about a year now. The conclusions that I have slowly and very reluctantly come to are very heartbreaking to me. The first conclusion is that I was the darling of the so-called left as long as I limited my protests to George Bush and the Republican Party. Of course, I was slandered and libeled by the right as a "tool" of the Democratic Party. This label was to marginalize me and my message. How could a woman have an original thought, or be working outside of our "two-party" system? However, when I started to hold the Democratic Party to the same standards that I held the Republican Party, support for my cause started to erode and the "left" started labeling me with the same slurs that the right used. I guess no one paid attention to me when I said that the issue of peace and people dying for no reason is not a matter of "right or left", but "right and wrong." I am deemed a radical because I believe that partisan politics should be left to the wayside when hundreds of thousands of people are dying for a war based on lies that is supported by Democrats and Republican alike. It amazes me that people who are sharp on the issues and can zero in like a laser beam on lies, misrepresentations, and political expediency when it comes to one party refuse to recognize it in their own party. Blind party loyalty is dangerous whatever side it occurs on. People of the world look on us Americans as jokes because we allow our political leaders so much murderous latitude and if we don't find alternatives to this corrupt "two" party system our Representative Republic will die and be replaced with what we are rapidly descending into with nary a check or balance: a fascist corporate wasteland. I am demonized because I don't see party affiliation or nationality when I look at a person, I see that person's heart. If someone looks, dresses, acts, talks and votes like a Republican, then why do they deserve support just because he/she calls him/herself a Democrat? I have also reached the conclusion that if I am doing what I am doing because I am an "attention whore" then I really need to be committed. I have invested everything I have into trying to bring peace with justice to a country that wants neither. If an individual wants both, then normally he/she is not willing to do more than walk in a protest march or sit behind his/her computer criticizing others. I have spent every available cent I got from the money a "grateful" country gave me when they killed my son and every penny that I have received in speaking or book fees since then. I have sacrificed a 29 year marriage and have traveled for extended periods of time away from Casey's brother and sisters and my health has suffered and my hospital bills from last summer (when I almost died) are in collection because I have used all my energy trying to stop this country from slaughtering innocent human beings. I have been called every despicable name that small minds can think of and have had my life threatened many times. The most devastating conclusion that I reached this morning, however, was that Casey did indeed die for nothing. His precious lifeblood drained out in a country far away from his family who loves him, killed by his own country which is beholden to and run by a war machine that even controls what we think. I have tried every since he died to make his sacrifice meaningful. Casey died for a country which cares more about who will be the next American Idol than how many people will be killed in the next few months while Democrats and Republicans play politics with human lives. It is so painful to me to know that I bought into this system for so many years and Casey paid the price for that allegiance. I failed my boy and that hurts the most. I have also tried to work within a peace movement that often puts personal egos above peace and human life. This group won't work with that group; he won't attend an event if she is going to be there; and why does Cindy Sheehan get all the attention anyway? It is hard to work for peace when the very movement that is named after it has so many divisions. Our brave young men and women in Iraq have been abandoned there indefinitely by their cowardly leaders who move them around like pawns on a chessboard of destruction and the people of Iraq have been doomed to death and fates worse than death by people worried more about elections than people. However, in five, ten, or fifteen years, our troops will come limping home in another abject defeat and ten or twenty years from then, our children's children will be seeing their loved ones die for no reason, because their grandparents also bought into this corrupt system. George Bush will never be impeached because if the Democrats dig too deeply, they may unearth a few skeletons in their own graves and the system will perpetuate itself in perpetuity. I am going to take whatever I have left and go home. I am going to go home and be a mother to my surviving children and try to regain some of what I have lost. I will try to maintain and nurture some very positive relationships that I have found in the journey that I was forced into when Casey died and try to repair some of the ones that have fallen apart since I began this single-minded crusade to try and change a paradigm that is now, I am afraid, carved in immovable, unbendable and rigidly mendacious marble. Camp Casey has served its purpose. It's for sale. Anyone want to buy five beautiful acres in Crawford , Texas ? I will consider any reasonable offer. I hear George Bush will be moving out soon, too. which makes the property even more valuable. This is my resignation letter as the "face" of the American anti-war movement. This is not my "Checkers" moment, because I will never give up trying to help people in the world who are harmed by the empire of the good old US of A, but I am finished working in, or outside of this system. This system forcefully resists being helped and eats up the people who try to help it. I am getting out before it totally consumes me or anymore people that I love and the rest of my resources. Good-bye America .you are not the country that I love and I finally realized no matter how much I sacrifice, I can't make you be that country unless you want it. It's up to you now.

