Guest guest Posted February 6, 2003 Report Share Posted February 6, 2003 This is a vegetarian group with wide doors for all interested in sharing an animal friendly diet. As new veggies join, they need us to be " clear with our labels " about which level of vegetarianism is being spoken about. Informed choices require clear information. You raised the issue of " loose labels, " and I agree with you. I think it's a fine idea that we ought to practice. You failed to make such distinctions, I did! Mr.Graves [sleepingtao] >>i dont think i made any judgement on others- but i feel thats its not fair to me to not make my opinion known, if done reasonbly-...<< And, I did not accuse you of doing so. If a fish eating vegetarian had told the group that eating fish was okay, I'd have said something much the same to them. As a vegan, your diet is more restricted than my non vegan diet, or am I wrong? DaveO --- daveo <daveo wrote: > > Speaking " as a vegan, " you support the standards and requirements of > your chosen diet. If it works for you, I'm happy for > you, except when you have heartburn. > > Those of us who are " not vegan " do not draw the same distinctions you > do! Can we just leave it at that? > > DaveO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 6, 2003 Report Share Posted February 6, 2003 --- daveo <daveo wrote: > > This is a vegetarian group with wide doors for all > interested in sharing an > animal friendly diet. As new veggies join, they > need us to be " clear with > our labels " about which level of vegetarianism is > being spoken about. > > Informed choices require clear information. > > You raised the issue of " loose labels, " and I agree > with you. I think it's > a fine idea that we ought to practice. You failed > to make such > distinctions, I did! > I dont think I failed to make any distinctions; once you realize the term vegetarian is actually misleading, that in fact we are all varient grades of vegan, its not hard to have a sense of solidarity, nor to allow others to be at their own place along that path. All of the goals of vegetarianism are actually the goals of veganism; vegetarianism is a step along the path; if you never move past that step, or never even get to that step, it's not a failure, simply your own way along the path. All of the ideals espoused by vegetarians, are vegan ideals first and foremost, and more accomplished by becoming vegan. Does this mean anyone who isnt vegan is unenlightened or stupid? of course not. Once again, I'm quite clear on every question I'm asked, and always willing to reiterate if i fail to communicate it well; as long as people are willing to go through my previous posts pertaining, rather than launch cheap attacks without doing the research. I dont know when this got to be about 'your' success in doing something and 'my' imagined failure. I thought we were supposed to be on the same team, and promote fair and equal discussion, even if we disagree. Now I feel like Im dealing with someone who has a bruised ego, and Im not even trying bruise it. Thats why ive tried my hardest to be humourous and light on the subject. Like I said before, I dont think the conversation is productive any longer, and Id like it to stop, but i wont be a facist about it. The only place for the term vegetarian is the definition of someone who gains more protein from plant sources than animal; all else is under the umbrella of the vegan ideal, if you look closely, which actually achieves those goals. As a vegan, my diet is not restricted, any more than a vegetarian's is to a meat eater. When you cut some things out of your life,l you encounter new things to replace them. It is a paradigm shift, and nothing more. If a meat eater accused you of having a limited diet, you would be insulted at the inference that you are lacking or losing out in some way by not having meat in your diet. Remember; we're all basically on the same team here. -k- > As a vegan, your diet is more restricted than my non > vegan diet, or am I > wrong? > > DaveO > ===== Where is this beauty? I search and search and then find, We are the lotus. Om Mani Padme Hum Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 6, 2003 Report Share Posted February 6, 2003 Do terms like " non-contention, non-action, non-intention, simplicity, wisdom, humility, and duality " have any real inner meaning to the sleepingTao? If they do, I'd be asking who the hell actually wrote the following response. Peace to you, DaveO Mr.Graves [sleepingtao] I dont think I failed to make any distinctions; once you realize the term vegetarian is actually misleading, that in fact we are all varient grades of vegan, its not hard to have a sense of solidarity, nor to allow others to be at their own place along that path. All of the goals of vegetarianism are actually the goals of veganism; vegetarianism is a step along the path; if you never move past that step, or never even get to that step, it's not a failure, simply your own way along the path. All of the ideals espoused by vegetarians, are vegan ideals first and foremost, and more accomplished by becoming vegan. Does this mean anyone who isnt vegan is unenlightened or stupid? of course not. Once again, I'm quite clear on every question I'm asked, and always willing to reiterate if i fail to communicate it well; as long as people are willing to go through my previous posts pertaining, rather than launch cheap attacks without doing the research. I dont know when this got to be about 'your' success in doing something and 'my' imagined failure. I thought we were supposed to be on the same team, and promote fair and equal discussion, even if we disagree. Now I feel like Im dealing with someone who has a bruised ego, and Im not even trying bruise it. Thats why ive tried my hardest to be humourous and light on the subject. Like I said before, I dont think the conversation is productive any longer, and Id like it to stop, but i wont be a facist about it. The only place for the term vegetarian is the definition of someone who gains more protein from plant sources than animal; all else is under the umbrella of the vegan ideal, if you look closely, which actually