yummy fresh durians or THE REAL FRUITS OF SUMMER?!

[Guest guest]

Hey All,

 

I love Durians too!

 

And I'm wondering why anyone would want to buy $40 durians from half way aorund

the world when ORGANIC CHERRIES, PEACHES, STRAWBERRIES, ETC., ETC. are RIGHT NOW

available everywhere grown LOCALLY!

 

And I'm curious if anyone else sees the contradoctions in the low-fat

fruitarian contingent of this group being ga-ga over durians, which are the fuit

with the HIGHEST FAT CONTENT of all fruits?!

 

This would seem to contradict the ultra-low fat diet we should all supposedly

eat--ESPECIALLY IF WE HAVE SKIN ISSUES--right?

 

Or is it the Natual Hygiene contingent is craving fat, to the point of ignoring

the juicy sweet local abundance in order to waste their $ on non-organic food

whose additional costs are to the planet through the waste created by shipping,

packaging, etc.

 

Basically, I think that the " ONE DIET IS OPTIMAL FOR ALL PEOPLE ALL THE TIME "

fruit fanatics would do us all a favor and attempt to understand that each us

are biochemically different, have different body types, etc. and need to eat

according to what works for us AND FOR THE PLANET.

 

Personally I eat with the seasons and with the intent to be aware of how my

eating affects the health of the planet in addition to my individual health.

 

That said, ENJOY THE REAL FRUITS OF SUMMER, all!

 

 

 

 

Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+

countries) for 2¢/min or less.

 

 

[Guest guest]

Hi there,

 

I may be wrong, but I think FRESH (unfrozen) durian is

only available in the summer? And that is why a few of

us are excited to find it. I can't speak for others,

but this natural hygienist is taking FULL advantage of

the lovely summer fruits! I love summer!!! Peaches,

nectarines, cherries, plums, YUMMM!!!

 

Thanks for your concern.

 

Take care,

 

Audrey

 

 

--- Chef Sprout <chef_sprout2001 wrote:

 

> Hey All,

>

> I love Durians too!

>

> And I'm wondering why anyone would want to buy $40

> durians from half way aorund the world when ORGANIC

> CHERRIES, PEACHES, STRAWBERRIES, ETC., ETC. are

> RIGHT NOW available everywhere grown LOCALLY!

>

> And I'm curious if anyone else sees the

> contradoctions in the low-fat fruitarian contingent

> of this group being ga-ga over durians, which are

> the fuit with the HIGHEST FAT CONTENT of all

> fruits?!

>

> This would seem to contradict the ultra-low fat

> diet we should all supposedly eat--ESPECIALLY IF WE

> HAVE SKIN ISSUES--right?

>

> Or is it the Natual Hygiene contingent is craving

> fat, to the point of ignoring the juicy sweet local

> abundance in order to waste their $ on non-organic

> food whose additional costs are to the planet

> through the waste created by shipping, packaging,

> etc.

>

> Basically, I think that the " ONE DIET IS OPTIMAL

> FOR ALL PEOPLE ALL THE TIME " fruit fanatics would do

> us all a favor and attempt to understand that each

> us are biochemically different, have different body

> types, etc. and need to eat according to what works

> for us AND FOR THE PLANET.

>

> Personally I eat with the seasons and with the

> intent to be aware of how my eating affects the

> health of the planet in addition to my individual

> health.

>

> That said, ENJOY THE REAL FRUITS OF SUMMER, all!

>

>

>

>

> Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls

> to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less.

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

>

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

> And I'm wondering why anyone would want to buy $40 durians from half

> way aorund the world when ORGANIC CHERRIES, PEACHES, STRAWBERRIES,

> ETC., ETC. are RIGHT NOW available everywhere grown LOCALLY!

 

Good point. (And why pay $40 when we can pay $5.00 sweet frozen

durians?)

 

> And I'm curious if anyone else sees the contradoctions in the low-fat

> fruitarian contingent of this group being ga-ga over durians, which

> are the fuit with the HIGHEST FAT CONTENT of all fruits?!

 

I suspect the people discussing the durian are not claiming to be 100%

low-fat. I don't recall hearing those discussing the durians ever

claiming they only eat low-fat, though, like me, they may recognize

benefits of low-fat and may feel better when they honor a low-fat diet.

I haven't quite gotten to a 100% low-fat diet yet (though have done it

for short terms.)

 

Actually, of all the fruits I have charted on this chart:

http://www.soystache.com/fat.htm, Avocados are the highest in fat

content when comparing equal amounts (100 grams), durian has the 2nd

highest fat content (though highest that I know of among sweet fruits.)

 

> That said, ENJOY THE REAL FRUITS OF SUMMER, all!

 

I plan to (thank you!) I already have a case of local (WA) organic

apricots and have been working on my case of local organic plums! Now

if I could only find a good local source of organic cacao, coconuts,

avocados, and durian!

