Guest guest Posted August 3, 2007 Report Share Posted August 3, 2007 Read this McDougall Newsletter online: http://www.drmcdougall.com/misc/2007nl/jul/070700.htm You are currently d as: yarrow July 2007 Printer Friendly pdf Vol. 6, No. 7 PDF File Books and DVDs Previous Newsletters We encourage you to pass this newsletter along to friends. We have a strict privacy policy and do not share your e-mail address with anyone except as needed for the newsletter production process. Rich Diet Is Child Neglect and Responsible People Need to Act In England, obesity has been a factor in at least 20 child protection cases in the last year.1 The British Medical Association (BMA) just rejected a call for the parents of young obese children, under 12, to be charged with neglect.2 At this meeting held in Torquay, England on June 25 to 29, 2007, a representative said, “If parents will not or cannot take responsibility to provide the right diet and encourage exercise for their children after engaging with doctors and dietitians, we believe that this is a form of child neglect. If the child's health is at risk they should be removed from their parents for their own protection.” |MORE| Save Your Kidneys—Part 2 Diet and Kidney Health Typically a patient discovers his or her kidneys are failing by a routine laboratory blood test called a serum creatinine, which indirectly measures kidney function. (Normal creatinine depends on a person’s age and in older adults is 1.2 mg/dL or less.) Once a problem is discovered, the doctor will try to slow the progression of this disease with medications intended to treat high blood pressure, diabetes, high cholesterol, and/or the use of anti-angiotensin medications (as discussed in my June 2007 newsletter). Little or no attention is given to what the patient eats, because primary and ongoing medical training never covers profit-free diet therapy. |MORE| Study Fails to Show Benefits of Fruits and Veggies for Breast Cancer Patients - Women are Blamed, but the Investigators Were at Fault The meat and dairy industry must have been laughing all the way to the bank on Tuesday July 17, 2007 when headlines worldwide announced the results of a seven-year diet experiment, known as The Women’s Healthy Eating and Living (WHEL) Randomized Trial, of more than 3,000 women with breast cancer. This government funded study (kicked off by a $5 million grant from the late Wal-Mart heir John Walton with an additional $30 million in support from the National Cancer Institute) found no benefit from recommending that women with breast cancer eat more fruits and vegetables, and less fat. |MORE| Featured Recipes VEGETABLE TABOULI GARBANZO SPINACH SALAD RED BEAN GUMBO MEXICAN VEGETABLE SOUP WITH CILANTRO PESTO CILANTRO PESTO TAMALE BURGERS TACO SAUCE MISO SOUP FETTUCCINE IN CREAM SAUCE WITH SUMMER VEGETABLES VEGAN DONE LIGHT - MINI MEXICAN " PIZZAS " |MORE| 2007 John McDougall McDougall Wellness Center P.O. Box 14039, Santa Rosa, CA 95402 http://www.drmcdougall.com Subscribe | Un | Change Address Newsletter Design and Management by http://www.bestnewslettersonline.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2007 Report Share Posted August 3, 2007 What is a McDougaller? yarrow wrote: Read this McDougall Newsletter online: http://www.drmcdougall.com/misc/2007nl/jul/070700.htmYou are currently d as: yarrow July 2007 Printer Friendly pdf Vol. 6, No. 7 PDF File Books and DVDs Previous Newsletters We encourage you to pass this newsletter along to friends.We have a strict privacy policy and do not share your e-mail address with anyone except as needed for the newsletter production process. Rich Diet Is Child Neglect and Responsible PeopleNeed to Act In England, obesity has been a factor in at least 20 child protection cases in the last year.1 The British Medical Association (BMA) just rejected a call for the parents of young obese children, under 12, to be charged with neglect.2 At this meeting held in Torquay, England on June 25 to 29, 2007, a representative said, “If parents will not or cannot take responsibility to provide the right diet and encourage exercise for their children after engaging with doctors and dietitians, we believe that this is a form of child neglect. If the child's health is at risk they should be removed from their parents for their own protection.” |MORE| Save Your Kidneys—Part 2Diet and Kidney Health Typically a patient discovers his or her kidneys are failing by a routine laboratory blood test called a serum creatinine, which indirectly measures kidney function. (Normal creatinine depends on a person’s age and in older adults is 1.2 mg/dL or less.) Once a problem is discovered, the doctor will try to slow the progression of this disease with medications intended to treat high blood pressure, diabetes, high cholesterol, and/or the use of anti-angiotensin medications (as discussed in my June 2007 