Guest guest Posted December 31, 2002 Report Share Posted December 31, 2002 Hmm, Just by reading all the interesting recipes that have been posted here, I noticed alot of them contain non-vegan additives. I was wondering if there were other vegans on this list or am I the only one? Oh & I totally agree with the comment about the only garlic measurement being " alot " , garlic is so yummy ( & great for the immune system). happy new year to you all Regards to the fish, LisA ICQ#: 15562604 *** www.gu.uwa.edu.au/clubs/vegies *** " I think---therefore I'm single... " -Lizz Winstead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 1, 2003 Report Share Posted January 1, 2003 Speaking of vegans I have a cute story to tell you. Or at least I thought it was funny. My children and I made a trip into " the big city " yesterday to the WholeFoods store in search of some sparkling cider. While there we were investigating the deli selections. I was looking in the case and my daughter wondered up the case a bit. As she stared she began reading some of the descriptions. She looked down my way and with a confused look on her faced asked Mommy, what is vaygan chocolate mousy? I looked at her and said what? And she repeated herself. I made my way down the case to read the sign to see what she was talking about. There in the case was a description reading Vegan Chocolate Mousse. Anyway me and some other sort of confused shoppers got a good laugh. Hope ya'll have a great new year! Robin in NC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 1, 2003 Report Share Posted January 1, 2003 vegetarian vs. vegan..... it's a choice of lifestyle and which ever it is it's for one's own personal reasons but either way it's a better choice if it's right for you. We all know that either is a better choice than the traditional American diet. Robin in NC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 1, 2003 Report Share Posted January 1, 2003 On Wed, 1 Jan 2003 11:26:03 +0800 (WST), you wrote: >Hmm, > >Just by reading all the interesting recipes that have been posted here, I >noticed alot of them contain non-vegan additives. I was wondering if there >were other vegans on this list or am I the only one? Oh & I totally agree >with the comment about the only garlic measurement being " alot " , garlic is >so yummy ( & great for the immune system). > It is my understanding that this is a *vegetarian* list, not a *vegan* list. Someone please correct me if I am wrong about this... I'm not even a vegetarian, just a fellow-traveler. I do have quite a bit of knowledge of cooking vegetarian foods, having been doing a whole lot of it for at least 30 years. Pat -- Pat Meadows CLICK DAILY TO FEED THE HUNGRY United States: http://www.stopthehunger.com/ International: http://www.thehungersite.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 1, 2003 Report Share Posted January 1, 2003 On Wed, 1 Jan 2003, Pat Meadows wrote: > > It is my understanding that this is a *vegetarian* list, not > a *vegan* list. Someone please correct me if I am wrong > about this... Yes I understand that this is a vegetarian list, but I was curious to see if I was the only vegan on it, given that it seems that most of the people posting were not. As veganism is a lifestyle that is a sub-set of the wider term vegetarianism which is a dietary choice I would have thought vegans would be welcome here as well and was curious about what everyone was and if this space was vegan friendly. Sorry if I have offened you by enquiring about this. > I'm not even a vegetarian, just a fellow-traveler. A fellow traveller in what? Regards to the fish, LisA ICQ#: 15562604 *** www.gu.uwa.edu.au/clubs/vegies *** " I think---therefore I'm single... " -Lizz Winstead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 1, 2003 Report Share Posted January 1, 2003 On Thu, 2 Jan 2003 00:00:20 +0800 (WST), you wrote: >On Wed, 1 Jan 2003, Pat Meadows wrote: > >> >> It is my understanding that this is a *vegetarian* list, not >> a *vegan* list. Someone please correct me if I am wrong >> about this... > >Yes I understand that this is a vegetarian list, but I was curious to see >if I was the only vegan on it, given that it seems that most of the people >posting were not. As veganism is a lifestyle that is a sub-set of the >wider term vegetarianism which is a dietary choice I would have thought >vegans would be welcome here as well and was curious about what everyone >was and if this space was vegan friendly. Sorry if I have offened you by >enquiring about this. > >> I'm not even a vegetarian, just a fellow-traveler. > >A fellow traveller in what? In vegetarianism. I'm not a vegetarian at the moment and don't feel 'called' to be at present, but have been in the past and may be in the future. The majority of our meals are meatless. Pat -- Pat Meadows CLICK DAILY TO FEED THE HUNGRY United States: http://www.stopthehunger.com/ International: http://www.thehungersite.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 1, 2003 Report Share Posted January 1, 2003 Lisa Green [moonbug] Tuesday, December 31, 2002 7:26 PM vegans... >>...reading all the interesting recipes...I noticed alot of...non-vegan additives...