Guest guest Posted January 30, 2003 Report Share Posted January 30, 2003 > It's a disgusting an abhorant procedure. It should be > stopped, period. There are no absolutes, and are you seriously arguing it should be stopped because it's " icky " to you? lol Most medical procedures, and changing most diapers, should also be banned on this logic. > Yes, this may be a stepping stone to > further bans...But But what? Of course it is, and if you sell your freedoms and liberties so cheaply, are you sure you cherish them at all? > what a wonderful stepping stone. Is this viewpoint based on emotion? > I > am 200% supportive of this decision. Another impossibility. Seems logic is gone, then. > Ugh, what a sick > thing to do. Ever seen a colostomy bag? Or how about had a colo-rectal exam? Visit the ob-gyn lately? Medicine is full of procedures you'd find repulsive, guaranteed. We should no doubt stop them all, or at least run them by the overly sensitive in order to see if they are icky enough to ban. Isn't this why only a relative few can stomach becoming doctors? Hell, they have to carve up cadavers to qualify, for instance. That's icky, too. > Abortion in and of itself will not be > banned. ROFL! What theocracy do you inhabit? > Just this outright murder of a fully > functioning fetus. So is the draft. Rah rah, rally 'round the flag, boys. > Though I do support that it > (abortion) should be on a state level and NOT federal. > Each state should have the right to set laws > regarding this Why? What the fuck does any government at any level know about medical procedures, let along regulating who should get them, etc? Fascism, pure and simple. > and not the National Government. Of > course, I feel the National Government should stay out > of everything. LOL - mindless rule of thumb? > Thoroughly Repulsed, Break your mirrors. > Allison " Jazz is meditation, rocke and roll is celebration. " --Diogenes Trannel, keyboard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2003 Report Share Posted January 30, 2003 You're comparing a partial birth to a colo-rectal exam? No, I don't think that partial birth is a medical procedure, it's murder. Dilating a woman's cervix in her second or third trimester, alowing the fetus to crown, stabbing it in the back of the head, killing it and then delivering the rest of it's body is absolutely, positively sick. Have you seen one performed? Did you like looking at the little fingers tremble and hands open and close rapidly as the sharp instrument enters it's precious skull? Did you like watching it die? A human baby? Not some tumor, but a baby? HELP me oh great gods of lunacy...Don't kill animals but kill all the babies you want. Sick fuck. And you advocating such perversion is exactly what I wanted to avoid. You're not advocating a first trimester abortion...You're defending outright murder. SO I suppose you support the death penalty? Probably not, someone like you would much rather kill the babies BEFORE they have a chance to grow up and murder...All those already here deserve to live. And don't belittle my emotional involvement with this issue by calling it *icky*...How dare you. And shame on you for being so callous. Warmly, Allison --- The Stewarts <stews9 wrote: > > It's a disgusting an abhorant procedure. It > should be > > stopped, period. > > There are no absolutes, and are you seriously > arguing it should be stopped > because it's " icky " to you? lol > > Most medical procedures, and changing most diapers, > should also be banned > on this logic. > > > Yes, this may be a stepping stone to > > further bans...But > > But what? Of course it is, and if you sell your > freedoms and liberties so > cheaply, are you sure you cherish them at all? > > > what a wonderful stepping stone. > > Is this viewpoint based on emotion? > > > I > > am 200% supportive of this decision. > > Another impossibility. Seems logic is gone, then. > > > Ugh, what a sick > > thing to do. > > Ever seen a colostomy bag? Or how about had a > colo-rectal exam? Visit > the ob-gyn lately? Medicine is full of procedures > you'd find repulsive, > guaranteed. We should no doubt stop them all, or at > least run them by the > overly sensitive in order to see if they are icky > enough to ban. > > Isn't this why only a relative few can stomach > becoming doctors? Hell, > they have to carve up cadavers to qualify, for > instance. That's icky, too. > > > Abortion in and of itself will not be > > banned. > > ROFL! What theocracy do you inhabit? > > > Just this outright murder of a fully > > functioning fetus. > > So is the draft. Rah rah, rally 'round the flag, > boys. > > > Though