newsletter). Little or no attention is given to what the patient eats, because primary and ongoing medical training never covers profit-free diet therapy. |MORE| Study Fails to Show Benefits of Fruits and Veggies for Breast Cancer Patients - Women are Blamed, but the Investigators Were at Fault The meat and dairy industry must have been laughing all the way to the bank on Tuesday July 17, 2007 when headlines worldwide announced the results of a seven-year diet experiment, known as The Women’s Healthy Eating and Living (WHEL) Randomized Trial, of more than 3,000 women with breast cancer. This government funded study (kicked off by a $5 million grant from the late Wal-Mart heir John Walton with an additional $30 million in support from the National Cancer Institute) found no benefit from recommending that women with breast cancer eat more fruits and vegetables, and less fat. |MORE| Featured Recipes VEGETABLE TABOULI GARBANZO SPINACH SALAD RED BEAN GUMBO MEXICAN VEGETABLE SOUP WITH CILANTRO PESTO CILANTRO PESTO TAMALE BURGERS TACO SAUCE MISO SOUP FETTUCCINE IN CREAM SAUCE WITH SUMMER VEGETABLES VEGAN DONE LIGHT - MINI MEXICAN "PIZZAS" |MORE| 2007 John McDougall McDougall Wellness Center P.O. Box 14039, Santa Rosa, CA 95402http://www.drmcdougall.com Subscribe | Un | Change Address Newsletter Design and Management by http://www.bestnewslettersonline.com/ Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join 's user panel and lay it on us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 6, 2007 Report Share Posted August 6, 2007 At 9:15 AM -0700 8/3/07, Tracy H. wrote: What is a McDougaller? > It's someone who follows the McDougall diet, which was devised to help people recover from a long list of chronic health conditions. Basically, it's a vegan diet with no added oil and very sparing use of high-fat foods such as tofu, peanut butter, and avocado. They've amassed a lot of experience at getting people to go vegan (for " selfish " health reasons), and I'd guess they've gotten many, many more people off the meatwagon than PETA. I like the Star McDougallers stories on the website, where people tell personal stories of years or decades of health woes, resistance to changing their health habits, then finally doing it as a last resort and enjoying health for the first time in years. (I've very sparingly forwarded these to friends and relatives who complain of similar health problems.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 7, 2007 Report Share Posted August 7, 2007 I've heard Dr. McDougall talk, and think what he's doing is terrific. I've never seen any numbers showing how many people have been converted to veganism from a meat-based diet by various groups or methods. I'm really interested in knowing where to find this information. Can you tell me where you found the number of people converted by McDougall, PETA, and other organizations? I had no idea it was that many that McDougall has converted. I've also been trying to get unhealthy family members to consider his retreats, sending them the success stories, etc.... Marcy - yarrow Sunday, August 05, 2007 9:19 PM Re: Fwd: The McDougall Newsletter - July 2007 At 9:15 AM -0700 8/3/07, Tracy H. wrote: What is a McDougaller? > It's someone who follows the McDougall diet, which was devised to help people recover from a long list of chronic health conditions. Basically, it's a vegan diet with no added oil and very sparing use of high-fat foods such as tofu, peanut butter, and avocado. They've amassed a lot of experience at getting people to go vegan (for "selfish" health reasons), and I'd guess they've gotten many, many more people off the meatwagon than PETA. I like the Star McDougallers stories on the website, where people tell personal stories of years or decades of health woes, resistance to changing their health habits, then finally doing it as a last resort and enjoying health for the first time in years. (I've very sparingly forwarded these to friends and relatives who complain of similar health problems.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 7, 2007 Report Share Posted August 7, 2007 I've never seen any numbers either, which is why I said " I'd guess... " It's a guess, based on a few things: 1. The program places a lot of emphasis on food -- how to eat in restaurants, how to prepare food, what to eat, etc. There are even recipe/cooking e-lists and forums. In that way it's like a vegan reeducation project. 2. When I was doing veg-restaurant lists, I came across quite a few restaurants in the area that specified " McDougall " on their menus or in their ads. Getting restaurants to change is a big benefit for everyone, even if it's only on a local level. 3. Potlucks around here became vegan not long after McDougall started his California gig, and the regular members tended to be older and know all about the McDougall program. 