 

 

“The Earth is not dying - she is being killed. And those who are killing her have names and addresses.†— Utah Phillips

[Guest guest]



I think that applies to just about all political parties really. It's a shame she has given up though.

 

Jo

 

 

-

fraggle

Tuesday, May 29, 2007 9:13 PM

Re: This is sad

 

dems have proven time and again that they are as bankrupt as the repugs

washed my paws of them a loooooooooong time ago

 

jo May 29, 2007 11:56 AM This is sad

 

 

 

 

This statement by Cindy Sheehan, a USA peace campaigner who is well known in that continent & whose son was killed in Iraq, was forwarded to me via a connection from the US. I find Cindy's courage and vision hugely powerful, but heartbreaking, and I am sending this in trust that we might each find some way to support her at this point on her journey, each according to our personal or collective resources and practices.I have every reason to believe it's progeny as genuine.LucyGood Riddance Attention Whoreby Cindy Sheehan I have endured a lot of smear and hatred since Casey was killed and especially since I became the so-called "Face" of the American anti- war movement. Especially since I renounced any tie I have remaining with the Democratic Party, I have been further trashed on such "liberal blogs" as the Democratic Underground. Being called an "attention whore" and being told "good riddance" are some of the more milder rebukes. I have come to some heartbreaking conclusions this Memorial Day Morning. These are not spur of the moment reflections, but things I have been meditating on for about a year now. The conclusions that I have slowly and very reluctantly come to are very heartbreaking to me. The first conclusion is that I was the darling of the so-called left as long as I limited my protests to George Bush and the Republican Party. Of course, I was slandered and libeled by the right as a "tool" of the Democratic Party. This label was to marginalize me and my message. How could a woman have an original thought, or be working outside of our "two-party" system? However, when I started to hold the Democratic Party to the same standards that I held the Republican Party, support for my cause started to erode and the "left" started labeling me with the same slurs that the right used. I guess no one paid attention to me when I said that the issue of peace and people dying for no reason is not a matter of "right or left", but "right and wrong." I am deemed a radical because I believe that partisan politics should be left to the wayside when hundreds of thousands of people are dying for a war based on lies that is supported by Democrats and Republican alike. It amazes me that people who are sharp on the issues and can zero in like a laser beam on lies, misrepresentations, and political expediency when it comes to one party refuse to recognize it in their own party. Blind party loyalty is dangerous whatever side it occurs on. People of the world look on us Americans as jokes because we allow our political leaders so much murderous latitude and if we don't find alternatives to this corrupt "two" party system our Representative Republic will die and be replaced with what we are rapidly descending into with nary a check or balance: a fascist corporate wasteland. I am demonized because I don't see party affiliation or nationality when I look at a person, I see that person's heart. If someone looks, dresses, acts, talks and votes like a Republican, then why do they deserve support just because he/she calls him/herself a Democrat? I have also reached the conclusion that if I am doing what I am doing because I am an "attention whore" then I really need to be committed. I have invested everything I have into trying to bring peace with justice to a country that wants neither. If an individual wants both, then normally he/she is not willing to do more than walk in a protest march or sit behind his/her computer criticizing others. I have spent every available cent I got from the money a "grateful" country gave me when they killed my son and every penny that I have received in speaking or book fees since then. I have sacrificed a 29 year marriage and have traveled for extended periods of time away from Casey's brother and sisters and my health has suffered and my hospital bills from last summer (when I almost died) are in collection because I have used all my energy trying to stop this country from slaughtering innocent human beings. I have been called every despicable name that small minds can think of and have had my life threatened many times. The most devastating conclusion that I reached this morning, however, was that Casey did indeed die for nothing. His precious lifeblood drained out in a country far away from his family who loves him, killed by his own country which is beholden to and run by a war machine that even controls what we think. I have tried every since he died to make his sacrifice meaningful. Casey died for a country which cares more about who will be the next American Idol than how many people will be killed in the next few months while Democrats and Republicans play politics with human lives. It is so painful to me to know that I bought into this system for so many years and Casey paid the price for that allegiance. I failed my boy and that hurts the most. I have also tried to work within a peace movement that often puts personal egos above peace and human life. This group won't work with that group; he won't attend an event if she is going to be there; and why does Cindy Sheehan get all the attention anyway? It is hard to work for peace when the very movement that is named after it has so many divisions. Our brave young men and women in Iraq have been abandoned there indefinitely by their cowardly leaders who move them around like pawns on a chessboard of destruction and the people of Iraq have been doomed to death and fates worse than death by people worried more about elections than people. However, in five, ten, or fifteen years, our troops will come limping home in another abject defeat and ten or twenty years from then, our children's children will be seeing their loved ones die for no reason, because their grandparents also bought into this corrupt system. George Bush will never be impeached because if the Democrats dig too deeply, they may unearth a few skeletons in their own graves and the system will perpetuate itself in perpetuity. I am going to take whatever I have left and go home. I am going to go home and be a mother to my surviving children and try to regain some of what I have lost. I will try to maintain and nurture some very positive relationships that I have found in the journey that I was forced into when Casey died and try to repair some of the ones that have fallen apart since I began this single-minded crusade to try and change a paradigm that is now, I am afraid, carved in immovable, unbendable and rigidly mendacious marble. Camp Casey has served its purpose. It's for sale. Anyone want to buy five beautiful acres in Crawford , Texas ? I will consider any reasonable offer. I hear George Bush will be moving out soon, too. which makes the property even more valuable. This is my resignation letter as the "face" of the American anti-war movement. This is not my "Checkers" moment, because I will never give up trying to help people in the world who are harmed by the empire of the good old US of A, but I am finished working in, or outside of this system. This system forcefully resists being helped and eats up the people who try to help it. I am getting out before it totally consumes me or anymore people that I love and the rest of my resources. Good-bye America .you are not the country that I love and I finally realized no matter how much I sacrifice, I can't make you be that country unless you want it. It's up to you now.