I do support that it > > (abortion) should be on a state level and NOT > federal. > > Each state should have the right to set laws > > regarding this > > Why? What the fuck does any government at any level > know about medical > procedures, let along regulating who should get > them, etc? Fascism, pure > and simple. > > > and not the National Government. Of > > course, I feel the National Government should stay > out > > of everything. > > LOL - mindless rule of thumb? > > > Thoroughly Repulsed, > > Break your mirrors. > > > Allison > > > > " Jazz is meditation, rocke and roll is celebration. " > --Diogenes Trannel, keyboard > > Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2003 Report Share Posted January 30, 2003 Heck, I think all abortion is murder, but this isn't the abortion debate club, unless I'm mistaken....(I just joined a couple of days ago). Allison Nations <allyanne2001 wrote:You're comparing a partial birth to a colo-rectal exam? No, I don't think that partial birth is a medical procedure, it's murder. Dilating a woman's cervix in her second or third trimester, alowing the fetus to crown, stabbing it in the back of the head, killing it and then delivering the rest of it's body is absolutely, positively sick. Have you seen one performed? Did you like looking at the little fingers tremble and hands open and close rapidly as the sharp instrument enters it's precious skull? Did you like watching it die? A human baby? Not some tumor, but a baby? HELP me oh great gods of lunacy...Don't kill animals but kill all the babies you want. Sick fuck. And you advocating such perversion is exactly what I wanted to avoid. You're not advocating a first trimester abortion...You're defending outright murder. SO I suppose you support the death penalty? Probably not, someone like you would much rather kill the babies BEFORE they have a chance to grow up and murder...All those already here deserve to live. And don't belittle my emotional involvement with this issue by calling it *icky*...How dare you. And shame on you for being so callous. Warmly, Allison --- The Stewarts <stews9 wrote: > > It's a disgusting an abhorant procedure. It > should be > > stopped, period. > > There are no absolutes, and are you seriously > arguing it should be stopped > because it's " icky " to you? lol > > Most medical procedures, and changing most diapers, > should also be banned > on this logic. > > > Yes, this may be a stepping stone to > > further bans...But > > But what? Of course it is, and if you sell your > freedoms and liberties so > cheaply, are you sure you cherish them at all? > > > what a wonderful stepping stone. > > Is this viewpoint based on emotion? > > > I > > am 200% supportive of this decision. > > Another impossibility. Seems logic is gone, then. > > > Ugh, what a sick > > thing to do. > > Ever seen a colostomy bag? Or how about had a > colo-rectal exam? Visit > the ob-gyn lately? Medicine is full of procedures > you'd find repulsive, > guaranteed. We should no doubt stop them all, or at > least run them by the > overly sensitive in order to see if they are icky > enough to ban. > > Isn't this why only a relative few can stomach > becoming doctors? Hell, > they have to carve up cadavers to qualify, for > instance. That's icky, too. > > > Abortion in and of itself will not be > > banned. > > ROFL! What theocracy do you inhabit? > > > Just this outright murder of a fully > > functioning fetus. > > So is the draft. Rah rah, rally 'round the flag, > boys. > > > Though I do support that it > > (abortion) should be on a state level and NOT > federal. > > Each state should have the right to set laws > > regarding this > > Why? What the fuck does any government at any level > know about medical > procedures, let along regulating who should get > them, etc? Fascism, pure > and simple. > > > and not the National Government. Of > > course, I feel the National Government should stay > out > > of everything. > > LOL - mindless rule of thumb? > > > Thoroughly Repulsed, > > Break your mirrors. > > > Allison > > > > " Jazz is meditation, rocke and roll is celebration. " > --Diogenes Trannel, keyboard > > Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2003 Report Share Posted January 30, 2003 On Thu, 30 Jan 2003, Allison Nations wrote: > You're comparing a partial birth to a colo-rectal > exam? No, I don't think that partial birth is a > medical procedure, it's murder. What if the woman cannot continue the pregnancy for medical reasons (ie she would die if she went to full term)? The woman has a life, she knows people & has interactions with them, she can