Reasons to go raw

[Guest guest]

Hi,

 

Am I the only one that is going raw for health reasons as opposed to

animal rights issues? I ask because I bought a book then went on and

on about the moral righteousness of veganism. It started to sound

like religion.......................which doesn't suit :-) In fact,

I've already taken to describing this " experiment " to friends as a

decision not to be simple " pain in the a _ _ " ( ovo-lacto genarian)

but to be a " REAL pain in the A_ _! " (raw vegan).

 

Seems if I fess up to being a pain in the butt, people feel relieved

that they don't have to explain that to me:-) I figure if I feel

better and coincidentally look better that what I eat speaks for itself.

 

rookielynn

[Guest guest]

At the Raw Retreat this summer Gabrielle Cousins said " This is not a religion. "

and we want to help raw fooders " be successful " Those are two really important

points to me. I am here for health reasons. Also I want to help change the

cruel way that animals are treated. (Killing and eating meat is not inheritanty

cruel, imo, but the mass system we have is, and there is mass denial/

disconnect about that.)

 

I want there to be enough awareness about good raw vegan food so that it is a

normal option. I want there to be deli's in every neighborhood where I can get

a good meal.

But getting to that place in our world a big political economic thang

.....dang.

It not just about explaining to people that this is good for them.

 

So, I totally agree that the best thing is to eat this way for ourselves, and

if we look better and feel better, then maybe our friends and family will ask

how come we are looking better and feeling better.

 

Terri

 

welltrainedmonkey wrote:

Hi,

 

Am I the only one that is going raw for health reasons as opposed to

animal rights issues? I ask because I bought a book then went on and

on about the moral righteousness of veganism. It started to sound

like religion.......................which doesn't suit :-) In fact,

I've already taken to describing this " experiment " to friends as a

decision not to be simple " pain in the a _ _ " ( ovo-lacto genarian)

but to be a " REAL pain in the A_ _! " (raw vegan).

 

Seems if I fess up to being a pain in the butt, people feel relieved

that they don't have to explain that to me:-) I figure if I feel

better and coincidentally look better that what I eat speaks for itself.

 

rookielynn

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Access over 1 million songs - Music Unlimited Try it today.

 

 

[Guest guest]

Now throw in the impact meat eating has on the planet as far as pollution and

we've pretty much covered 99% of the reasons people go raw.

 

I started out for health reasons (both parents died young due to diet related

diseases) and evolved to compassionate reasons to simiplicity reasons and

eventually will get to earthly reasons.

 

It's easy to prepare, eat and clean up when you are eating mono meals. Now if I

could only live where I can grow tropical fruits year

round..........................

 

Shari

 

 

[Guest guest]

> Am I the only one that is going raw for health reasons as opposed to

> animal rights issues?

 

To be clear, AR is a reason to go vegan, but isn't a factor for

cooking / not cooking food. Most of the raw people I've talked to

aren't vegan, which initially was something of a surprise.

 

> I ask because I bought a book then went on and

> on about the moral righteousness of veganism. It started to sound

> like religion.......................which doesn't suit :-)

 

So find another book. While ethics (or environmental impact) alone

are plenty compelling for a vegan lifestyle, in my outreach efforts I

find that many people are more receptive to discussions of

nutrition. I highly recommend T. Colin Campbell's " The China

Study " . The author advocates a strict vegetarian diet but isn't vegan.

 

> In fact, I've already taken to describing this " experiment " to

> friends as a

> decision not to be simple " pain in the a _ _ " ( ovo-lacto genarian)

> but to be a " REAL pain in the A_ _! " (raw vegan).

 

Genarian? Did you mean " vegetarian " ? I like Howard Lyman's

description of milk as " liquid meat without the iron " . Ovo-lactos,

honestly, are omnivores who happen to not eat flesh.

