Vegans

[Guest guest]

I found a really good article on veganism, I was

looking for some evidence that whey can sometimes be

not even vegetarian (sad but true) and I came across

this; its bright and informative and I ike the way

they present the ideas:

 

'So, how far should a vegan go to avoid a food with

0.01% casein? If you are a vegan who likes to have

toast with honey now and then, you are still a vegan.

I hope that strict vegans will be tolerant and

accepting of their less disciplined vegetarian

cousins. There are varying degrees of vegetarianism

and veganism, but any reduction in the amount of

animal products that we consume benefits our health

and our environment. Read all package labels and

determine your own comfort level about the foods you

are eating.'

 

Thats just an excerpt, you can read the rest at:

 

 

http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/4170/25703

 

K

 

 

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[Guest guest]

If you are a vegan and you CHOOSE to consume an animal

product of any sort, you are not a vegan.

 

If you are a vegan and you accidentally consume

something containing animal produce, then you still

remain a vegan, as long as you are taking care to

avoid doing so again, and check and re-check

ingredients regularly.

 

It's all about choosing to support animal industries.

There are no shades of grey. If the same statement had

been made about a vegetarian who occasionally eats

sausages, would you still agree that s/he is still

vegetarian? I certainly would not.

 

Also, had I not read this post, I was about to leave

the group. The religion argument is one neither side

can win. If someone believes in faeries and magic, let

them, anyone with sense knows they don't exist, but

arguing with them serves only to annoy both parties.

Now apply that to religion and it's the same, except

the faeries are replaced by somebody missing 50% of

his DNA, and the magic is replaced by tales written

hundreds of years after the supposed events occurred,

and was used to suppress ignorant peasants and empower

the church (making them rich along the way) And what

about Dinosaurs? Under scrutiny, any religious

argument just doesn't hold up, and the standard

responses such as " God works in mysterious ways " or

" It's gods way of testing us " are just cop outs. Also

(rant rant) why are pictures of Jesus always of a

thirty something white man? He was born on the

continent of Africa, long before the creation of the

channel tunnel, so why is he not a of a north African

complexion?

Anyway, there you go.

 

James

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Thanks, James. Your post is certainly not confused by the meaning of the

veggie labels it uses.

 

I agree with you. Words have meaning " albeit imprecise, " and except for a

couple of " minor food slippages, " I could still call myself a vegan.

Instead, I call myself a L-O veggie. This way " being a vegan " is not

diluted by my careless hedging with various weasel words.

 

I'm not much for religious discussions, but you certainly touched a lot of

" hot buttons " in very few words.

 

DaveO

 

 

 

 

DJ Jam [djjamuk01]

 

If you are a vegan and you CHOOSE to consume an animal

product of any sort, you are not a vegan.

 

If you are a vegan and you accidentally consume

something containing animal produce, then you still

remain a vegan, as long as you are taking care to

avoid doing so again, and check and re-check

ingredients regularly.

 

It's all about choosing to support animal industries.

There are no shades of grey. If the same statement had

been made about a vegetarian who occasionally eats

sausages, would you still agree that s/he is still

vegetarian? I certainly would not.

 

Also, had I not read this post, I was about to leave

the group. The religion argument is one neither side

can win. If someone believes in faeries and magic, let

----clipped----

[Guest guest]

-

> I'm not much for religious discussions, but you certainly touched a lot of

> " hot buttons " in very few words.

 

I'll second that. Though I'm not of the Faerie Tradition, I am Wiccan.

So, in the interest of preserving peace on this list...

 

*zipz lipz*

 

:-)

 

Megan

[Guest guest]

thank you for posting this my dear. it was very informative.

 

Megan

[Guest guest]

Hi James ;=)

 

I gotta admit this is the sort of argument I avoid - mostly because I

don't believe in labels - but for other reasons too, if I am willing to

be honest. So if I do this badly, please forgive me - I'm just

inexperienced.

