Guest guest Posted February 1, 2010 Report Share Posted February 1, 2010 Normally, I leave things be but something just feels a bit stale to me and I felt like addressing it. You know this venue has been amazing to me and I have seen it grow from a MD VA DC African-American raw group to a multi-cultural international social network. I just have to say that I have a personal vested interest in educating and promoting the raw lifestyle. I implemented the 21 Day Raw Food Challenge in Baltimore 5 years ago when there were no restaurants in the Baltimore area making any real raw food cuisine, except the Yabba Pot. So, David, for you to condemn the Yabba Pot does feel like a personal attack. And I do love Liquid Earth as well, I guess it was how you carried it…And this has not been the first time you have done this. We all are entitled to our opinions. I don’t know maybe I am sensitive to the fact that you are potentially taking business away from my former café. I wouldn’t expect that from an individual who I personally hosted in my home. It doesn’t feel groovy to me. If it were me, I would have probably just said…â€Liquid Earth is another good option.†But instead you ranted about how your family was more impressed with Liquid Earth. I don’t know… Im not trying to be a pain about it…I just feel like I was disrespected and I don’t think you presented that tactfully at all. I mean David we have hung out in many Raw venues in the area, many of which I organized. I think you should consider how you present your opinion in the future. All of the Raw-ish café’s are absolutely great!…no one mentioned Zia’s in Towson either. I think that the Yabba Pot is a great venue for a party because it offers not only raw but vegan cuisine for those who are not doing raw, and it has the space for about 25 people. The new owner, Yul Hicks, bought the café from me in Dec and we happened to meet at one of my 21 Day Raw Food Challenges. That is my peace… Chef Skai Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 1, 2010 Report Share Posted February 1, 2010 With all due respect for all who decide to read the posts on this email list, I never "condemned" the Yabba Pot or "ranted" about how great I might think Liquid Earth is. It's very far from perfect, as are all restaurants in Baltimore & the surrounding vicinity, but I searched high & low for a restaurant last October that would appeal to my raw vegan inclinations, since Loving Life Cafe closed & was curious about what Liquid Earth had to offer, since I was initially very skeptical, as I tend to be. This was the first time in over a year that I'd be eating outside my home. I go to restaurants less often than I go to a movie theater, which is maybe once or twice a year. I see no reason to overstate the tone or context of my prior comments in response to one of the member's request for feedback on Liquid Earth. There's no reason for superficial debates in this forum when there are so many far more consequential issues in this society to confront. Your (somewhat expected) reaction is one of the key reasons I generally avoid posting anything on this list, knowing too many people in this venue make the environment akin to walking on egg shells across a bed of hot coals, which is not my idea of a walk in the park. Pardon me for interloping with what I humbly believed was deserved praise from a tough critic, not to mention my parents, who are much fussier in the vegetarian culinary area than I'd ever be, knowing their carnivorous appetites, particularly that of my father who seems to take me to such places just to please me, regardless of his own contrarian appetite. Namaste, David "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." --Benjamin Franklin "Patriotism means to stand by the country. It does not mean to stand by the president or any other public official save exactly to the degree in which he himself stands by the country. It is patriotic to support him insofar as he efficiently serves the country. It is unpatriotic not to oppose him to the exact extent that by inefficiency or otherwise he fails in his duty to stand by the country." --Pres. Theodore Roosevelt, 1908 Skai Juice <Bushtea Sun, Jan 31, 2010 9:32 pm With all due respect for Skai? Normally, I leave things be but something just feels a bit stale to me and I felt like addressing it. You know this venue has been amazing to me and I have seen it grow from a MD VA DC African-American raw group to a multi-cultural international social network. I just have to say that I have a personal vested interest in educating and promoting the raw lifestyle. I implemented the 21 Day Raw Food Challenge in Baltimore 5 years ago when there were no restaurants in the Baltimore area making any real raw food cuisine, except the Yabba Pot. So, David, for you to condemn the Yabba Pot does feel like a personal attack. And I do love Liquid Earth as well, I guess it was how you carried it…And this has not been the first time you have done this. We all are entitled to our opinions. I don’t know maybe I am sensitive to the fact that you are potentially taking business away from my former café. I wouldn’t expect that from an individual who I personally hosted in my home. It doesn’t feel groovy to me. If it were me, I would have probably just said…â€Liquid Earth is another good option.†But instead you ranted about how your family was more impressed with Liquid Earth. I don’t know… Im not trying to be a pain about it…I just feel like I was disrespected and I don’t think you presented that tactfully at all. I mean David we have hung out in many Raw venues in the area, many of which I organized. I think you should consider how you present your opinion in the future. All of the Raw-ish café’s are absolutely great!