Guest guest Posted February 4, 2003 Report Share Posted February 4, 2003 It depends, really on your region. I dont live in the US, so I cant say with all accuracy. The part about starving the chickens is called 'forced molting' and it happens when the chickens dont produce enough or slow down production. Its a survival mechanism, to create extra eggs so that a greater amount of babies are produced in the hopes of one or two surviving the situation. From what ive heard, at least. There are sooooo many reasons to be vegan; but ethics and compassion are some of the best. Not just for animals; the human suffering affected by the dairy and such industries are just as great as for eating meat... but people come to the place they are over time, not suddenly. -k- --- " dave <dave4sale " <dave4sale wrote: > obviously, or maybe not so obviously to some of you, > there are > ethical reasons to go vegan: For instance, chickens > and cows used for > eggs or milk are often crammed into tiny spaces. > The chickens might > even get so upset that they will peck themselves or > their neighbors. > This leads lots of farmers to de-beak chickens which > is very painful > and might even make it difficult or impossible to > eat at all. > Another problem is that cows often get infected > udders from having a > machine suck milk out of them all day. this is > probably partially a > result of using growth hormones to produce more milk > than the cow > could naturally. Not only is it painful to them, it > results in lots > of puss cells going into the milk. A third problem > is that some > farmers starve their chickens in order to make them > lay more eggs > (don't ask me why this happens, some sort of > evolutionary mechanism i > suppose). > > I am trying to avoid milk / dairy but i > occassionally buy organic > dairy or egg products because they stick them in a > lot of vegetarian > food. I have assumed that the small organic farms > tend to be " free > range " and generally treat their animals better. my > question to the > group is, is this a valid assumption? > > ===== Where is this beauty? I search and search and then find, We are the lotus. Om Mani Padme Hum Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 4, 2003 Report Share Posted February 4, 2003 I assume that. I buy only organic dairy. My eggs come from a friend that runs an organic meat and egg farm. She's a member of my homeschool group and all her chickens (for meat and eggs) run free. I buy chicken for my husband which he eats about twice a month. I purchase these birds from her too. She buys them as chicks and sets them to pasture. When they mature, they're butchered, plucked and placed in my freezer ***SORRY FOR THE HORRIBLE DESCRIPTION: I " M NOT HAPPY WITH IT BUT I KNOW IT " S CRUELTY FREE AND HUBBY LIKES HIS MEAT*** My daughter drinks goat milk and I get that locally too and know that the goats roam free. Warmly, Allison --- " dave <dave4sale " <dave4sale wrote: > obviously, or maybe not so obviously to some of you, > there are > ethical reasons to go vegan: For instance, chickens > and cows used for > eggs or milk are often crammed into tiny spaces. > The chickens might > even get so upset that they will peck themselves or > their neighbors. > This leads lots of farmers to de-beak chickens which > is very painful > and might even make it difficult or impossible to > eat at all. > Another problem is that cows often get infected > udders from having a > machine suck milk out of them all day. this is > probably partially a > result of using growth hormones to produce more milk > than the cow > could naturally. Not only is it painful to them, it > results in lots > of puss cells going into the milk. A third problem > is that some > farmers starve their chickens in order to make them > lay more eggs > (don't ask me why this happens, some sort of > evolutionary mechanism i > suppose). > > I am trying to avoid milk / dairy but i > occassionally buy organic > dairy or egg products because they stick them in a > lot of vegetarian > food. I have assumed that the small organic farms > tend to be " free > range " and generally treat their animals better. my > question to the > group is, is this a valid assumption? > > Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 4, 2003 Report Share Posted February 4, 2003 I myself have cut so much dairy and eggs out of my diet. When I buy milk and eggs I buy organic and free range from local farmers here in Washington. jasmin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 5, 2003 Report Share Posted February 5, 2003 Hey Allison, we are homeschooling too! Power to the vegetarian homeschoolers! LOL -Laura - Allison Nations Tuesday, February 04, 2003 5:04 PM Re: Ethical reasons to go vegan I assume that. I buy only organic dairy. My eggs come from a friend that runs an organic meat and egg farm. She's a member of my homeschool group and all her chickens (for meat and eggs) run free. I buy chicken for my husband which he eats about twice a month. I purchase these birds from her too. She buys them as chicks and sets them to pasture. When they mature, they're butchered, plucked and placed in my freezer ***SORRY FOR THE HORRIBLE DESCRIPTION: I " M NOT HAPPY WITH IT BUT I KNOW IT " S CRUELTY FREE AND HUBBY LIKES HIS MEAT*** My daughter drinks goat milk and I get that locally too and know that the goats roam free. Warmly, Allison --- " dave <dave4sale " <dave4sale wrote: > obviously, or maybe not so obviously to some of you, > there are > ethical reasons to go vegan: For instance, chickens > and cows used for > eggs or milk are often crammed into tiny spaces. > The chickens might > even get so upset that they will peck themselves or > their neighbors. > This leads lots of farmers to de-beak chickens which > is very painful > and might even make it difficult or impossible to > eat at all. > Another problem is that cows often get infected > udders from having a > machine suck milk out of them all day. this is > probably partially a > result of using growth hormones to produce more milk > than the cow > could naturally. Not only is it painful to them, it > results in lots > of puss cells going into the milk. A third problem > is that some > farmers starve their chickens in order to make them > lay more eggs > (don't ask me why this happens, some sort of > evolutionary mechanism i > suppose). > > I am trying to avoid milk / dairy but i > occassionally buy organic > dairy or egg products because they stick them in a > lot of vegetarian > food. I have assumed that the small organic farms > tend to be " free > range " and generally treat their animals better. my > question to the > group is, is this a valid