<< Hi, Lisa, Maybe it's just me, but " non-vegan additives " sounds so confrontational, and well, like the rest of us are doing something terribly wrong with our " vegetarian " diet. Butter, and milk, and honey and the other additives you allude to are all products of animals that " do not " require the death of the animal. For me that's the biggest part of what being veggie means. I've been completely veggie (no leather, occasionally vegan, mostly L/O) for over 21 years, so I appologize to no one for what I believe and my related views of animal rights. I found it was tough enough being veggie in a meat eating world, and everytime I added the additional requirements of being vegan, my life was futher complicated without an additional improvement of my ethical experience. For me being vegan was just not worth it! Don't get me wrong here. If being vegan works for you, and in addition to confronting the meat eating world, you also need to confront your veggie allies, then go for it, but frankly, I don't see the point. Your veggie diet is stricter than mine--that's all!! In my local veggie community, I now notice a proponderance of outspoken vegans, and I've got to admit that for the " first time " in over 20 years, I'm feeling like I'm " not veggie enough. " Who knows maybe I'm reacting to those feelings. I hope you're not offended by my frankness. Have a grand New Year, Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 1, 2003 Report Share Posted January 1, 2003 Hi Dave & others, It's clear I've gotten some noses out of joint by my comments, and I'm sorry about this, but I was merely asking if there were other vegans on this list. I don't want to start a whole argument on the virtures of veganism versus the virtures of lacto-ovo vegetarianism, or other levels of vegetarianism. Although if people are interested in discussing/inquiring about veganism I am happy to take part. On Wed, 1 Jan 2003, daveo wrote: > Maybe it's just me, but " non-vegan additives " sounds so confrontational, and > well, like the rest of us are doing something terribly wrong with our > " vegetarian " diet. Well, how would you suggest I word it then? I did notice alot (but not all) recipes did contain cheese/eggs/honey etc these are non vegan products/additives. > Butter, and milk, and honey and the other additives you allude to are > all products of animals that " do not " require the death of the animal. > For me that's the biggest part of what being veggie means. It would be nice if this was the case with modern farming practices, however most intensive agriculture has little respect for animal life & treatment. However I do know that many people chose to by organic products or raise their own animals in a humane fashion. But really the choice of what you consume is up to you. I personally have more issue with people who refuse to find out about that they consume, than those who know what goes into what they eat/ware/use. If you go out & do your own killing & eat meat I have less issue for you than if you don't see a factory farm and just buy your food in nice little plastic containers. I think it is imortant for people to realise where their food comes from & what effect our food ( & other purchasing choices) have on the rest of the planet. > I've been completely veggie (no leather, occasionally vegan, mostly > L/O) for over 21 years, so I appologize to no one for what I believe > and my related views of animal rights. I found it was tough enough > being veggie in a meat eating world, and everytime I added the > additional requirements of being vegan, my life was futher complicated > without an additional improvement of my ethical experience. For me > being vegan was just not worth it! I'm not familiar with the area you live in so it is not my place to judge how difficult it is for you to be vegan. Everyones level of dedication and ability to be dedicated is different. Whilst I (naturally) belive that people should be vegan, any step in reducing animal product consumption is a good thing. > Don't get me wrong here. If being vegan works for you, and in addition to > confronting the meat eating world, you also need to confront your veggie > allies, then go for it, but frankly, I don't see the point. Your veggie > diet is stricter than mine--that's all!! Hmmm that's the difference, for many vegans (myself included) veganism is a *lifestyle* not just a dietary choice becuase vegans by definition do not consume animal products which is something that extends to all facets of ones life, whilst by definition vegetarianism only relates to what one eats (or rather doesn't eat). Of course there are many vegetarians who don't use leather or buy products that are tested on animals, but it's not a defining feature of the term and there are many vegetarians that do use such products. > In my local veggie community, I now notice a proponderance of outspoken > vegans, and I've got to admit that for the " first time " in over 20 years, > I'm feeling like I'm " not veggie enough. " Who knows maybe I'm reacting to > those feelings. I hope you're not offended by my frankness. No thank you for your frankness, I'd rather you spoke up than mummbled quitely about " all those nasty vegans around " We all naturally feel a bit defensive when people try to challenge the way we act, think or feel about an issue. In 20 odd years alot of new products have come onto the market to make things easier for vegetarians (in the past 5 years alone I've noticed major diffences). Things have also changed in the animal rights movement and in the animal agriculture industries. Maybe these things are also contributing to you feeling uncomfortable? > Have a grand New Year, you too Regards to the fish, LisA ICQ#: 15562604 *** www.gu.uwa.edu.au/clubs/vegies *** " I think---therefore I'm single... " -Lizz Winstead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 1, 2003 Report Share Posted January 1, 2003 Is it confrontational or just lack of a different/better term? I do share some of your feelings though, like vegan would be the " ideal " to strive for. I'm also not vegan though my daughter and I would like to try, but neither of us think we can live without cheese. We have stopped eating eggs and most other dairy products and this seems to work. We still have plenty of enjoyable food options and feel ethically good about our choices. We may make different choices for health, ethics, or whatever, but at least we are thinking. THAT is what is important, IMO, not the particular choices we make. I appreciate someone who makes a totally different choice more than someone who just doesn't care. Kris --- daveo <daveo wrote: > > Lisa Green [moonbug] > Tuesday, December 31, 2002 7:26 PM > > vegans... > > >>...reading all the interesting recipes...I noticed alot of...non-vegan > additives...