 

Jeff

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Hi Bruce. Nobody is ignoring the sweet, juicy local abundance. I'm

enjoying the local cherries, raspberries, apricots, etc. from farms and

farmers' market. Every time I go to farmer's market I feel so blessed

with all these good food. We just like to have a little exotic raw treat

once for a while. I hope having some durian once in months would not

raise my fat intake so much.

Thanks for reminding me to eat for the health of the planet. As a long

time earthsave member I do understand that and try to keep in mind.

Helen

[Guest guest]

My original reply to Chef Sprout, for those interested, was:

 

Hey All (but directed squarely at Chef Sprout),

 

It is disappointing to see a person, Chef Sprout, using his thinking

and writing talents to obscure the truth, whether purposeful or

unrealized. It is dishonest, disingenuous, and lacking integrity for

a person to denigrate others or other pursuits by using suggestive

and speculative arguments, such as Chef Sprout has done. The post by

Chef Sprout barely stands above the level of gossip and by that

reveals the plainly evident ulterior motives and state of mind of the

individual. Let this list serve as conduit for truth and not as a

platform for spreading innuendos, nonsense, false agendas, and self-

absorbed lame thinking.

 

In answers to questions backhandedly posed, a person eats durian

because they taste very good and are a normal part of a healthy diet

for the human species. Durians are low fat compared to nuts and

other truly high fat foods. The contradiction is only within Chef

Sprout's mind, outwardly expressed in Chef Sprout's manipulative use

of words, straw man arguments, and inflammatory talk.

 

To indulge myself in Chef Sprout manner, I am sure Chef Sprout is

biochemically different than all other humans (perhaps he is a

tomato), has a much different body type (perhaps he is shaped like a

unicorn), eats according to what works for him (not unlike flesh-

eater's who do the same), and eats what works for the planet (perhaps

Chef Sprout should eat rock, since there's a copious, minerally-rich

planetary supply readily available everywhere that's environmentally

friendly to boot).

 

I'm confident Chef Sprout is health concerned, individual-wise and

planet-wise, despite his faults in argumentive logic. I suggest that

while pursuing his concerns, he includes in his efforts the learning

of careful and considerate thinking practices, which habit will lead

to a healthy mind that operates to spread truth rather than innuendos

and other disingenuous comments.

 

Robert

[Guest guest]

>

> In answers to questions backhandedly posed, a person eats durian

> because they taste very good

 

Remember that to most people the stuff tastes like moldy socks that

have been forgotten in the washer for two weeks, then soaked in

kerosene.

 

> and are a normal part of a healthy diet

> for the human species.

 

So, humans normally should only be living in southeast Asia?

[Guest guest]

Thanks Anthony,

 

I'm having incredible difficulties here with recieving and sending

posts to the group.

 

I'll repost a previous response here to Chef Sprout before I reply to

yours. It's lengthy, one can read as its suits oneself.

 

Hi all,

 

I'll start with a quote:

 

A lie could go halfway around the world before the truth even had a

chance to put its boots on - Mark Twain.

 

It is easy to spread false ideas by using disingenuous inuendos, but it

is much more difficult to bring truthful understanding to a subject

that has been so abused. For the sake of truthful discovery, I'll add

some important comments.

 

I reply to Chef Sprouts comments.

 

> I love Durians too!

 

That is very nice to hear. Durian is delicious and can be a true

delight to the frugivorous human species. A frugivore is a species

that eats predominantly of fruit, and the frugivourous nature or

classification is made apparent by the specie's biological, anatomical,

psychological, and physiological characteristics. Other

classifications, among many, are insectivore, herbivore, graminovore,

carnivore, omnivore.

 

A classification only reveals what a species primarily eats and is best

designed or suited to eat. A frugivore can and will also eat various

quantities of non-fruit foods, such as herbage, animal flesh, grubs,

seeds (nuts, grains), tubers and vegetables, and can and will gain some

advantage from eating these foods. However, these are difficult to

digest and are concentrated foods which the frugivourous human is wise

to eat in small quantites and non-regularly, since it's digestive

system is, by evolution, suited for the extremely easy-to-digest

fruits.

 

> And I'm wondering why anyone would want to buy $40 durians

> from halfway around the world when organic cherries, peaches,

> strawberries, etc., etc. are right now available everywhere

> grown locally!

 

Nora had purchased and eaten the durians two or more months ago when

the currently available crop of fresh fruits were not yet available.

Raw durian can be purchased, as a treat for those who are greatly

removed from the human specie's natural and normal environment (the

tropics), for 10 to 40 dollars, depending on quantity, quality, type,

and container (in fruit or removed).

 

The human being is a tropical creature, most evidently, as pointed out

by its hairlessness, nakedness without clothe, uncomfortableness in

temperatures below 75 degrees, " sweet tooth " , love for tree, plant, and

garden scenery, attraction to bright colours, wariness of moving

obscured objects, and more. Its normal and natural diet is composed of

predominantly tropical fruits. The civilized and modernized human that

returns to following its specie's more natural, normal, and sensible

behaviour will find that the tropical fruits are most delightful and

satisfying. The eating of the " king of the tropical fruits " , or

durian, by an indivudual so inclined to pursue natural health, is not

worthy of credible criticism. To criticize it is to indulge in

frivolous nit-pickyness.

