Guest guest Posted February 5, 2003 Report Share Posted February 5, 2003 .....um, my last point, which you responded 'well that adds new dimensions to the dialogue' wasn't from a 'veggie' site, nor was it misinformation, nor was it biased, it was a source based on the methods of production... inferring that im spreading 'misinformation' is insulting and elitist. keep your tone, and notice, if i am correct, all your info comes from one source.. usu. Which is hardly reliable, as i have no faith in the majority of the academic world, and less in the american academic system. I use multiple sources, some of which are 'pro' vegetarian and i dont deny that.. and some arent and say even more towards what im trying to prove. The fact remains the standards are lax for the proper labeling, and your cheese isnt necessarily 'rennet-free' just because it doesnt say rennet. Not to mention we havent even gotten into the subject of mixed batching to produce coagulants using both sources, non veg and veg alike, which would hide the use of animal products under blanket labels. Anyways, im not interested in an ego clash, or being labelled a spreader of 'misinformation'. The entire american culture that propagates factory farming, the absence of standards that would keep this entire issue quite clear, and the most damage to the environment, health of people and suffering of others, relies upon a bombardment of 'misinformation' while labelling anyone who has an outside view as exactly that... thanks but i dont need the dogma. I offered to use my own free time to find out more info for everyone, not to set myself up so I can be attacked, however, insidiously. As an aside, Im not in the slight bit peeved, either, I just learned a lot about the production of cheese in the past couple days. cheers, k --- daveo <daveo wrote: > > Yes and no, Sara. Soy cheese DOES have " rennet " in > it, but that " is not " > the same as " rennin, " see below for further > explanation. > > So, while all of this talk of " calf stomachs " was in > fact very TRUE prior to > 1990, today it is just " MISinformation coming from > only ONE member. " > > I repost this info from a prior email: > > " ...Until 1990, the only source of " rennin " was > calves. Since chymosin is > the most important enzyme in " rennin " for > coagulating milk, scientists > created a " system to make chymosin that doesn't > require calves " ...the " gene > for chymosin " was cut from a calf cell and inserted > into the " genomes of > bacteria and yeast. The microbes make an exact copy > of the calf chymosin. > [Once this laboratory copy is made, it is no longer > an animal tissue.] > Microbes replicate and grow rapidly, and can be > grown continuously. Thus, > > the supply of " rennet " [notice here that " rennet " > refers to the lab copy of > the calf enzyme] is assured [with this non animal > tissue process]. > > Approximately 70% of the cheese made in the U.S. is > coagulated using > chymosin [from this microbe replicate]. " [emphasis > added] Source: > http://www.usu.edu/biotech/education_outreach/cheese_lab.html > > > Also, I notice that upon visiting many veggie sites > exposing " hidden animal > products " in our food, they " do not " distinguish > between " rennin " and > " rennet, " which we now know to be " an error " of > classification. > > For those who do not know me, I have been veggie for > almost 22 years, and I > do not take it lightly. I won't present info to > this group without > scientific data to support my claim and a supporting > link so that no one has > to only take my word for something. > > Sadly, anyone who relys solely on the veggie sites > " on this particular > point " continues to spead misinformation. > > DaveO > > > > > > Stuquartville > [stuquartville] > > Soy cheese won't have rennet in it, will it? Ugh, > that really grosses me out > > to think I've been eating the inside of a baby cows' > stomache! I'm going to > try really really hard not to eat any dairy now. > What will it say on the > label for the rennet? > ~Sara > > > ===== Where is this beauty? I search and search and then find, We are the lotus. Om Mani Padme Hum Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 5, 2003 Report Share Posted February 5, 2003 and soy cheese usually wont have rennet, but it will have cassien, or casien, and that is an animal byproduct, unfortunately. k ===== Where is this beauty? I search and search and then find, We are the lotus. Om Mani Padme Hum Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 5, 2003 Report Share Posted February 5, 2003 Rennin and rennet are different chemical substances. Using them interchangably is not useful!!! One is animal based, the other is NOT! 70% usage is hardly rare... Misinformation is our biggest