4. Food is provided for people who attend the 14-day program, which means they have a good chance both to taste the food (and reeducate their taste buds) and to see the effects on their health. I read somewhere that it takes a couple weeks to change a habit. 5. His research seems meticulous, so anyone who trusts science will find his approach appealing. And I wouldn't characterize the people who follow the McD plan as " converted, " just that they are no longer eating meat and are likely to continue doing so, as long as the health benefits are clear. I would not be surprised if they don't think of themselves as vegetarian, but as long as they are not eating the animals, I don't care what they call themselves. In contrast, I find PETA's approach offputting. It wasn't around when I became veg, but if it were, I imagine its tactics would make me have second thoughts and delay my decision, especially if I didn't know any veg*ns. Certainly I feel I have to distance myself from that organization whenever I meet someone who has derived their whole notion of " vegan " from them. In addition, all the drama makes me question the accuracy of the rest of its claims. I'd also be interested in finding out what organizations and what actions are influential. The research I've seen on changing habits suggests that anecdotal information from friends and acquaintances is more influential than any pamphlet or authoritative source. And, of course, close relatives (and possibly close friends) -- the people who know you best -- are bound to be the last to be swayed. At 5:26 PM -0700 8/6/07, Marcy wrote: I've heard Dr. McDougall talk, and think what he's doing is terrific. I've never seen any numbers showing how many people have been converted to veganism from a meat-based diet by various groups or methods. I'm really interested in knowing where to find this information. Can you tell me where you found the number of people converted by McDougall, PETA, and other organizations? I had no idea it was that many that McDougall has converted. I've also been trying to get unhealthy family members to consider his retreats, sending them the success stories, etc.... Marcy - yarrow Sunday, August 05, 2007 9:19 PM Re: Fwd: The McDougall Newsletter - July 2007 At 9:15 AM -0700 8/3/07, Tracy H. wrote: What is a McDougaller? > It's someone who follows the McDougall diet, which was devised to help people recover from a long list of chronic health conditions. Basically, it's a vegan diet with no added oil and very sparing use of high-fat foods such as tofu, peanut butter, and avocado. They've amassed a lot of experience at getting people to go vegan (for " selfish " health reasons), and I'd guess they've gotten many, many more people off the meatwagon than PETA. I like the Star McDougallers stories on the website, where people tell personal stories of years or decades of health woes, resistance to changing their health habits, then finally doing it as a last resort and enjoying health for the first time in years. (I've very sparingly forwarded these to friends and relatives who complain of similar health problems.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 8, 2007 Report Share Posted August 8, 2007 Thanks, yarrow, I was wondering. I think it's all good. Different organizations reach different people in different ways. I don't know anyone who has said they were "convinced" by any particular group, so I have no way of knowing. People talk about both these groups as well as others, appreciative of their support, since being vegan can be lonely! Marcy - yarrow Tuesday, August 07, 2007 2:00 PM Re: Fwd: The McDougall Newsletter - July 2007 I've never seen any numbers either, which is why I said "I'd guess..." It's a guess, based on a few things: 1. The program places a lot of emphasis on food -- how to eat in restaurants, how to prepare food, what to eat, etc. There are even recipe/cooking e-lists and forums. In that way it's like a vegan reeducation project. 2. When I was doing veg-restaurant lists, I came across quite a few restaurants in the area that specified "McDougall" on their menus or in their ads. Getting restaurants to change is a big benefit for everyone, even if it's only on a local level. 3. Potlucks around here became vegan not long after McDougall started his California gig, and the regular members tended to be older and know all about the McDougall program. 4. Food is provided for people who attend the 14-day program, which means they have a good chance both to taste the food (and reeducate their taste buds) and to see the effects on their health. I read somewhere that it takes a couple weeks to change a habit. 