 

> And I'm curious if anyone else sees the contradictions in the

> low-fat fruitarian contingent of this group being ga-ga over

> durians which are the fruit with the highest fat content of all

> fruits?!

 

Perhaps others do see a contradiction, but only because a full

understanding of the subject is not realized, intellectually. Using

terms like 'ga-ga' in the context of the post is the using of scorn to

ridicule others. Let us speak amicably and amiably if we are revealing

or discussing sensible issues and wishing to relay truthful discovery

and sensible thinking.

 

The low-fat " contingent " is pointing out, truthfully, that the excess

eating of concentrated foods, such as foods overly rich in fats, is

harmful to the human organism, consistent with the frugivorous nature

of the human species. The term fruitarian is a lay term that is used

to label people, and it does little justice to actual scientific or

rational revelation of the normal disposition of the human species. Let

us refrain from stereotyping, name calling, prejudices, and making

misleading categorizations when discussing important issues.

 

Durians are not high fat. They are slightly richer in some nutrients

than the average temperate climate fruit, which is common for tropical

fruits and especially the more wild fruits of nature. Good informaton

on durian can be had at www.durian.timtyler.org. Other sites, such as

www.nutritiondata.com/index.html, reveal nutrient contents of more

foods. The following is a nutritional examination of durian.

 

In 100 grams (g) weight of average durian flesh, 164 Calories (Cals):

 

nutrient (g) % of weight Cals/g Cals % of Cals

water 66 66 0 C/g 0 0

carbs 27 27 4 C/g 109 66.5

fat 5.3 5.3 9 C/g 48 29

protein 1.7 1.7 4 C/g 7 4.5

____ _____ ___ _____

100 100 164 100

 

Note that within the carbohydrate total is fibre, which is indigestible

to us. Calorie content is determined by burning food in a Calorimeter

which heats water, much unlike the biological digestion that occurs in

our bodies. The Calories in fibre are not available to our digestive

systems, and we do not use all Calories in food, just like we do not

use all the grams (mass) in a food (we defecate and urinate unused

portions).

 

For those that analyze a fruit's worth by nutrient weight, we see fat

is 5.3% of the TOTAL weight. For those that ananlyze a fruit's worth

by nutrient Calories, fat is 27 percent of the TOTAL calories in

durian.

 

In the table above, note that water constitutes most of the durian

(66%, consistent for a fruit), that sugar (carbohydrates) constitutes

most of the nutrient content of the durian, especially from the Calorie

perspective, and that overall, durian is at the high end of fat content

for fruits but is consistent with a low fat, low protein, higher sugar,

high water content diet that is completely normal, natural, and

appropriate for the human species (see table below). At the most, one

can say that one should not eat too much durian, due to its high

calorie nature (most fruit is in the 50 to 100 Cal/g range).

 

Since the concern seems to be about fat content, particularly from a

Calorie perspective, by Chef Sprout, a comparison to other foods is

appropriate.

 

Food % Calories (of total Calories)

 

Avocados 77

Olives 72

Pecans 88

Brazil nuts 85

Walnuts 84

Almond 78

Cashews 70

Sunflower seeds 70

Sesame seeds 73

Cheddar Cheese 72

Whole Yoghurt 50

Farmed/Wild Salmon 54/40

Lean, trimmed Beef 48

Fruits:

Durian 27

Rowal 15

Feijoa 14

Sapodilla 11

Raspberries 11

Prickly pears 10

Blackberries 10

Kumquats 9

Strawberres 8

Rhubarb 8

Apricots 7

Watermelon 5

Apple 4

 

It's important to note that durian is dramatically well below the level

of fat calories exhibited by truly high fat foods, such as avocados,

animal products, and nuts and seeds.

 

Though durian tops the list of fruits for fat calorie content, it is

still a low fat food compared to non-fruit foods. It is for its higher

fruit-fat content that durian gets its well deserved name " king of the

fruits " . The higher fat content results in more comfortable, pleasing,

tasty feelings when eating the fruit. Hormones that our bodies

manufacture, which are deeply involved with our feelings, are largely

modified fat molecules. As well, fats are largely responsible for

giving pleasing, smooth texture and taste to foods. It is no wonder why

raw foodist who return to a natural, normal diet for the human species

are enamored with durian, but wisely eat it in smaller quanities than

other delicious and equally beneficial fruits.

 

> Or is it the Natural Hygiene contingent is craving fat, to

> the point of ignoring the juicy sweet local abundance in

> order to waste their $ on non-organic food whose additional

> costs are to the planet through the waste created by shipping,

> packaging, etc?

 

The clear answer to this " question " is no. Durian is a normal and

natural, low-fat fruit to eat. Natural Hygiene recommends, but not

limited to, eating ripe, preferably organic, in season, fresh, whole,

non-dried or non-concentrated, high water content, succulent,

flavourable, aesthetically pleasing, aromatic, sweet, easily digested,

and otherwise sensually pleasing fruits, as the main part of a diet

that include other elements that are normal and natural to a

frugivorous diet (including nuts, seeds, legumes, vegetables, and such,

and even tiny amounts of animal products or grains for some, if

desired).

