Guest guest Posted June 29, 2002 Report Share Posted June 29, 2002 Hi Werner There was a ruling to say that it was illegal to recite the pledge in schools because of the the reference 'under God'. I am not very knowledgeable about this, but maybe Fraggle could explain more. Jo Hi Jo, I must have missed something. What's that about a pledge ruling? Werner. ---- Thursday, June 27, 2002 8:20:16 AM Pledge Hi What do the Americans on this list think about the Pledge ruling? Do you think it will be overturned? Jo ---Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.372 / Virus Database: 207 - Release 20/06/02 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 30, 2002 Report Share Posted June 30, 2002 Hi Jo, I finally found the story on my MSN homepage and read all about it. I still think we ought to go back to the original pledge and forget about all those added in words. Werner. ---- Saturday, June 29, 2002 3:48:44 PM Re: Pledge Hi Werner There was a ruling to say that it was illegal to recite the pledge in schools because of the the reference 'under God'. I am not very knowledgeable about this, but maybe Fraggle could explain more. ---- Thursday, June 27, 2002 8:20:16 AM Pledge Hi What do the Americans on this list think about the Pledge ruling? Do you think it will be overturned? Jo ---Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.372 / Virus Database: 207 - Release 20/06/02To send an email to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 30, 2002 Report Share Posted June 30, 2002 at least 9 states here have laws that state the " pledge of allegience " miust be stated every morning in skool. i pledge allegience to the flag of the united states of america and to the republic for which it stands one nation under god with liberty and justice for all and, a judge said " nooo " because of the under god part and then there was a such an uproar, that he reversed himself... personnaly, its all shite...lil kids have no concept of the words they are saying, esepcially under rote like that and, all the politocos were yelling about destoying our traditions and how the founding fathers were rolling over in their graves.. the pledge was originally written by a socialist and said " i pledge...to MY flag.. " , and it was written in the 1890's....1892 i believe the under god part was added in 1954 during the height of the McCarthyism witch trials...apparanatly they thought godless communists would melt if they said " under god " cheers fraggle " Heartwork " <Heartwork wrote: >Hi Werner > >There was a ruling to say that it was illegal to recite the pledge in schools because of the the reference 'under God'. > >I am not very knowledgeable about this, but maybe Fraggle could explain more. > >Jo > > > > > > Hi Jo, > I must have missed something. What's that about a pledge ruling? > Werner. > > ---- > > > Thursday, June 27, 2002 8:20:16 AM > > Pledge > > Hi > > What do the Americans on this list think about the Pledge ruling? Do you think it will be overturned? > > Jo > > > > > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.372 / Virus Database: 207 - Release 20/06/02 > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 2, 2002 Report Share Posted July 2, 2002 in high school i stopped saying the pledge because of the " under god " part....i stood in repect for our country...but that's it.... i don't believe in god...but i do believe in freedom of religion...i shouldn't be forced to say it if i don't feel it...they should def. change it back.... casey --- EBbrewpunx wrote: > at least 9 states here have laws that state the > " pledge of allegience " miust be stated every morning > in skool. > i pledge allegience > to the flag > of the united states of america > and to the republic > for which it stands > one nation > under god > with liberty > and justice > for all > > and, a judge said " nooo " because of the under god > part > and then there was a such an uproar, that he > reversed himself... > > personnaly, its all shite...lil kids have no concept > of the words they are saying, esepcially under rote > like that > and, all the politocos were yelling about destoying > our traditions and how the founding fathers were > rolling over in their graves.. > the pledge was originally written by a socialist and > said " i pledge...to MY flag.. " , and it was written > in the 1890's....1892 i believe > the under god part was added in 1954 during the > height of the McCarthyism witch trials...apparanatly > they thought godless communists would melt if they > said " under god " > cheers > fraggle > > " Heartwork " <Heartwork wrote: > > >Hi Werner > > > >There was a ruling to say that it was illegal to > recite the pledge in schools because of the the > reference 'under God'. > > > >I am not very knowledgeable about this, but maybe > Fraggle could explain more. > > > >Jo > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Jo, > > I must have missed something. What's that > about a pledge ruling? > > Werner. > > > > ---- > > > > > > Thursday, June 27, 2002 8:20:16 AM > > > > Pledge > > > > Hi > > > > What do the Americans on this list think > about the Pledge ruling? Do you think it will be > overturned? > > > > Jo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- > > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > > Checked by AVG anti-virus system > (http://www.grisoft.com). > > Version: 6.0.372 / Virus Database: 207 - Release > 20/06/02 > > > Sign up for SBC Dial - First Month Free http://sbc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 2, 2002 Report Share Posted July 2, 2002 Same here, actually i stopped saying the entire pledge. I'll pledge myself to what I believe is best, but there are many aspects of the USA which I disagree with, as it doesn't alwasy attain the ideals I respect here's a little poem I wrote about this thing... poem " In God We Trust " sat quietly on the stand Respected Lady Justice held his hand " Which God is this?, and doth it represent all? " asked the plantiff, to the majority's gaffaw The majority feared the trend, what about God used on currency, and it's use within court? They judged the intent, rebellion towards goodness, using the nation's legal system to it's own extort Some of the plaintiff's support felt that very way, and some others felt differently, and were urged in what they could say I am a good person, with honest good intent however I believe in no god, as proof has never been lent I care about all that is good, but am agnostic yet I wish to raise my children with my religious thoughts, but they recite different ideas to my regret Is school not for teaching of logic, math, and history is school not for getting along with others respecting differences while living peacefully Is school to specify what religion to swear to or what political party Is school's purpose to mold our indelible youth to the simple mold of majority God is not a bad thing, this I know is true but God is not everyone's believe, which the Pledge does subtlely construe Religion is for parents to decide, and later, for oneself School is for understanding and compassion, leave religious choice where it belongs... on the shelf I think the biggest problem with this thing is going to be that the majority are going to perceive it as an attack on their beliefs, and a hostile, ill-intentioned action,... and the reaction will be a defense, or a counter-attack, instead of consideration. Jon ........... http://www.geocities.com/holist2002/GMOharms.html actual harms of GMO foods, and how to avoid them http://home.talkcity.com/DharmaDr/peacefreed/morepeacefuldiet.html how to reduce the harm of your diet (even for us vegans) - " casey thompson " <veganmunkee Monday, July 01, 2002 9:44 PM Re: Pledge > in high school i stopped saying the pledge because of > the " under god " part....i stood in repect for our > country...but that's it.... > i don't believe in god...but i do believe in freedom > of religion...i shouldn't be forced to say it if i > don't feel it...they should def. change it back.... > > casey > > --- EBbrewpunx wrote: > > at least 9 states here have laws that state the > > " pledge of allegience " miust be stated every morning > > in skool. > > i pledge allegience > > to the flag > > of the united states of america > > and to the republic > > for which it stands > > one nation > > under god > > with liberty > > and justice > > for all > > > > and, a judge said " nooo " because of the under god > > part > > and then there was a such an uproar, that he > > reversed himself... > > > > personnaly, its all shite...lil kids have no concept > > of the words they are saying, esepcially under rote > > like that > > and, all the politocos were yelling about destoying > > our traditions and how the founding fathers were > > rolling over in their graves.. > > the pledge was originally written by a socialist and > > said " i pledge...to MY flag.. " , and it was written > > in the 1890's....1892 i believe > > the under god part was added in 1954 during the > > height of the McCarthyism witch trials...apparanatly > > they thought godless communists would melt if they > > said " under god " > > cheers > > fraggle > > > > " Heartwork " <Heartwork wrote: > > > > >Hi Werner > > > > > >There was a ruling to say that it was illegal to > > recite the pledge in schools because of the the > > reference 'under God'. > > > > > >I am not very knowledgeable about this, but maybe > > Fraggle could explain more. > > > > > >Jo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Jo, > > > I must have missed something. What's that > > about a pledge ruling? > > > Werner. > > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > > > Thursday, June 27, 2002 8:20:16 AM > > > > > > Pledge > > > > > > Hi > > > > > > What do the Americans on this list think > > about the Pledge ruling? Do you think it will be > > overturned? > > > > > > Jo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- > > > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > > > Checked by AVG anti-virus system > > (http://www.grisoft.com). > > > Version: 6.0.372 / Virus Database: 207 - Release > > 20/06/02 > > > > > > > > > > Sign up for SBC Dial - First Month Free > http://sbc. > > To send an email to - > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 2, 2002 Report Share Posted July 2, 2002 The way the pledge was written originally .... "I pledge allegiance to my flag and the republic for which it stands, one nation indivisible, with liberty and justice for all." The original Pledge of Allegiance --- meant as an expression of patriotism, not religious faith --- also made no mention of God. The pledge was written in 1892 by the socialist Francis Bellamy, a cousin of the famous radical writer Edward Bellamy. He devised it for the popular magazine "Youth's Companion" on the occasion of the nation's first celebration of Columbus Day. Its wording omitted reference not only to God but also, interestingly, to "the United States". Werner. ---- Monday, July 01, 2002 8:44:09 PM Re: Pledge in high school i stopped saying the pledge because ofthe "under god" part....i stood in repect for ourcountry...but that's it....i don't believe in god...but i do believe in freedomof religion...i shouldn't be forced to say it if idon't feel it...they should def. change it back.... casey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 2, 2002 Report Share Posted July 2, 2002 never gonna happen with the current uproar, the republicans and religious right are gonna make sure that most " conservative " judges get pushed to the bench fraggle casey thompson <veganmunkee wrote: >in high school i stopped saying the pledge because of >the " under god " part....i stood in repect for our >country...but that's it.... >i don't believe in god...but i do believe in freedom >of religion...i shouldn't be forced to say it if i >don't feel it...they should def. change it back.... > > casey > >--- EBbrewpunx wrote: >> at least 9 states here have laws that state the >> " pledge of allegience " miust be stated every morning >> in skool. >> i pledge allegience >> to the flag >> of the united states of america >> and to the republic >> for which it stands >> one nation >> under god >> with liberty >> and justice >> for all >> >> and, a judge said " nooo " because of the under god >> part >> and then there was a such an uproar, that he >> reversed himself... >> >> personnaly, its all shite...lil kids have no concept >> of the words they are saying, esepcially under rote >> like that >> and, all the politocos were yelling about destoying >> our traditions and how the founding fathers were >> rolling over in their graves.. >> the pledge was originally written by a socialist and >> said " i pledge...to MY flag.. " , and it was written >> in the 1890's....1892 i believe >> the under god part was added in 1954 during the >> height of the McCarthyism witch trials...apparanatly >> they thought godless communists would melt if they >> said " under god " >> cheers >> fraggle >> >> " Heartwork " <Heartwork wrote: >> >> >Hi Werner >> > >> >There was a ruling to say that it was illegal to >> recite the pledge in schools because of the the >> reference 'under God'. >> > >> >I am not very knowledgeable about this, but maybe >> Fraggle could explain more. >> > >> >Jo >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > Hi Jo, >> > I must have missed something. What's that >> about a pledge ruling? >> > Werner. >> > >> > ---- >> > >> > >> > Thursday, June 27, 2002 8:20:16 AM >> > >> > Pledge >> > >> > Hi >> > >> > What do the Americans on this list think >> about the Pledge ruling? Do you think it will be >> overturned? >> > >> > Jo >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > --- >> > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. >> > Checked by AVG anti-virus system >> (http://www.grisoft.com). >> > Version: 6.0.372 / Virus Database: 207 - Release >> 20/06/02 >> > >> > > > > >Sign up for SBC Dial - First Month Free >http://sbc. > >To send an email to - > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 2, 2002 Report Share Posted July 2, 2002 Hi Werner > "I pledge allegiance to my flag and the republic for which it stands, one nation indivisible, with liberty and justice for all." That's very interesting. In fact, it sounds almost like a Communist (in the true sense of the word) ideal! BB Peter ---Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.372 / Virus Database: 207 - Release 20/06/02 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 2, 2002 Report Share Posted July 2, 2002 Jon Clever you - I like your poem. Jo - <resppect Tuesday, July 02, 2002 3:48 AM Re: Pledge > Same here, actually i stopped saying the entire pledge. I'll pledge myself > to what I believe is best, but there are many aspects of the USA which I > disagree with, as it doesn't alwasy attain the ideals I respect > > here's a little poem I wrote about this thing... > > poem > > " In God We Trust " sat quietly on the stand > Respected Lady Justice held his hand > > " Which God is this?, and doth it represent all? " > asked the plantiff, to the majority's gaffaw > > The majority feared the trend, > what about God used on currency, and it's use within court? > They judged the intent, > rebellion towards goodness, using the nation's legal system to it's own > extort > > Some of