Guest guest Posted September 14, 2007 Report Share Posted September 14, 2007 Hi everyone. I became vegan a few months ago when I allowed myself to look at the plight of factory farmed animals. It was worse that I'd expected. For 2 decades I'd been somewhat aware of what was going on but I didn't let it in fully. I've been a healthcare practitioner for a number of years and was tending to recommend plant-based diets to people based on the evidence of its health benefits. Now that I want to be an advocate for animals, I'm feeling more compelled to recommend a plant-based diet. But, I'm uncomfortable knowing what's behind my enthusiasm without disclosing it to my patients. And I'm not sure I'm comfortable disclosing it. I know there are others out there who have grappled with these issues and I would love to find them to talk it over with them. This doesn't seem like the right forum, but perhaps someone can suggest where I might look. I'm aware of the work of PCRM, so that's one place I'm considering contacting, altho' I don't know that they have a forum.... thank you, Marian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 14, 2007 Report Share Posted September 14, 2007 Hi Marian Welcome to Vegan Chat. Please join in as and when you like. Jo - " Marian Blum, L.Ac., DNBAO " <marianb-dated-2115740550.ae89d4 Friday, September 14, 2007 3:20 AM healthcare practitioner forum? > Hi everyone. I became vegan a few months ago when I allowed myself to > look at the plight of factory farmed animals. It was worse that I'd > expected. For 2 decades I'd been somewhat aware of what was going on > but I didn't let it in fully. I've been a healthcare practitioner for a > number of years and was tending to recommend plant-based diets to > people based on the evidence of its health benefits. Now that I want to > be an advocate for animals, I'm feeling more compelled to recommend a > plant-based diet. But, I'm uncomfortable knowing what's behind my > enthusiasm without disclosing it to my patients. And I'm not sure I'm > comfortable disclosing it. I know there are others out there who have > grappled with these issues and I would love to find them to talk it > over with them. This doesn't seem like the right forum, but perhaps > someone can suggest where I might look. I'm aware of the work of PCRM, > so that's one place I'm considering contacting, altho' I don't know > that they have a forum.... > thank you, > Marian > > > > To send an email to - > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 14, 2007 Report Share Posted September 14, 2007 Hi, Marian! I think it's great that you became vegan because you care about animals. I don't know if this helps or not, but ... setting aside the animal aspect of it for a minute, vegetarianism (and, of course, veganism) is an incredibly healthy way of life. And from a health-care perspective, your patients are paying you to make and keep them healthy. So while you went vegan for animal-ethics reasons (as did I and many in this group), you're also substantially benefiting from the positive health aspects of veganism. And I think it's your responsibility to share your knowledge of the health aspects with your patients. As I'm sure you know, being vegetarian or vegan (assuming one eats healthy foods -- technically one can be vegetarian and eat nothing but M & M's, but you know what I'm saying) lowers blood pressure, reduces chances of cardiovascular problems & some types of cancers, lowers cholesterol, helps in losing weight, etc. I've even read of a study in which people with diabetes were able to reduce or eliminate their need for medication when they switched to a vegan diet. And the health benefits aren't only discussed by animal-rights people. The American Cancer Society touts a vegetarian diet, as does the American Dietic Association. What I'm getting at is that even if you don't tell your patients why you became vegan (for animal reasons), you can steer them to become vegetarian or vegan to benefit their health. And I don't see anything unethical about that at all. Bottom line: You're going to be giving them advice that will make them healthier. And that's why they're coming to you. And if you want to throw in, "A vegetarian or a vegan diet will greatly improve your health. Plus, you'll also be helping animals," I don't see anything wrong with that either. But obviously the focus should be on the patients' health. I hoped that helped a little. Tracy"Marian Blum, L.Ac., DNBAO" <marianb-dated-2115740550.ae89d4 wrote: Hi everyone. I became vegan a few months ago when I allowed myself to look at the plight of factory farmed animals. It was worse that I'd expected. For 2 decades I'd been somewhat aware of what was going on but I didn't let it in fully. I've been a healthcare practitioner for a number of years and was tending to recommend plant-based diets to people based on the evidence of its health benefits. Now that I want to be an advocate for animals, I'm feeling more compelled to recommend a plant-based diet. But, I'm uncomfortable knowing what's behind my enthusiasm without disclosing it to my