…no one mentioned Zia’s in Towson either. I think that the Yabba Pot is a great venue for a party because it offers not only raw but vegan cuisine for those who are not doing raw, and it has the space for about 25 people. The new owner, Yul Hicks, bought the café from me in Dec and we happened to meet at one of my 21 Day Raw Food Challenges. That is my peace… Chef Skai Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 2, 2010 Report Share Posted February 2, 2010 I feel this situation (and the world in general) is getting a bit out of hand. There were several people that have been critical of a few raw-like places in the area, some used some fancy words that flew by most of the people reading but were critical nonetheless. It seems David's blunt and blatantly written review of a place that we all hold dear (because it brought a lot of us together and because we have a special place in our heart for the former owner), was offensive to some although not his intention. In defense of David, I appreciate your personal opinion and in defense of anyone who is offended, I can understand (since I tend to be blunt and honest, have been edited on the web a few times, including on this site and have accidentally offended some with my candor). I love Skai to death and there is a special place in my heart for the Yabba Pot which I miss dearly. And in my life I have to say I am torn between being completely blunt and honest and walking softly to make sure people do not misinterpret what I am saying. I don't always do well either way since I myself prefer complete brutal honesty as long as it comes with constructive criticism and not simply a thumbs up or down with no reasons or explanation which leaves people offended, confused or torn. So instead of this conversation splitting people down the middle, I propose that this be a learning experience. I also hope that we as a group come up with a solution. How do we honestly evaluate the places we visit in a non-confrontational and productive manner? How can we review these places without just pumping up the places we are loyal to and giving thumbs down to the places where we have no loyalty to the owner? I personally want honest reviews and I can say if I was a restaurant owner, constructive criticism with examples (and not just general bashing) would be appreciated and help me to improve my business. So I have an idea (and I appreciate honesty as far as whether or not it is a good idea or should it be augmented). I propose that we as a group come up with a RESTAURANT EVALUATION FORM or standard set of questions that allows each of us to rank establishments based on OBJECTIVE CRITERIA so that we know where to go and not. These evaluations do not need to compare one place to another but can simply evaluate them on their individual merits. Kat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 2, 2010 Report Share Posted February 2, 2010 My previous posting about this situation was long so this is the short version of what I propose. I propose that we as a group come up with a RESTAURANT EVALUATION FORM or standard set of questions that allows each of us to rank establishments based on OBJECTIVE CRITERIA so that we know where to go and not based on our own personal preferences. These evaluations do not need to compare one place to another but can simply evaluate them on their individual merits. If we do this as a group, this situation can become a learning experience so that we can continue to be honest yet still be constructive. I personally want honest evaluations of where to go and not to go but I also want it based on specific criteria. When I go on review sites such as Yelp, people tell you why they like and dislike a place and how many stars so I can make up my own mind. For example, I might not care about a place's decor but might prefer excellent service or good food where other people might want it the other way around. I respect the fact that everyone has different criteria for evaluating so I think the questions will help. Any suggestions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 2, 2010 Report Share Posted February 2, 2010 Very well said...JKkatrina wilson <katdivine87 Sent: Tue, February 2, 2010 12:37:50 PM Re: With all due respect for Skai? My previous posting about this situation was long so this is the short version of what I propose. I propose that we as a group come up with a RESTAURANT EVALUATION FORM or standard set of questions that allows each of us to rank establishments based on OBJECTIVE CRITERIA so that we know where to go and not based on our own personal preferences. These evaluations do not need to compare one place to another but can simply evaluate them on their individual merits. If we do this as a group, this situation can become a learning experience so that we can continue to be honest yet still be constructive. I personally want honest evaluations of where to go and not to go but I also want it based on specific criteria. When I go on review sites such as Yelp, people tell you why they like and dislike a place and how many stars so I can make up my own mind. For example, I might not care about a place's decor but might prefer excellent service or good food where other people might want it the other way around. I respect the fact that everyone has different criteria for evaluating so I think the questions will help. Any suggestions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 2, 2010 Report Share Posted February 2, 2010 I've found a handy place to either post or read restaurant reviews has been www.happycow.net, which includes all vegan restaurants, which can be found via a search anywhere in the nation, including at least some raw restaurants. I posted a review of Loving Life Cafe there a few years ago, but nothing since then. Too bad the best things in life are here today, then gone tomorrow. Namaste, David "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." --Benjamin Franklin "Patriotism means to stand by the country. It does not mean to stand by the president or any other public official save exactly to the degree in which he himself stands by the country. It is patriotic to support him insofar as he efficiently serves the country. It is unpatriotic not to oppose him to the