 

Though in the previous paragraph Chef Sprout referred to fruitarians

and in the next paragraph referred to Hygienists (implying that the two

are the same), it needs to be stressed that Hygienists are not

fruitarians, and that Hygiene is the study and implementation of all

those factor elements that pertain to human health and welfare, which

includes the study and recommended eating of the foods that are

appropriate for and harmonious to the frugivorous human species.

 

Regarding costs to the planet regarding waste production, it is abusive

argument to suggest that Hygienists, fruitarians, or any other similar

minded health seekers are lacking in their efforts or negligent

overall, as these people are already immensely and vastly reducing

their impact on the earth by eating raw foods that are, for the most

part, unpackaged, and are by-and-large involving much reduced

transportation, not to mention that these health seekers are treating

themselves, others, and the earth much more gently than any cooked-

fooder or health-negligent person comes near to.

 

> Basically, I think that the " ONE DIET IS OPTIMAL FOR ALL PEOPLE

> ALL THE TIME " fruit fanatics would do us all a favor and attempt

> to understand that each us are biochemically different, have

> different body types, etc. and need to eat according to what

> works for us AND FOR THE PLANET.

 

Here again, after Chef Sprout has used the words 'fruitarian' and

the 'natural hygiene contingent' he is now resorting to 'fruit

fanatics' after the previous derisive use of 'ga-ga'. What is Chef

Sprout's real objective? This technique that he uses is called Personal

Attack, or Ad Hominen Abusive and is favoured by those who wish to

illegitimately discredit others by substituting abusive remarks for

evidence and logical analysis. I.e, attack the person instead of the

claim itself.

 

Chef Sprout utilizes the Straw Man fallacy as he portrays fanatics

(fruitarians, hygienists, if one is to follow the implied meanings of

his suggestive talk) as saying that " one diet is optimal for all people

all of the time " . No one is saying this, and Chef Sprout is

exagerating and putting words in the mouth's of others, out of context,

in order to give his own argument apparent legitimacy. Ie, falsely

bash the opposition, then promote oneself as correct because one

disagrees with and doesn't follow what the oppostion has been falsely

claimed to be doing.

 

For considerations on what constitutes legitimate and/or false

arguments, see www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/personal-attack.html

 

Hygiene reveals that for the human species, there is an optimal general

diet that is consistent with the frugivorous human species, just as

there are optimal general diets for other species that are carnivorous

(animal flesh), herbivorous (eat grasses, plants), insectivorous

(insects, grubs), graminovorous (grains), omnivorous (eat everything,

like pigs and bears, and dogs to a small extent) and so on. It will be

observed that the tens of thousands of biological species out there eat

mainly one food type, one thing at a time, and otherwise simply, unlike

the domesticated, civilized human being that has taught itself,

unwisely, to eat everything under the sun that moves or doesn't move.

Just add sugar (sweet), flavouring (tasty), and texture (creamy,

succulent), to make it more like fruit, and its palatable.

 

Hygiene teaches us that there is an optimal diet, but that each person

who is currently following the conventional habits of our civilized

cultures, if they are truly interested in returning to sensible,

normal, and natural health habits, will have to transition themselves

either slowly, quickly, or at some other preferred rate from their

grieviously poor diet to a much more simple diet that is reflected by

and consistent with the rest of the bilogical world's habits on earth.

It is only civilized humans and their domesticated animals that are so

extreme and careless in their eating habits, and which civilized humans

and domesticated animals at the same time are " mysteriously " mired down

in endless and incomparable diseases. What can be expected to happen

when a wrench is thrown into a finely operating machine? The wrench is

wrongul foods and other poor dietary habits, and the finely operating

machine is the human body.

 

Hygiene, if actually studied, underlines the fact that an optimal diet

is what we humans need to strive for, not one that we can instantly

have. A long transition period is required, taking many years of effort

combined with dutiful efforts in other areas of life that impact health

(physical, mental, and emotional). As well, the optimal diet is

variable within its bounds (frugivorous), meaning all days are not the

same, the diet has variety over the year, different foods are eaten,

periods of no eating/less eating/more eating occur, and much more.

 

Hygiene is careful to note that the members of each species are

extremely biochemically similar, unlike Chef Sprout would have us

believe. In fact, all life forms follow the same biological laws that

govern all life on earth. Similarly, the physical laws that govern

earth, such as gravity, electricty, density, hydrodynamics, etc, also

govern other planets and structures in the universe.

Biological laws clearly state that the organism that eats contrary to

its evolved, natural, and normal adaptations and structure, will

experience discomfort, malfunction, mal-growth, erratic behaviour, and

problem after problem, all of which fall under the general descriptive

word 'dis-ease'. 'Ease' means freedom from physical discomfort or

mental agitation, and 'dis' is a prefix meaning not, negative, no,

etc. Dis-ease means not at ease. The word disease is the word dis-ease

without the dash, for easier writing purposes. It's that simple.

