Guest guest Posted July 19, 2004 Report Share Posted July 19, 2004 So many people posting with attempts to justify humans' eating of honey! There is NO justification for humans eating honey. It is immoral, it is stealing, it is enslavement. How shameful that some people come to a vegan list and attempt to justify their brazen consumption of such a harmful product, just because they think they like the taste, or they or their relatives make money off the poor bees' honey, or they think there's some health benefit (there is NOT) to eating honey. Zsuzsa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 2004 Report Share Posted July 19, 2004 Your post appears full of misinformation. I actually had to laugh. It's ignorance that is dangerous. Brazen? A few happen to be very well educated about bee keeping unlike yourself. Poor bees? What in the world are you talking about? nb - southladogs rawfood Monday, July 19, 2004 2:19 PM [Raw Food] Honey So many people posting with attempts to justify humans' eating of honey! There is NO justification for humans eating honey. It is immoral, it is stealing, it is enslavement. How shameful that some people come to a vegan list and attempt to justify their brazen consumption of such a harmful product, just because they think they like the taste, or they or their relatives make money off the poor bees' honey, or they think there's some health benefit (there is NOT) to eating honey. Zsuzsa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 20, 2004 Report Share Posted July 20, 2004 The information I have presented is correct. You have presented nothing to counter it except arrogant ad hominems. I'll say it again, there is NO justification for enslavement and killing of bees or (any animal) by " beekeepers " or anyone else, there is NO justification for stealing their food and other products that bees make and substituting sugar and other garbage, there is NO health benefit to honey or any other bee products for humans but instead only harm to human health. I have already presented the following links: " Why Honey is not Vegan " http://www.vegetus.org/honey/honey.htm Bees & honey: http://www.vegansociety.com/html/info/info24.html Here are yet another few links to the harm in honey: http://www.parkc.org/honey.html http://www.resanigo.most.org.pl/zwierzeta/honey.html http://www.bizstone.com/Essays/honey.html http://www.vegsource.com/joanne/qa/qahoney.htm http://articles.animalconcerns.org/arman/arman_s1.html: " Bees are astoundingly complex creatures, they have memory and an ability to apply it to novel situations. They have an intricate social structure and are able to communicate detailed information to each other. Millions upon millions of bees are killed every year in commercial honey production both intentionally and unintentionally. It is difficult to say to what degree a creature so vastly different to us is capable of suffering but we don't need honey -- so surely it would be better to spare the lives of these miraculous creatures? " http://www.countrysidelive.com/arsec6q.htm: Bees are often killed in the production of honey, in the worst case the whole hive may be destroyed if the keeper doesn't wish to protect them over the winter. Not all beekeepers do this, but the general practice is one that embodies the attitude that living things are mere material and have no intrinsic value of their own other than what commercial value we can wrench from them. Artificial insemination involving death of the male is now also the norm for generation of new queen bees. The favored method of obtaining bee sperm is by pulling off the insect's head (decapitation sends an electrical impulse to the nervous system which causes sexual arousal). The lower half of the headless bee is then squeezed to make it ejaculate. The resulting liquid is collected in a hypodermic syringe. Also here are comments from a former beekeeper: " [T]ypically, beekeepers are gloved and netted to avoid stings (nearly every bee who stings will die due to her entrails being pulled from her body attached to her stinger.) Then the hives are opened as quickly as possible and the bees are `smoked.' Smoke from a smoldering fire carried in a `smoker' is pumped into the hive and the bees are `calmed.' In spite of this, the combs are pulled quickly and many bees are crushed in the process. When a bee is hurt, she releases a chemical message that alerts and activates the hive members who proceed to attack the intruder—giving their lives in the process. " And comments from PETA: " In the honey industry, the buzz word is profit. Like factory farmers, many beekeepers take inhumane steps to ensure personal safety and reach production quotas. It is not unusual for larger honey producers to cut off the wings of the queen bee so that she cannot leave the colony, or to have her artificially inseminated on a bee-sized version of the factory farm " rape rack. " (6) When the keeper wants to move a queen to a new colony, she is carried with " bodyguard " bees, all of whom--if they survive transport-- will be killed by bees in the new colony. Large commercial operations also may take all the honey instead of leaving the 60 pounds or so that bees need to get through the winter. They replace the rich honey with a cheap sugar substitute that is not as fortifying or tasty. In colder areas, if the keepers consider it too costly to keep the bees alive through the winter, they will destroy the hives by pouring gasoline on them, killing most of the bees with the fumes, and setting them on fire. Other times, keepers, who feel that lost bees are easily replaced, allow them to die when trees are sprayed with insecticide. Bees are often killed, or their wings and legs torn off, by haphazard handling. " Zsuzsa rawfood , " nesting bird " <nestingbird@e...> wrote: > Your post appears full of misinformation. I actually had to laugh. > It's ignorance that is dangerous. Brazen? A few happen to be > very well educated about bee keeping unlike yourself. > > Poor bees? What in the world are you talking about? > > nb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 21, 2004 Report Share Posted July 21, 2004 This is a raw food list, not just a vegan list. What makes you so self confident in your self importance ? I am sure you are not concerned about killing unborn human babies. please correct me if I am wrong, but I have met you enviro-crazies before. After all i live in San Francisco. Rufus --- southladogs <southladogs wrote: > So many people posting with attempts to justify > humans' eating of > honey! There is NO justification for humans eating > honey. It is > immoral, it is stealing, it is enslavement. How > shameful that some > people come to a vegan list and attempt to justify > their brazen > consumption of such a harmful product, just because > they think they > like the taste, or they or their relatives make > money off the poor > bees' honey, or they think there's some health > benefit (there is > NOT) to eating honey. > > Zsuzsa > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 21, 2004 Report Share Posted July 21, 2004 Oh, bless you Rufus. There is more to Raw than fruits and nutz. & There is nothing more nauseating than someone who wants to control the world and thinks they are doing good. Bunny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 21, 2004 Report Share Posted July 21, 2004 rawfood , Rufus Shaw <rufus10_99> wrote: > This is a raw food list, not just a vegan list. Yes, the intro says it's a raw vegan list. So what's the problem? > What > makes you so self confident in your self importance ? I'm confident in the message of raw veganism, but it's not about " self " , it's about stopping the mass enslavement, torture, murder of our non-human brothers and sisters. That constitutes ethical veganism. It's also about health, and unfortunately about 95% or more of what is passed off as healthy, even among raw fooders, is incorrect, and leads only to dead ends and dwindling vitality. Raw veganism, and in particular fruitarianism, is the basis of compassion as well as optimal health. > I am sure you are not concerned about killing unborn > human babies. This is not the appropriate forum for such a topic. There are no doubt multiple lists on welcoming such discussions, and you may want to join them. > please correct me if I am wrong, but I > have met you enviro-crazies before. You're saying I'm supposed to know whom you've met before? And you call ME crazy? LOL. > After all i live > in San Francisco. Then you have a great opportunity to be immersed in the enlightened raw vegan consciousness which is perhaps more abundant there than anywhere else. Zsuzsa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 21, 2004 Report Share Posted July 21, 2004 rawfood , " ridgerunrbunny " <ridgerunrbunny> wrote: > There is nothing more nauseating than someone who wants to control the > world and thinks they are doing good. Hmmm...yes, that can certainly be said about those who want to control entire colonies of animals, and insist on their " right " to do so. That is of course in addition to insisting on having all sorts of other poor animals killed so they can eat them. Zsuzsa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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