Menstruation

[Guest guest]

I seldom have time to post or to even read the info on lists,

regrettably, especially a high volume list like this one. But I

happened to look at the recent posts today, and felt I wanted to

comment on this topic with respect to the recent posts about it.

 

I have been raw vegan, fruitarian, Hygienist, for over 13 years. I

too had read about women whose periods had stopped, and I had hoped

it would happen for me too. It took many years, but it did happen.

My periods first lessened in quantity and intensity and discomfort,

the flow became lighter in color as well. It was somewhat gradual,

but there were definite stages.

 

It has been probably 2 or 3 years since my periods stopped. They

became fewer, with a few months in between and then they ceased. I

went off on to cooked foods (still vegan) for a few days to test it,

and sure enough the periods returned, but ceased when I resumed

eating raw.

 

I am no less fertile, in fact, probably much more fertile. We have

been told all our lives that menstruation is a sign of health, and

that menstruation always accompanies ovulation. Among the general

population of SAD eaters, it is usually the case that if a woman's

period stops, something is very wrong, and/or ovulation has ceased.

 

However, in truth, the menstrual flow is a hemorrhage, and is not

natural. It is " normal " , meaning average, since most women

menstruate, but it is a pathological symptom, which goes away

eventually when the body does not need to do it anymore. Ovulation

does not cease. In fact, it becomes very vital, and one becomes very

fertile.

 

When one is raw and the periods stop, there is no such thing as

menopause anymore, since there are no more menses to stop. Fertility

does not stop, and ovulation does not stop, in the healthy woman,

but continues throughout life.

 

In women eating the SAD diet, the phenomeneon of " menopause " occurs

when ovulation stops or is impaired as a consequence of ill health,

which results in damage and/or destruction to thousands or perhaps

millions of ova at a time, and deplete the egg supply. " Science "

recently reversed its statement that all the ova are present at

birth and no more are made throughout one's life, to admitting the

probability that ova are made throughout our lives.

 

Here are a couple of excellent links describing in detail the

natural ovulation cycle when one is raw vegan, and the pathology of

menstruation:

 

http://www.waldorfhomeschoolers.com/menstruation.htm

 

http://www.vegan-straight-edge.org.uk/FOODGYNA.HTM

 

Zsuzsa

[Guest guest]

Mary Ellen here. I just want to say that this is totally awesome and I cannot

wait till my periods stop! For most of my life I have had the periods from hell

and I have noticed that since being a vegan, I have had no more cramps, but now

that I am a raw foodist, I can't wait to see what happens. Menstruation sucks!

Peace, ~*~Mary Ellen~*~

-

southladogs

rawfood

Monday, April 05, 2004 10:38 PM

[Raw Food] Menstruation

 

 

I seldom have time to post or to even read the info on lists,

regrettably, especially a high volume list like this one. But I

happened to look at the recent posts today, and felt I wanted to

comment on this topic with respect to the recent posts about it.

 

I have been raw vegan, fruitarian, Hygienist, for over 13 years. I

too had read about women whose periods had stopped, and I had hoped

it would happen for me too. It took many years, but it did happen.

My periods first lessened in quantity and intensity and discomfort,

the flow became lighter in color as well. It was somewhat gradual,

but there were definite stages.

 

It has been probably 2 or 3 years since my periods stopped. They

became fewer, with a few months in between and then they ceased. I

went off on to cooked foods (still vegan) for a few days to test it,

and sure enough the periods returned, but ceased when I resumed

eating raw.

 

I am no less fertile, in fact, probably much more fertile. We have

been told all our lives that menstruation is a sign of health, and

that menstruation always accompanies ovulation. Among the general

population of SAD eaters, it is usually the case that if a woman's

period stops, something is very wrong, and/or ovulation has ceased.

 

However, in truth, the menstrual flow is a hemorrhage, and is not

natural. It is " normal " , meaning average, since most women

menstruate, but it is a pathological symptom, which goes away

eventually when the body does not need to do it anymore. Ovulation

does not cease. In fact, it becomes very vital, and one becomes very

fertile.

 

When one is raw and the periods stop, there is no such thing as

menopause anymore, since there are no more menses to stop. Fertility

does not stop, and ovulation does not stop, in the healthy woman,

but continues throughout life.

 

In women eating the SAD diet, the phenomeneon of " menopause " occurs

when ovulation stops or is impaired as a consequence of ill health,

which results in damage and/or destruction to thousands or perhaps

millions of ova at a time, and deplete the egg supply. " Science "

recently reversed its statement that all the ova are present at

birth and no more are made throughout one's life, to admitting the

probability that ova are made throughout our lives.

 

Here are a couple of excellent links describing in detail the

natural ovulation cycle when one is raw vegan, and the pathology of

menstruation:

 

http://www.waldorfhomeschoolers.com/menstruation.htm

 

http://www.vegan-straight-edge.org.uk/FOODGYNA.HTM

 

Zsuzsa

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Thanks for sharing! I enjoyed reading the article even though i am a man.