patients. And I'm not sure I'm comfortable disclosing it. I know there are others out there who have grappled with these issues and I would love to find them to talk it over with them. This doesn't seem like the right forum, but perhaps someone can suggest where I might look. I'm aware of the work of PCRM, so that's one place I'm considering contacting, altho' I don't know that they have a forum....thank you,Marian Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who knows. Answers - Check it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 14, 2007 Report Share Posted September 14, 2007 Hi Marian, and welcome to the group, you can discuss anything on here, most of us are concerned with animal welfare. The Valley Vegan............. Peter H "Marian Blum, L.Ac., DNBAO" <marianb-dated-2115740550.ae89d4 Sent: Friday, 14 September, 2007 3:20:38 AM healthcare practitioner forum? Hi everyone. I became vegan a few months ago when I allowed myself to look at the plight of factory farmed animals. It was worse that I'd expected. For 2 decades I'd been somewhat aware of what was going on but I didn't let it in fully. I've been a healthcare practitioner for a number of years and was tending to recommend plant-based diets to people based on the evidence of its health benefits. Now that I want to be an advocate for animals, I'm feeling more compelled to recommend a plant-based diet. But, I'm uncomfortable knowing what's behind my enthusiasm without disclosing it to my patients. And I'm not sure I'm comfortable disclosing it. I know there are others out there who have grappled with these issues and I would love to find them to talk it over with them. This doesn't seem like the right forum, but perhaps someone can suggest where I might look. I'm aware of the work of PCRM, so that's one place I'm considering contacting, altho' I don't know that they have a forum....thank you,Marian For ideas on reducing your carbon footprint visit For Good this month. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 14, 2007 Report Share Posted September 14, 2007 Hi Tracy and others who responded to my post, thank you for welcoming me. I am aware that a vegetarian diet is a healthier diet and it is recommended by some institutions. It's great to see. I think my difficulty is just with knowing that I'm recommending the diet for reasons other than health, as well, and how will I interact with my clients about this. I think I just need to think this through a few times until I find exactly what I'm comfortable with .... I appreciate all the support, Tracy. You probably know about T. Colin Campbell's book: The China Study. It provides a lot of support for a vegan diet. As do Neal Barnard's books. He wrote a great new book on diabetes and food choices. Marian , " Tracy H. " <denise_h22 wrote: > > Hi, Marian! > > I think it's great that you became vegan because you care about animals. > > I don't know if this helps or not, but ... setting aside the animal aspect of it for a minute, vegetarianism (and, of course, veganism) is an incredibly healthy way of life. ....... >I hoped that helped a little. > > Tracy > > " Marian Blum, L.Ac., DNBAO " wrote: > Hi everyone. I became vegan a few months ago... > grappled with these issues and I would love to find them to talk it > over with them. This doesn't seem like the right forum, but perhaps > someone can suggest where I might look. I'm aware of the work of PCRM, so that's one place I'm considering contacting, altho' I don't know that they have a forum.... > thank you, > Marian > Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who knows. > Answers - Check it out. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 15, 2007 Report Share Posted September 15, 2007 The evidence for the health benefits is so solid that you can feel comfortable advocating it to everyone. I'd think that bringing up your concerns for animals **as part of your practice** would be inappropriate unless it's directly related to your patient's health. If the patient initiates the conversation, then it's fine. Or if you change your pharmacopeia to leave out animal parts, for instance, your patients might be interested to know why the formulas have changed. Perhaps you can introduce your concern for animals by doing a couple things, sort of indirectly -- 1 -- put up posters of animals in your office (cute ones, not gory ones, needless to say). Or have publications such as Best Friends or other " gentle " animal advocacy organizations in your waiting room or reception area. That way, patients who are also interested in these kinds of issues will get the idea that it's ok to chat about these topics with you (if there's chat time involved), and people who have not yet made the connection will not feel threatened. 