 

It is true that modern civilized humans have different body types, but

only as a modern civilized-living classification of the different ways

bodies can deteriorate and appear after following poor habits. These

appearances are due to the innumerable ways the human body can break

down while dealing with the innumerable variety and quantity of false

practices put upon it. The eating of foods that are not compatible

with a frugivorous diet does not suddenly or slowly change a human into

a carnivore, a herbivore, an insectivore, a graminovore, or an

omnivore. The human still retains the organs that constitute its

anatomical structure, and these organs still strive to operate

optimally and according to their abilities, despite the hardships they

are being forced to endure and attempt to overcome and the change in

form and fuctionality that results from this long-term abuse.

 

Let us not go to self-rationalizing, excusive, ill-informed thinking in

our attempts to legitimize those habits of ours that are truly still

derelict and inconsistent with the truthful frugivorous nature of the

human species. Let us be reminded, as an extreme example, that even the

alcoholic promotes the idea that he/she is somehow unaffected by

poisonous drinking habits, and that they have special abilities to

benefit from alcohol and avoid its harmfulness. This is not to say that

those that follow other wrongful habits are the same as alcoholics, are

alcoholics, etc. The similarity is in the using of illegitimate exuses

to rationalize wrongful elements of one's behaviour.

 

As the human being begins to eat more in harmony with its biologically

correct frugivorous nature, he/she will automatically fall into manners

of living that abide more sensibly and sustainably with the life of the

rest of the planet. A person's journey to sensible living on the

planet and health is a long continuous journey filled with constant

refinements, learning, steady slow progress, casting off of old

unhealthy habits as one realizes them, and the adoptation of more

sensible habits as one gains the experience and required understandings

that allow one to see and realize them.

 

> Personally I eat with the seasons and with the intent to be aware

> of how my eating affects the health of the planet in addition to

> my individual health.

 

Yes, and this is an admirable pursuit, as it is necessary for all

biological creatures to do so should they desire health and long term

sustainability and exsistence of themselves and their appropriate

species. The human species is in an extremely complicated and long

developing crisis, and the way out will take a long time with much

effort. For the civilized individual human, the job is much easier than

for the civilized mass of the species. Within this great mess that

civilized, domesticated humans are caught, each human does the best

they can, while still being dependent on the whole of civilization for

his/her existence.

 

> That said, ENJOY THE REAL FRUITS OF SUMMER, all!

 

Aside from Chef Sprout's first comment, this is one of his few more

peaceable comments, if one ignores the condescending use of the

word 'real'. If this statement is the best that one can expect of Chef

Sprout, then one will have to just accept it and be positive about it.

Perhaps Chef Sprout might want to consider changing and correcting a

few elements of his diet so that he will think, speak, and act more in

accord with a happy, gregarious healthy human who follows the dictates

of biological life for a frugivorous species. Each to their own

transition schedule, as always.

 

I hope I have given others a pause for thought and reflection, and a

bit more of an understanding regarding the health topics that were

brought up. Enjoy durian, ripe fruits in season, and otherwise being

kind to the earth and making efforts to live sensibly, sustainably, and

healthfully.

 

Robert

[Guest guest]

Hi all,

 

I'm trying to sort out this posting/recieving trouble I'm having, so

please excuse me if I've made duplicate posts.

 

I'll start with a quote:

 

A lie could go halfway around the world before the truth even had a

chance to put its boots on - Mark Twain.

 

It is easy to spread false ideas by using disingenuous inuendos, but

it is much more difficult to bring truthful understanding to a

subject that has been so abused. For the sake of truthful discovery,

I'll add some important comments.

I reply to Chef Sprouts comments.

 

> I love Durians too!

 

That is very nice to hear. Durian is delicious and a true delight to

the frugivorous human species. A frugivore is a species that eats

predominantly of fruit, and the frugivourous nature or classification

is made apparent by the specie's biological, anatomical,

psychological, and physiological characteristics. Other

classifications, among many, are insectivore, herbivore, graminovore,

carnivore, omnivore.

 

A classification only reveals what a species primarily eats and is

best designed or suited to eat. A frugivore can and will also eat

various quantities of non-fruit foods, such as herbage, animal flesh,

grubs, seeds (nuts, grains), tubers and vegetables, and can and will

gain some advantage from eating these foods. However, these are

difficult to digest and are concentrated foods which the frugivourous

human is wise to eat in small quantites and non-regularly, since it's

digestive system is, by evolution, suited for the extremely easy-to-

digest fruits.

 

> And I'm wondering why anyone would want to buy $40 durians

> from halfway around the world when organic cherries, peaches,

> strawberries, etc., etc. are right now available everywhere

> grown locally!

 

Nora had purchased and eaten the durians two or more months ago when

the currently available crop of fresh fruits were not yet available.

Raw durian can be purchased, as a treat for those who are greatly

removed from the human specie's natural and normal environment (the

tropics), for 10 to 40 dollars, depending on quantity, quality, type,

and container (in fruit or removed).

