RE:Peter/Marcy/PETA and Playboy Playmates Team up for National Hot Dog Day

[Guest guest]

You have so many battles to fight and none rates higher than another?

When do you sleep?

 

Strategically we must choose our battles. But you would have us

fighting on all fronts at once. Fortunately, you are not a general defending a

nation from invasion.

 

Don

 

 

 

 

 

 

On Behalf Of metalscarab

Monday, July 23, 2007 1:06 PM

 

Re: RE: /Marcy/PETA and Playboy Playmates Team up

for National Hot Dog Day

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hi Don

 

 

 

 

 

> I saw that post as proclaiming “It’s OK for

animals to die as long as WOMEN ARE NOT TREATED AS SEX OBJECTS.”

 

 

 

 

 

The way your posts are coming across to me

is: " It's OK to treat women as sex objects, as long as a few people stop

killing animals as a result " . I don't see the two concepts as being

mutually exclusive - surely we should be attempting to prevent both animals

dying, and women being treated as sex objects.

 

 

 

 

 

I think people who are stupid enough to be

drawn to an advertising campaign because it has semi naked women in it, really

aren't going to have the intelligence, or the compassion to give a fig about

animals. After all, if they can't even have respect for their own species,

how can they possibly have respect for other species?

 

 

 

 

 

BB

 

 

Peter

[Guest guest]

Can you not understand what is being said?

 

You don't have to 'fight' all wrongs - but equally you do not have to

add to them or condone them.

 

Jo

 

, " Don Scott " <donscott wrote:

>

> You have so many battles to fight and none rates higher than

another? When

> do you sleep?

>

>

>

> Strategically we must choose our battles. But you would have us

fighting on

> all fronts at once. Fortunately, you are not a general defending a

nation

> from invasion.

>

>

>

> Don

>

 

On

> Behalf Of metalscarab

> Monday, July 23, 2007 1:06 PM

>

> Re: RE: /Marcy/PETA and Playboy Playmates

Team up for

> National Hot Dog Day

>

>

>

> Hi Don

>

>

>

> > I saw that post as proclaiming " It's OK for animals to die as

long as

> WOMEN ARE NOT TREATED AS SEX OBJECTS. "

>

>

>

> The way your posts are coming across to me is: " It's OK to treat

women as

> sex objects, as long as a few people stop killing animals as a

result " . I

> don't see the two concepts as being mutually exclusive - surely we

should be

> attempting to prevent both animals dying, and women being treated

as sex

> objects.

>

>

>

> I think people who are stupid enough to be drawn to an advertising

campaign

> because it has semi naked women in it, really aren't going to have

the

> intelligence, or the compassion to give a fig about animals. After

all, if

> they can't even have respect for their own species, how can they

possibly

> have respect for other species?

>

>

>

> BB

>

> Peter

>

[Guest guest]

There is a connection that is undeniable, between commodifying women

and commodifying animals. Sexism is not irrelevant to speciescism.

Why should PETA use a naked woman to promote Ethical reasoning? Seems

contradictory.

Does this happen with other issues? for example human-rights

activists trying to get food for hungry children in Africa. Do they

use naked women to get their message across?

Why would a naked women help people start thinking about the abuse,

torture, and exploitation of animals. Sure it gets attention. But

there are surely BETTER ways to get attention.

 

Why can't a person be opposed to all forms of discrimination against

humans and non-human animals? I you're a vegan who believes that

animals should live painfree lives, to roam about equally as humans

do. Then why wouldn't you believe that women have to same rights to

live as equals to men. Speciesim, Racism, and Sexism are all forms of

oppresion. All are morally wrong.

 

 

 

, " heartwerk " <jo.heartwork wrote:

>

> Can you not understand what is being said?

>

> You don't have to 'fight' all wrongs - but equally you do not have to

> add to them or condone them.

>

> Jo

>

> , " Don Scott " <donscott@> wrote:

> >

> > You have so many battles to fight and none rates higher than

> another? When

> > do you sleep?

