Guest guest Posted August 21, 2007 Report Share Posted August 21, 2007 I wrote the Vegetarian Society asking why they considered shellac to be suitable for vegetarians, and the answer is below. They are rather conveniently believing that none of the insects get killed! What annoys me is that because they think it is okay, Tesco and other places put shellac onto things like chocolate raisins and label them alright for vegetarians. Jo " The Society has done extensive research into the production of shellac and can confirm that the Society does consider it to be vegetarian. It is produced by the Lac insect, Laccifer Lacca (Kerr), which like other scale insects of the super family Coccoidea, is naturally parasitic on certain trees and shrubs. In the larval stage the insect is about 0.5mm in length and sufficiently mobile to crawl on branches where it fixes it’s position. The insect inserts its proboscis into the branch to secure itself then secretes a protective coating of dark red chilinous scale and a resin called Lac. The resin is mainly produced by the female who produces a resin to cocoon eggs that she lays. The female then dies naturally. When the newly hatched insects leave the cocoon it is then harvested to produce shellac. Doubtless some insects will die in the harvesting process, but it is in the interests of the farmers to ensure that there are as few as possible insects contaminating the product as the purification process, which ensures there are no traces of insects whatsoever in the final porduct, is costly. If any insects die they do so " accidentally " - ie it is not part of the necessary process to produce shellac. You can contrast this with the wilful slaughter of millions of insects by pesticides used on the huge majority of vegetable, grain and pulse crops - ie the wheat farmer wants to kill insects, whereas the shellac farmer doesn't. Also, there are no traces of insects in shellac, unlike in many other products, such as bread and chocolate. Chris Olivant Information and Customer Services Manager The Vegetarian Society Direct line: 0161 925 2022 Web site: www.vegsoc.org Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 22, 2007 Report Share Posted August 22, 2007 Well what do you expect? no doubt they consider eggs, honey, silk etc vegetarian also..... The Valley Vegan.............jo <jo.heartwork wrote: I wrote the Vegetarian Society asking why they considered shellac to besuitable for vegetarians, and the answer is below. They are ratherconveniently believing that none of the insects get killed! What annoys meis that because they think it is okay, Tesco and other places put shellaconto things like chocolate raisins and label them alright for vegetarians.Jo"The Society has done extensive research into the production of shellac andcan confirm that the Society does consider it to be vegetarian.It is produced by the Lac insect, Laccifer Lacca (Kerr), which like otherscale insects of the super family Coccoidea, is naturally parasitic oncertain trees and shrubs. In the larval stage the insect is about 0.5mm inlength and sufficiently mobile to crawl on branches where it fixes it’sposition. The insect inserts its proboscis into the branch to secure itselfthen secretes a protective coating of dark red chilinous scale and a resincalled Lac.The resin is mainly produced by the female who produces a resin to cocooneggs that she lays. The female then dies naturally. When the newly hatchedinsects leave the cocoon it is then harvested to produce shellac.Doubtless some insects will die in the harvesting process, but it is in theinterests of the farmers to ensure that there are as few as possible insectscontaminating the product as the purification process, which ensures thereare no traces of insects whatsoever in the final porduct, is costly. If anyinsects die they do so "accidentally" - ie it is not part of the necessaryprocess to produce shellac. You can contrast this with the wilful slaughterof millions of insects by pesticides used on the huge majority of vegetable,grain and pulse crops - ie the wheat farmer wants to kill insects, whereasthe shellac farmer doesn't. Also, there are no traces of insects in shellac,unlike in many other products, such as bread and chocolate.Chris OlivantInformation and Customer Services ManagerThe Vegetarian SocietyDirect line: 0161 925 2022Web site: www.vegsoc.orgPeter H Answers - Get better answers from someone who knows. Try it now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 22, 2007 Report Share Posted August 22, 2007 They consider eggs, honey and silk vegetarian because they do not involve killing the animal. Shellac does involve killing the insects, therefore