 

> At the Raw Retreat this summer Gabrielle Cousins said " This is not

> a religion. "

 

HAHAHHA there's a good one. This is the " disoriented water " guy?

Why can so few people get his name right? True, for him it's not a

religion, in the sense that Scientology wasn't a religion for L. Ron

Hubbard: it's a goldmine.

 

> Also I want to help change the cruel way that animals are treated.

> (Killing and eating meat is not inheritanty cruel, imo, but the

> mass system we have is, and there is mass denial/ disconnect about

> that.)

 

Vivisection is sociopathy, no matter what the scale.

 

> I want there to be enough awareness about good raw vegan food so

> that it is a normal option. I want there to be deli's in every

> neighborhood where I can get a good meal.

> But getting to that place in our world a big political economic

> thang ....dang.

> It not just about explaining to people that this is good for them.

 

There are a number of things that will have to change for the above

to happen on any nontrivial scale. These aren't personal attacks,

but unfortunately the first below belies the fact that somebody out

there won't understand that.

 

o Be at least somewhat literate when discussing a raw diet. Spell

names and other words correctly. Use apostrophes at least at a

fourth-grade level. Don't make up words.

o Bathe regularly and have a career, or at least a real job.

Dumpster diving isn't a real job.

o If you want a raw diet to be considered a refined vegan diet -- and

to appeal to vegans -- lose the honey. I've encountered raw people

who use the stuff like crazy, don't disclose it as an ingredient in a

prepared dish, or assume that everyone eats it. Like it or not, bug

puke is an animal product.

o Decide what " raw " actually means, and stick to it. Admit that a

specific temperature threshold is in fact fairly arbitrary and that

there are diminishing returns here, but do agree on one. Is it 95F,

115F, 150F, or what? If you want to debate whether or not any cacao

is truly raw, or claim that the dirt in Brittany salt is

nutritionally significant, that's your legal right, but admit that

you're firmly into the background noise nutritionally.

o Skip the pseudo-science. If you're going to talk about enzymes and

" toxins " , *name* them. Better yet, don't talk about them at all, as

making things up out of thin air erodes your credibility with the

world at large.

o Stick to the the core idea that cooking food by and large destroys

nutrients and leave the metaphysics and conspiracy theories out of

it. If you talk to a deli owner or restaurant chef about " quantum

touch healing " or about how AIDS is a hoax, you're less likely to be

taken seriously and thus to get what you want.

o As for leading by example ... conduct yourself as though you

personally believe that a raw strict vegetarian diet is healthful,

and not simply a way to fleece marks out of large sums of cash.

Don't write a large book that isn't available through normal channels

that repeatedly touts a raw diet for weight loss, then show up on TV

having gained 30 pounds over your cover photo. If your only

involvement in the community is to charge $250 to teach someone how

to use a blender or to listen to you read your [plagiarized] web

site, or disguise your for-profit business as a " co-op " , then you're

going to come off as an exploiter of fad dieters, giving the whole

idea of not cooking food to death an aura of a fad diet rather than

one based in reason and reality.

[Guest guest]

Sheesh. I didn't quite get to the end of your " non attack. "

I am frankly shocked at such rudeness on a list that I thought had the intent

to be a support group.

 

tzs

 

 

Anthony D'Atri <aad wrote:

 

> Am I the only one that is going raw for health reasons as opposed to

> animal rights issues?

 

To be clear, AR is a reason to go vegan, but isn't a factor for

cooking / not cooking food. Most of the raw people I've talked to

aren't vegan, which initially was something of a surprise.

 

> I ask because I bought a book then went on and

> on about the moral righteousness of veganism. It started to sound

> like religion.......................which doesn't suit :-)

 

So find another book. While ethics (or environmental impact) alone

are plenty compelling for a vegan lifestyle, in my outreach efforts I

find that many people are more receptive to discussions of

nutrition. I highly recommend T. Colin Campbell's " The China

Study " . The author advocates a strict vegetarian diet but isn't vegan.