enemy.. DaveO Pat Meadows [pat] On Tue, 4 Feb 2003 12:22:39 -0800 (PST), you wrote: >But. there is hope.. there's another process (rarely >used) that replaces the rennet with microbial enzymes >to hold the cheese together.. it's still not vegan, >and still bad for your health and promotes all the I don't think it's 'rarely used' anymore, I think it's quite common. There are a whole lot of rennetless cheeses around, if you look for them. Pat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 5, 2003 Report Share Posted February 5, 2003 This is what i found, from several different sources: depending on your country, the amount of cheese intake in your population will increase the odds of reradily available 'vegtarian' cheeses.. so high population+ high dairy intake = more options. conversely, there are several countries which use nothing but calf stomach rennet.. scotland is one (i ended up on a scottish cheesemaking website, it was quite interesting, i didnt know scottish cheese was so angry.) so your options for getting 'vegetarian' cheese are limited at best. this might explain some of the confusion... being that the US has some of the highest dairy consumption in the world, id say its very fair to say there's a lot of 'vegetarian' cheese out there. that being said, never in my life have i seen a cheese that was labelled 'rennin' nor have i heard the term before the discussion and i havent seen it very often outside of it.. this doesnt mean it doesnt exist, it just means that just because Usu uses that label, somebody else might be calling it something totally different. As for mixing animal and non animal ingredients, the active component in the chemical process is chymosin, which when produced either from calves or fungi, as far as i know, assembles the exact same way and would be completely interchangeable; Im not a food scientist but my knowledge of science (and logic) says that a chemical compound is the exact same regardless of whether it is produced naturally or synthetically. Also, although your cheese may be labelled 'rennet-free' there is a large sector of coagulants derived from replicating the cells of the same calves used to make rennet (they dont cut them open, take out the cells , then set the calf free) which IMHO is not just contributing to the same exploitative industry (given the option to abstain altogether from said industry) but also dangerously close to genetically modified foods, if that is something that interests or concerns you. Once again, I'm still looking, I'm no expert, but I am hopping around sources from all over the world, and I'm getting a lot of conflicting information. -k- --- daveo <daveo wrote: > > Rennin and rennet are different chemical substances. > Using them > interchangably is not useful!!! One is animal > based, the other is NOT! > > 70% usage is hardly rare... > > Misinformation is our biggest enemy.. > > DaveO > > > > Pat Meadows [pat] > > On Tue, 4 Feb 2003 12:22:39 -0800 (PST), you wrote: > >But. there is hope.. there's another process > (rarely > >used) that replaces the rennet with microbial > enzymes > >to hold the cheese together.. it's still not vegan, > >and still bad for your health and promotes all the > > I don't think it's 'rarely used' anymore, I think > it's quite common. There > are a whole lot of rennetless cheeses around, if you > look for them. > > Pat > > > ===== Where is this beauty? I search and search and then find, We are the lotus. Om Mani Padme Hum Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 5, 2003 Report Share Posted February 5, 2003 In this email you make a number of interesting points but somehow fail to support even one of them with a single link from anywhere in the " global scientific community. " I assume you respect some data sources somewhere on the planet. Your having faith in the american academic system doesn't prove or disprove the assertions about " rennet " from Utah State University. If they misrepresented the process, then show us how they did it. Continuing to assert that " rennin " and " rennet " are the same chemical substance after you've been shown contrary info is only one step on the " misinformation " pathway. If the assertion from Utah State Univ is incorrect, then present cogent info to contradict it. You have not done so. Until you do, I stand by my assertion that you are spreading misinformation. DaveO Mr.Graves [sleepingtao] .....um, my last point, which you responded 'well that adds new dimensions to the dialogue' wasn't from a 'veggie' site, nor was it misinformation, nor was it biased, it was a source based on the methods of production... inferring that im spreading 'misinformation' is insulting and elitist. keep your tone, and notice, if i am correct, all your info comes