Something a need to share with everyone is that my first born son was bottle

fed with cows milk and was sick all the time when he was young. My second born

daughter was breast fed raw mothers milk and never was sick when she was young.

I had to twist my wifes arm to get her to breast feed my second born.enough for

now

Nicholas Costanza

 

southladogs <southladogs wrote:

I seldom have time to post or to even read the info on lists,

regrettably, especially a high volume list like this one.

menstruation:

 

http://www.waldorfhomeschoolers.com/menstruation.htm

 

http://www.vegan-straight-edge.org.uk/FOODGYNA.HTM

 

Zsuzsa

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

--- southladogs <southladogs wrote:

> I have been raw vegan, fruitarian, Hygienist, for over

> 13 years. I

> too had read about women whose periods had stopped,

> and I had hoped

> it would happen for me too. ..>

> It has been probably 2 or 3 years since my periods

> stopped. They

> became fewer, with a few months in between and then

> they ceased. >

>

>

Hello--

 

I would imagine women who have been raw foodists for

some time have also had a drop in body fat, with a ratio

of more lean muscle mass/less body fat.

 

The cessation of menstruation also happens in female

athletes, eg gymnasts, who have almost no body fat. This

has no relationship to raw diet. There is a

relationship to estrogen and body fat. Also there is

definitely a problem with bone thinning and consequent

injury in female athletes when menstruation stops due to

body fat being too low (less estrogen).

 

Have you had bone denisty tests that are normal when

your periods stop? How are estrogen levels?

 

Just curious

 

 

 

Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway

http://promotions./design_giveaway/

[Guest guest]

rawfood , " C. Hudson " <cremedemoka> wrote:

 

> Hello--

>

> I would imagine women who have been raw foodists for

> some time have also had a drop in body fat, with a ratio

> of more lean muscle mass/less body fat.

 

My body fat dropped when I first went raw, and was low for a while,

yet my periods became regular and " normal " for the first time in my

life. I did a long fast, during which my body repaired my poor

assimilation, and after that I was able to gain weight. I have

plenty of body fat, the right amount for my body, as our bodies on

our natural raw vegan diet strive to keep us at our ideal weight.

 

> The cessation of menstruation also happens in female

> athletes, eg gymnasts, who have almost no body fat. This

> has no relationship to raw diet. There is a

> relationship to estrogen and body fat. Also there is

> definitely a problem with bone thinning and consequent

> injury in female athletes when menstruation stops due to

> body fat being too low (less estrogen).

 

When eating raw vegan, menstruation stops when the body becomes

healthy enough that the body no longer needs it. Menstruation is a

hemorrhaging, and is also a storage and transport medium for toxins

to be eliminated from the body. Although most people in our society

are very unhealthy, women on average live 5 years longer than men,

mainly because women have this avenue of extraordinary elimination

of toxins monthly, that men lack. But it's a great deal of effort on

the part of the body, and the uterine wall is chronically inflamed.

When the toxic load decreases sufficiently, and the body no longer

needs the menses as channels of elimination, the result is permanent

amenorrhea.

 

Actually, in women eating the SAD diet, estrogen levels plummet

during the monthly cycle, such drastic hormonal fluctuation

resulting in the loss of the endometrium which is menstruation.

Bioflavonoids, which are found in raw foods, especially fruits, have

been found to mimic estrogen. These nutrients are stored in the

body, which uses them to stabilize estrogen levels, so in raw

vegans, especially with a diet high in fruit, there is not the yo-yo

effect on estrogen levels as with the SAD diet, hence the gradual

cessation of menstruation. There may be many other substances in raw

fruits and veggies which have the same effect, though they've not

been studied.

 

> Have you had bone denisty tests that are normal when

> your periods stop? How are estrogen levels?

 

I no longer have any interest in " tests " or other medical procedures

that we are brought up to to. I'm afraid medical " science "

hasn't a clue about health. Animals in Nature do not menstruate, yet

they feel no need to have their bone density or their estrogen

levels or anything else " tested " . Focusing on isolated body parts or

processes is meaningless, since the body is a gestalt, and health is

evidenced by the integrity of the whole body.

 

Zsuzsa

[Guest guest]

I nursed my second baby and am currently nursing my 3rd and neither of them have

had even an 1/8th of the health concerns my oldest did. My oldest was on soy

formula, but I know he wasn't nearly as healthy.

