Guest guest Posted November 12, 2004 Report Share Posted November 12, 2004 Our gov't certainly is not new to using questionable methods to enter us into war. Franklin D. Roosevelt and his staff apparently knew of the plans of the Japanese to bomb pearl harbor on 12/6/1941. They had broken the Japanese code and learned of the plan. They chose to allow the bombing to take place to enter us into WWII, instead of prepare for the attack and risk preventing the attack altogether and not entering the war. As a result, many lives were lost. I first read of this in an article. There is also information on the internet. I once overheard someone working for the military, apparently with a security clearance, after a discussion about the event, saying " I didn't realize that was declassified " (the information.) Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 12, 2004 Report Share Posted November 12, 2004 I do agree that the government has used questionable methods for entering war. The Gulf of Tonkin incident that led to involvement in Vietnam is a good example. However, the theory about Roosevelt has been around a long time and there isn't sufficient evidence to prove that he knew of the attack beforehand. It's possible, but not proven. Anyone can come up with any number of possible scenarios and many of these do find their way into books and on the internet but unless they are backed up with hard evidence they're just theories and nothing more. And, even if there seems to be good evidence, we need to accept the fact that the truth may never be know since the people involved are gone. I've observed that there are generally two types of people who tend to be rather vocal in these matters. The first type are the folks who willingly swallow what everything the government tells them. Like children, the want to be led and don't want to question. For example, these are the people who believe that, as the president said, " they hate us for our freedom " when it's clearly obvious that " they " really hate us for supporting their enemy, Israel. Our government doesn't tell us that each time Israel allows an illegal settlement in Palestinian land that this is just one more justification for retaliation against the U.S. The other types of people are those who are willing to go along with and believe any conspiracy theory that comes down the pike whether there's sufficient evidence or not. I remember a very popular theory during Reagan's term that he was the antichrist. This theory was based on the fact that his three names, Ronald Wilson Reagan each had six letters and would transpose into the number 666 which is the sign of the antichrist. Do I need to discuss the absurdity of this particular, and once popular, theory? It's true that we don't often hear the truth from our government and that we must be watchful for lies and propaganda but this doesn't mean that we need to swallow every conspiracy theory that comes down the pike. Let's keep a close watch on our leaders, look for evidence and proof, write to our congressional leaders and vote wisely. M Our gov't certainly is not new to using questionable methods to enter us into war. Franklin D. Roosevelt and his staff apparently knew of the plans of the Japanese to bomb pearl harbor on 12/6/1941. They had broken the Japanese code and learned of the plan. They chose to allow the bombing to take place to enter us into WWII, instead of prepare for the attack and risk preventing the attack altogether and not entering the war. As a result, many lives were lost. I first read of this in an article. There is also information on the internet. I once overheard someone working for the military, apparently with a security clearance, after a discussion about the event, saying " I didn't realize that was declassified " (the information.) Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 12, 2004 Report Share Posted November 12, 2004 While we're on the topic of the Middle East and our government, I'd like to recommend two good books. " Sleeping With the Devil, How Washington Sold Our Soul for Saudi Crude " by Robert Baer - Former Case Officer for the CIA " Hatred's Kingdom, How Saudi Arabia Supports the New Global Terrorism " by Dore Gold - Former Ambassador to the United Nations M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 12, 2004 Report Share Posted November 12, 2004 > I've observed that there are generally two types of people who tend to > be rather vocal in these matters. > The first type are the folks who willingly swallow what everything the > government tells them. > The other types of people are those who are willing to go along with > and believe any conspiracy theory > that comes down the pike whether there's sufficient evidence or not. I'm not sure if you were trying to place me in one of those two types or not. I don't fit into either of the two categories. I'm of another group who tries not to judge things without fully knowing the facts. That is why I would not call some of these theories " absurd " . They may be, but maybe not. I'm in no position to decide. I do know I do not fully trust my government to share the truth with me. Some theories, to me, do sound more plausible than the " official " story. Some true facts leak out. Some " facts " may be fictitious. I am not able to say with 100% accuracy which are true and which are not, so it is just another possible theory. Keeping in mind some of these theories and leaked " facts " sometimes fall together over time, so I'd rather have some of the information (taken with a grain of salt) and save it to my flopy. When more and more information supports a theory it may seem more and more possible, especially when I trust the sources. Regarding Roosevelt, that too may be true... or not. > Let's keep a close watch on our leaders, look for evidence and proof, > write to our congressional leaders and vote wisely. Good point! And when writing congressional leaders, feel free to copy various organizations, federal and otherwise! Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 12, 2004 Report Share Posted November 12, 2004 Jeff, That is incredible! And didn't Hitler set fire to the German equivalent to the White House and blame the Jews?! But, Bin Ladin finally took responsibility in his speech sent right before elections. Why would he admit to it if he didn't do it? If you haven't had time to read the entire transcript, I recommend it, it's a very good read. Trish http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/79C6AF22-98FB-4A1C-B21F-2BC36E87F61F.htm Jeff Rogers [jeff] Thursday, November 11, 2004 10:17 PM RawSeattle [RawSeattle] Re: OT Jeff Rense Our gov't certainly is not new to using questionable methods to enter us into war. Franklin D. Roosevelt and his staff apparently knew of the plans of the Japanese to bomb pearl harbor on 12/6/1941. They had broken the Japanese code and learned of the plan. They chose to allow the bombing to take place to enter us into WWII, instead of prepare for the attack and risk preventing the attack altogether and not entering the war. As a result, many lives were lost. I first read of this in an article. There is also information on the internet. I once overheard someone working for the military, apparently with a security clearance, after a discussion about the event, saying " I didn't realize that was declassified " (the information.) Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 13, 2004 Report Share Posted November 13, 2004 Yeah, I had the same question. I have read that Osama once worked or maybe still works for the CIA. (He has brothers who live here in the US.) Which could mean he was instructed to say that to have the effect on the American people as reverse psychology to get them to vote for Bush. All speculation, of course. There has been lots of talk on the internet about how the US could of captured him in the past but were thwarted by those higher up, so in that sense it does fit in. We'll never know the entirety of what is really going on and the motives behind it. Ron RawSeattle , " seattleponyrides " <seattleponyrides@c...> wrote: > > Jeff, That is incredible! > > And didn't Hitler set fire to the German equivalent to the White House and > blame the Jews?! > > But, Bin Ladin finally took responsibility in his speech sent > right before elections. > > Why would he admit to it if he didn't do it? > > If you haven't had time to read the entire transcript, I recommend it, it's > a very good read. > > Trish > > > http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/79C6AF22-98FB-4A1C-B21F- 2BC36E87F61F.htm > > Jeff Rogers [jeff@t...] > Thursday, November 11, 2004 10:17 PM > RawSeattle > [RawSeattle] Re: OT Jeff Rense > > > Our gov't certainly is not new to using questionable methods to enter > us into war. Franklin D. Roosevelt and his staff apparently knew of > the plans of the Japanese to bomb pearl harbor on 12/6/1941. They had > broken the Japanese code and learned of the plan. They chose to allow > the bombing to take place to enter us into WWII, instead of prepare > for the attack and risk preventing the attack altogether and not > entering the war. As a result, many lives were lost. I first read of > this in an article. There is also information on the internet. I once > overheard someone working for the military, apparently with a > security clearance, after a discussion about the event, saying " I > didn't realize that was declassified " (the information.) > > Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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