To be a vegan or not...

[Guest guest]

There are certainly reasonable arguments on both sides of the " to be a vegan

or not " issue. Actually, I hadn't thought about the " better than God "

reason. *grin*

 

DaveO

 

 

 

--- Jack Styger <selenasking wrote:

> Why would any one want to be a vegan? I know you

> can but that's not a reason. Sometimes it seems that

> people are trying to be better than God. I don't

> think it will work. Jack S

[Guest guest]

> --- Jack Styger <selenasking wrote:

> > Why would any one want to be a vegan? I know you

> > can but that's not a reason. Sometimes it seems that

> > people are trying to be better than God. I don't

> > think it will work. Jack S

 

The same could be said as to why would anyone want to be a vegetarian. I

know alot more vegetarians that are snobbish and look down on people than

I do vegans.

 

Though really (just like vegetarianism) there are several reasons two of

which I will briefly cover:

 

HEALTH: Just like vegetarianism, veganism can be benificial for health

reasons. A vegan diet doesn't contain any cholesterol and is significantly

lower in saturated fat. There is less chance of food poisoning (between 80

and 98% less likely to get it than the average person depending on which

study you read), lower rates of bowel cancer, heart disease etc There alot

of people who are intolerant to lactose and don't know it until they give

it up for awhile, I personally found that my asthma improved when I

stopped eating dairy ( & wound up in hospital when a supposed friend

decided to hide sour cream in a meal that was alledgedly vegan)

 

ANIMAL ETHICS: Every year millions of chickens are hatched to replace the

layers of the egg industry. Half of these birds are male and are gassed or

crushed to death. When Hens get too old to lay eggs and cows are too old

to produce milk they are killed to be low grade meat products. Many of the

male calves born end up as veal. The dairy industry exisits on the basis

of almost constantly keeping cows pregnant so they will lactate. Diseases

such as mastitis are also common. To say that the egg & dairy industries

do not cause animal suffering is a joke.

 

I could go on but I do suggest the publication " Why Vegan? " It has heaps

of vegan information it is available online

at: http://www.veganoutreach.org/whyvegan/

 

Regards to the fish,

LisA

ICQ#: 15562604

*** www.gu.uwa.edu.au/clubs/vegies ***

 

" I think---therefore I'm single... "

-Lizz Winstead

[Guest guest]

You make interesting points that apply " somewhat equally " to both

vegetarians and vegans. Is it possible to specify " vegan only " benefits

that are " beyond those already achievable " as a vegetarian?

 

DaveO

 

 

 

 

Lisa Green [moonbug]

 

Though really (just like vegetarianism) there are several reasons two of

which I will briefly cover:

 

HEALTH: Just like vegetarianism, veganism can be benificial for health

reasons. A vegan diet doesn't contain any cholesterol and is significantly

lower in saturated fat. There is less chance of food poisoning (between 80

and 98% less likely to get it than the average person depending on which

study you read), lower rates of bowel cancer, heart disease etc There alot

of people who are intolerant to lactose and don't know it until they give it

up for awhile, I personally found that my asthma improved when I stopped

eating dairy ( & wound up in hospital when a supposed friend decided to hide

sour cream in a meal that was alledgedly vegan)

[Guest guest]

From goveg.com:

 

Dairy products are considered a dietary staple by

many, yet they are neither a necessary nor a desirable

part of a healthy human diet. For those who wish to

avoid meat for ethical and/or health reasons, dairy

products are a poor substitute.

 

Whole cow's milk is suited to the nutritional needs of

calves who, unlike human babies, double their weight

in 47 days (as opposed to 180 for humans), grow four

healthy stomachs, and weigh 300 pounds within a year.

Cow's milk contains about three times as much protein

as human milk and almost 50 percent more fat. Despite

the clever advertising of the dairy industry, it is

not " natural " for humans to drink cow's milk. No other

species drinks milk beyond infancy, and no other

species drinks the milk of another species (except

domestic cats and dogs, who are taught the habit).

After four years of age, most people develop lactose

intolerance, the inability to digest the carbohydrate

lactose (found in milk), because they no longer

synthesize the digestive enzyme lactase. Consuming

dairy products after early childhood can cause

diarrhea, gas, and cramps.(1)

 

Liquid Meat

 

In addition to being an unnatural food for humans,

cow's milk, like other dairy products, is unhealthful.

John A. McDougall, M.D., calls dairy foods " liquid

meat " because their nutritional contents are so

similar. Rich in fat and cholesterol, dairy products,

including cheese, milk, butter, cream, yogurt, and

whey (found in many margarines and commercial baked

goods), contribute to the development of heart

disease, certain cancers, and stroke–our nation's

three deadliest killers–and even osteoporosis, as

studies have repeatedly shown.