The human being is a tropical creature, most evidently, as pointed

out by its hairlessness, nakedness without clothe, uncomfortableness

in temperatures below 75 degrees, " sweet tooth " , love for tree,

plant, and garden scenery, attraction to bright colours, wariness of

moving obscured objects, and more. Its normal and natural diet is

composed of predominantly tropical fruits. The civilized and

modernized human that returns to following its specie's more natural,

normal, and sensible behaviour will find that the tropical fruits are

most delightful and satisfying. The eating of the " king of the

tropical fruits " , or durian, by an indivudual so inclined to pursue

natural health, is not worthy of credible criticism. To criticize it

is to indulge in frivolous nit-pickyness.

 

> And I'm curious if anyone else sees the contradictions in the

> low-fat fruitarian contingent of this group being ga-ga over

> durians which are the fruit with the highest fat content of all

> fruits?!

 

Perhaps others do see a contradiction, but only because a full

understanding of the subject is not realized, intellectually. Using

terms like 'ga-ga' in the context of the post is the using of scorn

to ridicule others. Let us speak amicably and amiably if we are

revealing or discussing sensible issues and wishing to relay truthful

discovery and sensible thinking.

 

The low-fat " contingent " is pointing out, truthfully, that the excess

eating of concentrated foods, such as foods overly rich in fats, is

harmful to the human organism, consistent with the frugivorous nature

of the human species. The term fruitarian is a lay term that is used

to label people, and it does little justice to actual scientific or

rational revelation of the normal disposition of the human species.

Let us refrain from stereotyping, name calling, prejudices, and

making misleading categorizations when discussing important issues.

 

Durians are not high fat. They are slightly richer in nutrients than

the average temperate climate fruit, which is common for tropical

fruits and especially the more wild fruits of nature. Good informaton

on durian can be had at www.durian.timtyler.org. Other sites, such as

www.nutritiondata.com/index.html, reveal nutrient contents of more

foods. The following is a nutritional examination of durian.

 

In 100 grams (g) weight of average durian flesh, 164 Calories (Cals):

 

nutrient (g) % of weight Cals/g Cals % of Cals

water 66 66 0 C/g 0 0

carbs 27 27 4 C/g 109 66.5

fat 5.3 5.3 9 C/g 48 29

protein 1.7 1.7 4 C/g 7 4.5

____ _____ ___ _____

100 100 164 100

 

Note that within the carbohydrate total is fibre, which is

indigestible to us. Calorie content is determined by burning food in

a Calorimeter and heating water, unlike our digestive systems which

chemically digest food in other ways. The Calories in fibre are not

available to our digestive systems, and we do not use all Calories in

food, just like we do not use all the grams (mass) in a food (we

defecate and urinate unused portions).

 

For those that analyze a fruit's worth by nutrient weight, we see fat

is 5.3% of the TOTAL weight. For those that ananlyze a fruit's worth

by nutrient Calories, fat is 27 percent of the TOTAL calories in

durian.

 

In the table, note that water constitutes most of the durian (66%,

consistent for a fruit), that sugar (carbohydrates) constitutes most

of the nutrient content of the durian, especially from the Calorie

perspective, and that overall, durian is at the high end of fat

content for fruits but is consistent with a low fat, low protein,

higher sugar, high water content diet that is completely normal,

natural, and appropriate for the human species. At the most, one can

say that one should not eat too much durian, due to its high calorie

nature (most fruit is in the 50 to 100 Cal/g range).

 

Since the concern seems to be about fat content, particularly from a

Calorie perspective, by Chef Sprout, a comparison to other foods is

appropriate.

 

Food % Calories (of total Calories)

 

Avocados 77

Olives 72

Pecans 88

Brazil nuts 85

Walnuts 84

Almond 78

Cashews 70

Sunflower seeds 70

Sesame seeds 73

Cheddar Cheese 72

Whole Yoghurt 50

Farmed/Wild Salmon 54/40

Lean, trimmed Beef 48

Fruits:

Durian 27

Rowal 15

Feijoa 14

Sapodilla 11

Raspberries 11

Prickly pears 10

Blackberries 10

Kumquats 9

Strawberres 8

Rhubarb 8

Apricots 7

Watermelon 5

Apple 4

 

It's important to note that durian is dramatically well below the

level of fat calories exhibited by truly high fat foods, such as

avocados, animal products, and nuts and seeds.

 

Though durian tops the list of fruits for fat calorie content, it is

still a low fat food compared to non-fruit foods. It is for its

higher fruit-fat content that durian gets its well deserved

name " king of the fruits " . The higher fat content results in more

comfortable, pleasing, tasty feelings when eating the fruit.

Hormones that our bodies manufacture, which are deeply involved with

our feelings, are largely modified fat molecules. As well, fats are

largely responsible for giving pleasing, smooth texture and taste to

foods. It is no wonder why raw foodist who return to a natural,

normal diet for the human species are enamored with durian, but

wisely eat it in smaller quanities than other delicious and equally

beneficial fruits.