exact extent that by inefficiency or otherwise he fails in his duty to stand by the country." --Pres. Theodore Roosevelt, 1908 katrina wilson <katdivine87 Tue, Feb 2, 2010 12:37 pm Re: With all due respect for Skai? My previous posting about this situation was long so this is the short version of what I propose. I propose that we as a group come up with a RESTAURANT EVALUATION FORM or standard set of questions that allows each of us to rank establishments based on OBJECTIVE CRITERIA so that we know where to go and not based on our own personal preferences. These evaluations do not need to compare one place to another but can simply evaluate them on their individual merits. If we do this as a group, this situation can become a learning experience so that we can continue to be honest yet still be constructive. I personally want honest evaluations of where to go and not to go but I also want it based on specific criteria. When I go on review sites such as Yelp, people tell you why they like and dislike a place and how many stars so I can make up my own mind. For example, I might not care about a place's decor but might prefer excellent service or good food where other people might want it the other way around. I respect the fact that everyone has different criteria for evaluating so I think the questions will help. Any suggestions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 3, 2010 Report Share Posted February 3, 2010 As we can see from the numerous closings (and relatively short lifespan) of raw restaurants throughout the country, sustaining a business on purely organic and raw food can be quite challenging. Hence the reason I try to support these restaurants whenever I can. I have gone to over 5 different raw food restaurants in the past few months in different states and what this conversation has reminded me is how important it is to spread the word about these establishments (and my experiences) so they can improve and also get more support. , David L Fishman <DapperD72 wrote: > > > I've found a handy place to either post or read restaurant reviews has been www.happycow.net, which includes all vegan restaurants, which can be found via a search anywhere in the nation, including at least some raw restaurants. I posted a review of Loving Life Cafe there a few years ago, but nothing since then. Too bad the best things in life are here today, then gone tomorrow. > > Namaste, > David > > > " Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. " > --Benjamin Franklin > > " Patriotism means to stand by the country. It does not mean to stand by the president or any other public official save exactly to the degree in which he himself stands by the country. It is patriotic to support him insofar as he efficiently serves the country. It is unpatriotic not to oppose him to the exact extent that by inefficiency or otherwise he fails in his duty to stand by the country. " > --Pres. Theodore Roosevelt, 1908 > > > > > > katrina wilson <katdivine87 > > Tue, Feb 2, 2010 12:37 pm > Re: With all due respect for Skai? My previous posting about this situation was long so this is the short version of what I propose. > > I propose that we as a group come up with a RESTAURANT EVALUATION FORM or standard set of questions that allows each of us to rank establishments based on OBJECTIVE CRITERIA so that we know where to go and not based on our own personal preferences. These evaluations do not need to compare one place to another but can simply evaluate them on their individual merits. If we do this as a group, this situation can become a learning experience so that we can continue to be honest yet still be constructive. I personally want honest evaluations of where to go and not to go but I also want it based on specific criteria. When I go on review sites such as Yelp, people tell you why they like and dislike a place and how many stars so I can make up my own mind. For example, I might not care about a place's decor but might prefer excellent service or good food where other people might want it the other way around. > > I respect the fact that everyone has different criteria for evaluating so I think the questions will help. > Any suggestions? > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 3, 2010 Report Share Posted February 3, 2010 While I certainly agree that a would-be restauranteur takes a calculated risk by adhering to the principles of serving primarily raw vegan dishes made from the freshest organically grown ingredients available, I've also observed that it's not universally true that these noble principles frequently result in such restaurants closing. NYC has had a growing number of raw (mainly vegan) restaurants opening & thriving for the past several years. Quintessence was the original raw, mostly vegan eatery in Manhattan & has remained open & popular for well over a decade. I was disappointed to learn that they closed 2 of their 3 locations, so they now only have a branch in the Upper East Side if I correctly recall. Pure Food & Wine seems to have been going strong for several years, even if it's haute cuisine that's only patronized by wealthy celebrities & people willing to splurge (if they have money to burn). Bonobo's is a much more affordable raw, vegan option where they use almost entirely organic ingredients in a fast-food format, similar to Delights of the Garden in DC (though the former exclusively relies on organic produce except for durians & young Thai coconuts). Los Angeles, CA, has had many more raw (mostly vegan) restaurants for many years, the most prominent of which is Juliano's RAW, which is popular among Hollywood celebrities & has apparently been thriving for many years. Las Vegas, NV, also has a haute cuisine raw vegan restaurant run by the owners the Raw Makery, which has been popular for a number of years. That restaurant alone is the only reason I'd consider visiting Las Vegas, unless I find an adventurous crew to go on Indy Jones types of outings in that vicinity. Baltimore on the other