 

Osteoporosis is bone loss due to calcium resorption,

which, contrary to the protestations of the dairy

industry, is not halted or prevented by an increase in

the intake of calcium so much as by a drop in protein

consumption. High-protein foods, such as meat, eggs,

and dairy products, leach calcium from the body as

excess protein is processed by the liver and passed

through the kidneys, making the kidneys work harder

and causing the loss of minerals such as calcium.(2)

Societies with little or no consumption of dairy foods

and animal proteins show low incidences of

osteoporosis. Furthermore, Dr. McDougall notes,

" Calcium deficiency caused by an insufficient amount

of calcium in the diet is not known to occur in

humans. " (3)

 

Other illnesses are more prevalent among those who

consume significant amounts of dairy products than

among vegans. Ninety percent of asthma patients who

were put on a completely vegetarian diet (without

meat, eggs, or dairy products) experienced great

improvements in the frequency and severity of their

attacks.(4) Dairy products are also the leading cause

of food allergies and have been implicated in

congestive heart failure, neonatal tetany, tonsil

enlargement, ulcerative colitis, Hodgkin's disease,

and respiratory, skin, gastrointestinal, and

behavioral problems.(5)

 

It's a Cow's Life

 

At least half of the 10 million cows kept for milk in

the United States live on factory farms, in conditions

that cause tremendous suffering to the animals. They

do not spend hours grazing in fields but live crowded

into concrete-floored milking pens or barns, where

they are milked two or three times a day by machines.

 

Milking machines often cause cuts and injuries that

would not occur were a person doing the milking. These

injuries abet the development of mastitis, a bacterial

infection common to the dairy industry. In a handbook

for dairy farmers, a photo caption warns that

" Increasing severity of mastitis results in

progressive deterioration of milk quality, " causing

losses of at least half a billion dollars per year.(6)

More than 20 different types of bacteria cause the

infection, which is easily spread from one cow to

another and which, if left unchecked, can cause death.

 

 

In some cases, milking machines give cows repeated

electrical shocks, causing them considerable

discomfort, fear, and impairment of their immune

systems, sometimes leading to death. A single farm can

lose several hundred cows to uncontrolled electric

shocking.(7) However, milking machines are used

anyway, because they save labor, enabling a single

farm worker to milk 86 cows in two hours.(8)

 

The number of cows raised for milk dropped from almost

22 million in 1950 to 10.8 million in 1980, yet the

amount of milk produced rose from 116 billion pounds

to 128 billion.(9) As a result, the average cow of the

1980s produced about twice as much milk as her

counterpart of the 1950s. To produce 24 quarts of milk

per day, cows are fed more than 81 pounds of food

(including grain, hay, and silage--corn, sorghum,

grass, and legumes) plus 45 gallons of water every

day.(10) In 1983 the U.S. government stored 17 billion

pounds of surplus " milk equivalent " (milk, cheese, and

butter), at a cost to taxpayers of $2.5 billion for

1983.(11) Efforts to prevent farms from going under

have cost the U.S. government more than a billion

dollars a year in price support programs.(12)

 

Cows of the 1990s live only about four to five years,

as opposed to the life expectancy of 20-25 years

enjoyed by cows of an earlier era. To keep the animals

at high levels of productivity, dairy farmers keep

them pregnant constantly through the use of artificial

insemination. Farmers also use an array of drugs,

including bovine growth hormone (BGH); prostaglandin,

which is used to bring a cow into heat whenever the

farmer wants to have her inseminated; antibiotics; and

even tranquilizers, to influence the productivity and

behavior of the cows.

 

About 15% of dairy cows are routinely injected with

BGH(13), which increases milk production by up to 20

percent, causing cows' udders to become so heavy and

swollen that they can drag along the ground. A full

udder can weigh 60 pounds and hold 50 pounds of milk.

(14) The cows' accidental stepping on their udders

causes the teats to become injured and infected,

resulting in mastitis. Fortunately, responding to

pressure by groups representing animal rights,

consumer protection, small farms, and environmental

interests, five of the largest supermarket companies

in the United States have asked their suppliers not to

ship them milk from cows given the drug.(15) BGH

aggravates lameness, because it causes cows to become

so heavy. Cement flooring and the high-energy diet

also contribute to the problems.

 

What Happens to the Calf?

 

Perhaps the greatest pain suffered by cows of the

dairy industry is the repeated loss of their young.