the plaintiff's support felt that very way, > and some others felt differently, and were urged in what they could say > > I am a good person, with honest good intent > however I believe in no god, as proof has never been lent > I care about all that is good, but am agnostic yet > I wish to raise my children with my religious thoughts, but they recite > different ideas to my regret > > Is school not for teaching > of logic, math, and history > is school not for getting along with others > respecting differences while living peacefully > > Is school to specify what religion to swear to > or what political party > Is school's purpose to mold our indelible youth > to the simple mold of majority > > God is not a bad thing, this I know is true > but God is not everyone's believe, which the Pledge does subtlely construe > > Religion is for parents to decide, and later, for oneself > School is for understanding and compassion, leave religious choice where it > belongs... on the shelf > > > > I think the biggest problem with this thing is going to be that the majority > are going to perceive it as an attack on their beliefs, and a hostile, > ill-intentioned action,... and the reaction will be a defense, or a > counter-attack, instead of consideration. > > > Jon > > .......... > http://www.geocities.com/holist2002/GMOharms.html > actual harms of GMO foods, and how to avoid them > http://home.talkcity.com/DharmaDr/peacefreed/morepeacefuldiet.html > how to reduce the harm of your diet (even for us vegans) > > > > > - > " casey thompson " <veganmunkee > > Monday, July 01, 2002 9:44 PM > Re: Pledge > > > > in high school i stopped saying the pledge because of > > the " under god " part....i stood in repect for our > > country...but that's it.... > > i don't believe in god...but i do believe in freedom > > of religion...i shouldn't be forced to say it if i > > don't feel it...they should def. change it back.... > > > > casey > > > > --- EBbrewpunx wrote: > > > at least 9 states here have laws that state the > > > " pledge of allegience " miust be stated every morning > > > in skool. > > > i pledge allegience > > > to the flag > > > of the united states of america > > > and to the republic > > > for which it stands > > > one nation > > > under god > > > with liberty > > > and justice > > > for all > > > > > > and, a judge said " nooo " because of the under god > > > part > > > and then there was a such an uproar, that he > > > reversed himself... > > > > > > personnaly, its all shite...lil kids have no concept > > > of the words they are saying, esepcially under rote > > > like that > > > and, all the politocos were yelling about destoying > > > our traditions and how the founding fathers were > > > rolling over in their graves.. > > > the pledge was originally written by a socialist and > > > said " i pledge...to MY flag.. " , and it was written > > > in the 1890's....1892 i believe > > > the under god part was added in 1954 during the > > > height of the McCarthyism witch trials...apparanatly > > > they thought godless communists would melt if they > > > said " under god " > > > cheers > > > fraggle > > > > > > " Heartwork " <Heartwork wrote: > > > > > > >Hi Werner > > > > > > > >There was a ruling to say that it was illegal to > > > recite the pledge in schools because of the the > > > reference 'under God'. > > > > > > > >I am not very knowledgeable about this, but maybe > > > Fraggle could explain more. > > > > > > > >Jo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Jo, > > > > I must have missed something. What's that > > > about a pledge ruling? > > > > Werner. > > > > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > > > > > > Thursday, June 27, 2002 8:20:16 AM > > > > > > > > Pledge > > > > > > > > Hi > > > > > > > > What do the Americans on this list think > > > about the Pledge ruling? Do you think it will be > > > overturned? > > > > > > > > Jo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- > > > > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > > > > Checked by AVG anti-virus system > > > (http://www.grisoft.com). > > > > Version: 6.0.372 / Virus Database: 207 - Release > > > 20/06/02 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sign up for SBC Dial - First Month Free > > http://sbc. > > > > To send an email to - > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 2, 2002 Report Share Posted July 2, 2002 Hi Peter, that's why other words were added. The original pledge could be said by anyone and they could've been thinking of their own flag and their own country. Why not? Werner. ---- Tuesday, July 02, 2002 12:06:01 PM Re: Pledge Hi Werner > "I pledge allegiance to my flag and the republic for which it stands, one nation indivisible, with liberty and justice for all." That's very interesting. In fact, it sounds almost like a Communist (in the true sense of the word) ideal! BB Peter ---Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.372 / Virus Database: 207 - Release 20/06/02To send an email to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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