<< > > Hi, Lisa, > > Maybe it's just me, but " non-vegan additives " sounds so confrontational, and > well, like the rest of us are doing something terribly wrong with our > " vegetarian " diet. Butter, and milk, and honey and the other additives you > allude to are all products of animals that " do not " require the death of the > animal. For me that's the biggest part of what being veggie means. > > I've been completely veggie (no leather, occasionally vegan, mostly L/O) for > over 21 years, so I appologize to no one for what I believe and my related > views of animal rights. I found it was tough enough being veggie in a meat > eating world, and everytime I added the additional requirements of being > vegan, my life was futher complicated without an additional improvement of > my ethical experience. For me being vegan was just not worth it! > > Don't get me wrong here. If being vegan works for you, and in addition to > confronting the meat eating world, you also need to confront your veggie > allies, then go for it, but frankly, I don't see the point. Your veggie > diet is stricter than mine--that's all!! > > In my local veggie community, I now notice a proponderance of outspoken > vegans, and I've got to admit that for the " first time " in over 20 years, > I'm feeling like I'm " not veggie enough. " Who knows maybe I'm reacting to > those feelings. I hope you're not offended by my frankness. > > Have a grand New Year, > > Dave > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 1, 2003 Report Share Posted January 1, 2003 On Wed, 1 Jan 2003, daveo wrote: > Maybe it's just me, but " non-vegan additives " sounds so > confrontational, and well, like the rest of us are doing something > terribly wrong with our " vegetarian " diet. Lisa responded... >>Well, how would you suggest I word it then? I did notice alot (but not all) recipes did contain cheese/eggs/honey etc these are non vegan products/additives.<< The last sentence above is fine when you simply stop with the fact that " vegans don't eat these foods. " > Butter, and milk, and honey and the other additives you allude to are > all products of animals that " do not " require the death of the animal. > For me that's the biggest part of what being veggie means. >>It would be nice if this was the case with modern farming practices, however most intensive agriculture has little respect for animal life & treatment.<< I try to avoid generalization that use " most " and the like in place of real facts. If I were the world's policeman, I'd stop the mistreatment of animals, as I'm sure you would. I'm also concerned with the mistreatment of children, and corporate greed, and deceitful politicians, and well, the list goes on and on. Be it right or be it wrong, my life is not driven by the bad behavior of others, instead a portion of my ethics is focused on *not* being a part of the animal slaughter process. >>...If you go out & do your own killing & eat meat I have less issue for you than if you don't see a factory farm and just buy your food in nice little plastic containers. I think it is imortant for people to realise where their food comes from & what effect our food ( & other purchasing choices) have on the rest of the planet.<< Those are a couple of interesting distinctions you make. I don't find them useful for me, but them I don't make choices for your either. > ...Your veggie diet is stricter than mine--that's all!! >>Hmmm that's the difference, for many vegans (myself included) veganism is a *lifestyle* not just a dietary choice...<< I think you're right on here!! And, this is a really big difference. For me, my sense of ethics was well established before I decided to stop eating meat. So, I would conclude that my being veggie is *not* my lifestyle although it is certainly an important aspect of my lifestyle. My dietary choices are but a few of the many choices I make and maintain about my life. And, my life is far more than what I choose to eat. > In my local veggie community, I now notice a preponderance of > outspoken vegans, and I've got to admit that for the " first time " in > over 20 years, I'm feeling like I'm " not veggie enough. " Who knows > maybe I'm reacting to those feelings. I hope you're not offended by my frankness. >>No...I'd rather you spoke up than mummbled quitely about " all those nasty vegans around " << LOL!! How does " a preponderance of outspoken vegans " translate into " all those nasty vegans around? " I'm proud to own my words and the feelings they evoke for me. I do not equate " outspoken " to " nasty. " Why do you? Let me be clear. I do not challenge veganism. I simply do not practice it. I do not discount those who practice it, and I do not expect to be discounted by its practitioners. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 1, 2003 Report Share Posted January 1, 2003 Bravo, well said, Lisa. I didn't take your inquiry or comments as confrontational at all. All of us are on our own path; doing what feels right to us and what is healthful for our bodies. Differences are just simply that, and I think wonderful, for we can learn something from eachother. Nobody is telling others they are wrong or " less-vegetarian " than themselves. If that is their motivation, then they have bigger problems than diet concerns. I snipped this from our group's description, and I think it says it all: " ...a place to let down your hair and discuss being a vegetarian. This list is friendly to all forms of vegetarianism, so let us treat eachother with the same measure of kindness we aspire to show to our animal friends. " ~ P_T ~ Liberty is given by nature even to mute animals. -Publius Cornelius Tacitus, historian (55-117) ~~~~~*~~~~~*~~~~~*~~~~~*~~~~~*~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~> , Lisa Green <moonbug@u...> wrote: > Hi Dave & others, > > It's clear I've gotten some noses out of joint by my comments, and I'm > sorry about this, but I was merely asking if there were other vegans on > this list. I don't want to start a whole argument on the virtures of > veganism versus the virtures of lacto-ovo vegetarianism, or other levels > of vegetarianism. Although if people are interested in > discussing/inquiring about veganism I am happy to take part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 2, 2003 Report Share Posted January 2, 2003 I just became Vegan yesterday (dietary vegan only, no fullfledged; i love my leather jacket too much *grin*). I bought a couple of really good books I hope to start posting some recipes soon as I try them. :-) Megan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 2, 2003 Report Share Posted January 2, 2003 On Wed, 1 Jan 2003, daveo wrote: > The last sentence above is fine when you simply stop with the fact that > " vegans don't eat these foods. " how is saying vegans don't eat these foods " any different from saying they are " non-vegan products " ? Why are you offended by the comment? > >>It would be nice if this was the case with modern farming practices, > however most intensive agriculture has little respect for animal life & > treatment.<< > > I try to avoid generalization that use " most " and the like in place of real > facts. if you would like I would be happy to post you details of modern intesive farming practises, which in modern nations such as the USA and Australia dominate agriculture. I have not yet as I did not think that this forum would be a suitable place becuase many vegetarians and vegetarian friendly people already know many issues that are related to intensive agriculture. From what I've gathered by comments about free-range eggs most people appear to be informed about issues such as battery cages and the like. It seems silly to preach to the converted. > Be it right or be it wrong, my life is not driven by the bad behavior > of others, instead a portion of my ethics is focused on *not* being a > part of the animal slaughter process. But by not partaking in direct animal slaughter you are boycotting industries who profit from the slaughter of animals. Therefore the bad behaviour of others (ie profiting from animal slaughter) is affecting the way you conduct yourself. If noone took part in animal slaughter then the negative behaviour of others wouldn't be influencing you becuase it doesn't exisit. > I think you're right on here!! And, this is a really big difference. I'm glad we agree > For me, my sense of ethics was well established before I decided to stop > eating meat. So, I would conclude that my being veggie is *not* my > lifestyle although it is certainly an important aspect of my lifestyle. My > dietary choices are but a few of the many choices I make and maintain about > my life. And, my life is far more than what I choose to eat. But I'm also sure that you are like most people & your sense of ethics grows and changes, so now your vegetarianism may well be part of your ethics. But of course you might not chose to do that yet. > >>No...I'd rather you spoke up than mummbled quitely about " all those nasty > vegans around " << > > LOL!! How does " a preponderance of outspoken vegans " translate into " all > those nasty vegans around? " *sigh* I was joking, if you note the emoticon at the end of my comment. > I'm proud to own my words and the feelings they evoke for me. I do not > equate " outspoken " to " nasty. " Why do you? Let me be clear. I do not > challenge veganism. I simply do not practice it. I do not discount those > who practice it, and I do not expect to be discounted by its practitioners. then why are you so sensitive to my wording of " non-vegan products " ? Why did you seem offended by me merely asking if there were other vegans on this list? Why do you have issues with being challenged by vegans in your local community? If you are comfortable with your dietary choices you would not feel that you " aren't veggie enough " and you would not have issues with non-threatening enquires about veganism on the list. Regards to the fish, LisA ICQ#: 15562604 *** www.gu.uwa.edu.au/clubs/vegies *** " I think---therefore I'm single... " -Lizz Winstead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 2, 2003 Report Share Posted January 2, 2003 On Thu, 2 Jan 2003, Megan Milligan wrote: > I just became Vegan yesterday (dietary vegan only, no fullfledged; i > love my leather jacket too much *grin*). I bought a couple of really > good books I hope to start posting some recipes soon as I try them. > :-) Congratulations Megan, if you have any inquiries I'm more than willing to help answer them as best I can. And thanks to all who have been supportive (vegan, vegetarian & otherwise) about me asking if there were more vegans on the list, it's certianly sparked interesting debate. Regards to the fish, LisA ICQ#: 15562604 *** www.gu.uwa.edu.au/clubs/vegies *** " I think---therefore I'm single... " -Lizz Winstead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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