from one source.. usu. Which is hardly reliable, as i have no faith in the majority of the academic world, and less in the american academic system. I use multiple sources, some of which are 'pro' vegetarian and i dont deny that.. and some arent and say even more towards what im trying to prove. The fact remains the standards are lax for the proper labeling, and your cheese isnt necessarily 'rennet-free' just because it doesnt say rennet. Not to mention we havent even gotten into the subject of mixed batching to produce coagulants using both sources, non veg and veg alike, which would hide the use of animal products under blanket labels. Anyways, im not interested in an ego clash, or being labelled a spreader of 'misinformation'. The entire american culture that propagates factory farming, the absence of standards that would keep this entire issue quite clear, and the most damage to the environment, health of people and suffering of others, relies upon a bombardment of 'misinformation' while labelling anyone who has an outside view as exactly that... thanks but i dont need the dogma. I offered to use my own free time to find out more info for everyone, not to set myself up so I can be attacked, however, insidiously. As an aside, Im not in the slight bit peeved, either, I just learned a lot about the production of cheese in the past couple days. cheers, k Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 5, 2003 Report Share Posted February 5, 2003 perhaps you get my emails far after i send them... read the one about seppukku, if you havent gotten it yet. i provided the link where i got my info; the first one was from a pro veg group, the second one was from a production site, if im correct and the last bacth of info i got was mostly from Kraft, which i think is one of the biggest distributors in america, and is probably a lot more involved in the dairy industry than any university. we shall now commence the running around in circles, shouting neah neah, after which, a short break, then the obligatory fork and spoon fight over a rubber chicken vis a vis weird al video for 'eat it' which i feel should settle all nutritional debates. with honour, at least. *runs around DaveO in circles* *neah neah* K --- daveo <daveo wrote: > > In this email you make a number of interesting > points but somehow fail to > support even one of them with a single link from > anywhere in the " global > scientific community. " I assume you respect some > data sources somewhere on > the planet. > > Your having faith in the american academic system > doesn't prove or disprove > the assertions about " rennet " from Utah State > University. If they > misrepresented the process, then show us how they > did it. > > Continuing to assert that " rennin " and " rennet " are > the same chemical > substance after you've been shown contrary info is > only one step on the > " misinformation " pathway. If the assertion from > Utah State Univ is > incorrect, then present cogent info to contradict > it. You have not done so. > > > Until you do, I stand by my assertion that you are > spreading misinformation. > > DaveO > > > > > Mr.Graves [sleepingtao] > > ....um, my last point, which you responded 'well > that > adds new dimensions to the dialogue' wasn't from a > 'veggie' site, nor was it misinformation, nor was it > biased, it was a source based on the methods of > production... inferring that im spreading > 'misinformation' is insulting and elitist. keep your > tone, and notice, if i am correct, all your info > comes > from one source.. usu. Which is hardly reliable, as > i > have no faith in the majority of the academic world, > and less in the american academic system. I use > multiple sources, some of which are 'pro' vegetarian > and i dont deny that.. and some arent and say even > more towards what im trying to prove. The fact > remains > the standards are lax for the proper labeling, and > your cheese isnt necessarily 'rennet-free' just > because it doesnt say rennet. > > Not to mention we havent even gotten into the > subject > of mixed batching to produce coagulants using both > sources, non veg and veg alike, which would hide the > use of animal products under blanket labels. > > Anyways, im not interested in an ego clash, or being > labelled a spreader of 'misinformation'. The entire > american culture that propagates factory farming, > the > absence of standards that would keep this entire > issue > quite clear, and the most damage to the environment, > health of people and suffering of others, relies > upon > a bombardment of 'misinformation' while labelling > anyone who has an outside view as exactly that... > thanks but i dont need the dogma. I offered to use > my > own free time to find out more info for