 

Nicholas Costanza <jetpostman wrote:Thanks for sharing! I enjoyed

reading the article even though i am a man. Something a need to share with

everyone is that my first born son was bottle fed with cows milk and was sick

all the time when he was young. My second born daughter was breast fed raw

mothers milk and never was sick when she was young. I had to twist my wifes arm

to get her to breast feed my second born.enough for now

Nicholas Costanza

 

southladogs <southladogs wrote:

I seldom have time to post or to even read the info on lists,

regrettably, especially a high volume list like this one.

menstruation:

 

http://www.waldorfhomeschoolers.com/menstruation.htm

 

http://www.vegan-straight-edge.org.uk/FOODGYNA.HTM

 

Zsuzsa

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

--- southladogs <southladogs wrote:

.... We have been told all our lives that menstruation

is a sign o> However, in truth, the menstrual flow is a

hemorrhage,> and is not natural. It is " normal " ,

meaning average, since most> women menstruate, but it is

a pathological symptom >

 

It is not true that menstruation is a hemorrhage. It is

merely the sloghing off of the uterine lining that has

built up in preparation for pregnancy. I agree that it

should not be heavy and disabliing--this could be

pathological and is mostly due to fibroid tumors

(abnormal uterine muscle tissue) or endometrial tissue

growning outside the uterus which do hemorrhage. I also

believe our " civilized " dietary habits are big culprits

in this. Total cessation of menstruation is not the

norm in vegetarians, but it can vastly improve very

heavy periods. Cessation of periods can also occur in

women which is also anecdotal.

 

Ancient literature, folklore, art, etc of nearly all

cultures from Asia, South American, Europe, Asia, North

American Indians are replete with stories and images of

women's monthly cycle. They all understood the 28 day

fertility cycle and also associated it with the moon and

moon goddesses. Was menstruation in these old cultures

associated with the SAD diet?

 

It is also not true that this does not occur in other

primates as the website you provided below states. The

female gorilla has an average 30 day cycle with 3-4 days

of " menstruation " . Surprise, surprise, the gorilla is

the ONLY primate that is not known to be omnivorous, has

never been observed eating meat. It is nearly totally a

vegetarian (not fruitarian) except for the occasional

termites and ants.

 

Orangutans are more nearly fruitarian than any other

primate. But they do occasionally eat meat. They also

have a 30-32 day menstrual cycle with 2-4 days

menstruation.

 

Chimpanzees, baboons, gibbons, and nearly all other

primates hunt and eat meat. Nearly all of them also

have the same primate reproductive cycle as mentioned

above. The " Waldorfhomeschoolers " website is totally

inaccurate in its claims that primates do not

menstruate and that they are all fruitarians. Only the

orangutan is primarily fruitarian and it does eat meat

occasionally. You can do all the web searches you want

to on primate diet and reproduction and it will bear

this out

 

> When one is raw and the periods stop, there is no such

> thing as menopause anymore, since there are no more

menses to> stop. Fertility > does not stop, and

ovulation does not stop, in the> healthy woman, but

continues throughout life.

 

Where are the numbers and studies to back this up?? This

is not always the case. Again, it is just anecdotal and

happens ocasionally, not always. You notice these

websites put a lot of " may " and " can " qualifiers in

there.

 

> Here are a couple of excellent links describing in

> detail the

> natural ovulation cycle when one is raw vegan, and the

> pathology of

> menstruation:

>

> http://www.waldorfhomeschoolers.com/menstruation.htm

>

> http://www.vegan-straight-edge.org.uk/FOODGYNA.HTM

>

> Zsuzsa

 

Again, websites can say whatever they like. It seems

some just state claims without facts and studies to back

them up. Just because you like what they say or would

like to believe what they say is true doesn't make it

so.

 

This is all not to flame anyone or their ideas. I just

can't believe that the majority of women who go to a raw

diet are going to stop menstruating. If you do, it

would behoove you to find out why. It may or may not be

a problem. I would however expect to see an improvement

or lessening in very problematic and heavy periods.

 

It just simply is not the way we evolved no matter what

a certain website may say.

 

Kate

 

 

 

Tax Center - File online by April 15th

http://taxes./filing.html

[Guest guest]

" C. Hudson " wrote:

>

> --- southladogs <southladogs wrote:

 

> > When one is raw and the periods stop, there is no such

> > thing as menopause anymore, since there are no more

> menses to> stop. Fertility > does not stop, and

> ovulation does not stop, in the> healthy woman, but

> continues throughout life.

>

> Where are the numbers and studies to back this up??

 

Menopause by definition means the cessation of menses, so saying that

when menses stop you can't have menopause is nuts.

 

When women who are undernourished and/or underweight stop menstruating,

it's generally, properly considered to be a bad thing. Menstruation is

a normal function of a healthy uterus in women of the proper age-range.

It's the way the uterus keeps the interior lining healthy.

 

When I fast, I stop defecating, but that doesn't mean that defecation is

normally a bad thing. It's not constipation, either. There's nothing

pathological about it - it's a normal, temporary condition.

 

However, when a woman in the prime of life stops menstruating, and it's

because she is observing a strict raw-food diet (and not because she's

pregnant), then I would say that woman is probably underweight and/or

malnourished, and she needs to ~eat more food~ with better attention to

nutrition. She probably should see a doctor. It might be a hormonal

problem.

 

<< WHAT CAUSES PERIODS TO CHANGE OR STOP?

 

Menstrual period changes are usually a symptom of some underlying

physical or hormonal imbalance. Changes in the amount or timing of

hormones released by the thyroid, adrenal and pituitary glands, or

hypothalmus may cause the ovary to delay or skip ovulation. Without

ovulation a period will not occur. However the same changes in hormones

may trigger bleeding at abnormal times (in the middle of a cycle or

several weeks late) or in abnormal amounts (very light or very heavy).

