Twisting the subject

[Guest guest]

Well the subject won't die, but perhaps I can change it's direction if I

may? A question I have about the high-protein diet thing and vegetarians:

why be veg if you are high-protein? I ask this question based upon the

following assumption, so correct my assumptions if you need to.

 

I can understand carnivores going for the high-protein thing and the logic

behind it because it supports the habits they already have: eat more meat,

it's OK to skip the grains and veggies, fat is good. I wonder if most of

the popularity of such diets is that people love to be told good things

about their bad habits. We all know from personal experience that most

people confused/abhorred by veg diets think it's crazy not to eat meat.

Most also think that cutting out meat products must take a Herculean amount

of self-discipline and will, therefore in their minds eating the burger

patty and skipping the bun is a perfectly reasonable and easy way to diet.

That being said, I don't understand why a veg would do the high-protein

thing, as such diets were designed by people who seem to think humans are

supposed to eat meat.

 

Part of my reasons for being veg is my belief that it is the most natural

diet for human beings to eat. We do not have fangs, we do not have claws,

we cannot digest bones. As we know from experience, we don't die if we

don't eat meat--nobody ever dropped dead 10 feet in front of a Burger King

because they didn't make it on time. I believe we acquired our omnivorous

tendencies out of sheer necessity (the need for survival) only. I think the

optimum diet that (name your personal higher power here) intended for us is

one based on plants. A diet based on plants contains adequate protein,

which is not nearly enough according to the high-protein gurus. Also a diet

based on plants naturally contains an abundance of high-quality, unrefined,

complex-carbohydrates. So how could humans who for the majority of our

evolution ate complex-carbs as the majority of their diets, and high-protein

meat as the minority, develop physical problems digesting that which they

evolved on? (difficult sentence to read I know--sorry) Wouldn't we adapt to

eat that what we were best suited to eat and of what there was an abundance

of?

 

Also, if the low-fat high carb thing is wrong, then why aren't people who

eat traditional Asian diets all 300 lbs. porkers? Why isn't there a high

incidence of heart disease and obesity and diabetes in such cultures?

People who eat traditional Asian diets are among the healthiest people on

the planet. They eat mostly veg and generally eat very little meat. When

they adopt the SAD (standard American diet) diet then they get heavy and

experience our Western health problems.

 

I have no problems with calorie restriction--restrict calories all you want.

I don't think anyone here has a problem with it either. But you can

restrict calories a multitude of different ways. You can eat a ton of

veggies and consume very few calories.

 

But I digress, my real question is: if high-protein, why veg?

[Guest guest]

*****Maija wrote.....

>>...why be veg if you are high-protein?<<

 

Our bodies need three macronutrients--fat, protein, and carbs. So, eating

some combination of them is a given, if you plan to live past next Saturday.

The big debate for as long as I've been veggie is " how much of each " is

actually necessary?

 

I'm not a physician and I don't claim to have an answer, but a number of

physicians do claim portions of the answer. We've all seen their names many

times on our list.

 

I'm on the downhill side of my 50s. I've been veggie a long time and I'm

very healthy for my age. I've evaluated many variations of the diets we've

discussed over the years.

 

Last year, I tried " The Soy Zone. " I'm not trying to sell anyone on trying

it. I'm only reporting the reasons and results I've had with adding a

" higher level " of protein and adjusting my diet in several other ways.

 

After 50, I began having aches and pains that I had never felt with only

limited exertion. My overall endurance and energy level was diminishing.

My weight had crept to over 200 lbs (I'm 5'-9 " tall). Along with the excess

fat I carried, I noticed that muscle mass had diminished to the point I

could easily notice it. Hey, I know it's all a part of getting older!

 

Using hindsight, I estimate my usual protein intake was 30-40 grams per day

for most of my life. Since I was never a big meat eater, the transition to

being veggie didn't affect me as much. However, when I adjusted the

proportions of my diet to what the zone recomments (fat 17%, protein 33%,

and carbs 50%), everything changed.

 

I lost weigh almost immediately. In the past year, I'm down 39 lbs, just

short of the weight I had when I left the Marines 35 years ago. My energy

level, my endurance, and my overall sense of well-being is at a level where

I have no complaints.

 

Here's why I believe this diet worked for me. Getting back to the three

macronutrients, fats are needed to maintain and balance our body's hormones,

protein is the only nutrient that can be used to maintain and rebuild our

body, and carbs are our only energy source. For me, the zone numbers (17,

33, and 50) work.

 

Is this diet high-protein? I argue not, but that's just my opinion. My

daily intake of protein is double what it's been for most of my life. At my

age, I'm the healthest of all my friends over fifty, and I'm as physically

active or more so than their children. What do I offer as the reason?