2 -- find veg*n groups in your area that need speakers, and volunteer to talk about...whatever you're comfortable talking about (vegan nutrition, acupuncture, specific health concerns, the plight of factory farmed animals). If you're concerned about alienating patients who have not made the connection between food and animals, this could be one way to get a new stream of patients. Most veg*ns would be delighted to know there's a veg*n practitioner in their midst. Outside your office, you could volunteer at your local animal sanctuary (Farm Sanctuary has a couple sites, and there are many other animal-rescue sanctuaries around the country) to find like-minded people. At 2:20 AM +0000 9/14/07, Marian Blum, L.Ac., DNBAO wrote: >Hi everyone. I became vegan a few months ago when I allowed myself to >look at the plight of factory farmed animals. It was worse that I'd >expected. For 2 decades I'd been somewhat aware of what was going on >but I didn't let it in fully. I've been a healthcare practitioner for a >number of years and was tending to recommend plant-based diets to >people based on the evidence of its health benefits. Now that I want to >be an advocate for animals, I'm feeling more compelled to recommend a >plant-based diet. But, I'm uncomfortable knowing what's behind my >enthusiasm without disclosing it to my patients. And I'm not sure I'm >comfortable disclosing it. I know there are others out there who have >grappled with these issues and I would love to find them to talk it >over with them. This doesn't seem like the right forum, but perhaps >someone can suggest where I might look. I'm aware of the work of PCRM, >so that's one place I'm considering contacting, altho' I don't know >that they have a forum.... >thank you, >Marian > > > >To send an email to - > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 15, 2007 Report Share Posted September 15, 2007 That's the good thing about veganism - you can advocate for all reasons or for one alone. You never have to mention the benefits to animals, or the environment, if it doesn't seem appropriate. Jo - <yarrow Saturday, September 15, 2007 12:11 AM Re: healthcare practitioner forum? > The evidence for the health benefits is so solid that you can feel > comfortable advocating it to everyone. I'd think that bringing up > your concerns for animals **as part of your practice** would be > inappropriate unless it's directly related to your patient's health. > If the patient initiates the conversation, then it's fine. Or if you > change your pharmacopeia to leave out animal parts, for instance, > your patients might be interested to know why the formulas have > changed. > > Perhaps you can introduce your concern for animals by doing a couple > things, sort of indirectly -- > > 1 -- put up posters of animals in your office (cute ones, not gory > ones, needless to say). Or have publications such as Best Friends or > other " gentle " animal advocacy organizations in your waiting room or > reception area. That way, patients who are also interested in these > kinds of issues will get the idea that it's ok to chat about these > topics with you (if there's chat time involved), and people who have > not yet made the connection will not feel threatened. > > 2 -- find veg*n groups in your area that need speakers, and volunteer > to talk about...whatever you're comfortable talking about (vegan > nutrition, acupuncture, specific health concerns, the plight of > factory farmed animals). If you're concerned about alienating > patients who have not made the connection between food and animals, > this could be one way to get a new stream of patients. Most veg*ns > would be delighted to know there's a veg*n practitioner in their > midst. > > Outside your office, you could volunteer at your local animal > sanctuary (Farm Sanctuary has a couple sites, and there are many > other animal-rescue sanctuaries around the country) to find > like-minded people. > > > At 2:20 AM +0000 9/14/07, Marian Blum, L.Ac., DNBAO wrote: > >Hi everyone. I became vegan a few months ago when I allowed myself to > >look at the plight of factory farmed animals. It was worse that I'd > >expected. For 2 decades I'd been somewhat aware of what was going on > >but I didn't let it in fully. I've been a healthcare practitioner for a > >number of years and was tending to recommend plant-based diets to > >people based on the evidence of its health benefits. Now that I want to > >be an advocate for animals, I'm feeling more compelled to recommend a > >plant-based diet. But, I'm uncomfortable knowing what's behind my > >enthusiasm without disclosing it to my patients. And I'm not sure I'm > >comfortable disclosing it. I know there are others out there who have > >grappled with these issues and I would love to find them to talk it > >over with them. This doesn't seem like the right forum, but perhaps > >someone can suggest where I might look. I'm aware of the work of PCRM, > >so that's one place I'm considering contacting, altho' I don't know > >that they have a forum.... > >thank you, > >Marian > > > > > > > >To send an email to - > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 15, 2007 Report Share Posted September 15, 2007 Lots of good suggestions--thank-you, Yarrow. I agree that it wouldn't be right to bring up animal rights to patients. I even think I need to be very judicious in how I respond to folks who ask questions. Many people don't realize where