everyone, > not > to set myself up so I can be attacked, however, > insidiously. > > As an aside, Im not in the slight bit peeved, > either, > I just learned a lot about the production of cheese > in > the past couple days. > > cheers, > k > > > ===== Where is this beauty? I search and search and then find, We are the lotus. Om Mani Padme Hum Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 5, 2003 Report Share Posted February 5, 2003 i agree this is going nowhere, personally i'm just going to avoid the damn cheese, it's bad for me anyway. and unless it says rennetless or at least vegetarian on the package it probably isn't. even some meat- eaters are offended by veal so i kind of doubt a company would lie about not putting baby cow guts in their cheese. , " Jennifer <m0lebul0r@h...> " <m0lebul0r@h...> wrote: > I'm not a vegan or political in my views in vegetarianism at > all....but this sounds an awful lot like rationalizing something so > you don't feel guilty about it. > If you are very strict in your views about rennet or not, the best > suggestion would be to call the cheese's company and ask for a > confirmation directly. Yes, you may have to go through some red tape, > but I have done things like this in the past and really it's the only > way to be sure of the nature of some ingrediants.And more than likely > if the person making the phone call does not sound like an annoyed > trial lawyer the company is more than happy to provide the > information. Tell them you have an allergy....they almost ALWAYS > cough up a plethora of info. > But really all you guys are doing now is the battle of wills. It > doesn't sound like anybody is really convincing anyone of anything. > When it comes right down to it...people are going to believe in what > they want and need to believe in. And the whole " convince me " > arguement is mind-numbing. Convince yourself. Research through the > proper channels. > Me personally however, if I were a strict vegetarian and there was > any question of the claims of rennet and such, it seems it would be > best just to avoid the offending product until totally proven it > didn't have animal-derived products in it. Especially since it is > quite easy to find KNOWN safe products. The speculation going on from > both sides is killing me though... > > > , " daveo " <daveo@m...> wrote: > > > > Interesting...a few more details are added...I'm not quite sure how > the > > dialogue has changed. > > > > DaveO > > > > > > > > > > > > Mr.Graves [sleepingtao] > > > > I thought id clear something up; I only gave a quick > > summary of what the whole nonvegetarian cheese thing > > is... since using a pro-vegetarian site as resource is 'propaganda' > to some > > (everything is propaganda to me) I'll just use this source, which > is fairly > > neutral.. although it bugs me to think people are content to assume > a > > university ssource os onjective and a political source isnt.. they > both have > > vested interests. Its amazing some of the horrendous things the > academic > > world has worked very hard to justify in our society. Anyways, here > it is, > > you should read it all, the part about rennet at the bottom is > pretty > > scary... and shows that regardless of how your cheese is labelled, > it may > > still not be vegetarian, if i read it right: > > > > What are coagulating enzymes and how do they create > > cheese? > > In order for milk to coagulate and eventually become > > cheese, enzymes must be added to breakdown the > > -----clipped----- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 5, 2003 Report Share Posted February 5, 2003 i agree with you also, lol , " Mr.Graves " <sleepingtao> wrote: > i disagree. I dont think there's any battle of wills, > dave and i always seem to share info this way, even > off the , in private. The whole concept to > me was that different sources, both reliable, would > give you nearly opposite information... it's really a > dialectic process, thesis, antithises, synthesis. And > in the end, I got to see the source that dave got his > info from and learn from it, so now i have more info > and im grateful.. cause honestly, the idea made me get > up off my butt and learn more about it. > > i just avoid cheese whenever i can... although im not > perfect.. i was overjoyed to find soy cheese in a > market last week, took it home, and found casien, > spelled differently on it.. did some research, found > out it was the same casien... but i didnt feel like a > murderer. I wouldnt go calling companies, though, the > amount of time on the phone isnt worth my money, but > thats just me. I think if we refrain from opposing > each others views, we do each other a disservice... as > long as we have the humility and maturity to do it > respectfully and mindfull of our own ignorance. But Im > an avid r to Socrates and Plato's dialectics. > I just think if no one disagreed, maybe we'd all still > be eating greaseburgers right now. > > -k- > > --- " Jennifer <m0lebul0r@h...