hand is a completely different story. Other than the Bible Belt, Western ranching states (Wyoming, Nebraska, Dakotas), Baltimore, MD, is about as carnivorous a region as you will ever find. There seems to be little if any appetite among the general populace for anything remotely healthful or life-affirming around these environs. Much like the health care debate & self-described "Teabaggers," the national appetite in certain regions more than others (to paraphrase George Carlin) reflects the "strange culture" in which we live. Unfortunately, IMHO our culture, particularly exemplified in how we treat nonhuman animals, reflects our self-destructive nature as a species, hence the "Standard American Diet" and the lack of positive eateries in this specific region appealing to raw, vegan desires. The mainstream media do an excellent job of reinforcing the status quo, so we can't "brainwash" (as the MSM always do to reinforce their profit margins) the masses into changing their diets toward something that would improve their physical & psychological health, not to mention reducing the national debt & health care costs overall. All of this pervasive hypocrisy has forced me to become hyper-cynical in order to face reality. As George Carlin always said, Americans have a lot of trouble dealing with reality. Such is the nature of American culture. Namaste, David "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." --Benjamin Franklin "Patriotism means to stand by the country. It does not mean to stand by the president or any other public official save exactly to the degree in which he himself stands by the country. It is patriotic to support him insofar as he efficiently serves the country. It is unpatriotic not to oppose him to the exact extent that by inefficiency or otherwise he fails in his duty to stand by the country." --Pres. Theodore Roosevelt, 1908 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 6, 2010 Report Share Posted February 6, 2010 Intriguing post. Not only do the majority of Americans have the self-destructive nature that you describe but they also like instantaneous solutions. So with health insurance comes the confidence that someone will fix you if you are broken. I heard one raw proponent from Africa on a video stating that people who know they don't have medical access have to cherish their lives a lot more. In addition, a lot of people who cherish their health, eat raw foods or buck the status quo in general also beat to a different drum. I have many friends that bring their food with them because they don't know if they will find something raw when they are venturing out or they are financially conservative. In addition, a lot of them find other options to interact such as hiking, potlucks and other activities. So to me it is ironic that the very restaurants that cater to the non-traditional eaters and spenders depend on some of them to have traditional going-out-to-dinner and spending habits to sustain themselves. Baltimore has a lot of great people in it but unfortunately a lot people are not exposed to options other than a fried chicken wing at a young enough age. That is why the raw challenge was a such a great thing because open-minded people are then exposed to something they didn't know they would like. California is swimming in places. I went to Planet Raw when they first opened in San Francisco years ago before his move to LA. The last few weeks, I visited Planet Raw's new location in Northern California. Juliano's food tends to be pricey and very decorative hence the celebrity attraction. The northern California location is small (about 4 or 5 four-seat tables) and the menu is limited for now. It is not in a traditionally raw-friendly area (suburbs about 40 minutes from San Fran) so it will be interesting to see if they can sustain. It is funny to see the midwest having more places than Baltimore. I am in the process of visiting some places in Oklahoma and I will post links below. Matthew Kenney's place 105 degrees in Oklahoma City (with a raw food university) I hear it's pretty popular and Pure Cafe in Tulsa which I had heard about previously. Another area that is brimming with raw spots in Georgia. Some recently have closed (including one of the raw van delivery services) but there are at least 5 I think of in the Atlanta area. Baltimore can be that but it will take the people there to create the culture. http://www.purerawcafe.com/tulsa.htm http://105degrees.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/105_dinner_winter_menu.pdf Kat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 7, 2010 Report Share Posted February 7, 2010 a friend of mine lives near 105 and says it rocks. They make their own " ice cream " which she has brought to many SAD eaters and they've enjoyed it.Restaurants come and go. It's a tough business. I have been collecting names and contact info for restaurants around the country but just don't have the time to convert it all to HTML. If someone would like to help with that, I would then be able to do maintenance. I've traveled all over and never had a problem finding something great to eat or bringing my own. My boyfriend and I just went on a cruise with a major line and brought a bunch of our own food along with a little Tribest blender. We ate very well. I'm planning a trip to Egypt in the coming months and will also bring some food and discover what they have locally. It's really about taking responsibility for one's choices, in my opinion, and choosing to find food that works for you. There have also been times I've been on the road and ravenous....even 7-11 sells bananas and oranges....hugs and greens,Sharon~~Sharon Greenspan~~ Dissolve Your Sugar Habit ~~ Boost Your Immunity ~~ Have More Energy Board Certified Holistic Health Practitioner301-816-0752www.wildsuccess.us --for a healthy lifestylewww.wildsuccess.us/naturalzing --for healthy snacks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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