 

> Or is it the Natural Hygiene contingent is craving fat, to

> the point of ignoring the juicy sweet local abundance in

> order to waste their $ on non-organic food whose additional

> costs are to the planet through the waste created by shipping,

> packaging, etc?

 

The clear answer to this " question " is no. Durian is a normal and

natural, low-fat fruit to eat. Natural Hygiene recommends, but not

limited to, eating ripe, preferably organic, in season, fresh, whole,

non-dried or non-concentrated, high water content, succulent,

flavourable, aesthetically pleasing, aromatic, sweet, easily

digested, and otherwise sensually pleasing fruits, as the main part

of a diet that include other elements that are normal and natural to

a frugivorous diet (including nuts, seeds, legumes, vegetables, and

such, and even tiny amounts of animal products or grains for some, if

desired).

 

Though in the previous paragraph Chef Sprout referred to fruitarians

and in the next paragraph referred to Hygienists (implying that the

two are the same), it needs to be stressed that Hygienists are not

fruitarians, and that Hygiene is the study and implementation of all

those factor elements that pertain to human health and welfare, which

includes the study and recommended eating of the foods that are

appropriate for and harmonious to the frugivorous human species.

 

Regarding costs to the planet regarding waste production, it is

abusive argument to suggest that Hygienists, fruitarians, or any

other similar minded health seekers are lacking in their efforts or

negligent overall, as these people are already immensely and vastly

reducing their impact on the earth by eating raw foods that are, for

the most part, unpackaged, are by-and-large involving much reduced

transportation, not to mention that they are treating themselves,

others, and the earth much more gently than any cooked-fooder or

health-negligent person comes near to.

 

> Basically, I think that the " ONE DIET IS OPTIMAL FOR ALL PEOPLE

> ALL THE TIME " fruit fanatics would do us all a favor and attempt

> to understand that each us are biochemically different, have

> different body types, etc. and need to eat according to what

> works for us AND FOR THE PLANET.

 

Here again, after Chef Sprout has used the words 'fruitarian' and

the 'natural hygiene contingent' he is now resorting to 'fruit

fanatics' after the derisive use of 'ga-ga'. Honestly, what is this

Chef Sprout character's real objective? This technique that he uses

is called Personal Attack, or Ad Hominen Abusive and is favoured by

those who wish to illegitimately discredit others by substituting

abusive remarks for evidence and logical analysis. Ie, attack the

person instead of the claim itself.

 

Chef Sprout utilizes the Straw Man fallacy as he portrays fanatics

(fruitarians, hygienists, if one is to follow the implied meanings of

his suggestive talk) as saying that " one diet is optimal for all

people all of the time " . No one is saying this, and Chef Sprout is

exagerating and putting words in the mouth's of others, out of

context, in order to give his own argument apparent legitimacy. Ie,

falsely bash the opposition, then promote oneself as correct because

one disagrees with and doesn't follow what the oppostion has been

falsely claimed to be doing.

 

For considerations on what constitutes legitimate and/or false

arguments, see www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/personal-attack.html

 

Hygiene reveals that for the human species, there is an optimal

general diet that is consistent with the frugivorous human species,

just as there are optimal general diets for other species that are

carnivorous (animal flesh), herbivorous (eat grasses, plants),

insectivorous (insects, grubs), graminovorous (grains), omnivorous

(eat everything, like pigs and bears, and dogs to a small extent) and

so on. It will be observed that the tens of thousands of biological

species out there eat mainly one food type, one thing at a time, and

otherwise simply, unlike the domesticated, civilized human being that

has taught itself, unwisely, to eat everything under the sun that

moves or doesn't move. Just add sugar (sweet), flavouring (tasty),

and texture (creamy, succulent), to make it more like fruit, and its

palatable.

 

Hygiene teaches us that there is an optimal diet, but that each

person who is currently following the conventional habits of our

civilized cultures, if they are truly interested in returning to

sensible, normal, and natural health habits, will have to transition

themselves either slowly, quickly, or at some other preferred rate

from their grieviously poor diet to a much more simple diet that is

reflected by and consistent with the rest of the bilogical world's

habits on earth. It is only civilized humans and their domesticated

animals that are so extreme and careless in their eating habits, and

which civilized humans and domesticated animals at the same time

are " mysteriously " mired down in endless and incomparable diseases.

What can be expected to happen when a wrench is thrown into a finely

operating machine? The wrench is wrongul foods and other poor dietary

habits, and the finely operating machine is the human body.

 

Hygiene, if actually studied, underlines the fact that an optimal

diet is what we humans need to strive for, not one that we can

instantly have. A long transition period is required, taking many

years of effort combined with dutiful efforts in other areas of life

that impact health (physical, mental, and emotional). As well, the

optimal diet is variable within its bounds (frugivorous), meaning all

days are not the same, the diet has variety over the year, different

foods are eaten, periods of no eating/less eating/more eating occur,

and much more.