 

> In fact, I've already taken to describing this " experiment " to

> friends as a

> decision not to be simple " pain in the a _ _ " ( ovo-lacto genarian)

> but to be a " REAL pain in the A_ _! " (raw vegan).

 

Genarian? Did you mean " vegetarian " ? I like Howard Lyman's

description of milk as " liquid meat without the iron " . Ovo-lactos,

honestly, are omnivores who happen to not eat flesh.

 

> At the Raw Retreat this summer Gabrielle Cousins said " This is not

> a religion. "

 

HAHAHHA there's a good one. This is the " disoriented water " guy?

Why can so few people get his name right? True, for him it's not a

religion, in the sense that Scientology wasn't a religion for L. Ron

Hubbard: it's a goldmine.

 

> Also I want to help change the cruel way that animals are treated.

> (Killing and eating meat is not inheritanty cruel, imo, but the

> mass system we have is, and there is mass denial/ disconnect about

> that.)

 

Vivisection is sociopathy, no matter what the scale.

 

> I want there to be enough awareness about good raw vegan food so

> that it is a normal option. I want there to be deli's in every

> neighborhood where I can get a good meal.

> But getting to that place in our world a big political economic

> thang ....dang.

> It not just about explaining to people that this is good for them.

 

There are a number of things that will have to change for the above

to happen on any nontrivial scale. These aren't personal attacks,

but unfortunately the first below belies the fact that somebody out

there won't understand that.

 

o Be at least somewhat literate when discussing a raw diet. Spell

names and other words correctly. Use apostrophes at least at a

fourth-grade level. Don't make up words.

o Bathe regularly and have a career, or at least a real job.

Dumpster diving isn't a real job.

o If you want a raw diet to be considered a refined vegan diet -- and

to appeal to vegans -- lose the honey. I've encountered raw people

who use the stuff like crazy, don't disclose it as an ingredient in a

prepared dish, or assume that everyone eats it. Like it or not, bug

puke is an animal product.

o Decide what " raw " actually means, and stick to it. Admit that a

specific temperature threshold is in fact fairly arbitrary and that

there are diminishing returns here, but do agree on one. Is it 95F,

115F, 150F, or what? If you want to debate whether or not any cacao

is truly raw, or claim that the dirt in Brittany salt is

nutritionally significant, that's your legal right, but admit that

you're firmly into the background noise nutritionally.

o Skip the pseudo-science. If you're going to talk about enzymes and

" toxins " , *name* them. Better yet, don't talk about them at all, as

making things up out of thin air erodes your credibility with the

world at large.

o Stick to the the core idea that cooking food by and large destroys

nutrients and leave the metaphysics and conspiracy theories out of

it. If you talk to a deli owner or restaurant chef about " quantum

touch healing " or about how AIDS is a hoax, you're less likely to be

taken seriously and thus to get what you want.

o As for leading by example ... conduct yourself as though you

personally believe that a raw strict vegetarian diet is healthful,

and not simply a way to fleece marks out of large sums of cash.

Don't write a large book that isn't available through normal channels

that repeatedly touts a raw diet for weight loss, then show up on TV

having gained 30 pounds over your cover photo. If your only

involvement in the community is to charge $250 to teach someone how

to use a blender or to listen to you read your [plagiarized] web

site, or disguise your for-profit business as a " co-op " , then you're

going to come off as an exploiter of fad dieters, giving the whole

idea of not cooking food to death an aura of a fad diet rather than

one based in reason and reality.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Low, Low, Low Rates! Check out Messenger's cheap PC-to-Phone call rates.

 

 

[Guest guest]

M-x miss-point

 

> Sheesh. I didn't quite get to the end of your " non attack. "

> I am frankly shocked at such rudeness on a list that I thought

> had the intent to be a support group.

>

> tzs

>

>

> Anthony D'Atri <aad wrote:

>

>> Am I the only one that is going raw for health reasons as opposed to

>> animal rights issues?

