Guest guest Posted January 28, 2003 Report Share Posted January 28, 2003 If i may call you that I also went vegan quite quickly after becoming vegetarian, but i don't think i'd make a good raw foodist. I like warm food " especially outdoor activities. My favorite book is The Mists of Avalon by Marion Zimmer Bradley " I like doing outdoor things too, but rarely get the chance atm, the weather is one day spring, next day antarctic. Yes i am from the uk . I also love the avalon series. Also the Ayla books from Jean Auel. Have you ever read them ? I am always looking for more good things to read aside Uni stuff. Hope you will enjoy it here Dee With Mail you can get a bigger mailbox -- choose a size that fits your needs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2003 Report Share Posted January 28, 2003 Thanks Dorothea! Yeah, some vegans I've ran into think you're not as vegan as they are if you eat sugar, or they think there's something wrong with you if you're not a health nut. Heck, life is too short to spend your life eating grass and bean sprouts! You can still eat vegan junk food and not contribute to animal suffering. I've been a biggin' since I was 13 and don't like stressing myself out by dieting. Allthough after I went vegan, I did lose 70 lbs and a vegan diet HAS to be at least 400% healthier than a " regular " diet, which is cool, because health is important, but I'm not going to get my panties in a bunch if something has sugar in it, ya know? I've got vegan substitutes for just about anything. Those " ribs " by Gardenburger are good. I wish I could find the Tofutti cheese somewhere. I don't know of any other edible vegan cheese. Vegan 'Rella tasted like playdough and Vegan Slices, don't even get started on that, gag-ola! Liz Dorothea Deppe <fortuna_the_cat wrote: If i may call you that I also went vegan quite quickly after becoming vegetarian, but i don't think i'd make a good raw foodist. I like warm food " especially outdoor activities. My favorite book is The Mists of Avalon by Marion Zimmer Bradley " I like doing outdoor things too, but rarely get the chance atm, the weather is one day spring, next day antarctic. Yes i am from the uk . I also love the avalon series. Also the Ayla books from Jean Auel. Have you ever read them ? I am always looking for more good things to read aside Uni stuff. Hope you will enjoy it here Dee With Mail you can get a bigger mailbox -- choose a size that fits your needs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 29, 2003 Report Share Posted January 29, 2003 On Tue, 28 Jan 2003, Lizard wrote: > > Thanks Dorothea! Yeah, some vegans I've ran into think you're not as > vegan as they are if you eat sugar, or they think there's something > wrong with you if you're not a health nut. Actually that probably becuase in some parts of the world sugar is refined using animal bone char making refined sugar not even vegetarian much less vegan rather than because they are health nuts. Regards to the fish, LisA ICQ#: 15562604 *** www.gu.uwa.edu.au/clubs/vegies *** " I think---therefore I'm single... " -Lizz Winstead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 29, 2003 Report Share Posted January 29, 2003 I can understand not buying the sugar itself unless you're sure it's not refined, but avoiding it for that reason alone in food products? I mean, you could also apply that logic to raw foods by saying that mice and another animals are killed with farming equipment, and therefore you'll have to starve to death. You have to draw the line somewhere. Lisa Green <moonbug wrote:On Tue, 28 Jan 2003, Lizard wrote: > > Thanks Dorothea! Yeah, some vegans I've ran into think you're not as > vegan as they are if you eat sugar, or they think there's something > wrong with you if you're not a health nut. Actually that probably becuase in some parts of the world sugar is refined using animal bone char making refined sugar not even vegetarian much less vegan rather than because they are health nuts. Regards to the fish, LisA ICQ#: 15562604 *** www.gu.uwa.edu.au/clubs/vegies *** " I think---therefore I'm single... " -Lizz Winstead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 29, 2003 Report Share Posted January 29, 2003 On Wed, 29 Jan 2003, Lizard wrote: > > I can understand not buying the sugar itself unless you're sure it's > not refined, but avoiding it for that reason alone in food products? > I mean, you could also apply that logic to raw foods by saying that > mice and another animals are killed with farming equipment, and > therefore you'll have to starve to death. You have to draw the line > somewhere. Would you eat something that may have contained meat products (eg something that has a emulsifier that is either veg or animal made but it doesn't say which)? Would you eat something that *may* contain human corpse? Avoiding unrefined sugar is different to " starving to death " (also bone char is used in about a 25% of sugar refining in the US and there are a couple of brands of sugar that specify they don't use this refining process). I also know people who avoid grains on the basis that grains are harvested using equipment that kills alot of animals as well as it generally being harder on the earth than other forms of agriculture. I also know people who won't eat anything unless they have prepared it. I even know a couple of fruitarians. Yes you have to draw a line somewhere- but don't make fun or chide those who are more dedicated than you. After all there's probably been a meat eater who's told you at you were being pedantic or rediculous at some