it is not vegetarian. Jo - Peter VV Wednesday, August 22, 2007 8:20 PM Re: Shellac Well what do you expect? no doubt they consider eggs, honey, silk etc vegetarian also..... The Valley Vegan.............jo <jo.heartwork wrote: I wrote the Vegetarian Society asking why they considered shellac to besuitable for vegetarians, and the answer is below. They are ratherconveniently believing that none of the insects get killed! What annoys meis that because they think it is okay, Tesco and other places put shellaconto things like chocolate raisins and label them alright for vegetarians.Jo"The Society has done extensive research into the production of shellac andcan confirm that the Society does consider it to be vegetarian.It is produced by the Lac insect, Laccifer Lacca (Kerr), which like otherscale insects of the super family Coccoidea, is naturally parasitic oncertain trees and shrubs. In the larval stage the insect is about 0.5mm inlength and sufficiently mobile to crawl on branches where it fixes it’sposition. The insect inserts its proboscis into the branch to secure itselfthen secretes a protective coating of dark red chilinous scale and a resincalled Lac.The resin is mainly produced by the female who produces a resin to cocooneggs that she lays. The female then dies naturally. When the newly hatchedinsects leave the cocoon it is then harvested to produce shellac.Doubtless some insects will die in the harvesting process, but it is in theinterests of the farmers to ensure that there are as few as possible insectscontaminating the product as the purification process, which ensures thereare no traces of insects whatsoever in the final porduct, is costly. If anyinsects die they do so "accidentally" - ie it is not part of the necessaryprocess to produce shellac. You can contrast this with the wilful slaughterof millions of insects by pesticides used on the huge majority of vegetable,grain and pulse crops - ie the wheat farmer wants to kill insects, whereasthe shellac farmer doesn't. Also, there are no traces of insects in shellac,unlike in many other products, such as bread and chocolate.Chris OlivantInformation and Customer Services ManagerThe Vegetarian SocietyDirect line: 0161 925 2022Web site: www.vegsoc.org Peter H Answers - Get better answers from someone who knows. Try it now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 23, 2007 Report Share Posted August 23, 2007 doesnt honey and silk involve killing the insects involved? bees undergo treatments similar to those endured by other farmed animals. They go through routine examination and handling, artificial feeding regimes, drug and pesticide treatment, genetic manipulation, artificial insemination, transportation (by air, rail and road) and slaughter. Queen bees are artificially inseminated with sperm obtained from decapitated bees. Queens are systematically slaughtered every two years because over time their egg producing abilities decline so their whole hive becomes unproductive and uneconomic. In Israel they are killed and re-queened every year. When beekeepers manipulate combs many bees are crushed and killed. Hives have smoke puffed into them to calm bees down and make them easier to handle. Special excluders or devices that violate the bees' space are attached to hives to collect bee products from bees as they enter hives. Bees are separated from their hives by being shaken vigorously or jetted out with powerful streams of air. They may have their legs and wings clipped off. Clipping the wings of queen bees prevents them from swarming (flying off!). during the commercial production of silk, only enough adult moths are allowed to emerge to ensure continuation of the species. Most of the remainder of the silkworms are killed by heat, e.g. immersion in boiling water, steaming or drying in an oven. The amount of useable silk from each cocoon is small. One hectare of mulberry trees yields 11.25 tonnes of leaves, producing around 200kg of cocoons, but just 40kg of raw silk. The silk yield is many times smaller than this in countries such as Thailand, where the silk is reeled by hand rather than by machine. So it takes hundreds of tiny lives to produce just one silk scarf or tie The Valley Vegan..............jo <jo.heartwork wrote: They consider eggs, honey and silk vegetarian because they do not involve killing the animal. Shellac does involve killing the insects, therefore it is not vegetarian. Jo - Peter VV Wednesday, August 22, 2007 8:20 PM Re: Shellac Well what do you expect? no doubt they consider eggs, honey, silk etc vegetarian also..... The Valley Vegan.............jo <jo.heartwork > wrote: I wrote the Vegetarian Society asking why