> >

> >

> >

> > Strategically we must choose our battles. But you would have us

> fighting on

> > all fronts at once. Fortunately, you are not a general defending a

> nation

> > from invasion.

> >

> >

> >

> > Don

> >

[Guest guest]

Hi Anouk

 

Some fine points. I don't recall seeing any adverts from Amnesty

International which commodify women, or any other human rights

organisations.

 

You've also reminded me of a comment on the Reclaiming Principles of Unity

(basically a document which defines what those who identify with the

Reclaiming tradition of Paganism believe): " Our feminism includes a radical

analysis of power, seeing all systems of oppression as interrelated, rooted

in structures of domination and control. " Sadly not everyone in Reclaiming

extends that to animals, but some of us do! :-)

 

BB

Peter

 

 

-

" flower child " <zurumato

 

Tuesday, July 24, 2007 5:47 PM

Re: RE:Peter/Marcy/PETA and Playboy Playmates Team up

for National Hot Dog Day

 

 

> There is a connection that is undeniable, between commodifying women

> and commodifying animals. Sexism is not irrelevant to speciescism.

> Why should PETA use a naked woman to promote Ethical reasoning? Seems

> contradictory.

> Does this happen with other issues? for example human-rights

> activists trying to get food for hungry children in Africa. Do they

> use naked women to get their message across?

> Why would a naked women help people start thinking about the abuse,

> torture, and exploitation of animals. Sure it gets attention. But

> there are surely BETTER ways to get attention.

>

> Why can't a person be opposed to all forms of discrimination against

> humans and non-human animals? I you're a vegan who believes that

> animals should live painfree lives, to roam about equally as humans

> do. Then why wouldn't you believe that women have to same rights to

> live as equals to men. Speciesim, Racism, and Sexism are all forms of

> oppresion. All are morally wrong.

>

>

>

> , " heartwerk " <jo.heartwork wrote:

> >

> > Can you not understand what is being said?

> >

> > You don't have to 'fight' all wrongs - but equally you do not have to

> > add to them or condone them.

> >

> > Jo

> >

> > , " Don Scott " <donscott@> wrote:

> > >

> > > You have so many battles to fight and none rates higher than

> > another? When

> > > do you sleep?

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Strategically we must choose our battles. But you would have us

> > fighting on

> > > all fronts at once. Fortunately, you are not a general defending a

> > nation

> > > from invasion.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Don

> > >

>

>

>

>

> To send an email to -

>

[Guest guest]

I, personally, do believe that you can fight against all forms of

discrimination. I was making the point that someone else might be

happy fighting just one discrimination- but that they should not add

to other discriminations or condone them.

 

Jo

 

In , " flower child " <zurumato wrote:

>

> There is a connection that is undeniable, between commodifying

women

> and commodifying animals. Sexism is not irrelevant to speciescism.

> Why should PETA use a naked woman to promote Ethical reasoning?

Seems

> contradictory.

> Does this happen with other issues? for example human-rights

> activists trying to get food for hungry children in Africa. Do

they

> use naked women to get their message across?

> Why would a naked women help people start thinking about the abuse,

> torture, and exploitation of animals. Sure it gets attention. But

> there are surely BETTER ways to get attention.

>

> Why can't a person be opposed to all forms of discrimination against

> humans and non-human animals? I you're a vegan who believes that

> animals should live painfree lives, to roam about equally as humans

> do. Then why wouldn't you believe that women have to same rights to

> live as equals to men. Speciesim, Racism, and Sexism are all forms

of

> oppresion. All are morally wrong.

>

>

>

> , " heartwerk " <jo.heartwork@>

wrote:

> >

> > Can you not understand what is being said?

> >

> > You don't have to 'fight' all wrongs - but equally you do not

have to

> > add to them or condone them.

> >

> > Jo

> >

> > , " Don Scott " <donscott@> wrote:

> > >

> > > You have so many battles to fight and none rates higher than

> > another? When

> > > do you sleep?

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Strategically we must choose our battles. But you would have us

> > fighting on

> > > all fronts at once. Fortunately, you are not a general

defending a

> > nation

> > > from invasion.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Don

> > >

>