point. Regards to the fish, LisA ICQ#: 15562604 *** www.gu.uwa.edu.au/clubs/vegies *** " I think---therefore I'm single... " -Lizz Winstead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2003 Report Share Posted January 30, 2003 Where to draw the line is where I am at, over and over again. I've been a vegetarian for quite a long time, as the world turns, but up until recently was happily ovo-lacto, although I am not fond of the taste of eggs. I still call myself an ovo-lacto vegetarian, although I have been actively avoiding eggs and dairy for a couple of months or more - 'vegan' being a huge step and gets one into all that stuff about, well, was that sugar at the coffee shop improperly (as one might say) refined, was there any milk in that bread roll, etc. and what about the shoes on my feet (to offend by a few silly examples - for which I apologize - but you see what I mean.?) - and all that. I think it would be hard if one were to worry about the person who fell off the cherry picker and died while picking the fruit for a fruitarian, for example - worry about the death, but not about having *caused* the death. I think one can buy organic and avoid swatting bugs, if one wants to go that far. I buy organic, but I'm not too fastidious over crushing ants beneath my feet. It's all a matter of personal decision. If it is a *religious* matter, then one follows one's co-religionists or leads the way. If it is an ethical choice, then one decides for oneself and does not criticize others for not being so fastidious or ridicule them for being too fastidious. If it's an aesthetic choice (don't like meat/eggs/etc. or don't like the idea of killing critters to eat) then leave other people's aesthetic decisions alone. If it's for health reasons alone - why, heck, I don't even call those people vegetarians; I call em food faddists ;=) One must draw the line somewhere - and I suppose that's why it helps when people on this list say that they follow this or that philosophy or religion. It's useful to have something to help one know where the line should be. Me, I am not religious, so I am struggling for myself. But whatever decision I make I don't want to be told it's not good enough or that I am, conversely, going too far. Anyway, out went the white sugar ;=) sorry for the long long rather idiotic post - I was up late last night ;=) best, pat sant > Yes you have to draw a line somewhere- > but don't make fun or chide those who are more dedicated than you. After > all there's probably been a meat eater who's told you at you were being > pedantic or rediculous at some point. > -- SANTBROWN townhounds/ Personal Webpage: http://www.angelfire.com/art/pendragon/ ---------- * " Until he extends the circle of compassion to all living things, man will not himself find peace. " - Albert Schweitzer * " Don't be afraid. Just start the tape. " - Anne Rice * " I don't do pawprints. " -- Snoopy ---------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2003 Report Share Posted January 30, 2003 * 'vegan' being a huge step It sure is! I remember the night I went vegan, my mom fixed toasted cheese raviolis, something I hadn't had in at least a year or two. My mom used to constantly make fun of me for being vegetarian and I still wonder if she didn't fix those raviolis on purpose since she knew that I had decided to go vegan on that day. Anyway, cheese was the hardest thing to give up for me, and there aren't many good vegan cheese alternatives. And you have to watch EVERYTHING you eat, even olives and pickles (which can contain milk protein), but it's all worked out for the best in my situation. * I think one can buy organic and avoid swatting bugs, if one wants to go that far. Well, I *try* not to smash bugs if I have the choice, but I'm not going to say someone isn't a vegan because they smash bugs, ya know? * If it's for health reasons alone - why, heck, I don't even call those people vegetarians; I call em food faddists ;=) Oh my gosh, that is one of my BIGGEST pet peeves! People could care less about the torture and toil, not to mention the brutal death that their " meal " went through, but Lord knows if they find out it's unhealthy, they'll stop eating it because they don't want clogged arteries. But hey, at least they're stopping eating it. * Me, I am not religious, so I am struggling for myself. But whatever decision I make I don't want to be told it's not good enough or that I am, conversely, going too far. Exactly, us veggies/vegans need to stick together and push for more animal-friendly products and expose these " farms " instead of picking at each other and finding fault with one another. Liz Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2003 Report Share Posted January 30, 2003 * Would you eat something that may have contained meat products (eg something that has a emulsifier that is either veg or animal made but it doesn't say which)? Depends. * Would you eat something that *may* contain human corpse? See above. Is this " preach at Liz " day or something? * Avoiding unrefined sugar is different to " starving to death " Where did I say it was the same? I said if we took the logic FARTHER. Reading comprehension, ok? * I also know people who won't eat anything unless they have prepared it. Then that's their business, but people have no right to say someone is less vegan than they are simply because they hold different standards. * Yes you have to draw a line somewhere-but don't make fun or chide those who are more dedicated than you. Where did I do that at? I was responding to YOUR post about sugar with MY