they considered shellac to besuitable for vegetarians, and the answer is below. They are ratherconveniently believing that none of the insects get killed! What annoys meis that because they think it is okay, Tesco and other places put shellaconto things like chocolate raisins and label them alright for vegetarians.Jo"The Society has done extensive research into the production of shellac andcan confirm that the Society does consider it to be vegetarian.It is produced by the Lac insect, Laccifer Lacca (Kerr), which like otherscale insects of the super family Coccoidea, is naturally parasitic oncertain trees and shrubs. In the larval stage the insect is about 0.5mm inlength and sufficiently mobile to crawl on branches where it fixes it’sposition. The insect inserts its proboscis into the branch to secure itselfthen secretes a protective coating of dark red chilinous scale and a resincalled Lac.The resin is mainly produced by the female who produces a resin to cocooneggs that she lays. The female then dies naturally. When the newly hatchedinsects leave the cocoon it is then harvested to produce shellac.Doubtless some insects will die in the harvesting process, but it is in theinterests of the farmers to ensure that there are as few as possible insectscontaminating the product as the purification process, which ensures thereare no traces of insects whatsoever in the final porduct, is costly. If anyinsects die they do so "accidentally" - ie it is not part of the necessaryprocess to produce shellac. You can contrast this with the wilful slaughterof millions of insects by pesticides used on the huge majority of vegetable,grain and pulse crops - ie the wheat farmer wants to kill insects, whereasthe shellac farmer doesn't. Also, there are no traces of insects in shellac,unlike in many other products, such as bread and chocolate.Chris OlivantInformation and Customer Services ManagerThe Vegetarian SocietyDirect line: 0161 925 2022Web site: www.vegsoc.org Peter H Answers - Get better answers from someone who knows. Try it now. Peter H For ideas on reducing your carbon footprint visit For Good this month. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 23, 2007 Report Share Posted August 23, 2007 Quite possibly. I'm not arguing for honey or silk, as I don't use either. The definition of a vegetarian is that they don't eat anything involving the slaughter of an animal - that is their only criteria. I just feel that with shellac there is definitely slaughter involved and therefore disagree with their definition that it is suitable for vegetarians. If they said it wasn't suitable maybe more vegetarians would avoid it. Jo - Peter VV Thursday, August 23, 2007 8:44 AM Re: Shellac doesnt honey and silk involve killing the insects involved? bees undergo treatments similar to those endured by other farmed animals. They go through routine examination and handling, artificial feeding regimes, drug and pesticide treatment, genetic manipulation, artificial insemination, transportation (by air, rail and road) and slaughter. Queen bees are artificially inseminated with sperm obtained from decapitated bees. Queens are systematically slaughtered every two years because over time their egg producing abilities decline so their whole hive becomes unproductive and uneconomic. In Israel they are killed and re-queened every year. When beekeepers manipulate combs many bees are crushed and killed. Hives have smoke puffed into them to calm bees down and make them easier to handle. Special excluders or devices that violate the bees' space are attached to hives to collect bee products from bees as they enter hives. Bees are separated from their hives by being shaken vigorously or jetted out with powerful streams of air. They may have their legs and wings clipped off. Clipping the wings of queen bees prevents them from swarming (flying off!). during the commercial production of silk, only enough adult moths are allowed to emerge to ensure continuation of the species. Most of the remainder of the silkworms are killed by heat, e.g. immersion in boiling water, steaming or drying in an oven. The amount of useable silk from each cocoon is small. One hectare of mulberry trees yields 11.25 tonnes of leaves, producing around 200kg of cocoons, but just 40kg of raw silk. The silk yield is many times smaller than this in countries such as Thailand, where the silk is reeled by hand rather than by machine. So it takes hundreds of tiny lives to produce just one silk scarf or tie The Valley Vegan..............jo <jo.heartwork wrote: They consider eggs, honey and silk vegetarian because they do not involve killing the animal. Shellac does involve killing the