One of the most common causes of anovulation (failure to ovulate) is

body weight. Low body weight may cause a prolonged absence of periods.

Excessive body weight tends to cause abnormal bleeding. Sudden changes

in exercise levels or in body weight may cause temporary changes in

bleeding patterns.

 

Emotional stress and physical illness are also common causes of

menstrual irregularities although the menstrual changes may not occur at

the time of the perceived stress. Prescribed medications and herbal

preparations may also effect menstrual patterns by changing the

interaction and transmission of the body’s natural hormones.

Occasionally the thyroid, pituitary or adrenal gland may malfunction and

produce too little or too much hormone. Abnormal bleeding can also be

caused by physical changes in the uterus or ovaries, such as abnormal

development of tissue in the uterine lining or muscle, or ovarian cysts.

Pregnancy or infection may also cause spotting or bleeding to occur.>>

 

http://www.mckinley.uiuc.edu/health-info/womenhlt/ir-mense.html

 

<< A note about exercise-induced disruption of menstrual periods and

infertility

 

Women with reproductive problems related to excessive exercise may be

able to correct those problems by eating more calories. A 2001 study at

University of Pittsburgh looked at whether amenorrhea and infertility

are caused by exercise stress or expenditure of high levels of energy.

" The findings show that it is energy consumption during exercise that

causes reproductive dysfunction, " said Dr. Judy Cameron, one of the

researchers. When the study created exercise conditions for monkeys that

approximated human marathon training, the animals experienced

reproductive impairments. When they were given more to eat, those

impairments disappeared. It is logical to think the results in humans

would be the same.>>

 

http://www.anred.com/medpsy.html#obex

 

In any case, I don't think women should imagine that menstruation is

abnormal, and that the cessation of menses is a good thing. Menopause

is a mature, middle-aged woman is normal, but menopause in a young woman

is not a good thing.

 

Laura

[Guest guest]

" C. Hudson " wrote:

 

> It is not true that menstruation is a hemorrhage.

 

You can say that again. The anti-woman disgust in such a claim seems

pretty obvious. It's an insult to the entire female sex to class normal

mentrual flow as a " hemorrage " , IMHO.

 

If it's true that it's " normal " and common for women on raw food diet to

stop menstruating, then that is an indictment against the raw food

diet.

 

Laura

[Guest guest]

Do you honestly consider that we were meant to bleed for days every month ?

it does not make sense. Think of yourself out in the wild, foraging,

gathering food for the day - if you bled like most of us do now you would be

a walking advertisement for every predator around for miles. I hope you

could run really fast and climb faster - you would need to.

I think perhaps we were meant to bleed a little, for a day or two -

certainly nothing that needs super maxi, extra long maxi or extra super

super overnight maxis. You know - light days perhaps.

It is not anti-woman in the slightest for me to think that women bleeding

like we do now would have made for a very difficult time for our species to

survive. This is not how we started - of that I am pretty sure.

Hollie

ToolPackinMama [laura]

April 12, 2004 10:46 AM

rawfood

Re: [Raw Food] Menstruation

 

 

" C. Hudson " wrote:

 

> It is not true that menstruation is a hemorrhage.

 

You can say that again. The anti-woman disgust in such a claim seems

pretty obvious. It's an insult to the entire female sex to class normal

mentrual flow as a " hemorrage " , IMHO.

 

If it's true that it's " normal " and common for women on raw food diet to

stop menstruating, then that is an indictment against the raw food

diet.

 

Laura

 

 

 

----------

--

[Guest guest]

Hi Laura,

 

What do you define by low body weight for a woman?

Isn't it normal that women, eating a more natural, raw diet are smaller,

have lower body fat than women on a normal diet?

 

Leo

 

> Menopause by definition means the cessation of menses, so saying that

> when menses stop you can't have menopause is nuts.

>

> When women who are undernourished and/or underweight stop menstruating,

> it's generally, properly considered to be a bad thing. Menstruation is

> a normal function of a healthy uterus in women of the proper age-range.

> It's the way the uterus keeps the interior lining healthy.

>

> When I fast, I stop defecating, but that doesn't mean that defecation is

> normally a bad thing. It's not constipation, either. There's nothing

> pathological about it - it's a normal, temporary condition.

>

> However, when a woman in the prime of life stops menstruating, and it's

> because she is observing a strict raw-food diet (and not because she's

> pregnant), then I would say that woman is probably underweight and/or

> malnourished, and she needs to ~eat more food~ with better attention to

> nutrition. She probably should see a doctor. It might be a hormonal

> problem.

>

> << WHAT CAUSES PERIODS TO CHANGE OR STOP?