Female offspring may join the ranks of the milk

producers, but the males are generally taken from

their mothers within 24 hours of birth, before they

have drunk any of their mothers' milk, and sold at

auction either for the notorious veal industry or to

beef producers. If the calf is killed when young, his

fourth stomach is also used in cheese-making; it

contains rennin, an enzyme used to curdle (or

coagulate) milk to turn it into cheese. Rennet, the

membrane of which rennin is an extract, can also be

used in this process. It is possible to make

rennetless cheese (available at health food stores),

but the close connection between the dairy, veal, and

leather industries makes it cheaper for cheese

producers to use calf parts than a vegetable-derived

enzyme.

 

Within 60 days the cow will be impregnated again. " If

a cow hasn't dried up just before calving, farmers

often give her a few days' rest. Some feel that a

month or so rest period is valuable but others see

that as a waste of time. " (16) For about seven months

of her next nine-month pregnancy, she will continue to

be milked for the fluid meant for her older calf. A

typical factory-farmed dairy cow will give birth three

or four times in her short life. When her milk

production wanes, she is sent to slaughter, most

likely to be ground up into fast food burgers.(17)

 

References

 

1. McDougall, John A., M.D., and Mary A. McDougall,

The McDougall Plan, New Century Publishers, Inc., pp.

49-51.

 

2. McDougall, op.cit., p. 100. • McDougall, op.cit.,

p. 52.

 

3. Robbins, John, Diet for a New America, Stillpoint

Publishing, 1987, p. 300.

 

4. McDougall, op.cit., pp. 49-50.

 

5. USDA Farmers Bulletin No. 2253, 1973.

 

6. Anderson, Jack, and Dale Van Atta, " Stray Voltage

Killing U.S. Dairy Cows, " The Washington Post, Aug. 9,

1989.• USDA, " People on the Farm: Dairying, " 1981,

p.1.• Ibid, p.4.

 

7. " Dairy Cow Is Nature's Milk Factory, " Bristol

Herald Courier, July 21, 1983.

 

8. Time, Nov. 21, 1983.

 

9. " Dairyman's Pail Runneth Over, " Insight, Dec. 7,

1987.

 

 

 

10. " Business Bulletin, " The Wall Street Journal,

March 16, 1995, p. A1.

 

11. " Dairy Cow Is Nature's Milk Factory, " op.cit.

 

12. Day, Kathleen, " Dairy, Consumer Groups Udderly at

Odds on Cow Hormone, " The Washington Post, May 2,

1995, p. D1.

 

13. Dairying, op.cit., p. 3.

 

14. Mason, Jim, " And a Cow Jumped Over the Moon, "

Animals' Voice, Feb. 1989, p. 46.

 

 

--

 

 

 

 

=====

 

Where is this beauty?

 

I search and search and then find,

 

We are the lotus.

 

 

 

Om Mani Padme Hum

 

 

 

 

Send Flowers for Valentine's Day

 

[Guest guest]

Vegans live on average 6 years longer than vegetarians

and have less rates of (the already lower rates)

obesity than vegetarians.

 

Countries that drink less milk (most asian countries,

due to lactose intolerance) actualyl have lower rates

of osteoperosis.

 

'dairy products, and eggs are completely devoid of

fiber and complex carbohydrates, the nutrients that

we’re supposed to be consuming more of, and are laden

with saturated fat and cholesterol, which make us fat

and lethargic in the short term and lead to clogged

arteries and heart attacks in the long term.'

 

-why vegetarian (not why vegan) from peta.

 

also from peta:

 

No species naturally drinks milk beyond infancy, and

no species would naturally drink the milk of a

different species. Cow’s milk is designed for baby

cows, who have four stomachs, double their weight in

47 days, and weigh 800 pounds within a year.

 

For humans, milk has been linked to heart disease,

some types of cancer, diabetes, and even osteoporosis,

the very disease that the dairy industry claims it is

supposed to prevent! The high animal-protein content

of milk actually causes calcium to be leached from the

body. Industrialized Western nations, which are the

biggest consumers of milk, have the highest rates of

osteoporosis, while regions of the world where dairy

products are practically unheard of, such as China and

Japan, are virtually osteoporosis-free.

 

Milk is also loaded with fat and cholesterol and

contains an ever-increasing variety of pesticides and

antibiotics that are fed to cows. You can get all the

calcium you need from the plant world—tofu, broccoli,

figs, beans, grain, and calcium-fortified orange juice

are all good sources.

 

Serving up just one egg for breakfast each morning can

raise your cholesterol level by as much as 10 points!

The human body makes all the cholesterol it needs, and

when extra cholesterol is eaten, only 100 mg per day

can be eliminated—the rest begins clogging the

arteries. Women who eat eggs daily triple their risk

of breast cancer. Eggs are a primary source of

salmonella, which sickens millions and causes up to

3,800 food-related deaths in the U.S. each year.

 

 

=====

 

Where is this beauty?