opinion, not talking about anyone in particular. Just because I don't eat a raw diet or live up to other peoples' standards doesn't make me less vegan or them better/more dedicated than I am. You seem to have a huge overly-inflated ego. Maybe you should take your own advice and quit being such a condescending snot. Get your foot out of my touche. Patchoulli....why did you invite me here if all people do is fight? This club sucks, I'm going to another place where we can UPLIFT and ENCOURAGE each other instead of debating about other topics and being mean to each other. Liz Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2003 Report Share Posted January 30, 2003 Lizard <oingoboingothemagicalpenguin> wrote: > Oh my gosh, that is one of my BIGGEST pet peeves! People could care less about the torture and toil, not to mention the brutal death > that their " meal " went through, but Lord knows if they find out it's unhealthy, they'll stop eating it because they don't want clogged > arteries. But hey, at least they're stopping eating it. I’m not an animal rights activist of any sort. Animal rights had nothing to do with my decision to stop eating meat. I made that choice for health reasons *gasp*, and because it was the right thing for me to do at the time. Personally, I’d be quite happy in a world without cats, mice, rats, spiders, and all kinds of other animals that I dislike. From dictionary.com (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=vegetarianism) : veg·e·tar·i·an·ism (vj-târ--nzm) n. The practice of subsisting on a diet composed primarily or wholly of vegetables, grains, fruits, nuts, and seeds, with or without eggs and dairy products. Source <http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=00-database-info & db=ahd4> : The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved. vegetarianism \Veg`e*ta " ri*an*ism\, n. The theory or practice of living upon vegetables and fruits. Source <http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=00-database-info & db=web1913> : Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, © 1996, 1998 MICRA, Inc. vegetarianism n : a diet excluding all meat and fish Source <http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=00-database-info & db=wn> : WordNet ® 1.6, © 1997 Princeton University No where in there do I see anything about animal rights crusading. If that’s a defining criteria, then I’ll happily eschew the label “vegetarian”, cuz I’m all for getting rid of the buggers that make my life less pleasant. > Exactly, us veggies/vegans need to stick together and push for more animal-friendly products and expose these " farms " instead of picking > at each other and finding fault with one another. Perhaps YOU need to. I certainly don’t. We all see things through our own filters, hm? Please don’t assume that mine are anything at all like yours. -- Sherri The Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) has determined that the maximum safe load capacity on my butt is two persons at a time, unless I install handrails or safety straps. Since you have arrived sixth in line to RIDE MY ASS today, please take a number and WAIT YOUR TURN! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2003 Report Share Posted January 30, 2003 On Thu, 30 Jan 2003, Lizard wrote: > * Yes you have to draw a line somewhere-but don't make fun or chide > those who are more dedicated than you. > > Where did I do that at? I was responding to YOUR post about sugar > with MY opinion, not talking about anyone in particular. Just because > I don't eat a raw diet or live up to other peoples' standards doesn't > make me less vegan or them better/more dedicated than I am. You seem > to have a huge overly-inflated ego. Maybe you should take your own > advice and quit being such a condescending snot. Get your foot out of > my touche. Well lets see. This is how I interperated the line of thought. You poked fun at people who avoid white sugar saying they were basically health fanatics. I then pointed out that maybe the reason they did this was becuase they bone char refined sugar was not acceptable to vegans, hence it wasn't health fanatical but rather they had an ethic problem than ran along the same vein reason they didn't eat meat etc. Your next post then said that it was okay to not buy sugar like that but it seemed a bit extreme/over the top to avoid it in products with the extention that you could go to the nth degree and starve to death. I found this comment to imply that you were critising people for drawing a line further back from you and that they were being fanatic for worrying about little things like bone char sugar. I don't think this was fair, hence my comment that maybe you've been chided for your own food choices (I don't know any vegetarians that haven't been) so it's not fair for you to chide others as being extreme. My post was aimed at getting you to think about what you said from the perspective of another person thinking that you were being extreme (eg the someone thinking you were extreme for not eating a product that may contain meat) not that you weren't " perfect " , " extreme enough " or anything like that. I am going to ignore your personal attacks as it's awfully imature, however I didn't mean to cause offense to you by my comments my aim was to offer a different viewpoint and to make you think differently about the way you judge someone. P_T I will look around for sites about the bone char, however as it is a US issue I don't have it off hand. In Australia bone char hasn't been used anywhere in over 12 years. > Patchoulli....why