>

> Menstrual period changes are usually a symptom of some underlying

> physical or hormonal imbalance. Changes in the amount or timing of

> hormones released by the thyroid, adrenal and pituitary glands, or

> hypothalmus may cause the ovary to delay or skip ovulation. Without

> ovulation a period will not occur. However the same changes in hormones

> may trigger bleeding at abnormal times (in the middle of a cycle or

> several weeks late) or in abnormal amounts (very light or very heavy).

> One of the most common causes of anovulation (failure to ovulate) is

> body weight. Low body weight may cause a prolonged absence of periods.

> Excessive body weight tends to cause abnormal bleeding. Sudden changes

> in exercise levels or in body weight may cause temporary changes in

> bleeding patterns.

>

> Emotional stress and physical illness are also common causes of

> menstrual irregularities although the menstrual changes may not occur at

> the time of the perceived stress. Prescribed medications and herbal

> preparations may also effect menstrual patterns by changing the

> interaction and transmission of the body’s natural hormones.

> Occasionally the thyroid, pituitary or adrenal gland may malfunction and

> produce too little or too much hormone. Abnormal bleeding can also be

> caused by physical changes in the uterus or ovaries, such as abnormal

> development of tissue in the uterine lining or muscle, or ovarian cysts.

> Pregnancy or infection may also cause spotting or bleeding to occur.>>

>

> http://www.mckinley.uiuc.edu/health-info/womenhlt/ir-mense.html

>

> << A note about exercise-induced disruption of menstrual periods and

> infertility

>

> Women with reproductive problems related to excessive exercise may be

> able to correct those problems by eating more calories. A 2001 study at

> University of Pittsburgh looked at whether amenorrhea and infertility

> are caused by exercise stress or expenditure of high levels of energy.

> " The findings show that it is energy consumption during exercise that

> causes reproductive dysfunction, " said Dr. Judy Cameron, one of the

> researchers. When the study created exercise conditions for monkeys that

> approximated human marathon training, the animals experienced

> reproductive impairments. When they were given more to eat, those

> impairments disappeared. It is logical to think the results in humans

> would be the same.>>

>

> http://www.anred.com/medpsy.html#obex

>

> In any case, I don't think women should imagine that menstruation is

> abnormal, and that the cessation of menses is a good thing. Menopause

> is a mature, middle-aged woman is normal, but menopause in a young woman

> is not a good thing.

>

> Laura

>

>

> ------

> *

[Guest guest]

Hollie wrote:

>

> Do you honestly consider that we were meant to bleed for days every month ?

 

Yes.

 

> I think perhaps we were meant to bleed a little, for a day or two

 

Apparently we agree.

[Guest guest]

Ina Warburg wrote:

>

> Hi Laura,

 

Hi, Ina.

>

> What do you define by low body weight for a woman?

 

?

 

> Isn't it normal that women, eating a more natural, raw diet are smaller,

> have lower body fat than women on a normal diet?

 

I suppose so.

[Guest guest]

This is from the perspective of a nursing student, and I'll only preface it with

that. Light periods are what we are meant to have. Now for the record, when I

went vegan, I actually had some of the worst periods I have ever had, heavier

and more painful. And going raw they got even worse. They are just now

starting to lighten up after I reincorporated dairy and eggs. I cannot say much

on my personal issue except anectdotally it did not work for me. But I am

getting back to raw. After taking anatomy, nutrition, and a few other classes I

really would be inclined to say that a cessation of menses, other than pregnancy

or the age appropriate onset of menopause, is problematic at best. After doing

research on the lining of the uterus, women who don't menstruate are in for a

number of problems with bacterial levels in their uterus and vagina. Our

current levels are not as problematic in the wild as one would think, imagine

primitive body conditions, lack of full hygeine and the

need for an internal flushing of the vagina and uterus to keep bacteria and

yeast levels even. It makes a good bit of sense when the cleaning and concepts

of the time are taken into consideration. If left in the wild with no cleansers

and appropriate hygiene products I'd prefer a heavier menses, especially if I

were sexually active. Just my take.

 

Jennifer S Eli

[Guest guest]

You've made some good points Laura.

[Guest guest]

Laura aka sunflower aka cant remember the other name, you should

change your name from ToolPackinMama to TrollPackinMama. The same day

you joined this group you passed tons of other messages to post a

controversial reply to this menstruation thread. Not many new members

are that gutsy. Most lurk awhile or ease into things. We get it, you

think women should have monthly periods. It's not that serious. Go

back to your previous ID. LOL

[Guest guest]

rawfood , ToolPackinMama <laura@l...> wrote:

> " C. Hudson " wrote:

>

> > It is not true that menstruation is a hemorrhage.

>

> You can say that again. The anti-woman disgust in such a claim

seems

> pretty obvious. It's an insult to the entire female sex to class

normal

> mentrual flow as a " hemorrage " , IMHO.

 

Anti-woman? Not at all. I am a woman. I would suggest you read the

book " Is Menstruation Necessary " , a brilliant, enlightened work

written by two women, Wendy Harris and Nadine Forrest Mac Donald. To

be anti-hemorrhage is not to be anti-woman, quite the contrary.