 

Hygiene is careful to note that the members of each species are

extremely biochemically similar, unlike Chef Sprout would have us

believe. In fact, all life forms follow the same biological laws that

govern all life on earth. Similarly, the physical laws that govern

earth, such as gravity, electricty, density, hydrodynamics, etc, also

govern other planets and structures in the universe.

Biological laws clearly state that the organism that eats contrary to

its evolved, natural, and normal adaptations and structure, will

experience discomfort, malfunction, mal-growth, erratic behaviour,

and problem after problem, all of which fall under the general

descriptive word 'dis-ease'. 'Ease' means freedom from physical

discomfort or mental agitation, and 'dis' is a prefix meaning not,

negative, no, etc. Dis-ease means not at ease. The word disease is

the word dis-ease without the dash, for easier writing purposes. It's

that simple.

 

It is true that modern civilized humans have different body types,

but only as a modern classification of the different ways bodies can

deteriorate and appear after following poor habits. These appearances

are due to the innumerable ways the human body can break down while

dealing with the innumerable variety and quantity of false practices

put upon it. The eating of foods that are not compatible with a

frugivorous diet does not suddenly or slowly change a human into a

carnivore, a herbivore, an insectivore, a graminovore, or an

omnivore. The human still retains the organs that constitute its

anatomical structure, and these organs still strive to operate

optimally and according to their abilities, despite the hardships

they are being forced to endure and attempt to overcome and the

change in form and fuctionality that results from this long-term

abuse.

 

Let us not go to self-rationalizing, excusive, ill-informed thinking

in our attempts to legitimize those habits of ours that are truly

still derelict and inconsistent with the truthful frugivorous nature

of the human species. Let us be reminded, as an extreme example, that

even the alcoholic promotes the idea that he/she is somehow

unaffected by poisonous drinking habits, and that they have special

abilities to benefit from alcohol and avoid its harmfulness.

 

As the human being begins to eat more in harmony with its

biologically correct frugivorous nature, he/she will automatically

fall into manners of living that abide more sensibly and sustainably

with the life of the rest of the planet. A person's journey to

sensible living on the planet and health is a long continuous journey

filled with constant refinements, learning, steady slow progress,

casting off of old unhealthy habits as one realizes them, and the

adoptation of more sensible habits as one gains the experience and

required understandings that allow one to see and realize them.

 

> Personally I eat with the seasons and with the intent to be aware

> of how my eating affects the health of the planet in addition to

> my individual health.

 

Yes, and this is an admirable pursuit, as it is necessary for all

biological creatures to do so should they desire health and long term

sustainability and exsistence of themselves and their appropriate

species. The civilized human species is in an extremely complicated

and long developing crisis, and the way out will take a long time

with much effort, if its even possible. For the civilized individual

human, the job is much easier than for the civilized mass of the

species. Within this great mess that civilized, domesticated humans

are caught, each human does the best they can, while still being

dependent on the whole of civilization for his/her existence.

 

> That said, ENJOY THE REAL FRUITS OF SUMMER, all!

 

Aside from Chef Sprout's first comment, this is one of his few more

peaceable comments, if one ignores the condescending use of the

word 'real'. If this statement is the best that one can expect of

Chef Sprout, then one will have to just accept it and be positive

about it.

 

I hope I have given others a pause for thought and reflection, and a

bit more of an understanding regarding the health topics that were

brought up. Enjoy durian, ripe fruits in season, and otherwise being

kind to the earth and making efforts to live sensibly, sustainably,

and healthfully.

 

Robert

[Guest guest]

Gael,

 

You stated,

 

>Since Robert has now sent his message to Chef Sprout to the whole

>list, I understand Chef Sprout's appropriate response in context.

>Robert's message does not belong on this list, and I'm wondering how

>we all received it given the reminders we recently received from you,

>Jeff, and which I'm now even more grateful for.

 

For the sake of clarity, I sent my message to the group at the very

first and only to the group, then and afterwards. Somehow only Chef

Sprout recieved it, apparently.

 

I strongly replied to Chef Sprout's lack of careful thinking and

presentation of argument. Carelessness in communication leads to

errors in thoughts and subsequent actions, and incites general

confusion in important matters.

 

I'm very open to discussing concepts and ideas with persons who

demonstrate a mature, considerate, logic based manner of expression

and who refrain from using innuendos and otherwise talking

backhandedly in order to gain support for their arguments.

 

Sincerely, Robert

 

Hopefully this email went through. I very irregularly recieve

confirmations, views of all posts on the board, etc due to features

in the system.

[Guest guest]

enough already everyone - let everybody eat and enjoy, or not, anything they

desire. i don't find reading any of this sort of post helpful, which is perhaps

one reason I removed myself from the list several years ago to begin with (or

maybe it was just the sheer volume of posts)...

asya

 

Anthony D'Atri <aad wrote: >

> In answers to questions backhandedly posed, a person eats durian

> because they taste very good

 

Remember that to most people the stuff tastes like moldy socks that

have been forgotten in the washer for two weeks, then soaked in

kerosene.

 

> and are a normal part of a healthy diet

> for the human species.

 

So, humans normally should only be living in southeast Asia?