 

 

“The Earth is not dying - she is being killed. And those who are killing her have names and addresses.†— Utah Phillips

[Guest guest]



 

 

[[it's a shame she has given up though.]]

 

It can't be a one-person effort. The antiwar movement of the 60's/early 70's involved huge numbers of people. Rightly or wrongly, this got to be seen as "Cindy's movement." At least that's how the press portrayed it, and people bought it.

 

 

[Guest guest]



It depends...

 

>It can't be a one-person effort. The antiwar movement of the 60's/early 70's involved huge numbers of people. Rightly or wrongly, this got to be

> seen as "Cindy's movement." At least that's how the press portrayed it, and people bought it.

 

Ever heard of Rosie Parks? I know she wasn't even an intentional activist, but her story caught the media attention, and most people agree that without her the movement for equal rights for all races would have moved a heck of a lot slower! Of course, there were thousands, possibly millions of other people involved - but just about every major movement throughout history is associated with an individual who somehow captures media attention.

 

BB

Peter

[Guest guest]



 

 

Rosa Parks wasn't acting on her own. She was ALREADY a part of the Movement before the famous act that got her arrested, which was planned in advance BTW. The version of the story that depicts a tired matron who simply refused to move one day is a fairy tale for school children. I don't think knowing the truth detracts from her heroism one bit, since she knew she'd go to jail and that must have been a frightening prospect. But she was already a part of a well-organized movement, and there was NEVER any suggestion that her ego or a desire for attention was an issue.

 

 

-

metalscarab

Wednesday, May 30, 2007 3:59 AM

Re: This is sad

 

 

 It depends...

 

>It can't be a one-person effort. The antiwar movement of the 60's/early 70's involved huge numbers of people. Rightly or wrongly, this got to be

> seen as "Cindy's movement." At least that's how the press portrayed it, and people bought it.

 

Ever heard of Rosie Parks? I know she wasn't even an intentional activist, but her story caught the media attention, and most people agree that without her the movement for equal rights for all races would have moved a heck of a lot slower! Of course, there were thousands, possibly millions of other people involved - but just about every major movement throughout history is associated with an individual who somehow captures media attention.