 

Menstruation is indeed a hemorrhage, and it is unnatural. Many women

welcome the cessation of menstruation--the hemorrhaging, and the

attendant cramps, discomfort, fatigue, sometimes debility. At the

same time, many other women become very upset and defensive when

anyone suggests to them that we ought not to menstruate? Why is

this?

 

It is because women traditionally have been made to feel inferior,

and many women identify themselves so much with menstruation, and

their " right " to bleed, since women have been made to feel like

there is something bad or unclean about us when we bleed. As a

result, many women defend with passion the monthly bleeding that is

the norm in our culture.

 

> If it's true that it's " normal " and common for women on raw food

diet to

> stop menstruating, then that is an indictment against the raw food

> diet.

 

It is natural for women to ovulate. It is unnatural for women to

bleed. It has nothing to do with raw food per se. It has to do with

the body being cleaner and more vital as a result of not eating that

which toxifies the body, and therefore the uterus no longer needs to

be pressed into duty as a point of extraordinary elimination of

toxins from the body, as it is on a less healthy regimen.

 

Zsuzsa

[Guest guest]

Jennifer Eli wrote:

 

<<This is from the perspective of a nursing student, and I'll only

preface it with that. Light periods are what we are meant to have. Now

for the record, when I went vegan, I actually had some of the worst

periods I have ever had, heavier and more painful. And going raw they

got even worse. They are just now starting to lighten up after I

reincorporated dairy and eggs. I cannot say much on my personal issue

except anecdotally it did not work for me. But I am getting back to

raw. After taking anatomy, nutrition, and a few other classes I really

would be inclined to say that a cessation of menses, other than

pregnancy or the age appropriate onset of menopause, is problematic at

best. >>

 

Thank you for your comments.

[Guest guest]

sunflowersupreme wrote:

>

> You've made some good points Laura.

 

Thank you.

[Guest guest]

rawfood , ToolPackinMama <laura@l...> wrote:

> " C. Hudson " wrote:

 

> Menopause by definition means the cessation of menses, so saying

that

> when menses stop you can't have menopause is nuts.

 

Cessation of menses is " amenorrhea " , and can occur for various

reasons. Menopause occurs when menstruation stops due to the

cessation of ovulation, a pathological condition.

 

> When women who are undernourished and/or underweight stop

menstruating,

> it's generally, properly considered to be a bad thing.

Menstruation is

> a normal function of a healthy uterus in women of the proper age-

range.

> It's the way the uterus keeps the interior lining healthy.

 

I am neither undernourished nor underweight, nor are most of the

women who naturally cease the menstrual monthly hemorrhaging.

Menstruation is indeed " normal " , meaning the norm, the average,

since pathology is the norm in our culture. It occurs because the

body is pressing into the use the uterus as a site of extraordinary

elimination of toxins, due to toxic overload. When the body becomes

cleaner and healthier, and the extraordinary demands are not put on

the uterus, menstruation ceases.

 

There is no reason for the body to eliminate the endometrium each

month, nor all the blood loss that accompanies it. The body is very

economical and prudent, and the healthy body re-absorbs the

endometrium, recycles it. Menstruation serves a purpose in the

unhealthy body, but has no place in a truly healthy body.

 

> When I fast, I stop defecating, but that doesn't mean that

defecation is

> normally a bad thing. It's not constipation, either. There's

nothing

> pathological about it - it's a normal, temporary condition.

 

Defecation is natural elimination of waste matter. Menstruation is

unnatural hemorrhaging. There is no comparison between the two.

However, speaking of menstruation and fasting, this brings to mind

an interesting experience I had on my long fast, about 10-12 years

ago. I fasted for 27 days, and had two periods during that time, an

experience I've never had before or since. After I got over my

initial scare about it, I realized that my body was utilizing the

menses as one of the channels of very extraordinary elimination. My

second period followed two weeks after my first, apparently my body

eliminated the endometrium shortly after it was constructed.

 

> However, when a woman in the prime of life stops menstruating, and

it's

> because she is observing a strict raw-food diet (and not because

she's

> pregnant), then I would say that woman is probably underweight

and/or

> malnourished, and she needs to ~eat more food~ with better

attention to

> nutrition.

 

Belief in and adherence to the medical paradigm will certainly cause

many to look for problems where there are none, and in fact see a

natural condition as something undesirable. There are many changes

which the body undergoes as a result of healthy diet and lifestyle,

which are unknown and/or viewed negatively in the medical paradigm.

Ultimately, one must make a choice when one goes raw, whether to

follow the wisdom of the body, or the indoctrination in the medical

paradigm, drugs and surgery, which is counter to health.

 

> She probably should see a doctor. It might be a hormonal

> problem.

 

Ah, the universal mantra, that one should " see a doctor " . However, I

have opted out of following the medical paradigm. There is no

problem, when menstruation ceases naturally, quite the opposite, it

was the pathological condition of toxemia which was the problem. The

solution of the body was menstruation. When the toxemic condition

ceases sufficiently, so does menstruation. I fear that if and when

menstruation ceases naturally for many of the women who are raw,

they will go running to the doctor, who will probably talk them out

of being raw, out of being truly healthy.