>

> To be clear, AR is a reason to go vegan, but isn't a factor for

> cooking / not cooking food. Most of the raw people I've talked to

> aren't vegan, which initially was something of a surprise.

>

>> I ask because I bought a book then went on and

>> on about the moral righteousness of veganism. It started to sound

>> like religion.......................which doesn't suit :-)

>

> So find another book. While ethics (or environmental impact) alone

> are plenty compelling for a vegan lifestyle, in my outreach efforts I

> find that many people are more receptive to discussions of

> nutrition. I highly recommend T. Colin Campbell's " The China

> Study " . The author advocates a strict vegetarian diet but isn't vegan.

>

>> In fact, I've already taken to describing this " experiment " to

>> friends as a

>> decision not to be simple " pain in the a _ _ " ( ovo-lacto genarian)

>> but to be a " REAL pain in the A_ _! " (raw vegan).

>

> Genarian? Did you mean " vegetarian " ? I like Howard Lyman's

> description of milk as " liquid meat without the iron " . Ovo-lactos,

> honestly, are omnivores who happen to not eat flesh.

>

>> At the Raw Retreat this summer Gabrielle Cousins said " This is not

>> a religion. "

>

> HAHAHHA there's a good one. This is the " disoriented water " guy?

> Why can so few people get his name right? True, for him it's not a

> religion, in the sense that Scientology wasn't a religion for L. Ron

> Hubbard: it's a goldmine.

>

>> Also I want to help change the cruel way that animals are treated.

>> (Killing and eating meat is not inheritanty cruel, imo, but the

>> mass system we have is, and there is mass denial/ disconnect about

>> that.)

>

> Vivisection is sociopathy, no matter what the scale.

>

>> I want there to be enough awareness about good raw vegan food so

>> that it is a normal option. I want there to be deli's in every

>> neighborhood where I can get a good meal.

>> But getting to that place in our world a big political economic

>> thang ....dang.

>> It not just about explaining to people that this is good for them.

>

> There are a number of things that will have to change for the above

> to happen on any nontrivial scale. These aren't personal attacks,

> but unfortunately the first below belies the fact that somebody out

> there won't understand that.

>

> o Be at least somewhat literate when discussing a raw diet. Spell

> names and other words correctly. Use apostrophes at least at a

> fourth-grade level. Don't make up words.

> o Bathe regularly and have a career, or at least a real job.

> Dumpster diving isn't a real job.

> o If you want a raw diet to be considered a refined vegan diet -- and

> to appeal to vegans -- lose the honey. I've encountered raw people

> who use the stuff like crazy, don't disclose it as an ingredient in a

> prepared dish, or assume that everyone eats it. Like it or not, bug

> puke is an animal product.

> o Decide what " raw " actually means, and stick to it. Admit that a

> specific temperature threshold is in fact fairly arbitrary and that

> there are diminishing returns here, but do agree on one. Is it 95F,

> 115F, 150F, or what? If you want to debate whether or not any cacao

> is truly raw, or claim that the dirt in Brittany salt is

> nutritionally significant, that's your legal right, but admit that

> you're firmly into the background noise nutritionally.

> o Skip the pseudo-science. If you're going to talk about enzymes and

> " toxins " , *name* them. Better yet, don't talk about them at all, as

> making things up out of thin air erodes your credibility with the

> world at large.

> o Stick to the the core idea that cooking food by and large destroys

> nutrients and leave the metaphysics and conspiracy theories out of

> it. If you talk to a deli owner or restaurant chef about " quantum

> touch healing " or about how AIDS is a hoax, you're less likely to be

> taken seriously and thus to get what you want.

> o As for leading by example ... conduct yourself as though you

> personally believe that a raw strict vegetarian diet is healthful,

> and not simply a way to fleece marks out of large sums of cash.