insects, therefore it is not vegetarian. Jo - Peter VV Wednesday, August 22, 2007 8:20 PM Re: Shellac Well what do you expect? no doubt they consider eggs, honey, silk etc vegetarian also..... The Valley Vegan.............jo <jo.heartwork > wrote: I wrote the Vegetarian Society asking why they considered shellac to besuitable for vegetarians, and the answer is below. They are ratherconveniently believing that none of the insects get killed! What annoys meis that because they think it is okay, Tesco and other places put shellaconto things like chocolate raisins and label them alright for vegetarians.Jo"The Society has done extensive research into the production of shellac andcan confirm that the Society does consider it to be vegetarian.It is produced by the Lac insect, Laccifer Lacca (Kerr), which like otherscale insects of the super family Coccoidea, is naturally parasitic oncertain trees and shrubs. In the larval stage the insect is about 0.5mm inlength and sufficiently mobile to crawl on branches where it fixes it’sposition. The insect inserts its proboscis into the branch to secure itselfthen secretes a protective coating of dark red chilinous scale and a resincalled Lac.The resin is mainly produced by the female who produces a resin to cocooneggs that she lays. The female then dies naturally. When the newly hatchedinsects leave the cocoon it is then harvested to produce shellac.Doubtless some insects will die in the harvesting process, but it is in theinterests of the farmers to ensure that there are as few as possible insectscontaminating the product as the purification process, which ensures thereare no traces of insects whatsoever in the final porduct, is costly. If anyinsects die they do so "accidentally" - ie it is not part of the necessaryprocess to produce shellac. You can contrast this with the wilful slaughterof millions of insects by pesticides used on the huge majority of vegetable,grain and pulse crops - ie the wheat farmer wants to kill insects, whereasthe shellac farmer doesn't. Also, there are no traces of insects in shellac,unlike in many other products, such as bread and chocolate.Chris OlivantInformation and Customer Services ManagerThe Vegetarian SocietyDirect line: 0161 925 2022Web site: www.vegsoc.org Peter H Answers - Get better answers from someone who knows. Try it now. Peter H For ideas on reducing your carbon footprint visit For Good this month. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 23, 2007 Report Share Posted August 23, 2007 I just think ( imo) that the vegetarian society is a bit of a white elephant that constatntly sits on the sidelines instead of putting its heart on its sleeve. Of course bees die, of course silk worms die for their produce, they should admit these things. A large percentage of their recipes involve dairy and eggs, they would be better off producing pure vegetarian recipes and considering animal suffering more. Just my opinion tis all............ The Valley Vegan.............jo <jo.heartwork wrote: Quite possibly. I'm not arguing for honey or silk, as I don't use either. The definition of a vegetarian is that they don't eat anything involving the slaughter of an animal - that is their only criteria. I just feel that with shellac there is definitely slaughter involved and therefore disagree with their definition that it is suitable for vegetarians. If they said it wasn't suitable maybe more vegetarians would avoid it. Jo - Peter VV Thursday, August 23, 2007 8:44 AM Re: Shellac doesnt honey and silk involve killing the insects involved? bees undergo treatments similar to those endured by other farmed animals. They go through routine examination and handling, artificial feeding regimes, drug and pesticide treatment, genetic manipulation, artificial insemination, transportation (by air, rail and road) and slaughter. Queen bees are artificially inseminated with sperm obtained from decapitated bees. Queens are systematically slaughtered every two years because over time their egg producing abilities decline so their whole hive becomes unproductive and uneconomic. In Israel they are killed and re-queened every year. When beekeepers manipulate combs many bees are crushed and killed. Hives have smoke puffed into them to calm bees down and make them easier to handle. Special excluders or devices that violate the bees' space are attached to hives to collect bee products from bees as they enter hives. Bees are separated from their hives by being shaken vigorously or jetted out with powerful streams of air. They may have their legs and wings clipped off. Clipping the wings of queen bees prevents them from swarming (flying off!). during the commercial