 

Zsuzsa

[Guest guest]

rawfood , " C. Hudson " <cremedemoka> wrote:

 

> It is not true that menstruation is a hemorrhage. It is

> merely the sloghing off of the uterine lining that has

> built up in preparation for pregnancy.

 

It is hemorrhage, since it consists mostly of blood. In fact, the

blood loss is so problematic as to result in anemia in many women.

 

> I agree that it

> should not be heavy and disabliing--this could be

> pathological and is mostly due to fibroid tumors

> (abnormal uterine muscle tissue) or endometrial tissue

> growning outside the uterus which do hemorrhage. I also

> believe our " civilized " dietary habits are big culprits

> in this. Total cessation of menstruation is not the

> norm in vegetarians, but it can vastly improve very

> heavy periods. Cessation of periods can also occur in

> women which is also anecdotal.

 

This is what happens in women who are not raw. The periods become

lighter when the toxic load that needs to be eliminated via

menstruation becomes lighter. Eventually the toxic load is such that

the body no longer needs to eliminate via the menses.

 

> Ancient literature, folklore, art, etc of nearly all

> cultures from Asia, South American, Europe, Asia, North

> American Indians are replete with stories and images of

> women's monthly cycle. They all understood the 28 day

> fertility cycle and also associated it with the moon and

> moon goddesses. Was menstruation in these old cultures

> associated with the SAD diet?

 

Again, they were not raw. Toxemia is relative, the SAD diet being at

one end of the spectrum.

 

> It is also not true that this does not occur in other

> primates as the website you provided below states. The

> female gorilla has an average 30 day cycle with 3-4 days

> of " menstruation " . Surprise, surprise, the gorilla is

> the ONLY primate that is not known to be omnivorous, has

> never been observed eating meat. It is nearly totally a

> vegetarian (not fruitarian) except for the occasional

> termites and ants.

>

> Orangutans are more nearly fruitarian than any other

> primate. But they do occasionally eat meat. They also

> have a 30-32 day menstrual cycle with 2-4 days

> menstruation.

>

> Chimpanzees, baboons, gibbons, and nearly all other

> primates hunt and eat meat. Nearly all of them also

> have the same primate reproductive cycle as mentioned

> above. The " Waldorfhomeschoolers " website is totally

> inaccurate in its claims that primates do not

> menstruate and that they are all fruitarians. Only the

> orangutan is primarily fruitarian and it does eat meat

> occasionally. You can do all the web searches you want

> to on primate diet and reproduction and it will bear

> this out

 

What is referred to as menstruation in animals is usually very

scanty bleeding, if any. Usually there is just a bit of non-bloody

discharge. Supposedly there is still a bit of this discharge in

humans as well, when we cease menstruating.

 

All primates are primarily fruitarian, though many will exploit

other sources of nutrition when the natural dietary is not

available, as it often is not these days. I have done web searches

on primates and other animals, vis-a-vis menstruation, here's a

sample:

 

http://www.uwyo.edu/wjm/repro/menstrua.htm

Menstrual bleeding. In humans, Old World (Eurasian and African)

monkeys, and apes uterine spiral arteries become exposed with

sloughing of the endometrium (Figure 4-48); bleeding is visible.

Menstruation in tree-dwelling (prehensile) primates/New World (South

American) monkeys and prosimians is microscopic. Cycle lengths of

New World monkeys tend to be shorter than for higher primates (Table

4-7). Only two nonprimate species are known to menstruate - the

elephant shrew and bat.

 

http://www.angela-meder.de/publik/eep.pdf

bleeding lasts for 2-3 days and is considerably weaker than in

humans.

 

http://pubpages.unh.edu/~jel/512/primate98.html#Heading16

With the very important exceptions of humans and bonobos, female

primates primarily mate when they are fertile, within a short period

around ovulation.(The female primate reproductive cycle is a pattern

of ovulation, mating, and menstruation if fertilization does not

occur. Only a few species -- including chimps and humans -- show

traces of external bleeding during menstruation. Estrus refers to a

short period, generally around ovulation, when the female is

receptive to or even actively soliciting copulation.)

 

> Where are the numbers and studies to back this up?? This

> is not always the case. Again, it is just anecdotal and

> happens ocasionally, not always. You notice these

> websites put a lot of " may " and " can " qualifiers in there.

 

Numbers and studies may be found in the book " Is Menstruation

Necessary? " There probably are not a lot of numbers and studies,

however--how many long term raw vegan women are out there? But there

are sufficient numbers of anecdotal accounts to show a trend.

 

> Again, websites can say whatever they like. It seems

> some just state claims without facts and studies to back

> them up. Just because you like what they say or would

> like to believe what they say is true doesn't make it

> so.

 

Facts are not the same as studies. And just because there haven't

been enough " studies " , does not mean that something is not a fact!

In fact, I don't put much faith in " studies " .