did you invite me here if all people do is fight? > This club sucks, I'm going to another place where we can UPLIFT and > ENCOURAGE each other instead of debating about other topics and being > mean to each other. I wouldn't have considered this to be fighting more open discussion, however it seems to be that it could turn nasty. I am on another veg list where all the topics that have been brought up over the recent weeks (GE, non-veg partners, abortion, extremists, oil, war etc) have been discussed from time to time. They get hotly debated however the list has some simple rules such as no swearing, no personal attacks, no taking things personally, only attacking arguments etc. It works really well and everyone has learnt alot from it even though alot of the discussion is waaaay off topic also people have very differing views and they all get along despite this. I guess I'm saying discussing hot topics can work and even though this list is unmoderated maybe we could have some lose rules such as the no swearing one that might make it a tad more friendly discussion. Hmmm this must be all very interesting to the new people on the list! Hello & welcome! Regards to the fish, LisA ICQ#: 15562604 *** www.gu.uwa.edu.au/clubs/vegies *** " I think---therefore I'm single... " -Lizz Winstead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2003 Report Share Posted January 30, 2003 And babies... --- Sherri <sherria wrote: > Lizard <oingoboingothemagicalpenguin> wrote: > > Oh my gosh, that is one of my BIGGEST pet peeves! > People could care > less about the torture and toil, not to mention the > brutal death > > that their " meal " went through, but Lord knows if > they find out it's > unhealthy, they'll stop eating it because they don't > want clogged > > arteries. But hey, at least they're stopping > eating it. > > I’m not an animal rights activist of any sort. > Animal rights had > nothing to do with my decision to stop eating meat. > I made that choice > for health reasons *gasp*, and because it was the > right thing for me to > do at the time. Personally, I’d be quite happy in a > world without cats, > mice, rats, spiders, and all kinds of other animals > that I dislike. > > > From dictionary.com > (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=vegetarianism) > : > veg·e·tar·i·an·ism (vj-târ--nzm) > n. > The practice of subsisting on a diet composed > primarily > or wholly of vegetables, grains, fruits, nuts, and > seeds, with or > without eggs and dairy products. > > > Source > <http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=00-database-info & db=ahd4> > : > The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English > Language, Fourth > Edition > 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company. > Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights > reserved. > > > vegetarianism > \Veg`e*ta " ri*an*ism\, n. The theory or practice of > living upon > vegetables and fruits. > > Source > <http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=00-database-info & db=web1913> > : > Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, © 1996, > 1998 MICRA, Inc. > > vegetarianism > n : a diet excluding all meat and fish > > Source > <http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=00-database-info & db=wn> > : WordNet ® 1.6, © 1997 Princeton University > > > No where in there do I see anything about animal > rights crusading. If > that’s a defining criteria, then I’ll happily eschew > the label > “vegetarian”, cuz I’m all for getting rid of the > buggers that make my > life less pleasant. > > > Exactly, us veggies/vegans need to stick together > and push for more > animal-friendly products and expose these " farms " > instead of picking > > at each other and finding fault with one another. > > Perhaps YOU need to. I certainly don’t. We all see > things through our > own filters, hm? Please don’t assume that mine are > anything at all like > yours. > > > -- > Sherri > > The Occupational Safety and Health Administration > (OSHA) has determined > that the maximum safe load capacity on my butt is > two persons at a time, > unless I install handrails or safety straps. Since > you have arrived > sixth in line to RIDE MY ASS today, please take a > number and WAIT YOUR > TURN! > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2003 Report Share Posted January 30, 2003 * Please don’t assume that mine are anything at all like yours. Hell, I don't even know who you are, so step off my damn back. -- Sherri The Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) has determined that the maximum safe load capacity on my butt is two persons at a time, unless I install handrails or safety straps. Since you have arrived sixth in line to RIDE MY ASS today, please take a number and WAIT YOUR TURN! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2003 Report Share Posted January 30, 2003 * I am going to ignore your personal attacks as it's awfully imature, I do not attack without provocation. I did not start this, as I recall, you decided to jump in and call me less dedicated and accused me of making fun of others because I stated my opinion. Im through with this club, have fun tearing out each other's eyeballs. Liz Peace , ~*Liz*~ _____ ~Don't argue with an idiot--they'll take you down to their level and beat you with experience~ ~Knocking stuff over is fun. Yesterday I wanted to make a city out of books and screech and knock them all over Godzilla-style.~ Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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