> " > <m0lebul0r@h...> wrote: > > I'm not a vegan or political in my views in > > vegetarianism at > > all....but this sounds an awful lot like > > rationalizing something so > > you don't feel guilty about it. > > If you are very strict in your views about rennet > > or not, the best > > suggestion would be to call the cheese's company and > > ask for a > > confirmation directly. Yes, you may have to go > > through some red tape, > > but I have done things like this in the past and > > really it's the only > > way to be sure of the nature of some ingrediants.And > > more than likely > > if the person making the phone call does not sound > > like an annoyed > > trial lawyer the company is more than happy to > > provide the > > information. Tell them you have an allergy....they > > almost ALWAYS > > cough up a plethora of info. > > But really all you guys are doing now is the > > battle of wills. It > > doesn't sound like anybody is really convincing > > anyone of anything. > > When it comes right down to it...people are going to > > believe in what > > they want and need to believe in. And the whole > > " convince me " > > arguement is mind-numbing. Convince yourself. > > Research through the > > proper channels. > > Me personally however, if I were a strict vegetarian > > and there was > > any question of the claims of rennet and such, it > > seems it would be > > best just to avoid the offending product until > > totally proven it > > didn't have animal-derived products in it. > > Especially since it is > > quite easy to find KNOWN safe products. The > > speculation going on from > > both sides is killing me though... > > > > > > , " daveo " > > <daveo@m...> wrote: > > > > > > Interesting...a few more details are added...I'm > > not quite sure how > > the > > > dialogue has changed. > > > > > > DaveO > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mr.Graves [sleepingtao] > > > > > > I thought id clear something up; I only gave a > > quick > > > summary of what the whole nonvegetarian cheese > > thing > > > is... since using a pro-vegetarian site as > > resource is 'propaganda' > > to some > > > (everything is propaganda to me) I'll just use > > this source, which > > is fairly > > > neutral.. although it bugs me to think people are > > content to assume > > a > > > university ssource os onjective and a political > > source isnt.. they > > both have > > > vested interests. Its amazing some of the > > horrendous things the > > academic > > > world has worked very hard to justify in our > > society. Anyways, here > > it is, > > > you should read it all, the part about rennet at > > the bottom is > > pretty > > > scary... and shows that regardless of how your > > cheese is labelled, > > it may > > > still not be vegetarian, if i read it right: > > > > > > What are coagulating enzymes and how do they > > create > > > cheese? > > > In order for milk to coagulate and eventually > > become > > > cheese, enzymes must be added to breakdown the > > > -----clipped----- > > > > > > > ===== > > Where is this beauty? > > I search and search and then find, > > We are the lotus. > > > > Om Mani Padme Hum > > > > > Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. > http://mailplus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 5, 2003 Report Share Posted February 5, 2003 This has been the whole point of my emails. Rennet " IS NOT " from the barnyard. It is from the LAB. Remember in that article I posted, " rennin " was not a reliable source for cheese making, so they found another one. Too bad they didn't call it some other name that would have avoided this whole debate. DaveO dave <dave4sale [dave4sale] >>...unless it says rennetless or at least vegetarian on the package it probably isn't.<< Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 6, 2003 Report Share Posted February 6, 2003 More interesting reading on Milk/dairy, for those who wish to continue to drink it: http://www.mercola.com/article/Diet/milk/no_milk.htm Rennet, or rennin, makes no difference, cheese is nothing more than a concentrated source of the antibiotics and hormones mentioned in this article. I say that cow's milk was intended for nursing infant cows, not for daily human consumption. Each species of mammal on earth makes the type of milk for their own young. I do not care to drink bodily fluids from an animal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 6, 2003 Report Share Posted February 6, 2003 thanks for the link, Cheryll. I made copies and am sending them to my loved ones and