5. His research seems meticulous, so anyone who trusts science will find his approach appealing. And I wouldn't characterize the people who follow the McD plan as "converted," just that they are no longer eating meat and are likely to continue doing so, as long as the health benefits are clear. I would not be surprised if they don't think of themselves as vegetarian, but as long as they are not eating the animals, I don't care what they call themselves. In contrast, I find PETA's approach offputting. It wasn't around when I became veg, but if it were, I imagine its tactics would make me have second thoughts and delay my decision, especially if I didn't know any veg*ns. Certainly I feel I have to distance myself from that organization whenever I meet someone who has derived their whole notion of "vegan" from them. In addition, all the drama makes me question the accuracy of the rest of its claims. I'd also be interested in finding out what organizations and what actions are influential. The research I've seen on changing habits suggests that anecdotal information from friends and acquaintances is more influential than any pamphlet or authoritative source. And, of course, close relatives (and possibly close friends) -- the people who know you best -- are bound to be the last to be swayed. At 5:26 PM -0700 8/6/07, Marcy wrote: I've heard Dr. McDougall talk, and think what he's doing is terrific. I've never seen any numbers showing how many people have been converted to veganism from a meat-based diet by various groups or methods. I'm really interested in knowing where to find this information. Can you tell me where you found the number of people converted by McDougall, PETA, and other organizations? I had no idea it was that many that McDougall has converted. I've also been trying to get unhealthy family members to consider his retreats, sending them the success stories, etc.... Marcy - yarrow Sunday, August 05, 2007 9:19 PM Re: Fwd: The McDougall Newsletter - July 2007 At 9:15 AM -0700 8/3/07, Tracy H. wrote: What is a McDougaller? > It's someone who follows the McDougall diet, which was devised to help people recover from a long list of chronic health conditions. Basically, it's a vegan diet with no added oil and very sparing use of high-fat foods such as tofu, peanut butter, and avocado. They've amassed a lot of experience at getting people to go vegan (for "selfish" health reasons), and I'd guess they've gotten many, many more people off the meatwagon than PETA. I like the Star McDougallers stories on the website, where people tell personal stories of years or decades of health woes, resistance to changing their health habits, then finally doing it as a last resort and enjoying health for the first time in years. (I've very sparingly forwarded these to friends and relatives who complain of similar health problems.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 8, 2007 Report Share Posted August 8, 2007 At 4:06 PM -0700 8/7/07, Marcy wrote: Thanks, yarrow, I was wondering. I think it's all good. Different organizations reach different people in different ways. I don't know anyone who has said they were " convinced " by any particular group, so I have no way of knowing. People talk about both these groups as well as others, appreciative of their support, since being vegan can be lonely! >> I know one person who was persuaded by John Robbins's Diet for a New America. I'd known him for a few years as a colleague at an environmental publication, and he said at least once that he'd tried to be a vegetarian for 6 months and decided it wasn't for him, so he knew he could never be a vegetarian. And then, out of the blue, I got an e-mail several years later, after we'd both moved to different jobs and different states, saying he was now vegan after reading Robbins. So it pays to treat everyone as a potential vegan, and don't believe them when they say " never. " I, of course, had been the lone vegetarian at that environmental publication. Probably there's a word for it -- cognitive dissonance? the basic contrarian nature of people in general? guilt? -- but I've noticed that sometimes the most vehement antiveg pronouncements come from people who fit the media image of " veg*n " (hard to define -- think of veg sitcom characters, or famous people who are known to be veg). These days, the most rabid antiveg stuff I've seen is coming from people in the permaculture, organic food, and slow food subcultures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 8, 2007 Report Share Posted August 8, 2007 When I read John Robbins, Diet for a New America, I had just transitioned from vegetarian to vegan. I can see how it could turn someone into a vegan! I cried, and felt the pain of the poor animals so deeply, I couldn't finish the book. At least John's book, The Food Revolution was easier to read all the way through! I may have mentioned earlier, that because of Diet for a Small Planet, I went vegetarian for the first time. I also think we have the potential to plant the seeds of a better lifestyle; we can teach by providing information and by setting the example. Knowing