> Don't write a large book that isn't available through normal channels

> that repeatedly touts a raw diet for weight loss, then show up on TV

> having gained 30 pounds over your cover photo. If your only

> involvement in the community is to charge $250 to teach someone how

> to use a blender or to listen to you read your [plagiarized] web

> site, or disguise your for-profit business as a " co-op " , then you're

> going to come off as an exploiter of fad dieters, giving the whole

> idea of not cooking food to death an aura of a fad diet rather than

> one based in reason and reality.

 

> Low, Low, Low Rates! Check out Messenger's cheap PC-to-

> Phone call rates.

>

>

[Guest guest]

>Hi Anthony,

 

WoW!!! You have a great sense of humor!!!! THANK YOU!! One book I

read did talk about honey being non vegan which to be honest I never

thought about. I did not understand, though, how raw people may not

be vegan. They eat steak tartar? :-) raw eggs? or honey? hm.....I'm

still trying to figure that one out.

 

Yes, for many the AR position on veganism is compelling. I'm not

clever or vigilant enough to be " orthodox vegan " :-) Though the AR

issue, IME, is a pleasant occurrence, I am strongly encouraged in the

raw pursuit, oddly enough, because of a positive environmental

impact. Just read Dr. Graham's " Grain Damage " . He brought out some

fascinating insights. Also he's a living breathing example that raw

doesn't mean weak and frail. Sorry I do wonder about some of the

most peculiar potentialities :-) .

 

PS: did read the China Study AWESOME!!!!! It's the books I give to

everyone and tell them if they can read it cover to cover and not

succumb to the urge to pitch out all animal products, I'll buy the

book back from them. MOST compelling

 

Thank you for your post....as usual very helpful :-)

rookielynn

 

 

> > Am I the only one that is going raw for health reasons as opposed to

> > animal rights issues?

>

>To be clear, AR is a reason to go vegan, but isn't a factor for

>cooking / not cooking food. Most of the raw people I've talked to

>aren't vegan, which initially was something of a surprise.

>

> > I ask because I bought a book then went on and

> > on about the moral righteousness of veganism. It started to sound

> > like religion.......................which doesn't suit :-)

>

>So find another book. While ethics (or environmental impact) alone

>are plenty compelling for a vegan lifestyle, in my outreach efforts I

>find that many people are more receptive to discussions of

>nutrition. I highly recommend T. Colin Campbell's " The China

>Study " . The author advocates a strict vegetarian diet but isn't vegan.

>

> > In fact, I've already taken to describing this " experiment " to

> > friends as a

> > decision not to be simple " pain in the a _ _ " ( ovo-lacto genarian)

> > but to be a " REAL pain in the A_ _! " (raw vegan).

>

>Genarian? Did you mean " vegetarian " ? I like Howard Lyman's

>description of milk as " liquid meat without the iron " . Ovo-lactos,

>honestly, are omnivores who happen to not eat flesh.

>

> > At the Raw Retreat this summer Gabrielle Cousins said " This is not

> > a religion. "

>

>HAHAHHA there's a good one. This is the " disoriented water " guy?

>Why can so few people get his name right? True, for him it's not a

>religion, in the sense that Scientology wasn't a religion for L. Ron

>Hubbard: it's a goldmine.

>

> > Also I want to help change the cruel way that animals are treated.

> > (Killing and eating meat is not inheritanty cruel, imo, but the

> > mass system we have is, and there is mass denial/ disconnect about

> > that.)

>

>Vivisection is sociopathy, no matter what the scale.

>

> > I want there to be enough awareness about good raw vegan food so

> > that it is a normal option. I want there to be deli's in every

> > neighborhood where I can get a good meal.

> > But getting to that place in our world a big political economic

> > thang ....dang.

> > It not just about explaining to people that this is good for them.

>

>There are a number of things that will have to change for the above

>to happen on any nontrivial scale. These aren't personal attacks,

>but unfortunately the first below belies the fact that somebody out

>there won't understand that.

