Guest guest Posted January 20, 2003 Report Share Posted January 20, 2003 *****Keith wrote---- >>hmm.. cancer is quite natural too.<< Well, actually it's not! Cancer can be tracked to the malformation of a few types of cells and a couple of specific situations. Some literature suggests that it's occurrence results from a number of factors, none of which in my opinion are in fact natural. Other literature suggests that certain nutritional factors considerably change (some lower and some raise) the risk of contracting cancer. >>...arent those fat deposits that ketosis uses where a lot of nasty byproducts from unhealthy living stay?<< Well, let's see. Generally, the byproduct of smoking stays in the mouth, nose, throat, and lungs and does their damage from there. The byproduct of drinking excessive alcohol is processed by the liver and affects the quality of your life as the liver is progressively destroyed. The byproduct of unnatural chemicals and all the other nasty stuff in our food is processed as much as possible by our bodies. What the body can't eliminate is stored in whatever medium best can contain that " nasty byproduct, " but " fat tissue " is not the only depository for that crud. It seems to me that the real question is " what to do with all the nasty stuff " that remains in your body. Foods high in antioxidants is one way to aid their elimination over time, but a poor " good diet " is as bad as a " poor diet " with a few super antioxidants thrown in. >>...ive been fed the 'ketosis is very natural' line before...<< As another member of this group says, there's disagreement as to what the medical literature really means, and that's where you get to use your God-given right to make the final decision on your own. Listen to both sides and then decide for yourself. The best way to do that is through a respectful dialogue, which I hope we're having. >>...pretty much any bodily function is natural, right down to your appendix exploding...<< Sounds pretty unnatural to me. I'll bet that when all the facts are on the table, a more reasonable explanation can be identified. The body is a pretty remarkable container. It's worked very well for centuries, learning more about it has improved my overall quality of life. >>...ketosis...is...kinda like... knowing we are always in the midst of geographical weather changes...<< I don't think I would argue with your representation. It's an ongoing bodily function that its critics place way too much emphasis on discounting for all the wrong reasons. >>...actually being in the middle of an ice age...<< This image really pushes your analogy. It's hardly like that. Keep in mind that if two veggie Oreo cookie tastes really good, then 20 ought to be absolutely splendid! If that kind of thinking rules you, then many of the things you do will have added hazards attached to them. >>...ketosis of that consistency is not healthy...<< You'll get no argument from me on this point. I'm told that a 60% decline in your normal calorie intake will put you into just such a state. I do not recommend that level of ketosis and neither does the Atkins program. The purpose of any diet is to " lose weight, " not to commit suicide. >>...it simple math.. if you are always drawing on fatty reserves, and not replenshing them, you aren't doing yourself a favour...<< There's a lot of debate on the web about this very topic--i.e., the " healthy level of body fat " we ought to have and maintain. The standard weight charts have a lot of wiggle room in them to accommodate just about everybody who is not borderline obese. No one believes that all of your energy ought to come from fat reserves, but in a healthy person there is a balanced drawing of energy from both stored rereserves and active reserves. Here's the rub, eat too much, and it all comes from the active reserve, plus the stored reserves are expanded with the excess calories. >>...when you stop that diet, and go back to sucking greaseburgers...<< Without self-discipline this is what you get on any diet!! >>...ive been on this great diet for 34 years, it really works...<< Great!! Do you mind sharing it with the group? Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 20, 2003 Report Share Posted January 20, 2003 i said i would drop the subject, unless there's a resurgence, i'll honour that.. i just wanted to add that i do agree with some of the things you are saying, and i think some of the things i said aren't being processed in a way i meant them.. damn my sarcasm... at any rate, thats my failure; i accuse myself of being too verbose (i blame an actual love of writing) and try to cut myself short as much as i can... i guess some things get lost in that:D (but if you are on a diet for 34 years, i think you have problems outside your weight... although we may be thinking of different definitions of the term diet in this instance) cheers, -k- --- daveo <daveo wrote: > *****Keith wrote---- > >>hmm.. cancer is quite natural too.