you, for example may have given your (former) colleague the confidence to go vegan when he eventually did. I'd say good going, for being a positive influence. And I really agree with you, that we should not accept the "nevers"; we shouldn't underestimate the power of a human being to make positive changes in their life. So you worked with "meat-eating environmentalists"? I've seen what you mean about permaculturists, etc..... They think it's cool to raise chickens in their own yard so they can kill and eat them later. There are those who believe that raising and killing an animal in a way they consider "humane" justifies eating meat. And the organic foodies, slow foodies, they somehow feel justified because the meat is "better" or the animals are raised more humanely. Ha! What's humane about breeding animals only meant for the stomachs of humans? Alice Waters, the slow food thing....... well, none of these groups you mention - organics, slow foodies, permaculturists - ever said they were veg; there was never any pretense on that score. If anything, they use their practices to rationalize eating meat. Have you had personal experience with these groups? It's a drag that organic farming often (usually) means use of blood and bone meal, etc.... Marcy - yarrow Tuesday, August 07, 2007 8:41 PM Re: Fwd: The McDougall Newsletter - July 2007 At 4:06 PM -0700 8/7/07, Marcy wrote: Thanks, yarrow, I was wondering. I think it's all good. Different organizations reach different people in different ways. I don't know anyone who has said they were "convinced" by any particular group, so I have no way of knowing. People talk about both these groups as well as others, appreciative of their support, since being vegan can be lonely! >> I know one person who was persuaded by John Robbins's Diet for a New America. I'd known him for a few years as a colleague at an environmental publication, and he said at least once that he'd tried to be a vegetarian for 6 months and decided it wasn't for him, so he knew he could never be a vegetarian. And then, out of the blue, I got an e-mail several years later, after we'd both moved to different jobs and different states, saying he was now vegan after reading Robbins. So it pays to treat everyone as a potential vegan, and don't believe them when they say "never." I, of course, had been the lone vegetarian at that environmental publication. Probably there's a word for it -- cognitive dissonance? the basic contrarian nature of people in general? guilt? -- but I've noticed that sometimes the most vehement antiveg pronouncements come from people who fit the media image of "veg*n" (hard to define -- think of veg sitcom characters, or famous people who are known to be veg). These days, the most rabid antiveg stuff I've seen is coming from people in the permaculture, organic food, and slow food subcultures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 10, 2007 Report Share Posted August 10, 2007 At 9:40 PM -0700 8/7/07, Marcy wrote: I also think we have the potential to plant the seeds of a better lifestyle; we can teach by providing information and by setting the example. .... And the organic foodies, slow foodies, they somehow feel justified because the meat is " better " or the animals are raised more humanely. Ha! What's humane about breeding animals only meant for the stomachs of humans? Alice Waters, the slow food thing....... well, none of these groups you mention - organics, slow foodies, permaculturists - ever said they were veg; there was never any pretense on that score. If anything, they use their practices to rationalize eating meat. Have you had personal experience with these groups? It's a drag that organic farming often (usually) means use of blood and bone meal, etc.... >> Organic farming need not use animal products. My garden was veganic before last year, when we got a big pile of horse manure at the community garden -- hard to pass up! I fertilize only with homemade compost (which now includes horse manure), plus an occasional infusion of comfrey tea or kelp (none this year, yet -- too busy doing other things). And this spring, my snow peas were sweeter than a neighboring gardener's, who used organic fertilizer, so fertilizer is sometimes detrimental. Also, I would not want to be in a garden that used slaughterhouse by-products. Some of the other gardeners at the community garden use stinky fish emulsion or chicken manure, and I try to stay out of the garden at those times, it reeks! Yes, it's all about planting seeds. Whenever I think about keeping a low profile about being vegan so as not to get into those endless-loop discussions with nonvegan " environmentalists, " I realize that if I say nothing, I lose the opportunity to make these issues part of the discussion. But some individuals have hair-trigger antivegan rants at the ready, so it's always a challenge to come up