 

I search and search and then find,

 

We are the lotus.

 

 

 

Om Mani Padme Hum

 

 

 

 

Send Flowers for Valentine's Day

 

[Guest guest]

Hoping to avoid a renewed flame session here, I must never the less ask

several questions about this posting.

 

1. What's the purpose of these 1,500 words in a dialogue about being vegan

or not? This text was lifted directly from the webpage at

http://www.goveg.com/r-fact8.html and I see absolutely no member

contribution to it at all, not even a clickable link.

 

2. What's the reason for posting an article that relentlessly slams people

who as a part of their " normal veggie diet " choose to eat eggs and drink

milk? It looks to me like it's " more anti veggie than pro vegan. "

 

DaveO

 

 

 

 

Mr.Graves [sleepingtao]

 

>From goveg.com:

 

Dairy products are considered a dietary staple by

many, yet they are neither a necessary nor a desirable

part of a healthy human diet. For those who wish to

avoid meat for ethical and/or health reasons, dairy

products are a poor substitute.

 

Whole cow's milk is suited to the nutritional needs of

calves who, unlike human babies, double their weight

in 47 days (as opposed to 180 for humans), grow four

healthy stomachs, and weigh 300 pounds within a year.

-----clipped-----

[Guest guest]

I've been a vegan for about five years, and none of the stuff I'm reading

here is tempting me in the slightest to reconsider returning to that diet.

 

This hyperbole along with your last post from goveg.com is actually

disgusting to me as a L-O veggie.

 

It's just a thought, but maybe you could validate, encourage, and support

your vegan diet with some positive examples now.

 

DaveO

 

 

 

 

Mr.Graves [sleepingtao]

 

Vegans live on average 6 years longer than vegetarians

and have less rates of (the already lower rates)

obesity than vegetarians.

 

Countries that drink less milk (most asian countries,

due to lactose intolerance) actualyl have lower rates

of osteoperosis.

 

'dairy products, and eggs are completely devoid of

fiber and complex carbohydrates, the nutrients that

we're supposed to be consuming more of, and are laden

with saturated fat and cholesterol, which make us fat

-----clipped-----

[Guest guest]

-

 

>

> Vegans live on average 6 years longer than vegetarians

> and have less rates of (the already lower rates)

> obesity than vegetarians.

 

i'll second that. since becoming dietary vegan (mainly cutting out dairy &

eggs), I dropped as much as eight pounds. It varies between 137 & 140,

depending on when exactly I weigh myself. & that's without exercising.

 

Megan

[Guest guest]

Megan,

 

The " Okinawan Diet " is recognized as the healthiest diet because Okinawans

have the largest percentage of elderly reaching age 100 than any other

region on the planet, and sadly, they are neither veggie nor vegan.

 

Actually, " 6 years longer " is a nice spin for " any veggie diet, " yet

research suggests other factors beyond type and quality of diet.

 

One certainly does drop extra pounds when certain foods are avoided or

moderated, but the only " life extension methodology " that's actually been

reproduced and verified in controlled laboratory settings is " calorie

reduction " diets whether involving meat or otherwise. All veggies, not just

vegans, usually fit into this category, and even then that's not all of the

story.

 

DaveO

 

 

 

 

 

Megan Milligan [yasminduran]

 

-

> Vegans live on average 6 years longer than vegetarians

> and have less rates of (the already lower rates)

> obesity than vegetarians.

 

i'll second that. since becoming dietary vegan (mainly cutting out dairy &

eggs), I dropped as much as eight pounds. It varies between 137 & 140,

depending on when exactly I weigh myself. & that's without exercising.

 

Megan

[Guest guest]

On Wed, 19 Feb 2003, daveo wrote:

 

>

> You make interesting points that apply " somewhat equally " to both

> vegetarians and vegans. Is it possible to specify " vegan only " benefits

> that are " beyond those already achievable " as a vegetarian?

 

I wrote that post at 4:30am so sorry it wasn't very comprehensive or long.

Alot of other people have posted more indepth answers to your question

regarding the health aspect of veganism such as the rates of oseteoperosis

and high protien & dairy consumption. Also you are right that alot of the

things I mentioned apply to vegetarianism, but they apply more so to

veganism, for example the food posioning point (you are less likely to get

food poinsoning being a vegetarian but even less still by being a vegan).

I really do recommend ( & yes this is like the 3rd time I've plugged it now

) veganoutreach.org as they cover alot more information than I could

include in a simple email.

 

I should get around to replying to my email more often than twice a week I

think...

 

Regards to the fish,

LisA

ICQ#: 15562604

*** www.gu.uwa.edu.au/clubs/vegies ***

 

" There's nothing an economist can do that a geographer can't do better. "