<< > > Well, actually it's not! Cancer can be tracked to > the malformation of a few > types of cells and a couple of specific situations. > Some literature > suggests that it's occurrence results from a number > of factors, none of > which in my opinion are in fact natural. Other > literature suggests that > certain nutritional factors considerably change > (some lower and some raise) > the risk of contracting cancer. > > > >>...arent those fat deposits that > ketosis uses where a lot of nasty > byproducts from unhealthy living stay?<< > > Well, let's see. Generally, the byproduct of > smoking stays in the mouth, > nose, throat, and lungs and does their damage from > there. The byproduct of > drinking excessive alcohol is processed by the liver > and affects the quality > of your life as the liver is progressively > destroyed. > > The byproduct of unnatural chemicals and all the > other nasty stuff in our > food is processed as much as possible by our bodies. > What the body can't > eliminate is stored in whatever medium best can > contain that " nasty > byproduct, " but " fat tissue " is not the only > depository for that crud. > > It seems to me that the real question is " what to do > with all the nasty > stuff " that remains in your body. Foods high in > antioxidants is one way to > aid their elimination over time, but a poor " good > diet " is as bad as a " poor > diet " with a few super antioxidants thrown in. > > > >>...ive been fed the 'ketosis is very > natural' line before...<< > > As another member of this group says, there's > disagreement as to what the > medical literature really means, and that's where > you get to use your > God-given right to make the final decision on your > own. Listen to both > sides and then decide for yourself. The best way to > do that is through a > respectful dialogue, which I hope we're having. > > > >>...pretty much any bodily function > is natural, right down to your appendix > exploding...<< > > Sounds pretty unnatural to me. I'll bet that when > all the facts are on the > table, a more reasonable explanation can be > identified. The body is a > pretty remarkable container. It's worked very well > for centuries, learning > more about it has improved my overall quality of > life. > > > >>...ketosis...is...kinda like... > knowing we are always in the midst > of geographical weather changes...<< > > I don't think I would argue with your > representation. It's an ongoing > bodily function that its critics place way too much > emphasis on discounting > for all the wrong reasons. > > > >>...actually being in the middle > of an ice age...<< > > This image really pushes your analogy. It's hardly > like that. > > Keep in mind that if two veggie Oreo cookie tastes > really good, then 20 > ought to be absolutely splendid! If that kind of > thinking rules you, then > many of the things you do will have added hazards > attached to them. > > > >>...ketosis of that consistency > is not healthy...<< > > You'll get no argument from me on this point. I'm > told that a 60% decline > in your normal calorie intake will put you into just > such a state. I do not > recommend that level of ketosis and neither does the > Atkins program. The > purpose of any diet is to " lose weight, " not to > commit suicide. > > > >>...it simple math.. if you are > always drawing on fatty reserves, > and not replenshing them, you aren't > doing yourself a favour...<< > > There's a lot of debate on the web about this very > topic--i.e., the " healthy > level of body fat " we ought to have and maintain. > The standard weight > charts have a lot of wiggle room in them to > accommodate just about everybody > who is not borderline obese. > > No one believes that all of your energy ought to > come from fat reserves, but > in a healthy person there is a balanced drawing of > energy from both stored > rereserves and active reserves. > > Here's the rub, eat too much, and it all comes from > the active reserve, plus > the stored reserves are expanded with the excess > calories. > > > >>...when you stop that diet, and > go back to sucking greaseburgers...<< > > Without self-discipline this is what you get on any > diet!! > > > >>...ive been on this great diet for > 34 years, it really works...<< > > Great!! Do you mind sharing it with the group? > > Dave > > > > Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 20, 2003 Report Share Posted January 20, 2003 *****Keith wrote---- >>...i think some of the things i said aren't being processed in a way i meant them.. damn my sarcasm... at any rate, thats my failure; i accuse myself of being too verbose (i blame an actual love of writing)...<< I've noticed that " sense of humor " and " attempts at sarcasm " don't always translate well on the Internet or among all English speakng people. The largest collection of emoticons I've ever seen is here http://www.cknow.com/ckinfo/emoticons.htm Maybe they will help. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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