friends. As a new vegetarian, however, I'm finding it difficult to omit all dairy. I can easily cut out drinking milk, eating yogurt and ice cream..but I'm having a problem omitting cheese and avoiding hidden dairy in products with multiple ingredient listings. Rose , " cheryll <naturalist_44240> " <naturalist_44240> wrote: > More interesting reading on Milk/dairy, for those who wish to > continue to drink it: > > http://www.mercola.com/article/Diet/milk/no_milk.htm > > Rennet, or rennin, makes no difference, cheese is nothing more than a > concentrated source of the antibiotics and hormones mentioned in this > article. > > I say that cow's milk was intended for nursing infant cows, not for > daily human consumption. Each species of mammal on earth makes the > type of milk for their own young. I do not care to drink bodily > fluids from an animal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 6, 2003 Report Share Posted February 6, 2003 I agree... personally, the consumption of dairy is no different than the consumption of meat to me; while we have the ability to do it, it's not necessary, and the industry relies on convincing us constantly thatit is beneficial to do so, as they make the most profits from us doing it. I will go on record saying that an ounce of milk seems to be a great cure for heartburn (at least for me) but thats about it. Thats just my beliefs, though. -k- --- " cheryll <naturalist_44240 " <naturalist_44240 wrote: > More interesting reading on Milk/dairy, for those > who wish to > continue to drink it: > > http://www.mercola.com/article/Diet/milk/no_milk.htm > > Rennet, or rennin, makes no difference, cheese is > nothing more than a > concentrated source of the antibiotics and hormones > mentioned in this > article. > > I say that cow's milk was intended for nursing > infant cows, not for > daily human consumption. Each species of mammal on > earth makes the > type of milk for their own young. I do not care to > drink bodily > fluids from an animal. > > ===== Where is this beauty? I search and search and then find, We are the lotus. Om Mani Padme Hum Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 6, 2003 Report Share Posted February 6, 2003 It gets easy if you make it a game; make it fun. Do it one step at a time, at your own pace, and don't let other people what you can and can't eat, but hear them out; even people who are eating red meat. If your beliefs are sound they will become stronger; if they aren't they willcrumble, or you will be forced to learn more. For cheese, the only thing thats hard for me is pizza.. I've moved to the point where i will usually only eat white pizza; and i lok for soy cheeses in the market. I live in a small town though, and it's hard to find these things. So its a game; and my circle of friends, we share.. every time one cool store opens up, with one good item, we share the info. -k- --- " Rose <chopin43 " <chopin43 wrote: > thanks for the link, Cheryll. > > I made copies and am sending them to my loved ones > and friends. > > As a new vegetarian, however, I'm finding it > difficult to omit all > dairy. I can easily cut out drinking milk, eating > yogurt and ice > cream..but I'm having a problem omitting cheese and > avoiding hidden > dairy in products with multiple ingredient listings. > > Rose > > , " cheryll > <naturalist_44240> " <naturalist_44240> > wrote: > > More interesting reading on Milk/dairy, for those > who wish to > > continue to drink it: > > > > > http://www.mercola.com/article/Diet/milk/no_milk.htm > > > > Rennet, or rennin, makes no difference, cheese is > nothing more than > a > > concentrated source of the antibiotics and > hormones mentioned in > this > > article. > > > > I say that cow's milk was intended for nursing > infant cows, not for > > daily human consumption. Each species of mammal > on earth makes the > > type of milk for their own young. I do not care > to drink bodily > > fluids from an animal. > > ===== Where is this beauty? I search and search and then find, We are the lotus. Om Mani Padme Hum Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 6, 2003 Report Share Posted February 6, 2003 Speaking " as a vegan, " you support the standards and requirements of your chosen diet. If it works for you, I'm happy for you, except when you have heartburn. Those of us who are " not vegan " do not draw the same distinctions you do! Can we just leave it at that? DaveO Mr.Graves [sleepingtao] I agree... personally, the consumption of dairy is no different than the consumption of meat to me; while we have the ability to do it, it's not necessary, and the industry relies on convincing us constantly thatit is beneficial to do so, as they make the most profits from us doing it. I will go on record saying