 

BB

Peter

[Guest guest]



Please could you give me sources which suggest that she was already part of the movement and that the "action" was planned? I admit I haven't looked into it very deeply, but as a historian, when someone comes up with something which is very much against the accepted history of an event, I do like to look into it - so |'d appreciate you pointing me in the direction of the sources... I am particularly suprised by your comment, as there was nothing about this in any of the many obituaries which I read when she died about 6 months ago, and those ranged from things written by her close friends, to long time members of the political movement, and simple newspaper obits.

 

As to a desire for attention - I never suggested there was any.

 

Besides which, all of this is completely irrelevant to the point I was making, which was that every successful political movement throughout history has had a figurehead - either willing or unwilling - who has captured the attention of the media.

 

Peter

 

-

Oom Yaaqub

Wednesday, May 30, 2007 6:45 PM

Re: This is sad

 

 

Rosa Parks wasn't acting on her own. She was ALREADY a part of the Movement before the famous act that got her arrested, which was planned in advance BTW. The version of the story that depicts a tired matron who simply refused to move one day is a fairy tale for school children. I don't think knowing the truth detracts from her heroism one bit, since she knew she'd go to jail and that must have been a frightening prospect. But she was already a part of a well-organized movement, and there was NEVER any suggestion that her ego or a desire for attention was an issue.

 

 

-

metalscarab

Wednesday, May 30, 2007 3:59 AM

Re: This is sad

 

 

 It depends...

 

>It can't be a one-person effort. The antiwar movement of the 60's/early 70's involved huge numbers of people. Rightly or wrongly, this got to be

> seen as "Cindy's movement." At least that's how the press portrayed it, and people bought it.

 

Ever heard of Rosie Parks? I know she wasn't even an intentional activist, but her story caught the media attention, and most people agree that without her the movement for equal rights for all races would have moved a heck of a lot slower! Of course, there were thousands, possibly millions of other people involved - but just about every major movement throughout history is associated with an individual who somehow captures media attention.

 

BB

Peter

[Guest guest]

i would guess on how someone defines planned

from what i know.have read, and i'm no scholar of the subject (come on..ask me a question about beer!! hahahaha)

Rosa Parks was or had been a strong member of the NAACP, and was or had been elected secretary of the local chapter

there had been a case earlier that year in which another woman, i think a teenager, refused to move and got arrested, but, this didn't go anywhere. the woman was pregnant, and it was feared by organizers at the time there would be abacklash

 

when rosa refused to stand up and move to the back of the bus, according to things i've read/heard, something in her just snapped, and she said "no".

doesn't sound like it was planned..but..what do i know...

 

after she bailed out, the local head of NAACP got together with..oh crap..umm..a member of a woman's rights group (i think)..i know she was a professor

anyways....several folks got together and made plans for a boycott....made flyers and such

 

since folks were waiting for something like this to occur...its sorta arguable it was planned..but i don't see it as something that was all hatched out and waiting....

*shrug*

just me of course

 

fraggle

metalscarab May 30, 2007 3:17 PM Vegan Chat Re: This is sad

 

 

 

 Please could you give me sources which suggest that she was already part of the movement and that the "action" was planned? I admit I haven't looked into it very deeply, but as a historian, when someone comes up with something which is very much against the accepted history of an event, I do like to look into it - so |'d appreciate you pointing me in the direction of the sources... I am particularly suprised by your comment, as there was nothing about this in any of the many obituaries which I read when she died about 6 months ago, and those ranged from things written by her close friends, to long time members of the political movement, and simple newspaper obits.

 

As to a desire for attention - I never suggested there was any.

 

Besides which, all of this is completely irrelevant to the point I was making, which was that every successful political movement throughout history has had a figurehead - either willing or unwilling - who has captured the attention of the media.

 

Peter

 

-

Oom Yaaqub

Wednesday, May 30, 2007 6:45 PM

Re: This is sad

 

 

Rosa Parks wasn't acting on her own. She was ALREADY a part of the Movement before the famous act that got her arrested, which was planned in advance BTW. The version of the story that depicts a tired matron who simply refused to move one day is a fairy tale for school children. I don't think knowing the truth detracts from her heroism one bit, since she knew she'd go to jail and that must have been a frightening prospect. But she was already a part of a well-organized movement, and there was NEVER any suggestion that her ego or a desire for attention was an issue.

 

 

-

metalscarab

Wednesday, May 30, 2007 3:59 AM

Re: This is sad

 

 

 It depends...