production of silk, only enough adult moths are allowed to emerge to ensure continuation of the species. Most of the remainder of the silkworms are killed by heat, e.g. immersion in boiling water, steaming or drying in an oven. The amount of useable silk from each cocoon is small. One hectare of mulberry trees yields 11.25 tonnes of leaves, producing around 200kg of cocoons, but just 40kg of raw silk. The silk yield is many times smaller than this in countries such as Thailand, where the silk is reeled by hand rather than by machine. So it takes hundreds of tiny lives to produce just one silk scarf or tie The Valley Vegan..............jo <jo.heartwork > wrote: They consider eggs, honey and silk vegetarian because they do not involve killing the animal. Shellac does involve killing the insects, therefore it is not vegetarian. Jo - Peter VV Wednesday, August 22, 2007 8:20 PM Re: Shellac Well what do you expect? no doubt they consider eggs, honey, silk etc vegetarian also..... The Valley Vegan.............jo <jo.heartwork > wrote: I wrote the Vegetarian Society asking why they considered shellac to besuitable for vegetarians, and the answer is below. They are ratherconveniently believing that none of the insects get killed! What annoys meis that because they think it is okay, Tesco and other places put shellaconto things like chocolate raisins and label them alright for vegetarians.Jo"The Society has done extensive research into the production of shellac andcan confirm that the Society does consider it to be vegetarian.It is produced by the Lac insect, Laccifer Lacca (Kerr), which like otherscale insects of the super family Coccoidea, is naturally parasitic oncertain trees and shrubs. In the larval stage the insect is about 0.5mm inlength and sufficiently mobile to crawl on branches where it fixes it’sposition. The insect inserts its proboscis into the branch to secure itselfthen secretes a protective coating of dark red chilinous scale and a resincalled Lac.The resin is mainly produced by the female who produces a resin to cocooneggs that she lays. The female then dies naturally. When the newly hatchedinsects leave the cocoon it is then harvested to produce shellac.Doubtless some insects will die in the harvesting process, but it is in theinterests of the farmers to ensure that there are as few as possible insectscontaminating the product as the purification process, which ensures thereare no traces of insects whatsoever in the final porduct, is costly. If anyinsects die they do so "accidentally" - ie it is not part of the necessaryprocess to produce shellac. You can contrast this with the wilful slaughterof millions of insects by pesticides used on the huge majority of vegetable,grain and pulse crops - ie the wheat farmer wants to kill insects, whereasthe shellac farmer doesn't. Also, there are no traces of insects in shellac,unlike in many other products, such as bread and chocolate.Chris OlivantInformation and Customer Services ManagerThe Vegetarian SocietyDirect line: 0161 925 2022Web site: www.vegsoc.org Peter H Answers - Get better answers from someone who knows. Try it now. Peter H For ideas on reducing your carbon footprint visit For Good this month. Peter H For ideas on reducing your carbon footprint visit For Good this month. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 23, 2007 Report Share Posted August 23, 2007 I do agree with you. I was just surprised about shellac, because I thought it had never been considered vegetarian. Other groups live Viva doln't consider it to be so. As you say most of the recipes from the Vegetarian Society are based on eggs, milk, cheese and cream. It seems a bit of a waste of time. I'm sure if there were more vegan recipes included it would help people rely less and less on the dairy. Jo - Peter VV Thursday, August 23, 2007 8:20 PM Re: Shellac I just think ( imo) that the vegetarian society is a bit of a white elephant that constatntly sits on the sidelines instead of putting its heart on its sleeve. Of course bees die, of course silk worms die for their produce, they should admit these things. A large percentage of their recipes involve dairy and eggs, they would be better off producing pure vegetarian recipes and considering animal suffering more. Just my opinion tis all............ The Valley Vegan.............jo <jo.heartwork wrote: Quite possibly. I'm not arguing for honey or silk, as I don't use either. The definition of a vegetarian is that they don't eat anything involving the slaughter of an animal - that is their only criteria. I just feel that with shellac there is definitely slaughter involved and therefore disagree with their definition that it is suitable for vegetarians. If they said it wasn't suitable maybe more vegetarians would avoid it. Jo - Peter VV Thursday, August 23, 2007 8:44 AM Re: Shellac doesnt honey and silk involve killing the insects involved? bees undergo treatments similar to those endured by other farmed animals. They go through routine examination and handling, artificial feeding regimes, drug and pesticide treatment, genetic manipulation, artificial insemination, transportation (by air, rail and road) and slaughter. Queen bees are artificially inseminated with sperm obtained from decapitated bees. Queens are systematically slaughtered every two years because over time their egg producing abilities decline so their whole hive becomes unproductive and uneconomic. In Israel they are killed and re-queened every year. When beekeepers manipulate combs many bees are crushed and killed. Hives have smoke puffed into them to calm bees down and make them easier to handle. Special excluders or devices that violate the bees' space are attached to hives to collect bee products from bees as they enter hives. Bees are separated from their hives by being shaken vigorously or jetted out with powerful streams of air. They may have their legs and wings clipped off. Clipping the wings of queen bees prevents them from swarming (flying off!). during the commercial production of silk, only enough adult moths are allowed to emerge to ensure continuation of the species. Most of the remainder of the silkworms are killed by heat, e.g. immersion in boiling water, steaming or drying in an oven. The amount of useable silk from each cocoon is small. One hectare of mulberry trees yields 11.25 tonnes of leaves, producing around 200kg of cocoons, but just 40kg of raw silk. The silk yield is many times smaller than this in countries such as Thailand, where the silk is reeled by hand rather than by machine. So it takes hundreds of tiny lives to produce just one silk scarf or tie The Valley Vegan..............jo <jo.heartwork > wrote: They consider eggs, honey and silk vegetarian because they do not involve killing the animal. Shellac does involve killing the insects, therefore it is not vegetarian. Jo - Peter VV Wednesday, August 22, 2007 8:20 PM Re: Shellac Well what do you expect? no doubt they consider eggs, honey, silk etc vegetarian also..... The Valley Vegan.............jo <jo.heartwork > wrote: I wrote the Vegetarian Society asking why they considered shellac to besuitable for vegetarians, and the answer is below. They are ratherconveniently believing that none of the insects get killed! What annoys meis that because they think it is okay, Tesco and other places put shellaconto things like chocolate raisins and label them alright for vegetarians.Jo"The Society has done extensive research into the production of shellac andcan confirm that the Society does consider it to be vegetarian.It is produced by the Lac insect, Laccifer Lacca (Kerr), which like otherscale insects of the super family Coccoidea, is naturally parasitic oncertain trees and shrubs. In the larval stage the insect is about 0.5mm inlength and sufficiently mobile to crawl on branches where it fixes it’sposition. The insect inserts its proboscis into the branch to secure itselfthen secretes a protective coating of dark red chilinous scale and a resincalled Lac.The resin is mainly produced by the female who produces a resin to cocooneggs that she lays. The female then dies naturally. When the newly hatchedinsects leave the cocoon it is then harvested to produce shellac.Doubtless some insects will die in the harvesting process, but it is in theinterests of the farmers to ensure that there are as few as possible insectscontaminating the product as the purification process, which ensures thereare no traces of insects whatsoever in the final porduct, is costly. If anyinsects die they do so "accidentally" - ie it is not part of the necessaryprocess to produce shellac. You can contrast this with the wilful slaughterof millions of insects by pesticides used on the huge majority of vegetable,grain and pulse crops - ie the wheat farmer wants to kill insects, whereasthe shellac farmer doesn't. Also, there are no traces of insects in shellac,unlike in many other products, such as bread and chocolate.Chris OlivantInformation and Customer Services ManagerThe Vegetarian SocietyDirect line: 0161 925 2022Web site: www.vegsoc.org Peter H Answers - Get better answers from someone who knows. Try it now. Peter H For ideas on reducing your carbon footprint visit For Good this month. Peter H For ideas on reducing your carbon footprint visit For Good this month. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.