 

> This is all not to flame anyone or their ideas. I just

> can't believe that the majority of women who go to a raw

> diet are going to stop menstruating.

 

That is the problem, it's such a new idea to so many women, so it

seems rather shocking, unexpected. Some women will feel a sense of

hope and relief, while others treat it with fear and mistrust, even

anger.

 

> If you do, it

> would behoove you to find out why. It may or may not be

> a problem.

 

I know why, and most importantly my body knows why. It is the medic

who would not know why.

 

> I would however expect to see an improvement

> or lessening in very problematic and heavy periods.

 

The lessening occurs on the way to optimal health. The cessation of

the menses is just the body completing the job.

 

> It just simply is not the way we evolved no matter what

> a certain website may say.

 

It has nothing to do with what a certain website says, the website

just describes it and backs it up. I also don't believe we evolved,

nor do I believe in creationism. But that's another subject. Suffice

it to say, we are simply going back to our roots, returning to our

optimal healthy state which results from eating raw vegan.

 

Zsuzsa

[Guest guest]

rawfood , Jennifer Eli <asatrumom> wrote:

 

> This is from the perspective of a nursing student, and I'll only

preface it with that. Light periods are what we are meant to have.

Now for the record, when I went vegan, I actually had some of the

worst periods I have ever had, heavier and more painful. And going

raw they got even worse.

 

I would say that is detox.

 

>They are just now starting to lighten up after I reincorporated

dairy and eggs.

 

I would say that is palliation.

 

>I cannot say much on my personal issue except anectdotally it did

not work for me.

 

I would say it worked very well, and if you stick with raw vegan,

you will eventually come out on the other side, healthier than

before. As Dr. Bernarr Zovluck says, in order to get well, we must

get sicker. This means that our symptoms get more intense, as our

bodies get more vital, and less toxified, so they have more energy

and resources to devote to cleansing and healing. Our bodies create

symptoms, and they do it for a purpose. All " disease " and symptoms

are self-generated, and self-limiting.

 

> But I am getting back to raw.

 

Glad to hear it.

 

> After taking anatomy, nutrition, and a few other classes I really

would be inclined to say that a cessation of menses, other than

pregnancy or the age appropriate onset of menopause, is problematic

at best. After doing research on the lining of the uterus, women

who don't menstruate are in for a number of problems with bacterial

levels in their uterus and vagina.

 

Bacteria are not problematic, all bacteria that live in our bodies

are there only because the body permits them to be, because they

perform vital functions, it is a symbiotic relationship. We do not

do a service to the body, nor to the poor bacteria, to wipe them

out. Without bacteria, our bodies would die in seconds of our

wastes.

 

> Our current levels are not as problematic in the wild as one would

think, imagine primitive body conditions, lack of full hygeine and

the need for an internal flushing of the vagina and uterus to keep

bacteria and yeast levels even. It makes a good bit of sense when

the cleaning and concepts of the time are taken into consideration.

If left in the wild with no cleansers and appropriate hygiene

products I'd prefer a heavier menses, especially if I were sexually

active. Just my take.

 

Our bodies are self-cleaning, self-healing, and they alone know the

right balance of micro-organisms. It's best not to interfere with

our bodily intelligence and wisdom. We can't help the body by

interfering, best to trust the body. This totally flies in the face

of the medical paradigm, of course.

 

Zsuzsa

[Guest guest]

rawfood , " Hollie " <hmoggridge@c...> wrote:

> Do you honestly consider that we were meant to bleed for days

every month ?

> it does not make sense. Think of yourself out in the wild,

foraging,

> gathering food for the day - if you bled like most of us do now

you would be

> a walking advertisement for every predator around for miles. I

hope you

> could run really fast and climb faster - you would need to.

 

Yes, I hadn't even thought of that, good point. What I had thought

of is that without all those maxi's you mention below, lol, we would

have been trailing blood all over the green Earth. That cannot be

natural.

 

> It is not anti-woman in the slightest for me to think that women

bleeding

> like we do now would have made for a very difficult time for our

species to

> survive. This is not how we started - of that I am pretty sure.

 

Good points.

 

Zsuzsa

[Guest guest]

Perhaps you misunderstood the bleed for days - I know women that bleed for

10 - 12 days, heavy non stop bleeding. I used practically pass out I lost

so much blood. That is not normal, but it is common.

Hollie

ToolPackinMama [laura]

April 12, 2004 3:30 PM

rawfood

Re: [Raw Food] Menstruation

 

 

Hollie wrote:

>

> Do you honestly consider that we were meant to bleed for days every

month ?

 

Yes.

 

> I think perhaps we were meant to bleed a little, for a day or two

 

Apparently we agree.

 

 

 

----------

--

[Guest guest]

Hollie wrote:

>

> Perhaps you misunderstood the bleed for days - I know women that bleed for

> 10 - 12 days, heavy non stop bleeding. I used practically pass out I lost

> so much blood. That is not normal

 

Uh, no.

 

> but it is common.

 

Uh, sorry, I doubt that.