 

>It can't be a one-person effort. The antiwar movement of the 60's/early 70's involved huge numbers of people. Rightly or wrongly, this got to be

> seen as "Cindy's movement." At least that's how the press portrayed it, and people bought it.

 

Ever heard of Rosie Parks? I know she wasn't even an intentional activist, but her story caught the media attention, and most people agree that without her the movement for equal rights for all races would have moved a heck of a lot slower! Of course, there were thousands, possibly millions of other people involved - but just about every major movement throughout history is associated with an individual who somehow captures media attention.

 

BB

Peter

 

 

 

“The Earth is not dying - she is being killed. And those who are killing her have names and addresses.†— Utah Phillips

[Guest guest]



 

 

This is what is being taught today in college level history classes. I'm not necessarily saying that there was a plan that on THAT particular date this was going to happen and that Ms. Parks would be the person to do it, but the idea of refusing to move from one's seat had been discussed in detail at NAACP meetings that she attended. It wasn't her idea, but she was the one who had the guts to carry it out. Which is more or less what you're saying.

 

Again, it does NOT take anything away from her to point out that she was acting, knowingly, with the sponsorship of a group, using their ideas, and not trying to claim all the credit. In fact that was my whole point. Rosa Parks was an infinitely more effective woman just because she was willing to put the cause ahead of her own ego and to work with other, more experienced leaders. I'm sorry, but I'm not sure you can say the same of Ms. Sheehan. In fact Sheehan has a way of acting as though she were the greatest martyr in history and that people should hang on her every word for that reason.

 

 

 

 

-

fraggle

Wednesday, May 30, 2007 3:44 PM

Re: This is sad

 

 

 

i would guess on how someone defines planned

from what i know.have read, and i'm no scholar of the subject (come on..ask me a question about beer!! hahahaha)

Rosa Parks was or had been a strong member of the NAACP, and was or had been elected secretary of the local chapter

there had been a case earlier that year in which another woman, i think a teenager, refused to move and got arrested, but, this didn't go anywhere. the woman was pregnant, and it was feared by organizers at the time there would be abacklash

 

when rosa refused to stand up and move to the back of the bus, according to things i've read/heard, something in her just snapped, and she said "no".

doesn't sound like it was planned..but..what do i know...

 

after she bailed out, the local head of NAACP got together with..oh crap..umm..a member of a woman's rights group (i think)..i know she was a professor

anyways....several folks got together and made plans for a boycott....made flyers and such

 

since folks were waiting for something like this to occur...its sorta arguable it was planned..but i don't see it as something that was all hatched out and waiting....

*shrug*

just me of course

 

fraggle

metalscarab May 30, 2007 3:17 PM Vegan Chat Re: This is sad

 

 

 

 Please could you give me sources which suggest that she was already part of the movement and that the "action" was planned? I admit I haven't looked into it very deeply, but as a historian, when someone comes up with something which is very much against the accepted history of an event, I do like to look into it - so |'d appreciate you pointing me in the direction of the sources... I am particularly suprised by your comment, as there was nothing about this in any of the many obituaries which I read when she died about 6 months ago, and those ranged from things written by her close friends, to long time members of the political movement, and simple newspaper obits.

 

As to a desire for attention - I never suggested there was any.

 

Besides which, all of this is completely irrelevant to the point I was making, which was that every successful political movement throughout history has had a figurehead - either willing or unwilling - who has captured the attention of the media.

 

Peter

 

-

Oom Yaaqub

Wednesday, May 30, 2007 6:45 PM

Re: This is sad

 

 

Rosa Parks wasn't acting on her own. She was ALREADY a part of the Movement before the famous act that got her arrested, which was planned in advance BTW. The version of the story that depicts a tired matron who simply refused to move one day is a fairy tale for school children. I don't think knowing the truth detracts from her heroism one bit, since she knew she'd go to jail and that must have been a frightening prospect. But she was already a part of a well-organized movement, and there was NEVER any suggestion that her ego or a desire for attention was an issue.

 

 

-

metalscarab

Wednesday, May 30, 2007 3:59 AM

Re: This is sad

 

 

 It depends...

 

>It can't be a one-person effort. The antiwar movement of the 60's/early 70's involved huge numbers of people. Rightly or wrongly, this got to be

> seen as "Cindy's movement." At least that's how the press portrayed it, and people bought it.