 

But you say that if one accidentally eats non-vegan products one is

still a vegan but if one does it on purpose one is still a vegan -

right? (I hope I got that right.) I understand that this rule of thumb

might work for those who are trying to be vegan - as I am right now, for

whatever reason after some years as an ovo-lacto vegetarian. But tell me

this: what difference does it make to the animals whether one does it on

purpose or does it accidentally? (One could ask, in another context,

whether if one accidentally took a human life or did it on purpose --

you get the point that the person is just as dead. The difference, as it

seems to me, is one of law, whether religious or state.)

 

Now please don't minsunderstand me. Please ;=) I'm not saying it doesn't

matter. What I'm suggesting, tentatively, is that every life - human or

non-human animal - saved is, well, a life saved. And I would have

thought that was the point of the *moral* point/defintion re

veganism/vegetarianism. If the point is simply linguistic, of course,

that is a different matter ;=)

 

Now I have been happy to say that if one eats meat (incl fish) one is

not a vegetarian. And I have regrained from defining vegan because I

have until the last couple of months had eggs and dairy occasionally and

therefore I don't feel I qualify to speak on this topic. But I can feel

I have the right to speak on *definitions* regarding *intent*. To define

according to intent, rather than practice, is to buy into a *sin*-based

thingie. I am not putting that kind of thinking down, but I do think it

needs to be examined.

 

Me? I do the best I can. Others? I trust them to do the best they can.

Will I try to convert them to my way of thinking? Probably not. I can't

be sure my way is right. I only know it is right for me. As for

definitions of vegan and veggie, why should it matter to you if you are

doing what you know is right for you? I know that it is annoying to find

that others are not making the same 'sacrifices' and still taking credit

for being on the same wagon, but hey let them ride along. It may do them

good ;=) It doesn't take away from you, who are doing a superb job of

living a good life without huring other creatures. You don't need to

police the boundaries ;=)

 

And on dear I have just laid myself out as a sacrificial lamb, so to

speak, haven't I? (Sound of feet running quickly quickly quickly away

away away from the mike!)

 

best.

pat sant

--

SANTBROWN

townhounds/

http://www.angelfire.com/art/pendragon/

----------

* " Until he extends the circle of compassion to all living things, man

will not himself find peace. " - Albert Schweitzer

 

* " The time will come when men such as I will look upon the murder of

animals as they now look upon the murder of men " - Leonardo da Vinci

 

* " The animals of the world exist for their own reasons. They were not

made for humans any more than black people were made for white, or women

created for men. " - Alice Walker

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[Guest guest]

Hi there,

 

'Fraid you did misunderstand that post. If you

accidentally eat something non vegan, that's ok, (you

just have to berate yourself mentally to admonish

yourself!), whereas if eaten with your full knowledge

and consent, then you aren't a vegan.

It's kinda like knocking someone over in a car. If you

meant to do it, it's bad. If it was a pure accident,

it's still bad, but you didn't mean to do it, so you

didn't make a conscious decision to inflict pain.

Clear as mud? Welcome to James Country!

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

As a footnote and of vital importance to this debate:

The definition for the sake of it doesn't matter.

However, the example one sets to non veg*ans is the

one that remains, for example, a honey eating " vegan "

(said through gritted teeth!) goes into a non veg*an

restaurant and explains the situation. " So do you eat

honey? " asks the waiter, " yes " beams the " vegan " and

thus a dish is prepared. Next week, a true vegan goes

to the restaurant, and asks " do you cater for vegans "

" oh yes " says our waiter, " we had a vegan here last

week, no problem! " " Great " thinks the vegan, loves the

meal, and invites more pure vegans to join him/her

next time. Those pure vegans have then consumed a non

suitable product because one person mis-used the term.

That's the important bit, and can be applied to other

situations, e.g. " I'm a vegetarian who wears leather " ,

then you know how the rest goes....

 

 

 

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