that an ounce of milk seems to be a great cure for heartburn (at least for me) but thats about it. Thats just my beliefs, though. -k- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 6, 2003 Report Share Posted February 6, 2003 For about 3 months, I made my usual Friday night pizza using soy cheese. I labored to collect the varieties of taste I liked and then grated them to freeze, so that pizza making would not be such a giant chore. I found that the soy cheeses available around 1998 did not cook well in the oven. I could not duplicate the blended cheese tastes I had grown to love, and there seemed to be way too much residual oil. I'd be interested to hear of other more recent cooking experiences with pizza and soy cheese. DaveO ps. I have a vegan friend who makes a killer pizza without cheese. I've asked several times for the recipe and she always says, " Sorry, can't do that. Each one's an original. " Mr.Graves [sleepingtao] ....[as a vegan] For cheese, the only thing thats hard for me is pizza... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 6, 2003 Report Share Posted February 6, 2003 i dont think i made any judgement on others- but i feel thats its not fair to me to not make my opinion known, if done reasonbly- i do believe that cheese is no different from eating meat, not as an actual meat product, but for the reasons why people choose to abstain from eating meat. I dont think ivejudged anyone, or said anything harsh, aside form that it was just my opinion. Last year, at this time, i was probably swimming in bathtub filed with melted chedder cheese and calling myself a nacho, but now, i just moved to a different place than that. I remember when i was younger, i was the only vegetarian i knew at school- i got called a fag and and an idiot for it, constantly. There wasnt anyone who said, hey, i am too, and in my opinion, its ok. So now, if someone out there is a vegan, or considering it, thats what im saying... i am too, and in my opinion, its ok to not want cheese. Don't get upset or defensive if you still eat it.. like i said, i picked up soy cheese last week, was delighted then found out it had a milk derivitive spelled wrong on it.. it happens, no worries. p.s. my friends and i are paning to make a low budget movie combining funny skits, interviews with average american people about the structure of the government and the influence of large corporations, and a scathing criticism of the agribusiness and oilbusiness sectors, which will include such various things as: -me applying for every fast food job on the road trip from here to NYC -dressing up in pink and soft yellow pastels with 80's tennis shorts and sweaters tiewd around our necks and pretending to play tennis on a sidewalk in wall street and calling ourselves 'chet' and 'harper' -me wearing a giant yellow chicken suit with a bright red anarchy symbol, sitting on a newsbox holding a sign saying 'who's next' (where the s is a dollar sign) surrounded by motionless prone men in business suits lying on the ground covered in spattered eggs -us visiting the Haliburton headquartes in rochester, and asking if we can go kill poor non white people to help build oil pipelines for them. etc etc interspersed with facts and figures about the state of corporate facism. we think it will be quite interesting, and fun to make. anyone want to invest? -k- --- daveo <daveo wrote: > > Speaking " as a vegan, " you support the standards and > requirements of your > chosen diet. If it works for you, I'm happy for > you, except when you have > heartburn. > > Those of us who are " not vegan " do not draw the same > distinctions you do! > Can we just leave it at that? > > DaveO > > > > > Mr.Graves [sleepingtao] > > I agree... personally, the consumption of dairy is > no > different than the consumption of meat to me; while > we > have the ability to do it, it's not necessary, and > the > industry relies on convincing us constantly thatit > is beneficial to do so, > as they make the most profits from us doing it. I > will go on record saying > that an ounce of milk seems to be a great cure for > heartburn (at least for > me) but thats about it. Thats just my beliefs, > though. > > -k- > > > > ===== Where is this beauty? I search and search and then find, We are the lotus. Om Mani Padme Hum Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 6, 2003 Report Share Posted February 6, 2003 Well, if this is any help, I absolutely love " Amy's frozen Soy cheese " pizza. the cheese melts pretty good. it does contain milk protein, but it is organic, and believe me I have always been a cheesehead. i'm originally from Green Bay, Wisconsin, after all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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