 

Ever heard of Rosie Parks? I know she wasn't even an intentional activist, but her story caught the media attention, and most people agree that without her the movement for equal rights for all races would have moved a heck of a lot slower! Of course, there were thousands, possibly millions of other people involved - but just about every major movement throughout history is associated with an individual who somehow captures media attention.

 

BB

Peter

 

“The Earth is not dying - she is being killed. And those who are killing her have names and addresses.†— Utah Phillips

[Guest guest]



 

 

[[besides which, all of this is completely irrelevant to the point I was making, which was that every successful political movement throughout history has had a figurehead - either willing or unwilling - who has captured the attention of the media.]]

 

And MY point is that not all figureheads are created equal. Some perform the job brilliantly. Others do not.

Ms. Parks not only carried herself with the dignity of a queen but she conveyed an utter refusal to be a victim. Ms. Sheehan is ALL about being a self-proclaimed victim.

 

I mean, I'm sorry about her son, but he ENLISTED. If he didn't know in advance that the army tends to send troops into stupid misguided adventures, doesn't she bear some of the blame for his ignorance? My own sons are quite familiar with my antiwar views. I would be terribly upset if one of them joined the army anyway and obviously devastated if he died, but I wouldn’t spend years afterwards trading on his reputation for the sake of my own ego.

 

[Guest guest]

I should think she now regrets not trying to stop them join the

forces. People are not always wise all their lives. I think it is

good to try to reach other soldiers and potential soldiers to make

the point that you may well be expected to die or to kill. It is

probably better than all of us 'wise' people talking amongst

ourselves and the ready converted.

 

Jo

 

, " Oom Yaaqub " <oomyaaqub wrote:

>

> [[besides which, all of this is completely irrelevant to the point

I was making, which was that every successful political movement

throughout history has had a figurehead - either willing or

unwilling - who has captured the attention of the media.]]

>

> And MY point is that not all figureheads are created equal. Some

perform the job brilliantly. Others do not.

> Ms. Parks not only carried herself with the dignity of a queen but

she conveyed an utter refusal to be a victim. Ms. Sheehan is ALL

about being a self-proclaimed victim.

>

> I mean, I'm sorry about her son, but he ENLISTED. If he didn't know

in advance that the army tends to send troops into stupid misguided

adventures, doesn't she bear some of the blame for his ignorance? My

own sons are quite familiar with my antiwar views. I would be

terribly upset if one of them joined the army anyway and obviously

devastated if he died, but I wouldn’t spend years afterwards

trading on his reputation for the sake of my own ego.

>

[Guest guest]



People make their own decisions - parents are *not* responsible for the decisions their children make. If I had a child who got killed in an unjust war, I would think it would be honouring their memory to fight against that war, and use their "name" to do so... I would not consider it "trading in on his name".

 

Peter

 

-

Oom Yaaqub

Thursday, May 31, 2007 12:23 AM

Re: This is sad

 

 

[[besides which, all of this is completely irrelevant to the point I was making, which was that every successful political movement throughout history has had a figurehead - either willing or unwilling - who has captured the attention of the media.]]

 

And MY point is that not all figureheads are created equal. Some perform the job brilliantly. Others do not.

Ms. Parks not only carried herself with the dignity of a queen but she conveyed an utter refusal to be a victim. Ms. Sheehan is ALL about being a self-proclaimed victim.

 

I mean, I'm sorry about her son, but he ENLISTED. If he didn't know in advance that the army tends to send troops into stupid misguided adventures, doesn't she bear some of the blame for his ignorance? My own sons are quite familiar with my antiwar views. I would be terribly upset if one of them joined the army anyway and obviously devastated if he died, but I wouldn’t spend years afterwards trading on his reputation for the sake of my own ego.

 

[Guest guest]



 

 

[[ If I had a child who got killed in an unjust war, I would think it would be honouring their memory to fight against that war, and use their "name" to do so... I would not consider it "trading in on his name".]]

 

I can certainly respect that. However, many people feel she is using his memory in a way that he himself would not have approved of. That disgusts a lot of people who are otherwise against the war. For that reason I believe she is hurting her own cause--and possibly helping prolong the war--just as many feel Jane Fonda hurt her own cause when she went to North Vietnam. In the ideal world, people would just look at the issues objectively and ignore personalities. But they don't.