experess and feel emotion, she is sentient, a unborn baby is not. What if the baby was deformed/disabled? Will you be the one to look after it & go through all the emotional/financial strain? I love it how people who against abortion never seem to adopt all those unwanted children, nor help raise them in any way. What if the woman said she would kill it or herself anyway (ie she wasn't mentally fit to care for a baby)? Oh & you think it's so easy to adopt out a child that isn't 100% healthy? All forms of abortion are not an easy choice for a woman to make, maybe you should stop controling other people and let them have the right to control their body. > HELP me oh great gods of lunacy...Don't kill > animals but kill all the babies you want. Sick fuck. So unborn human life is somehow more important than sentient non-human life? That is so very speciesist. Logic ( & science) tells you a full grown pig is more aware of its surroundings than an unborn human. I suggest you read " Rethinking life & death " or talking to people in the medical field that have to deal with unwanted and sick children. > And you advocating such perversion is exactly what I > wanted to avoid. You're not advocating a first > trimester abortion...You're defending outright murder. How is it a " perversion " ? > SO I suppose you support the death penalty? Probably > not, someone like you would much rather kill the > babies BEFORE they have a chance to grow up and > murder...All those already here deserve to live. How is the death penalty related to abortion? Death penalty is killing someone (who may be innocent- it's happend on many occassions) for a crime, wouldn't it be a better punishment to have them locked up so they can think about what they did for the rest of their life rather than giving them an easy way out? Abortion is about getting rid of a unwanted unborn baby who is not sentient (and in some cases never will be). > And don't belittle my emotional involvement with this > issue by calling it *icky*...How dare you. And shame > on you for being so callous. maybe if you used real logic or scientifc evidence in your argument rather than swearing, personally attacking anothers belief system and saying it's " gross " " disgusting " etc one would not find so many holes in your argument. Out of curiousity have you had to care for mentally disbabled people? I have and having seen the emotional stress and financial strain on families I would support anyone who wished to allow a newborn to die or have an abortion becuase it would be a difficult choice- but one that has positive outcomes in the long run. Against abortion? Simple, don't have one. Regards to the fish, LisA ICQ#: 15562604 *** www.gu.uwa.edu.au/clubs/vegies *** " I think---therefore I'm single... " -Lizz Winstead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2003 Report Share Posted January 30, 2003 And what if she isn't? Most of the abortions are NOT for medical reasons. And you're saying that disabled people have no right to live. Gee, I'll be sure to let my retarded cousin know how people feel about him. He would have been better off killed by a sociopathic physician. And yes, I played a big part of his upbringing. And you? And how do you know a baby doesn't feel emotion inside of a womb. Yep, just go on telling yourself that. And who said I'm controlling what women do? Oh yes, I'm out there controlling women left and right. As a childbirth educator, I've counseled women. As a mentor for our local highschool...I've counseled teenagers faced with such decisions. I certainly don't control them or push my views. Oh please. This is something an ignorant person such as yourself needs to discuss with me. Not to mention absolutely twisted. Who the hell are you to assume anything? I will from now on ignore anything you post. I find you menacing and pathetic. Seems like you're doing a good job of pissing people off. Good for you. --- Lisa Green <moonbug wrote: > On Thu, 30 Jan 2003, Allison Nations wrote: > > > You're comparing a partial birth to a colo-rectal > > exam? No, I don't think that partial birth is a > > medical procedure, it's murder. > > What if the woman cannot continue the pregnancy for > medical reasons (ie > she would die if she went to full term)? The woman > has a life, she knows > people & has interactions with them, she can > experess and feel emotion, > she is sentient, a unborn baby is not. > > What if the baby was deformed/disabled? Will you be > the one to look after > it & go through all the emotional/financial strain? > I love it how people > who against abortion never seem to adopt all those > unwanted