assumption? > > Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 5, 2003 Report Share Posted February 5, 2003 Right on!! Warmly, Allison --- Laura Letizia <lletizia wrote: > Hey Allison, we are homeschooling too! Power to the > vegetarian homeschoolers! LOL > > -Laura > - > Allison Nations > > Tuesday, February 04, 2003 5:04 PM > Re: Ethical reasons > to go vegan > > > I assume that. I buy only organic dairy. My eggs > come from a friend that runs an organic meat and > egg > farm. She's a member of my homeschool group and > all > her chickens (for meat and eggs) run free. I buy > chicken for my husband which he eats about twice a > month. I purchase these birds from her too. She > buys > them as chicks and sets them to pasture. When > they > mature, they're butchered, plucked and placed in > my > freezer ***SORRY FOR THE HORRIBLE DESCRIPTION: I " M > NOT > HAPPY WITH IT BUT I KNOW IT " S CRUELTY FREE AND > HUBBY > LIKES HIS MEAT*** My daughter drinks goat milk > and I > get that locally too and know that the goats roam > free. > Warmly, > Allison > > --- " dave <dave4sale " > <dave4sale > wrote: > > obviously, or maybe not so obviously to some of > you, > > there are > > ethical reasons to go vegan: For instance, > chickens > > and cows used for > > eggs or milk are often crammed into tiny spaces. > > > The chickens might > > even get so upset that they will peck themselves > or > > their neighbors. > > This leads lots of farmers to de-beak chickens > which > > is very painful > > and might even make it difficult or impossible > to > > eat at all. > > Another problem is that cows often get infected > > udders from having a > > machine suck milk out of them all day. this is > > probably partially a > > result of using growth hormones to produce more > milk > > than the cow > > could naturally. Not only is it painful to > them, it > > results in lots > > of puss cells going into the milk. A third > problem > > is that some > > farmers starve their chickens in order to make > them > > lay more eggs > > (don't ask me why this happens, some sort of > > evolutionary mechanism i > > suppose). > > > > I am trying to avoid milk / dairy but i > > occassionally buy organic > > dairy or egg products because they stick them in > a > > lot of vegetarian > > food. I have assumed that the small organic > farms > > tend to be " free > > range " and generally treat their animals better. > my > > question to the > > group is, is this a valid assumption? > > > > > > > > > Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up > now. > http://mailplus. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 5, 2003 Report Share Posted February 5, 2003 On Wed, 05 Feb 2003 00:43:22 -0000, you wrote: >obviously, or maybe not so obviously to some of you, there are >ethical reasons to go vegan: For instance, chickens and cows used for >eggs or milk are often crammed into tiny spaces. The chickens might >even get so upset that they will peck themselves or their neighbors. >This leads lots of farmers to de-beak chickens which is very painful >and might even make it difficult or impossible to eat at all. Some people - like us - are fortunate enough to be able to buy their chickens from a local 'egg man' who has about two dozen chickens - I know how those chickens live, I've seen their living quarters. >Another problem is that cows often get infected udders from having a >machine suck milk out of them all day. I don't know where you get this idea, cows are milked twice a day: morning and evening. They spend most of the rest of their time grazing in summer, eating silage and hay in winter. Pat <snip> >I am trying to avoid milk / dairy but i occassionally buy organic >dairy or egg products because they stick them in a lot of vegetarian >food. I have assumed that the small organic farms tend to be " free >range " and generally treat their animals better. my question to the >group is, is this a valid assumption? > Yes, I think it's valid. Especially if you know the farmer and the conditions under which he keeps his animals. I'm not so sure how valid it is if you merely see the label 'organic' on something. Pat -- Pat Meadows CLICK DAILY TO FEED THE HUNGRY United States: http://www.stopthehunger.com/ International: http://www.thehungersite.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 5, 2003 Report Share Posted February 5, 2003 > I don't know where you get this idea, cows are > milked twice > a day: morning and evening. They spend most of the > rest of > their time grazing in summer, eating silage and hay > in > winter. Just thought id add: At least half of the 10 million cows kept for milk in the United States live on factory farms in conditions that cause tremendous suffering to the animals. They do not spend hours grazing in fields but live crowded into concrete-floored milking pens or barns, where they are milked two or three times a day by machines. Milking machines often cause cuts and injuries that would not occur were a person to do the milking. These injuries encourage the development of mastitis, a painful bacterial infection. More than 20 different types of bacteria cause the infection, which is easily spread from one cow to another and which, if left unchecked, can cause death. ===== Where is this beauty? I search and search and then find, We are the lotus. Om Mani Padme Hum Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 5, 2003 Report Share Posted February 5, 2003 This happens at factory farms.. in factory farms cows are hooked up to large machines. http://www.factoryfarming.com/dairy.htm > > >Another problem is that cows often get infected udders from having a > >machine suck milk out of them all day. > > I don't know where you get this idea, cows are milked twice > a day: morning and evening. They spend most of the rest of > their time grazing in summer, eating silage and hay in > winter. > > Pat > > <snip> > > >I am trying to avoid milk / dairy but i occassionally buy organic > >dairy or egg products because they stick them in a lot of vegetarian > >food. I have assumed that the small organic farms tend to be " free > >range " and generally treat their animals better. my question to the > >group is, is this a valid assumption? > > > > Yes, I think it's valid. Especially if you know the farmer > and the conditions under which he keeps his animals. I'm > not so sure how valid it is if you merely see the label > 'organic' on something. > > Pat > -- Pat Meadows > CLICK DAILY TO FEED THE HUNGRY > United States: http://www.stopthehunger.com/ > International: http://www.thehungersite.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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