 

It's simple!! More protein in my diet--every claim made in " the soy zone "

book that applied directly to me has been met or exceeded.

 

Dave

[Guest guest]

*****Maija wrote.....

>>...A diet based on plants contains adequate protein...<<

 

I agree, but how do you determine what " adequate protein " means?

 

 

>>...a diet based on plants naturally contains an abundance of high-quality,

unrefined, complex-carbohydrates...<<

 

Again I agree! When do you know that you've got enough for maintaining your

health?

 

 

>>...how could humans who for the majority of our evolution ate

complex-carbs...and high-protein meat...develop physical problems digesting

that which they evolved on?<<

 

What specific digestion problem are you referring to?

 

 

>>...traditional Asian diets are among the healthiest people on the

planet...<<

 

You are right on target again, but to be more specific, Okinawa is the

nation with the largest percent of elderly reaching or exceeding age 100,

and their numbers (percentage wise) are five times greater than in Japan.

The Okinawians also consume twice the per capita soy of the Japanese.

Research shows their diet is characterized by several interesting factors.

 

They consume on average 20-40% fewer calories than the Japanese and their

protein consumption is around 100 grams per day, half of which comes from

fish. So, their diet is rich in omega-3 fatty acids, higher in protein than

the Japanese, and they consume fewer calories. I find it interesting that

much discussion on our list slams one or more of these life extending

practices.

 

BTW, I have found a vegan substitute for omega-3 which also comes from the

sea.

 

Dave

[Guest guest]

> my real question is: if high-protein, why veg?

>

 

It wasn't a subject I was willing to go on about in the first place, but

in this case of the twisted subject (is that me, I wonder ;=) ?) I can

only comment that some people feel that they feel better on more protein

- for whatever reason - and that they can eat their regular vegetarian

diet (I am assuming here that they are vegetarians first, weight-loss

dieters second - a huge assumption, I agree) then they can feel better

on fewer calories *if* they up their intake of protein. Some people feel

protein gives them more energy - and that it's easier to reduce calories

if one has more energy. The weight-loss diets devised by the

protein-happy medics work for other people, that is to say

non-vegetarians, they might reason, so they then try to adapt their own

vegetarian habits to these diets - or vice versa.

 

Whether or not that reasoning is sensible, I dunno. I am not speaking of

myself here - except that I do feel better if I remind myself to eat

high-protein foods at meals, such as beans, lentils, etc. It might be

purely psychological, of course - but hey if it works it works ;=)

 

Whaddaya think?

 

best,

pat

--

PAT (In London, Ontario)

Email List: townhounds-

(townhounds/)

Personal Email: SANTBROWN

Personal Webpage: http://www.angelfire.com/art/pendragon/

----------

* " Until he extends the circle of compassion to all living things, man

will not himself find peace. " - Albert Schweitzer

* " Don't be afraid. Just start the tape. " - Anne Rice

* " I don't do pawprints. " -- Snoopy

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[Guest guest]

*****Pat wrote.....

> my real question is: if high-protein, why veg?

>

>>...Some people feel protein gives them more energy - and that it's easier

to reduce calories if one has more energy...<<

 

I understand how people believe that energy comes from everything that eat,

but it " ...just aint so. "

 

Here's why. The only sources of energy in our body are the carbs we eat or

the glucose freed during ketosis. The energy is produced only after carbs

are converted into glucose, the one and only fuel our bodies knows how to

use.

 

Similarily, the protein we eat is converted into the various amino acids as

the building blocks for maintaining and rebuilding our cells and bones and

the like. The two macronutrients have uniquely different function in our

body.

 

When your body is healthy from eating adequate protein and other stuff, it

recovers easier from physical exertion, and I surmise that such a feeling

might also seem like more energy.

 

Dave

[Guest guest]

> When your body is healthy from eating adequate protein and other stuff, it

> recovers easier from physical exertion, and I surmise that such a feeling

> might also seem like more energy.

>

 

Well, okay, that sounds reasonable ;=) Less tired is what one feels, and

that fits in with what you say of course. So maybe that's why this 'high

proetein' hangup for weight-loss dieters?

 

best,

pat

---

PAT (In London, Ontario)

Email List: townhounds-

(townhounds/)

Personal Email: SANTBROWN

Personal Webpage: http://www.angelfire.com/art/pendragon/

----------

* " Until he extends the circle of compassion to all living things, man

will not himself find peace. " - Albert Schweitzer

* " Don't be afraid. Just start the tape. " - Anne Rice

* " I don't do pawprints. " -- Snoopy

----------