children, nor > help raise them in any way. > > What if the woman said she would kill it or herself > anyway (ie she wasn't > mentally fit to care for a baby)? Oh & you think > it's so easy to adopt out > a child that isn't 100% healthy? > > All forms of abortion are not an easy choice for a > woman to make, maybe > you should stop controling other people and let them > have the right to > control their body. > > > HELP me oh great gods of lunacy...Don't kill > > animals but kill all the babies you want. Sick > fuck. > > So unborn human life is somehow more important than > sentient non-human > life? That is so very speciesist. Logic ( & science) > tells you a full grown > pig is more aware of its surroundings than an unborn > human. I suggest you > read " Rethinking life & death " or talking to people > in the medical field > that have to deal with unwanted and sick children. > > > And you advocating such perversion is exactly what > I > > wanted to avoid. You're not advocating a first > > trimester abortion...You're defending outright > murder. > > How is it a " perversion " ? > > > SO I suppose you support the death penalty? > Probably > > not, someone like you would much rather kill the > > babies BEFORE they have a chance to grow up and > > murder...All those already here deserve to live. > > How is the death penalty related to abortion? Death > penalty is killing > someone (who may be innocent- it's happend on many > occassions) for a > crime, wouldn't it be a better punishment to have > them locked up so they > can think about what they did for the rest of their > life rather than > giving them an easy way out? Abortion is about > getting rid of a unwanted > unborn baby who is not sentient (and in some cases > never will be). > > > And don't belittle my emotional involvement with > this > > issue by calling it *icky*...How dare you. And > shame > > on you for being so callous. > > maybe if you used real logic or scientifc evidence > in your argument rather > than swearing, personally attacking anothers belief > system and saying it's > " gross " " disgusting " etc one would not find so many > holes in your > argument. > > Out of curiousity have you had to care for mentally > disbabled people? I > have and having seen the emotional stress and > financial strain on > families I would support anyone who wished to allow > a newborn to die or > have an abortion becuase it would be a difficult > choice- but one that has > positive outcomes in the long run. > > Against abortion? Simple, don't have one. > > Regards to the fish, > LisA > ICQ#: 15562604 > *** www.gu.uwa.edu.au/clubs/vegies *** > > " I think---therefore I'm single... " > -Lizz Winstead > > > Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2003 Report Share Posted January 30, 2003 Allison Nations <allyanne2001> wrote: > You're comparing a partial birth to a colo-rectal > exam? I certainly see the comparison. What's not clear about it? > No, I don't think that partial birth is a > medical procedure, it's murder. How are you defining " medical procedure " , then? Partial birth abortion certainly fits MY definition of " medical procedure " . YMMV, obviously. > HELP me oh great gods of lunacy...Don't kill > animals but kill all the babies you want. Sick fuck. Those of us who advocate CHOICE don't try to shove our decisions down your throat, or condemn you for the choices you make about your body. You should consider allowing us the same respect. Pro-choice doesn't mean pro-abortion. Its about giving women back the power to make decisions about their OWN bodies, and that includes the choice to carry a pregnancy to term if that's what the mother decides is best. I'd have though that you, as a soon-to-be-midwife, would understand how ugly it is to have that sort of choice taken away by the bureaucracy. The government has no business in decisions that are made by me, about my body, with the advice of my physician. Period. Its still MY body, afterall. And just fyi, some of us are vegetarians without being animal rights crusaders. > You're not advocating a first > trimester abortion...You're defending outright murder. A fetus is a parasite, not a person. Use all the shock tactics you want. Try to make it as repulsive as you can, but unless and until its living on its own outside its host's body, it IS a parasite. And if its living in (and on) MY body, I don't want anyone else telling me what I can or can not do about it. Sometimes abortion is the right choice, regardless of whether or not you personally approve. > And don't belittle my emotional involvement with this > issue by calling it *icky*... Your emotional involvement is interfering with your ability to logically debate. > Warmly, > Allison Sounds pretty cold to me. -- Sherri " To see what is in front of one's nose requires a constant struggle. " - George Orwell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2003 Report Share Posted January 30, 2003 When you both realize that the other person is simply trying to do what they believe is best; that the intention for good is there but the interperetation of how to bring about the best good differs; you will soon see that you are both the exact same person, walking in different shoes, and have been shaped by 'minute' details that you are assuming the other person knows; in fact- we all argue very strongly about what we believe, but the common undercurrent is that we are all arguing in favour of what we believe is 'goodness'. Keep that in mind next time you wish to attack each other; it'll make it a little harder. In the other person's situation, you would be saying exactly what you are arguing against; however, you have incomplete knowledge of their tiny detailed experiences and as such base your opinion of them on not what they have experienced but what 'you' have seen, which is really ego-masterbation... in fact, we all actually get along much more than we fight. Except for that 'The Stewarts' guy. He's a troublemaker if I ever saw one You'll have to forgive me; I've been performing Buddhist rituals all night and I'm a little energized right now. -K- p.s. Please don't use the term 'retarded', I know once it was acceptable, but it's derogatory, like a racial slur. TY ===== Where is this beauty? I search and search and then find, We are the lotus. Om Mani Padme Hum Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2003 Report Share Posted January 30, 2003 On Thu, 30 Jan 2003, Allison Nations wrote: > And what if she isn't? Most of the abortions are NOT > for medical reasons. This is true, but some of them are and an across the board ban on abortion (or in this case late abortion) would make it impossible for the women who do need one for medical reasons to have one. > And you're saying that disabled people have no right > to live. Gee, I'll be sure to let my retarded cousin > know how people feel about him. He would have been > better off killed by a sociopathic physician. And > yes, I played a big part of his upbringing. And you? I work in the medical field with a mixture of people, some of whom are mentally disabled. And I didn't say I was " against " disabled people I pointed out that not all people can/want/are stable enough to raise a child that is disabled and it is not fair to force them to if they feel they cannot for whatever reason. Adoption is often given as a alternative, however babies that aren't healthy are often not wanted. And how is a physician who is performing a procedure that his/her client wants sociopathic? > And how do you know a baby doesn't feel emotion inside > of a womb. Yep, just go on telling yourself that. Well does it? Does a newborn infant? Where do we draw the line of sentience? Perhaps only adults are sentient and small children are not? Perhaps we are from the moment of conception? The argument that they feel is no more sustainable than the argument they don't. > And who said I'm controlling what women do? Oh yes, > I'm out there controlling women left and right. As a > childbirth educator, I've counseled women. As a > mentor for our local highschool...I've counseled > teenagers faced with such decisions. I certainly > don't control them or push my views. > Oh please. By denying a person the right to a medical procedure by law becuase you personally have an ethical problem with it is controling what they are allowed to do with their body. I'm not advocating people should be forced into having abortions, but rather they should have the educated choice to. > This is something an ignorant person such as yourself > needs to discuss with me. Not to mention absolutely > twisted. Who the hell are you to assume anything? > I will from now on ignore anything you post. I find > you menacing and pathetic. Seems like you're doing a > good job of pissing people off. Good for you. In this post you haven't rebutted any of the arguments I have put forward and contued to use emotional terms. Perhaps it is you that is twisted becuase you don't wish to hear the other point of view. Regards to the fish, LisA ICQ#: 15562604 *** www.gu.uwa.edu.au/clubs/vegies *** " I think---therefore I'm single... " -Lizz Winstead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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