>

>o Be at least somewhat literate when discussing a raw diet. Spell

>names and other words correctly. Use apostrophes at least at a

>fourth-grade level. Don't make up words.

>o Bathe regularly and have a career, or at least a real job.

>Dumpster diving isn't a real job.

>o If you want a raw diet to be considered a refined vegan diet -- and

>to appeal to vegans -- lose the honey. I've encountered raw people

>who use the stuff like crazy, don't disclose it as an ingredient in a

>prepared dish, or assume that everyone eats it. Like it or not, bug

>puke is an animal product.

>o Decide what " raw " actually means, and stick to it. Admit that a

>specific temperature threshold is in fact fairly arbitrary and that

>there are diminishing returns here, but do agree on one. Is it 95F,

>115F, 150F, or what? If you want to debate whether or not any cacao

>is truly raw, or claim that the dirt in Brittany salt is

>nutritionally significant, that's your legal right, but admit that

>you're firmly into the background noise nutritionally.

>o Skip the pseudo-science. If you're going to talk about enzymes and

> " toxins " , *name* them. Better yet, don't talk about them at all, as

>making things up out of thin air erodes your credibility with the

>world at large.

>o Stick to the the core idea that cooking food by and large destroys

>nutrients and leave the metaphysics and conspiracy theories out of

>it. If you talk to a deli owner or restaurant chef about " quantum

>touch healing " or about how AIDS is a hoax, you're less likely to be

>taken seriously and thus to get what you want.

>o As for leading by example ... conduct yourself as though you

>personally believe that a raw strict vegetarian diet is healthful,

>and not simply a way to fleece marks out of large sums of cash.

>Don't write a large book that isn't available through normal channels

>that repeatedly touts a raw diet for weight loss, then show up on TV

>having gained 30 pounds over your cover photo. If your only

>involvement in the community is to charge $250 to teach someone how

>to use a blender or to listen to you read your [plagiarized] web

>site, or disguise your for-profit business as a " co-op " , then you're

>going to come off as an exploiter of fad dieters, giving the whole

>idea of not cooking food to death an aura of a fad diet rather than

>one based in reason and reality.

>

>

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

> read did talk about honey being non vegan which to be honest I never

> thought about.

 

It's long been a point of some contention, but IMHO the line is less

arbitrarily drawn in favor of not exploiting bees.

 

> I did not understand, though, how raw people may not

> be vegan. They eat steak tartar? :-) raw eggs? or honey? hm.....I'm

> still trying to figure that one out.

 

Depending on how one defines " raw people " . I've encountered folks

who are effectively omnivores but trying to eat mostly a raw strict

vegetarian diet. Apparently there are also those who mistake raw

meat or raw dairy for food, though I don't know that I've encountered

any personally. Maybe the dangerous strains of E. Coli etc. make

them a self-limiting sect. Strictly speaking a vegan endeavors to

not exploit and especially not harm animals, and the term connotes a

belief that doing so is ethically wrong. Many raw people I've

encountered don't *eat* meat/dairy, but have no problem wearing skins

ripped from vivisected animals. Some people write " dietary vegan " ,

but the term " strict vegetarian " is more accurate. I acknowledge

that accurate language is something of an uphill battle, though more

than a few people have told me " I'm not vegan " more or less explicitly.

 

> Yes, for many the AR position on veganism is compelling. I'm not

> clever or vigilant enough to be " orthodox vegan " :-)

 

Level 5 vegan: doesn't eat anything that casts a shadow

 

> fascinating insights. Also he's a living breathing example that raw

> doesn't mean weak and frail. Sorry I do wonder about some of the

> most peculiar potentialities :-) .

 

I've met a few raw people who did seem weak and frail, but I have no

reason to assume causality -- they seemed as they they probably were

when eating an omni diet, maybe more so.