their curiosity is leading. In a way, I'm proud and happy to disclose my deepest motivations for recommending veganism. I think there's ample evidence that a whole foods plant-based diet is optimum but I don't think there's much evidence to recommend strict veganism. And I've seen people discredit vegan nutritional advice if it comes from animal advocates. I think science doesn't exist 'in a vacuum.' Research is performed in a political and cultural environment and researchers have biases that are often reflected in what they choose to look at.... So, I am considering disclosing my 'bias' on my website: " while I came to this diet via health concerns, I have since learned of the plight of farm animals and now feel that that is the strongest reason to maintain a vegan diet... " or something like that. So, no one can accuse me of hiding my real 'agenda.' I would link on my site to all the great books and websites of MDs and PhDs who have written about veg*n nutrition and health. In my clinic, I would not bring up my bias at all. I can talk a little about veg*n nutrition when it's important to someone's condition (in so many cases!) and just refer them to the website. As with any delicate topic, it's great to have other 'experts' to whom we can refer people. How does that sound? I suppose I could also just leave out the disclosure of my bias. Let people think what they will. Or ask me. I think one reason I 'opened my eyes' to animal rights recently is that I am more willing now to be judged or shunned than I used to be. I realize it's important to allow others their opinions of me without my having to defend myself. My dog is the 'receptionist' in my waiting room so there's plenty of animal talk. I plan to wear a vegan t-shirt to the next local animal shelter fundraiser. I also have a leafletting date set up at a college. I'm nervous about all that but I think it's important to do for the animals. By the way, I haven't ever used animal products in my formulas due to endangered species, horrific practices, etc. Marian , yarrow wrote: > > The evidence for the health benefits is so solid that you can feel > comfortable advocating it to everyone. I'd think that bringing up > your concerns for animals **as part of your practice** would be > inappropriate unless it's directly related to your patient's health. > If the patient initiates the conversation, then it's fine. Or if you > change your pharmacopeia to leave out animal parts, for instance, > your patients might be interested to know why the formulas have > changed. > > Perhaps you can introduce your concern for animals by doing a couple > things, sort of indirectly -- > > 1 -- put up posters of animals in your office (cute ones, not gory > ones, needless to say). Or have publications such as Best Friends or > other " gentle " animal advocacy organizations in your waiting room or > reception area. That way, patients who are also interested in these > kinds of issues will get the idea that it's ok to chat about these > topics with you (if there's chat time involved), and people who have > not yet made the connection will not feel threatened. > > 2 -- find veg*n groups in your area that need speakers, and volunteer > to talk about...whatever you're comfortable talking about (vegan > nutrition, acupuncture, specific health concerns, the plight of > factory farmed animals). If you're concerned about alienating > patients who have not made the connection between food and animals, > this could be one way to get a new stream of patients. Most veg*ns > would be delighted to know there's a veg*n practitioner in their > midst. > > Outside your office, you could volunteer at your local animal > sanctuary (Farm Sanctuary has a couple sites, and there are many > other animal-rescue sanctuaries around the country) to find > like-minded people. > > > At 2:20 AM +0000 9/14/07, Marian Blum, L.Ac., DNBAO wrote: > >Hi everyone. I became vegan a few months ago when I allowed myself to > >look at the plight of factory farmed animals. It was worse that I'd > >expected. For 2 decades I'd been somewhat aware of what was going on > >but I didn't let it in fully. I've been a healthcare practitioner for a > >number of years and was tending to recommend plant-based diets to > >people based on the evidence of its health benefits. Now that I want to > >be an advocate for animals, I'm feeling more compelled to recommend a > >plant-based diet. But, I'm uncomfortable knowing what's behind my > >enthusiasm without disclosing it to my patients. And I'm not sure I'm > >comfortable disclosing it. I know there are others out there who have > >grappled with these issues and I would love to find them to talk it > >over with them. This doesn't seem like the right forum, but perhaps > >someone can suggest where I might look. I'm aware of the work of PCRM, > >so that's one place I'm considering contacting, altho' I don't know > >that they have a forum.... > >thank you, > >Marian > > > > > > > >To send an email to - > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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