achieves those goals. As a vegan, my diet is not restricted, any more than a vegetarian's is to a meat eater. When you cut some things out of your life,l you encounter new things to replace them. It is a paradigm shift, and nothing more. If a meat eater accused you of having a limited diet, you would be insulted at the inference that you are lacking or losing out in some way by not having meat in your diet. Remember; we're all basically on the same team here. --- daveo <daveo wrote: > > This is a vegetarian group with wide doors for all > interested in sharing an animal friendly diet. As > new veggies join, they need us to be " clear with > our labels " about which level of vegetarianism is > being spoken about. > > Informed choices require clear information. > > You raised the issue of " loose labels, " and I agree > with you. I think it's > a fine idea that we ought to practice. You failed > to make such distinctions, I did! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 6, 2003 Report Share Posted February 6, 2003 I would love to educate you on what the meanings of those concepts are outside of your western interpretation, but I dont feel i am the one who should do so. If you think for one second, non contention means not being involved in practicing and defending ideals, or non action means not acting, you have no concept of the tao. Besides, I said before Im not interested in bruising anyones ego, or taking part in nursing anyones bruised ego... this seems to be quickly devolving into an exchange devoid of information, and relying soley on the proverbial cockshow.. I have no interest in egoplay, it's boring. If you wish to insult me, I can only offer my pity in return. -k- --- daveo <daveo wrote: > > Do terms like " non-contention, non-action, > non-intention, simplicity, > wisdom, humility, and duality " have any real inner > meaning to the > sleepingTao? If they do, I'd be asking who the hell > actually wrote the > following response. > > Peace to you, > > DaveO > > > > > Mr.Graves [sleepingtao] > > I dont think I failed to make any distinctions; once > you realize the term vegetarian is actually > misleading, that in fact we are all varient grades > of > vegan, its not hard to have a sense of solidarity, > nor > to allow others to be at their own place along that > path. > > All of the goals of vegetarianism are actually the > goals of veganism; vegetarianism is a step along the > path; if you never move past that step, or never > even > get to that step, it's not a failure, simply your > own > way along the path. All of the ideals espoused by > vegetarians, are vegan ideals first and foremost, > and > more accomplished by becoming vegan. Does this mean > anyone who isnt vegan is unenlightened or stupid? of > course not. > > Once again, I'm quite clear on every question I'm > asked, and always willing to reiterate if i fail to > communicate it well; as long as people are willing > to > go through my previous posts pertaining, rather than > launch cheap attacks without doing the research. > > I dont know when this got to be about 'your' success > in doing something and 'my' imagined failure. I > thought we were supposed to be on the same team, and > promote fair and equal discussion, even if we > disagree. Now I feel like Im dealing with someone > who > has a bruised ego, and Im not even trying bruise it. > Thats why ive tried my hardest to be humourous and > light on the subject. Like I said before, I dont > think > the conversation is productive any longer, and Id > like > it to stop, but i wont be a facist about it. > > The only place for the term vegetarian is the > definition of someone who gains more protein from > plant sources than animal; all else is under the > umbrella of the vegan ideal, if you look closely, > which actually achieves those goals. > > As a vegan, my diet is not restricted, any more than > > a vegetarian's is to a meat eater. When you cut some > > things out of your life,l you encounter new things > to replace them. It is a paradigm shift, and nothing > > more. If a meat eater accused you of having a > limited > diet, you would be insulted at the inference that > you > are lacking or losing out in some way by not having > meat in your diet. Remember; we're all basically on > the same team here. > > --- daveo <daveo wrote: > > > > This is a vegetarian group with wide doors for all > > interested in sharing an animal friendly diet. As > > > new veggies join, they need us to be " clear with > > our labels " about which level of vegetarianism is > > being spoken about. > > > > Informed choices require clear information. > > > > You raised the issue of " loose labels, " and I > agree > > with you. I think it's > > a fine idea that we ought to practice. You failed > > to make such distinctions, I did! > > > > > ===== Where is this beauty? I search and search and then find, We are the lotus. Om Mani Padme Hum Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 6, 2003 Report Share Posted February 6, 2003 No thanks, your behavior alone teaches me plenty. DaveO Mr.Graves [sleepingtao] I would love to educate you on what the meanings of those concepts are outside of your western interpretation, but I dont feel i am the one who should do so. If you think for one second, non contention means not being involved in practicing and defending ideals, or non action means not acting, you have no concept of the tao. Besides, I said before Im not interested in bruising anyones ego, or taking part in nursing anyones bruised ego... this seems to be quickly devolving into an exchange devoid of information, and relying soley on the proverbial cockshow.. I have no interest in egoplay, it's boring. If you wish to insult me, I can only offer my pity in return. -k- --- daveo <daveo wrote: > > Do terms like " non-contention, non-action, > non-intention, simplicity, wisdom, humility, and > duality " have any real inner meaning to the > sleepingTao? If they do, I'd be asking who the hell > actually wrote the following response. > > Peace to you, > > DaveO -----clipped----- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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