with something that can add to the discussion, not stop it. (Still trying to come up with the magic formula.) I've been to permaculture events in the Bay Area where people talked about their rabbits and passed around the rabbit skins, and went on and on about how it was a good thing and how vegetarians shouldn't be offended.... Or organic gardeners go on and on about keeping chickens in the backyard. In a recent permaculture discussion, one person mentioned he was a veganic farmer, and several people went on the rant about how animals have to be included, it's antiecological to exclude pigs and cows, etc. Then they go on about how the veg*ns should be " tolerant " of normal people and not impose their views, with never a thought that in fact they are intolerant of the merest mention that someone else eschews cow manure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 11, 2007 Report Share Posted August 11, 2007 You are right, organic farming need not include animal products, but most organic farmers use the animal meals. At a Veg Day one year, these two women did a talk about their vegan soil amendments. I myself use my own compost, and compost tea. Unfortunately, however, buying organic produce usually means buying food grown with application of animal and seafood meals and other products. With vegans such a minority of the population, it's unlikely that the farmers represented at the Farmers Markets would be vegan! The hair on my neck nearly bristles at the comment by meat-eaters that vegans should be more tolerant........... HA!!! Do we have a choice, when we see meat everywhere we go? That's like saying bicyclists should be more tolerant of cars. In a meat-eating society, vegans are never on equal par with meat-eaters. There is usually very limited choice on menus at restaurants, and only token accomodation at events. And they say we should be tolerant? Thanks for sharing your experiences. They are similar to mine. - yarrow Friday, August 10, 2007 3:16 PM Re: Fwd: The McDougall Newsletter - July 2007 At 9:40 PM -0700 8/7/07, Marcy wrote: I also think we have the potential to plant the seeds of a better lifestyle; we can teach by providing information and by setting the example. ....And the organic foodies, slow foodies, they somehow feel justified because the meat is "better" or the animals are raised more humanely. Ha! What's humane about breeding animals only meant for the stomachs of humans? Alice Waters, the slow food thing....... well, none of these groups you mention - organics, slow foodies, permaculturists - ever said they were veg; there was never any pretense on that score. If anything, they use their practices to rationalize eating meat. Have you had personal experience with these groups? It's a drag that organic farming often (usually) means use of blood and bone meal, etc.... >> Organic farming need not use animal products. My garden was veganic before last year, when we got a big pile of horse manure at the community garden -- hard to pass up! I fertilize only with homemade compost (which now includes horse manure), plus an occasional infusion of comfrey tea or kelp (none this year, yet -- too busy doing other things). And this spring, my snow peas were sweeter than a neighboring gardener's, who used organic fertilizer, so fertilizer is sometimes detrimental. Also, I would not want to be in a garden that used slaughterhouse by-products. Some of the other gardeners at the community garden use stinky fish emulsion or chicken manure, and I try to stay out of the garden at those times, it reeks! Yes, it's all about planting seeds. Whenever I think about keeping a low profile about being vegan so as not to get into those endless-loop discussions with nonvegan "environmentalists," I realize that if I say nothing, I lose the opportunity to make these issues part of the discussion. But some individuals have hair-trigger antivegan rants at the ready, so it's always a challenge to come up with something that can add to the discussion, not stop it. (Still trying to come up with the magic formula.) I've been to permaculture events in the Bay Area where people talked about their rabbits and passed around the rabbit skins, and went on and on about how it was a good thing and how vegetarians shouldn't be offended.... Or organic gardeners go on and on about keeping chickens in the backyard. In a recent permaculture discussion, one person mentioned he was a veganic farmer, and several people went on the rant about how animals have to be included, it's antiecological to exclude pigs and cows, etc. Then they go on about how the veg*ns should be "tolerant" of normal people and not impose their views, with never a thought that in fact they are intolerant of the merest mention that someone else eschews cow manure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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